Tablets Windows 8 Tablet vs iPad

[Stuntman06]

I'm all happy with my iPad, but when I talk to friends who are considering buying a tablet, all of them consider the Microsoft Office question because they work in Windows environment. So, that kind of compatibility will pull a few people, I think, as will a USB port.

I own a Transformer tablet and one of the things I want for it is a decent spreadsheet app. The one I tried sucked compared to Excel on my PC. Excel set a very high standard for me. After using it for 20 years, I have yet to see anything come close. I would love to have something that is at least workable on my tablet. The only ones I tried so far are Polaris Office and Google Docs. I haven't tried anything else as I don't use spreadsheets much as of late.

My vision of tablet computing is to have a single tablet that replaces your home computer. When your home, you drop it in a dock and it connects to your multiple monitors, printer, keyboard, mouse, etc. and you have a full on machine. When you leave your office, you pop it out of the dock and you have a nice touch interface with an iPad like experience but you still have access to all your desktop apps and data.

This is what I want as well. Right now, my Transformer with keyboard dock comes close, but I still need my PC for some things. My Transformer tablet can do probably about 75% of what I want to do on my PC and do many of those things a lot better or more conveniently. Right now I can do days at a time without touching my PC, but I do have to use it on occasion. A tablet-like PC replacement is something I would really like. I want to get rid of my PC completely. A phone plus a tablet is what I want to satify all of my mobile, communications and computing needs.

 

[Carouser]

I don't care to own one, I just want someone to light a fire under Apple's ass. Over the last couple of years Apple has become far too comfortable with its position, and they're content pushing out these incremental updates full of beta software and fluff.

Over the last couple of years Apple has released some of the most advanced consumer electronics imaginable and their current offerings put competitors to shame. They've already responded - if you think they are resting on their laurels go get a job at Apple and see what it's like to work there.

The limits on their updates are infrastructure and technology, not the absence of competition; they could hardly produce improvements any more quickly.

Your ideas about what they should be doing aren't hampered by a connection to reality but unfortunately Apple doesn't have the same freedom.

EDIT: Just to be clear, there is competition in the marketplace; Apple continually responds and what results is just that - a range of products for consumers and superior products. Apparently competition only works one way - if Microsoft makes something good, Apple will supposedly respond with improvements, but when Apple makes something good, other companies take three years to cobble together landfill electronics. Go figure.

 

[Ay_Zimmy]

The difference is that the nexus looks like an iPad impersonation while Microsoft took the time and built something that stands themselves out. People in offices/travel would love it, the USB port stands out, keyboard, Microsots MOST IMPORTANT software yet, since they need this to put their foot in the door. Microsoft justntookvtheir time to make the perfect product, took Apple's mentality and built something the Microsoft way. We have to realize this tablet is striking the LAPTOP market intensel, which will eventually give it more attention to tablet users, or create new users to the tablet market. People need to give them more credit. This is Microsoft we are talking about, not the nexus tablet.

 

[HolyGrail]

Until Microsoft can understand the concept of keep it simple stupid, the surface will be an utter failure...IMO. The fact that they keep thinking the tablet is meant to replace something (computer or labtop) when it's supposed to be it's own entity....... is their main downfall.

Plus, if they don't allow other default options, besides Bing search and Bing maps, (kinda like they do on Windows phones.)... that will be another reason it will fail.

 

[spinedoc77]

I think it is technology that needs to catch up, not the market. For instance, it's obvious that the Surface Pro must run hotter than an iPad, since Microsoft had to create a cooling system for it. It's also yet unknown how good the battery life is on a Surface Pro, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was considerably shorter than the iPad's. I have a feeling that Apple isn't unaware that there is a market for a tablet-sized device capable of running a full desktop operating system, but they are waiting until the technology is there to create a tablet device that can run a full desktop OS while staying as cool and with a 10-hour battery life like the iPad.

