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NT1440

macrumors Pentium
May 18, 2008
15,093
22,159
I think it would be ok if I had a dozen or so programs, but I can have 50-100 programs on my windows machine, maybe even more. It's just plain onerous to scroll thru 100+ programs, it makes zero sense. If they simply added the ability to create folders and put programs/tiles inside the folders I think they would calm a LOT of people down. In the old start menu you have the option of creating folders and organizing it the way you want.

I mean even Apple/iOS and google/Android have folders so you can organize your workspace and reduce the sheer amount of apps and programs you have on your screen.

They do have a "group" feature to the start screen that could be very nifty.

Here's the thing about 8, including the start screen, it can make a LOT of sense, but only after you've taken the time and care to set it up exactly for your workflow. I spent about 2 hours working through my routines and other use cases and it is perfectly usable now. I just don't think the majority of people think that you should have to spend that much energy just setting up your OS to make it simple.
 

MonkeySee....

macrumors 68040
Sep 24, 2010
3,858
437
UK
Metro UI is just spectacular! Clean, simple, elegant, hard-edged, no skeuomorph.

However, the average user is too conservative to switch. Just yet. But what Microsoft is trying to do is going to be a big hit: Windows 8 + Windows Phone 8 + Skydrive + Xbox + Office integration. And Metro all over the place!

Metro UI is crap. I haven't touched it in two weeks and work from the desktop.

I HATE the new start menu and all its features.
 

spinedoc77

macrumors G4
Jun 11, 2009
11,488
5,413
They do have a "group" feature to the start screen that could be very nifty.

Here's the thing about 8, including the start screen, it can make a LOT of sense, but only after you've taken the time and care to set it up exactly for your workflow. I spent about 2 hours working through my routines and other use cases and it is perfectly usable now. I just don't think the majority of people think that you should have to spend that much energy just setting up your OS to make it simple.

Hmm, can you elaborate how you set yours up? I just don't see ANY option to make a decent workflow, zero, but I'm hoping I'm missing some settings or options as I don't spend much time there. I know about the grouping, but while it helps a tiny bit it doesn't do much for having tons of programs you have to scroll through.

----------

I was reading an interesting article, but I forget to link or save it. Some speculate that this huge divide between Metro and the desktop was Sinofsky's hate for Metro, which Joe Belfiore really pushed after using it for windows phone. So we have 2 competing executives pushing paradigms which are totally different, it kind of makes sense knowing MS history. I'm seriously hoping that Sinofsky being gone is going to give Win8 a new lease on life, maybe service pack 1 ?!?!?
 

Cod3rror

macrumors 68000
Apr 18, 2010
1,809
151
Color me confused.

Which is better, the web app or metro-W8 Skydrive?

B

Both of them are Metro design. But...

The Metro web app is MUCH better.

Windows 8's Metro app(that you can download from the store) is terrible and dumbed down.
 

spinedoc77

macrumors G4
Jun 11, 2009
11,488
5,413
Both of them are Metro design. But...

The Metro web app is MUCH better.

Windows 8's Metro app(that you can download from the store) is terrible and dumbed down.

"Metro web app" ? Do you mean the web app, but that it is styled in a metro theme?
 

NT1440

macrumors Pentium
May 18, 2008
15,093
22,159
Hmm, can you elaborate how you set yours up? I just don't see ANY option to make a decent workflow, zero, but I'm hoping I'm missing some settings or options as I don't spend much time there. I know about the grouping, but while it helps a tiny bit it doesn't do much for having tons of programs you have to scroll through.

I have a group of utilities that I've gathered together for when I fix computers, a group just being a collection of icons but can be moved around as one when you zoom out in the start screen.

Then I have my news sources grouped together.

Then I have a group of programming apps like arduino for when I start fiddling around with that.

Really it's like having a folder in desktop mode, one for each use case.

The problem is it takes a ton of thinking to figure what is used most and what use case should go where.

