Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Originally posted by MacCoaster
Pale Fire, NewBorn77:

Uh. I had a Pentium II 233 MHz. Ran Windows XP on it since Beta 2, with 128 MB RAM. Ran barely fine. Without the fancy **** running (had settings to the lowest possible configuration), runs just fine, even with Visual Studio, IE, AIM, Office, etc.

Let's see, can we turn off Aqua in Mac OS X? Unfortunately not. I just need a GUI *that* works speedily. That's primarily my problem with Mac OS X. Runs like **** on older computers.

I guess I have very high expectations.

If you have done it and you say it runs then it runs. I believe you. Remember I was just guessing based on my experience with a PIII.

LOL :D Those are exactly the only apps I have installed in my PC (Visual Studio, AIM and Office).

Aqua is certainly in the need of a tune up. In my PM 733 it works fine (could be better though). But in my iceBook... well... not very fine.

Sorry if I sound rude or something I don't mean to :D

Bye.
 
Re: Clarifications

i have to begin by saying that i am not trying to sound combattive at all, or trying to continue any kind of flame war :)
Originally posted by MacCoaster
Oh, so running Jaguar on your 667 MHz PowerBook is fast enough for me? Nope.

Did you even notice the "I" in my sentence. I was referring to my opinions for MY own needs.

I find it sluggish on anything slower than the dual 1 GHz.
well, by the same token, i could say that in my opinion, a 2.8 ghz p4 is not very fast, not enough for my needs, maybe for someone's mother, but not for me, get the point?

It's not satisfactorily for me on older machines. The iMac G3 700 MHz we have runs Mac OS X horribly slow, Jaguar is better, but it's still too slow. I'm far more productive in Linux using WindowMaker on a single 1.733 GHz Athlon.
i doubt that anyone here will challenge the statement that a 1.7 ghz athlon is faster than a 700mhz g3. i also doubt that anyone would question whether or not linux/windowmaker is less resource intensive than mach/darwin/osx/aqua. obviously the pc system will be faster, if i had a 1ghz g4 running yellowdoglinux/twm, it would be a lot faster than a p2 running windows3.1at 233mhz. so if you're going to say that macs are slow because your brand new athlon box running linux is faster than your 2 year old bottom of the line mac (that's not an insult, i have an old imac too :D ) running osx, it's not really a fair picture.
 
Re: Re: Clarifications

Originally posted by FattyMembrane
well, by the same token, i could say that in my opinion, a 2.8 ghz p4 is not very fast, not enough for my needs, maybe for someone's mother, but not for me, get the point?
Exactly my point. That's repeating my statement. :p. If it's not fast enough for you, then get a faster PC.
i doubt that anyone here will challenge the statement that a 1.7 ghz athlon is faster than a 700mhz g3. i also doubt that anyone would question whether or not linux/windowmaker is less resource intensive than mach/darwin/osx/aqua. obviously the pc system will be faster, if i had a 1ghz g4 running yellowdoglinux/twm, it would be a lot faster than a p2 running windows3.1at 233mhz. so if you're going to say that macs are slow because your brand new athlon box running linux is faster than your 2 year old bottom of the line mac (that's not an insult, i have an old imac too :D ) running osx, it's not really a fair picture.
Correct, except we got the iMac brand new after my Athlon [August 2001, upgraded November 2002]. Admittedly I upgraded it recently to 1.733 GHz from 1.4 GHz, but 1.4 GHz is still way faster than the iMac 700 MHz. Yes Linux takes less resources than Mac OS X: that's my exact problem with Mac OS X. Far too many resources are used. It's getting better, though, which is very good. The iMac isn't two year old, it's a year old. We got it in December 2001.

Who cares if it's not a fair picture. It's a fair picture to me because the iMac doesn't fit my needs and my Athlon was faster, cheaper. A *real* fair speed "check" of Mac OS X would be, IMHO, if it ran on regular x86 boxes like my Athlon. Since it'd take advantage of the AGP+GF3 for Quartz Engine AND it has the advantage of a really fast processor.
 
In response to Cappy.

Attacking their "lack" of innovation is a lost cause. Sure they've stolen or bought many of their ideas(not all of them) but though you may frown on it, they have actually been very innovative in a business sense which is what the bottom line is all about.

I probably wasn't very clear as you didn't understand. I wasn't attacking their "lack" of innovation as much as I am attacking the times they have ATTEMPTED innovation. Everytime Microsoft was claimed Innovation it has either been 1. Not revolutionary and more evolutionary, which I feel is still innovation just not something worth gloating about necessarily. 2. Is innovation they stole from another company (we all know this one all too well and not just from Apple) or 3. Ill-concieved innovation that they they simply expect consumers to love and is usually poorly-designed, backward, etc.