Certainly these are the things I am waiting for. Battery life needs to be at least 75% of the ipad IMO, otherwise I don't want any part of it regardless of OS. Heat, well my ipad3 gets pretty darned hot so I think I'm ok with that by now.

But as you say, I'm reserving judgement until I actually hold one in my hands, or at least can read an unbiased hardware review of one. But if they do indeed have a long battery, acceptable heat full Windows OS then I'm sold on day one.

----------

I hope the Surface is a smashing success and even outsells the iPad for the remainder of the year.

Why?

I don't care to own one, I just want someone to light a fire under Apple's ass. Over the last couple of years Apple has become far too comfortable with its position, and they're content pushing out these incremental updates full of beta software and fluff.

Very accurate. I think it will be great what competition will bring and how Apple will answer it. My best hope is that Apple releases something so incredible I won't want to buy the Surface, but that just isn't true today.

 

[Rodster]

I hope the Surface is a smashing success and even outsells the iPad for the remainder of the year.

Why?

I don't care to own one, I just want someone to light a fire under Apple's ass. Over the last couple of years Apple has become far too comfortable with its position, and they're content pushing out these incremental updates full of beta software and fluff.

Unfortunately get used to it. With Steve no longer steering the ship, to me he was the only person who could imagine the next must have product. Yes Jonathan Ive's is an important figure as well but Steve had this insane ability of creating some of the coolest stuff people would part their money with.

 

[cdf3]

In my opinion, I do not feel that the iPad is a large phone.
It can feel that way to some, depending on the types of apps they use and how they use it. I actually use mine as close to a laptop as I can get it.
I have a BlueTooth Keyboard that I use with it. It comes in handy when typing Word and Excel documents. I do quite a bit of web browsing. I can quickly edit my websites using the WordPress app. Read and reply to numerous Emails.
A lot of what I was going on my laptop, I can now do on my iPad.
For those only using the iPad to listen to music, play videos, and games, then it may very well seem like a large iPhone or large iPod Touch.

As for the Microsoft Surface Tablet, I can't wait to see all of the reviews on it's performance and battery life. Being able to run Windows 8 on a tablet would be awesome. I know quite a few people that have the dilemma of, should I get an iPad or Laptop, because there are things that you can't do on an iPad that requires you to use the desktop version of PC or Mac. This will allow many to by a tablet that will take care all of their needs.

 

[Ay_Zimmy]

Until Microsoft can understand the concept of keep it simple stupid, the surface will be an utter failure...IMO. The fact that they keep thinking the tablet is meant to replace something (computer or labtop) when it's supposed to be it's own entity....... is their main downfall.

Plus, if they don't allow other default options, besides Bing search and Bing maps, (kinda like they do on Windows phones.)... that will be another reason it will fail.

See. Your just thinking apples way. Microsoft is the type of company that made such an impact in the pc maret that u have to trust they will transform it with their tablet, it's more down their alley than an iPad and Apple. Different companies, different visions.

 

[spinedoc77]

Until Microsoft can understand the concept of keep it simple stupid, the surface will be an utter failure...IMO. The fact that they keep thinking the tablet is meant to replace something (computer or labtop) when it's supposed to be it's own entity....... is their main downfall.

Plus, if they don't allow other default options, besides Bing search and Bing maps, (kinda like they do on Windows phones.)... that will be another reason it will fail.

I think the opposite, the concept that the tablet is NOT meant to replace anything but become an extra device is what is ultimately going to be a less viable device. Note I use less dramatic terminology than "doomed to failure".

Microsoft is clearly attempting to tackle the reasons people say a tablet cannot replace a computer or laptop, things like the keyboard/input and the OS. As I've said before when I look at my laptop and my ipad side by side I can't help but wonder why I need both of them. Microsoft's approach really has been the same from the beginning, to have a full OS on their tablets. Unfortunately technology was not advanced enough to do this and they ended up with very clunky, short battery life, with an OS which was not designed for touch screens. Today we have the hardware capability to run a full OS on a slim "tablet" type device with an acceptable battery life, MS has shown us we can truly have a keyboard which doesn't take away from the form factor or portability, and they are working very hard on an OS which can flip to a full OS and also to a portable OS in the same package.