Probably way too much work considering I only boot into windows when I need to use it to run .exe's which is next to never :p
 

Rogifan

macrumors Penryn
Original poster
Nov 14, 2011
24,735
32,201
And yeah, I agree with you about iOS, which is weird because one of the things I liked best about OSX is it's consistency. I don't get why they had to make the top bar turn baby blue or funky green to match whatever app you're in, or how, like you said, some apps look completely different than others. It's like Apple is forgetting everything they've learned over the past decade or so.
I hope Jony and Craig change this trend and the next major version of iOS is better designed.
 

Technarchy

macrumors 604
May 21, 2012
6,753
4,927
Metro UI is crap. I haven't touched it in two weeks and work from the desktop.

I HATE the new start menu and all its features.

I have to force myself to use the new start menu because the old desktop mode is way too comforting and familiar. It's also an issue because the start menu is not point and click friendly. Usable but not optimal.

Having a touch pad or touch mouse makes the feel more natural.
 

MonkeySee....

macrumors 68040
Sep 24, 2010
3,858
437
UK
I have to force myself to use the new start menu because the old desktop mode is way too comforting and familiar. It's also an issue because the start menu is not point and click friendly. Usable but not optimal.

Having a touch pad or touch mouse makes the feel more natural.

I bet. Windows 8 Is crying out for a Trackpad.
 

Irishman

macrumors 68040
Nov 2, 2006
3,449
859
I actually think windows 8 is a very good concept but it will only takeoff with surface pro...

The ipad and android tablets are good devices for media consumption.
But the surface pro can be a tablet to reply be productive, do some actual work and also do some couch or casual browsing...

That is something the ipad and android can never do...
They are based on mobile phone operating systems, and are limited by nature...

Also, their stores are low budget apps...
Everybody buys angry birds or another game for one dollar...
But because everyone thinks a mobile app for 20 bucks is too expensive, nobody develops serious apps for the Android or ipad ecosystems.

That's where Microsoft Windows 8 ecosystem can take off...
A serious platform, for both work and leisure, with devices that can be as powerfull as a desktop computer, as convenient as a tablet and as present as a mobile phone. All in sync and based on the same source code...

It is just the beginning for Microsoft, but from my understanding, they are already ahead of the game...

Cheers

I appreciate that you're a MS cheerleader, but this post is really flying in the face. Look, MS's Surface Pro, in trying to be the best of both worlds, ends up having a split personality instead. Here's what I mean - users who want file system access and high-end server apps and such are not the market for the Metro UI. Users who want a slick tablet interface won't want to pay more for the Surface Pro over the Surface.

When you say that users can finally get real work done on a tablet with Windows 8 tablets, I have to conclude this means Office and MS server apps. I can't see where this pent-up demand for Office is.

Can anyone else?

----------

There's definitely some truth to this. You can't imagine how many low end laptops are for sale at Best Buy (I work there) with touchpads that completely ruin the usability of gestures, and in many ways the overall experience of the computer.

I read somewhere that synaptics had finally made a truly great multitouch trackpad at a low enough price for OEM's to include across the board, but I still see nothing but ****** implementations (many have textures on them which basically kills swiping or even two finger scrolling detection) from every major player, that goes tenfold for you HP.

Apple's new laptops with multitouch pads are also textured, but have great response, so it's not the texture itself that is making those PCs touchpad poor performers.
 

Irishman

macrumors 68040
Nov 2, 2006
3,449
859
For sure. If they bring prices low enough, that is.

Not needed, MS has already seen the need to target Apple's pricing, when they priced the Surface. The Surface Pro will not be the same price.

Apple does not to chase price, especially in a space they created.
 

Black Magic

macrumors 68030
Sep 30, 2012
2,812
1,505
I appreciate that you're a MS cheerleader, but this post is really flying in the face. Look, MS's Surface Pro, in trying to be the best of both worlds, ends up having a split personality instead. Here's what I mean - users who want file system access and high-end server apps and such are not the market for the Metro UI. Users who want a slick tablet interface won't want to pay more for the Surface Pro over the Surface.

When you say that users can finally get real work done on a tablet with Windows 8 tablets, I have to conclude this means Office and MS server apps. I can't see where this pent-up demand for Office is.

Can anyone else?