Now the technology is hopefully at a level which will let us truly experience this. The ipad was a stopgap device which gave us a valuable bridge from a full computer to a portable device, but it was exactly that, a stopgap. At the end of the day it's one more device for me to purchase, one more device for me to consider putting into my bag when I go to work or on vacation, one more device that if it wasn't for the larger screen would simply replace my smartphone. None of this is saying anything bad about the ipad at all, but IMO it's time for bigger (not literally) and better devices to enter the market.

 

[darngooddesign]

Plus, if they don't allow other default options, besides Bing search and Bing maps, (kinda like they do on Windows phones.)... that will be another reason it will fail.

You mean like how I can't change the default browser on a stock iPad?

 

[62tele]

See. Your just thinking apples way. Microsoft is the type of company that made such an impact in the pc maret that u have to trust they will transform it with their tablet, it's more down their alley than an iPad and Apple. Different companies, different visions.

Microsoft has never "transformed" anything. They simpy don't get mobile devices. You want a USB port, keyboard and peripherals. Get an Air or Ultra.
Jobs was right about a post PC world. It's here and it caught Microsoft with its pants down as usual.

Another Zune or Kin is coming.

Microsoft, the company that gave you Windows ME and Vista.

 

[Stuntman06]

The difference is that the nexus looks like an iPad impersonation while Microsoft took the time and built something that stands themselves out. People in offices/travel would love it, the USB port stands out, keyboard, Microsots MOST IMPORTANT software yet, since they need this to put their foot in the door. Microsoft justntookvtheir time to make the perfect product, took Apple's mentality and built something the Microsoft way. We have to realize this tablet is striking the LAPTOP market intensel, which will eventually give it more attention to tablet users, or create new users to the tablet market. People need to give them more credit. This is Microsoft we are talking about, not the nexus tablet.

Up until Surface, the only tablet that I though really stood out was the Transformer with its keyboard dock. That was the reason I got one. It is not quite a PC replacement as I still need a PC for some things. I think that Surface takes it a step further to being a PC replacement.

Microsoft is clearly attempting to tackle the reasons people say a tablet cannot replace a computer or laptop, things like the keyboard/input and the OS. As I've said before when I look at my laptop and my ipad side by side I can't help but wonder why I need both of them. Microsoft's approach really has been the same from the beginning, to have a full OS on their tablets. Unfortunately technology was not advanced enough to do this and they ended up with very clunky, short battery life, with an OS which was not designed for touch screens. Today we have the hardware capability to run a full OS on a slim "tablet" type device with an acceptable battery life, MS has shown us we can truly have a keyboard which doesn't take away from the form factor or portability, and they are working very hard on an OS which can flip to a full OS and also to a portable OS in the same package.

The biggest problem I have with my laptop is the battery life. I cannot use it unplugged for more than 2.5 hours at a time. My tablet lasts 16 hours (including the keyboard dock). I don't think I should need both a laptop and a tablet. I would like a single device instead of two. I don't think this will happen yet with the first iteration of MS Surface. I do hope that by the time I need a new PC and tablet, I will only need to buy a single device instead of two.

 

[Piggie]

Microsoft has never "transformed" anything. They simpy don't get mobile devices. You want a USB port, keyboard and peripherals. Get an Air or Ultra.
Jobs was right about a post PC world. It's here and it caught Microsoft with its pants down as usual.

So, you do not class the iPad as a Personal Computer?

To me, I'd say it was a VERY PERSONAL computer.

Very interesting. So what do you actually see that iPad as then?
Not a computer?

 

[erawsd]

Over the last couple of years Apple has released some of the most advanced consumer electronics imaginable and their current offerings put competitors to shame. They've already responded - if you think they are resting on their laurels go get a job at Apple and see what it's like to work there.