----------



Apple's new laptops with multitouch pads are also textured, but have great response, so it's not the texture itself that is making those PCs touchpad poor performers.

IMHO, average consumers aren't buying tablets and running home to hop on word or powerpoint. They are going home and using it as a entertainment device. They may use it as a stop gap to get some productive things done on the fly but that is about it.

Know the market.

Microsoft is not a visionary/innovative company. They continue to rely on rehashed Microsoft Office and Windows to keep them rolling. Times are changing though. I'd be curious as to how many people are really upgrading Office frequently these days. How many are really using Office outside of work and school? Microsoft Outlook gets the nod as probably the standout app in the office suite but now all of us consume email via phone/tablet. Google and Apple are coming on strong with cloud Office suites behind the scenes and if they pull it off, Microsoft will be that much closer to desperation. It's coming. Universal file format. Install it once and forget it.

Do you really want to be that business owner 30 years from now going back through his archives for critical info saved in Word 2003 format but you can't open it any longer because that format changed out many years ago and you dont have access to Word 2003 anymore?

Professionals....

There may be a few executives out there that are attracted to Surface Pro, but I say it's DOA as well. All the executives already have tablets and phones and have had enough time to figure out how to integrate them seamlessly into their work flow. Do you think they want to dump all that and jump into a new interface and a young ecosystem just to have access to office? I don't think so.

Microsoft's best bet at survival is turning its software into an appliance/service subscription. Shrink wrap retail and 3 year upgrade cycles are pretty much done. People want updates faster and expect them very cheap or free.
 
Last edited:

spinedoc77

macrumors G4
Jun 11, 2009
11,488
5,413
IMHO, average consumers aren't buying tablets and running home to hop on word or powerpoint. They are going home and using it as a entertainment device. They may use it as a stop gap to get some productive things done on the fly but that is about it.

Know the market.

Microsoft is not a visionary/innovative company. They continue to rely on rehashed Microsoft Office and Windows to keep them rolling. Times are changing though. I'd be curious as to how many people are really upgrading Office frequently these days. How many are really using Office outside of work and school? Microsoft Outlook gets the nod as probably the standout app in the office suite but now all of us consume email via phone/tablet. Google and Apple are coming on strong with cloud Office suites behind the scenes and if they pull it off, Microsoft will be that much closer to desperation. It's coming. Universal file format. Install it once and forget it.

Do you really want to be that business owner 30 years from now going back through his archives for critical info saved in Word 2003 format but you can't open it any longer because that format changed out many years ago and you dont have access to Word 2003 anymore?

Professionals....

There may be a few executives out there that are attracted to Surface Pro, but I say it's DOA as well. All the executives already have tablets and phones and have had enough time to figure out how to integrate them seamlessly into their work flow. Do you think they want to dump all that and jump into a new interface and a young ecosystem just to have access to office? I don't think so.

Microsoft's best bet at survival is turning its software into an appliance/service subscription. Shrink wrap retail and 3 year upgrade cycles are pretty much done. People want updates faster and expect them very cheap or free.

It's always confusing to continue to see people saying the ipad does the dumb tablet thing better than anyone else, I just don't see it. Windows 8 can be a dumb tablet just as well as the ipad can, ie: a simple media consumption device. While Metro sucks for "windows like" activities, it doesn't suck for doing "ipad like" stuff like watching videos, movies music, pictures, etc. You can't even argue that it's thicker, more expensive, etc because it's not.

The ONLY area iOS has locked down is in the sheer number of apps in its ecosystem. Even though the number of apps is GROSSLY over exaggerated, iOS still has a lot lot more apps than windows if you only look at the windows store side, ignoring for a second the trouncing iOS would receive if we considered desktop programs. The big question in the dumb tablet arena is will Microsoft be able to entice developers into its ecosystem? Personally I think not unless they revamp Metro. For me there is nothing in the iOS ecosystem that I have not been able to replace with a windows app, or usually with a desktop program that does the job much better, and I'm definitely a power user.