The limits on their updates are infrastructure and technology, not the absence of competition; they could hardly produce improvements any more quickly.

Your ideas about what they should be doing aren't hampered by a connection to reality but unfortunately Apple doesn't have the same freedom.

EDIT: Just to be clear, there is competition in the marketplace; Apple continually responds and what results is just that - a range of products for consumers and superior products. Apparently competition only works one way - if Microsoft makes something good, Apple will supposedly respond with improvements, but when Apple makes something good, other companies take three years to cobble together landfill electronics. Go figure.

I'm not talking about the hardware, I agree that there isn't much more Apple can be doing with it.

I'm talking about software, over the last 2 years Apple really hasn't done much to address the weaknesses of the iPad. We got beta iCloud, which works well for some things but is a nightmare for others. Soon some of us will be getting beta Siri and beta Maps that are, arguably, less useful that what we have now. Apple got its reputation for never releasing anything "before its ready", and here we have 3 beta products in the last year.

Its still a serious PITA to get anything on or off the iPad, unless you're buying it from Itunes. I understand that Apple doesn't want to bring in a file system, but what we have now is pathetic and far more frustrating. Multitasking blows. iWork is still missing basic functionality/compatibility with real word processors.

My hope is that MS is able to release its USB equipped, Stylus friendly tablet with full file access, a real office suite, multitasking features, and support for every peripheral under the sun -- and its a massive success because it'll force Apple to rethink these aspect of iOS.

 

[HolyGrail]

You mean like how I can't change the default browser on a stock iPad?

No....because the browser, and the default search are two different things.

If you search on a windows phone..it forces you to use Bing (using browser or default search). iPhone/iPad allows the option to switch between Google,Yahoo, or Bing.

 

[darngooddesign]

No....because the browser, and the default search are two different things.

If you search on a windows phone..it forces you to use Bing (using browser or default search). iPhone/iPad allows the option to switch between Google,Yahoo, or Bing.

In he context of this discussion they are the same thing, restrictions placed by the manufacturer.

 

[Beta Particle]

Useless input.. I know exactly what it is. Doesn't mean it's all that different of an experience than the iPhone. The windows surface tablet is a TOTALLY different experience, and a lot of it has to do with SOFTWARE.

Sorry, but I don’t think you understand what Windows RT is. With the exception of Office and Internet Explorer, there will be no desktop apps for WinRT. Third party developers are only able to create Metro apps, which seem to be much more limited in scope than iOS allows, if they follow Microsoft’s UI guidelines. I can’t imagine that Metro apps will have the developer support that iOS has, neither Windows Phone or Android come close to the iOS App Store.

''The Windows Surface Tablet is just a smaller Windows computer''

The $1000 Surface Pro is a Windows computer, with hardware that is going to be hot, loud and have terrible battery life. Just look at how poor the battery life is on the 11″ MacBook Air running Windows, and now imagine cramming that hardware into a much smaller enclosure which also uses up a lot of space for the kickstand.

The fact that Microsoft hasn't announced battery life is very concerning. Plus, working with desktop applications when the Surface is in tablet mode is a no-go, because the apps aren't designed for touch interface, and 10inch is not enough screen space.

It has a 42Wh battery, which is more than the 35Wh of the 11″ MacBook Air. Windows has traditionally been less efficient than OS X though, so I would expect battery life on par with the MacBook Air—about two hours if you’re actually doing anything more than just web browsing or typing up a document.

As for your size concerns, there are no issues running Windows on a tablet that size. I frequently connect remotely to my PC here with my iPad, or use it as an extended monitor.

According to this presentation The Surface won't use a fan to keep it running cool. It uses a unique cooling system called "Perimeter Venting".

It uses a fan, the point is that there is not one specific fan grille that might be covered by how you hold the device, perimeter venting means that all sides are used for air to escape.

I hope the Surface is a smashing success and even outsells the iPad for the remainder of the year.

Why?