It's funny, but all these years with the ipad and now being on a windows tablet I realized that I was trying for years to make the ipad into a computer, but it just never worked. Just little incredible discoveries on things that windows gives me freedom to do, things I discover every day. They may seem like small things, but they are huge to me, for example high contrast mode in Windows works perfectly for night time viewing, it doesn't invert the entire OS, only text and backgrounds, it leaves things like pictures intact. Contrasted with iOS where everything gets inverted making pictures non viewable, and Android which doesn't even have a high contrast mode. Prob a stupid example, but something which is pretty thrilling to me in my quest to not disturb my wife in bed. ;)
 

blackfox

macrumors 65816
Feb 18, 2003
1,210
4,574
PDX
I am kinda torn about windows 8. I have had macs all of my computing life (about 14 years) and only have had cursory knowledge of the various windows iterations. I got a windows phone a year ago (another one last week), and really like it. I tested Windows 8 preview and got windows 8 free on the gf's new computer. My thoughts:

To me, while some things were pretty counterintuitive (eg power/restart), and others just odd/annoying (two versions of IE in metro and desktop). I overall thought it was easy to navigate and like. I especially like being able to pin all manner of things to the start screen for easy access.

Though some of those icons created can be rather fugly, there are interesting work-arounds (via photoshop for example) to make really cool and useful layouts. I think that if windows 8 borrowed some of the resizing of tiles in wp8, things could get really interesting.

Right now, windows 8 is just in a weird spot - they don't have enough apps for integration between the two layers of windows 8, making it more jarring than it needs be. If MS is lucky, as things become more robust - things will become a lot more seamless. That's an "if" though.

That said, anyone remember the first iteration of osX? I was an early adopter there too...and look how that turned out.
 

mathi-vadhanan

macrumors member
Sep 14, 2011
40
2
Socal
I wish Metro UI was an app like Media center in Win7 for non touch based devices. Metro UI is awesome for tablets and the desktop mode is an added bonus when you want to dock it.
 

Cod3rror

macrumors 68000
Apr 18, 2010
1,809
151
I wonder why don't the pinned folders act as live tiles on the start screen? In SkyDrive web app, when you create a folder, if it has, for example, pictures in it, they will be used as a live tile for the folder.
 

Rodster

macrumors 68040
May 15, 2007
3,177
6
You know I laughed when I read on another website forum that there are some in particular Apple users who think that Windows 7 UI looks cluttered compared to the absolute Tile Chaos of Windows 8. :p

The Windows 8 UI was designed for the ADD crowd.
 

Sensamic

macrumors 68040
Mar 26, 2010
3,072
689
Is there already an app in the Windows store that allows to download torrents?
 

dalbir4444

macrumors 6502a
Oct 30, 2012
572
0
The latest news are that Microsoft sold 40 million licenses of Windows 8 in the first month of release, a figure which seems to compare favorably to Windows 7 (which sold 60 million in the first two months). Perhaps it's not so big of a disappointment.

Read it here:

http://www.windowsitpro.com/article...ls-40-million-windows-8-licenses-month-144880

I believe most of those sales are to OEMs. Currently there are about 15 million Windows 8 users (including me:)). It'll be interesting to see how well they continue to sell.
 

balamw

Moderator emeritus
Aug 16, 2005
19,365
979
New England
I have W8 running on my desktop and will probably put it on my MBP as well.

That said, I think Thurrott has a typo in here.

It’s worth nothing that most of the license sales in the 40 million figure were to PC makers, and not to end users.

I suspect he meant noting. ;)

B
 

Technarchy

macrumors 604
May 21, 2012
6,753
4,927
A note about Windows 8 Start screen and widgets/live tiles.

I never see them. Just like my android phones in the past, I spend no time staring at widgets and home screens. While I think Windows 8 has a pretty good notification set up when you are in app, I am finding the live tiles to be mostly dubious in value, like most widgets.

As of right now I have about 13 live tiles feeding news, email, people etc etc.

I installed Benco, which is sorta like Flipboard and I set up a feed from the Drudge Report plus numerous tech sites, and even still, it was just easier to open the app and read what I wanted.

And Windows 8 is very fast. Far more responsive, and better performance than I ever saw with Windows 7.
 
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