I don't care to own one, I just want someone to light a fire under Apple's ass.

Agreed. Having a competitor to the iPad would be a Good thing™.

If nothing else, I want to see if Apple can come up with something like the keyboard cover & kickstand for the iPad. Bluetooth 4 with inductive power? That way you could have something similar without requiring a physical connector. (The Surface is horribly ugly with all those ports & connectors around the edges)

 

[HolyGrail]

In he context of this discussion they are the same thing, restrictions placed by the manufacturer.

No..it's not. One is more restrictive then the other. Bottom line, Microsoft doesn't get it,and until they do......surface will fail.

What they need to do is stop trying to replace the desktop or the laptop. They instead need to build a tablet, that is based on superior touch, innovative software that no one's ever seen before, that appeals to advance users..... but it is as simple as a child to use and a grandmother could enjoy. This is how you get mass appeal for your product. They need to do this better than the iPad does and it will succeed.

You don't replace the kitchen knife, or a camping knife, or a work knife, with an all in one knife, to do everything in your household because it isn't a smart thing to do.

Keep a steak knife, a steak knife....... Keep a tablet, a tablet.

 

[Night Spring]

As for your size concerns, there are no issues running Windows on a tablet that size. I frequently connect remotely to my PC here with my iPad, or use it as an extended monitor.

I've tried remoting from my iPad to my PC, and I didn't like the experience. Let's just say like most things, this is a personal preference -- some people, like yourself, might find a 10-inch screen satisfactory, while others, like me, find it too small to get anything done.

Using an iPad as a second monitor is a different thing -- you can use it to display an app that doesn't need much space, like say, your twitter feed or chat window.

 

[TAJones99]

We will can I love competition.

 

[Piggie]

No..it's not. One is more restrictive then the other. Bottom line, Microsoft doesn't get it,and until they do......surface will fail.

What they need to do is stop trying to replace the desktop or the laptop. They instead need to build a tablet, that is based on superior touch, innovative software that no one's ever seen before, that appeals to advance users..... but it is as simple as a child to use and a grandmother could enjoy. This is how you get mass appeal for your product. They need to do this better than the iPad does and it will succeed.

You don't replace the kitchen knife, or a camping knife, or a work knife, with an all in one knife, to do everything in your household because it isn't a smart thing to do.

Keep a steak knife, a steak knife....... Keep a tablet, a tablet.

That's because a knife is a physically different object

A rectangle with glass on the front running iOS is the same physical item as a rectangle with glass on the front running OSX

You are saying in effect make a TV that only shows 1 channel, or just one TV for TV and another TV for games consoles.

In effect it's only the program on the screen of a TV or a Tablet that is the difference. nothing physical.

Sure you can then have or have not an optional physical keyboard to interact with what it on the screen, but it's the same physical object, just displaying a different program (operating system) on it's same screen

 

[HolyGrail]

That's because a knife is a physically different object

A rectangle with glass on the front running iOS is the same physical item as a rectangle with glass on the front running OSX

You are saying in effect make a TV that only shows 1 channel, or just one TV for TV and another TV for games consoles.

In effect it's only the program on the screen of a TV or a Tablet that is the difference. nothing physical.

Sure you can then have or have not an optional physical keyboard to interact with what it on the screen, but it's the same physical object, just displaying a different program (operating system) on it's same screen

Huh..what? What I posted was an analogy. You took it way too literally and went on a rant with it.

 

[Piggie]

Huh..what? What I posted was an analogy. You took it way too literally and went on a rant with it.

Because the analogy was a wrong one.

As you rightly point out a steak knife, a carving knife a butter knife etc are all physically different items that should be kept as separate things as you can't really have a perfect butter/steak/carving knife.

However, a tablet that runs iOS and a tablet that runs OSX are exactly the same thing. the only difference would be the software (program) that's running inside the memory of the chips on the circuit board.

There is no real practical reason why a tablet cannot be both things, unlike the knives.

As in there is no practical reason why my TV should not be using it's built in tuner one minute to show me some bible singing in church and the next moment, being fed via HMDI from my xBox to play Call or Duty.

The "Box of tricks" can do both tasks.

 

[spinedoc77]

Sorry, but I don’t think you understand what Windows RT is. With the exception of Office and Internet Explorer, there will be no desktop apps for WinRT. Third party developers are only able to create Metro apps, which seem to be much more limited in scope than iOS allows, if they follow Microsoft’s UI guidelines. I can’t imagine that Metro apps will have the developer support that iOS has, neither Windows Phone or Android come close to the iOS App Store.

The $1000 Surface Pro is a Windows computer, with hardware that is going to be hot, loud and have terrible battery life. Just look at how poor the battery life is on the 11″ MacBook Air running Windows, and now imagine cramming that hardware into a much smaller enclosure which also uses up a lot of space for the kickstand.

It has a 42Wh battery, which is more than the 35Wh of the 11″ MacBook Air. Windows has traditionally been less efficient than OS X though, so I would expect battery life on par with the MacBook Air—about two hours if you’re actually doing anything more than just web browsing or typing up a document.

As for your size concerns, there are no issues running Windows on a tablet that size. I frequently connect remotely to my PC here with my iPad, or use it as an extended monitor.

It uses a fan, the point is that there is not one specific fan grille that might be covered by how you hold the device, perimeter venting means that all sides are used for air to escape.

Agreed. Having a competitor to the iPad would be a Good thing™.

If nothing else, I want to see if Apple can come up with something like the keyboard cover & kickstand for the iPad. Bluetooth 4 with inductive power? That way you could have something similar without requiring a physical connector. (The Surface is horribly ugly with all those ports & connectors around the edges)

I would think that most on here are talking about WinPro, not WinRT. IMO WinRT is going to be an unmitigated disaster so I'm not even going to bother discussing it.

As for WinPro running hot, loud, and have terrible battery life we won't know until it's actually released. It's interesting that you bring up a macbook air running on windows, my wife runs Win7 on her 11" macbook air, and I run Win7 on my 13" macbook air. They both run smooth as butter, the fan rarely goes on unless I'm doing something intensive like transferring a large file, my laptops don't run hot in the least, battery life is exactly the same as when I run OSx, etc etc.

It really all is just guesses at this point until we see final hardware. At least in pie in the sky dreaming Microsoft seems to be taking "mobile PC's" to the next level, but it's too soon to tell and I'm hoping Apple will begin to innovate again like they did with the ipad1 in reaction to the competition.

 

[darngooddesign]

No..it's not. One is more restrictive then the other. Bottom line, Microsoft doesn't get it,and until they do......surface will fail.

Which is more restrictive is purely subjective.

What they need to do is stop trying to replace the desktop or the laptop. They instead need to build a tablet, that is based on superior touch, innovative software that no one's ever seen before, that appeals to advance users..... but it is as simple as a child to use and a grandmother could enjoy. This is how you get mass appeal for your product. They need to do this better than the iPad does and it will succeed.

You don't replace the kitchen knife, or a camping knife, or a work knife, with an all in one knife, to do everything in your household because it isn't a smart thing to do.

Keep a steak knife, a steak knife....... Keep a tablet, a tablet.

Apple totally should have kept an iPod an iPod, not combined it with a web browser and an app platform.

Metro is as innovative as iOS, and from a visual POV I think it is more so.

Apple has added many features to iOS that lets it replace the desktop, and for a lot of casual computer users, iPads have replaced their regular computers.

I would argue that with Metro being a separate layer from the classic desktop this is what Msoft is doing. If all you want is a tablet, that's all you need interact with. You have to specifically enter desktop mode, it doesn't happen accidentally, and if you buy an ARM device you will never enter it. I think Msoft ius being smart, you can have just the tablet experience, something that is optimized for touch and works just fine on the same level that iOS does, but if you want your tablet and computer to be a single device you can have that as well.