Microsoft should do less revolutionary innovation and MORE evolutionary innovation. They don't have the skill or the right staff to attempt what Apple and other companies do in that respect. From my perspective the Star Menu (which is filed uner evolutionary innovation) was a great idea and is very functional. I feel a thing they could improve is making it easier and more intuitive to customize the starbar itself. But the Taskbar and control panel to the right are very well done.

Now compare this to XP which claimed a "revolutionary user interface" which basically equates hiding everything useful under an annoying layer of cutesy styfling Wizards. I am a Windows power user, I don't need any of that and I can see other's using it but it should not be a "forced" part of Windows XP Professional. Professional means I should be able to exercise control over my computer and it's functions and not be limited to some animated question-mark jumping around telling me I need to set up my internet every five minutes.

Am I being more clear this time?

Keep things in perspective though. They were originally talking 2005 for the release of that OS. By then people are going to be running higher resolutions and you have to admit that it's still early in the beta cycle that things can change. When Aqua was introduced, many were disappointed that things were taking up too much reale estate if you had a screen res of 800 x 600 and some didn't even like it with 1024 x 768. You also have to keep in mind what kind of users are going to be picky about that as well. The basic home user typically won't care that much depending on how bad it is.

At any rate I'm not out to condone what MS does or is doing but lets not be blind to things either.

I don't like to think I am blind to things. I have used PC's far longer and along-side my Macs. I respect both platforms...mostly. I depend on my Macintosh for getting my work done and managing just about everything but gaming and some specific multimedia tasks that I do on my PC.

I am not one who feels 'dirty' using Windows but one is constantly disapointed by tasks taking longer and being more counter-intuitive than the Mac. Also how Microsoft feels the need to literally change the interface of various control panels with almost every release. Before XP I had been using 2000 Pro which in my opinion is the finest piece of Windows software EVER produced. Stability, speed, cohesive interface. Everything one has come to not expect from Windows is done fairly well. With XP it was a step backwards. I plan to upgrade back down to 2000 when I have time to reformat.

Longhorn will be substantially different when it comes out then how it is now. That doesn't stop me from being stupified as to why Microsoft chooses to carry Microsoft in a different direction than it should (Towards the less functional cutesy interface). In the end this will alienate businesses who already feel XP is too distracting and professionals who only get annoyed by the limitations of the dumbed-down UI.

Microsoft hopefully in time will see this and make some changes...we can at least hope for the Professional version. The consumer version they can make as ugly, cutesy, and moronic as they choose. There isn't a need to force that on people who know what they are doing.

Anyways, LongHorn has been deleted and replaced with Linux, once more. Of course Linus is just as much of an arrogant ass as Gates is so I don't see that as cleansing the computer at all. Oh, well.

We can all enjoy laughing at Longhorn for Consumers when it finally comes out. Microsoft is carrying itself down the wrong road and one it should not try and follow Apple as I myself don't like the direction Apple has chosen to take itself, despite the fact that the road may straighten out for Apple later on.
 
Re: In response to Cappy.

Originally posted by Yujenisis
Now compare this to XP which claimed a "revolutionary user interface" which basically equates hiding everything useful under an annoying layer of cutesy styfling Wizards. I am a Windows power user, I don't need any of that and I can see other's using it but it should not be a "forced" part of Windows XP Professional. Professional means I should be able to exercise control over my computer and it's functions and not be limited to some animated question-mark jumping around telling me I need to set up my internet every five minutes.

Also how Microsoft feels the need to literally change the interface of various control panels with almost every release. Before XP I had been using 2000 Pro which in my opinion is the finest piece of Windows software EVER produced. Stability, speed, cohesive interface. Everything one has come to not expect from Windows is done fairly well. With XP it was a step backwards. I plan to upgrade back down to 2000 when I have time to reformat.

Longhorn will be substantially different when it comes out then how it is now. That doesn't stop me from being stupified as to why Microsoft chooses to carry Microsoft in a different direction than it should (Towards the less functional cutesy interface). In the end this will alienate businesses who already feel XP is too distracting and professionals who only get annoyed by the limitations of the dumbed-down UI.

[a couple stuff snipped]
That's why Windows XP and Longhorn has Classic theme. Works just like Windows 2000. Windows XP on my Athlon is substanially faster and stabler, although it is really a "YMMV" thing. I personally find the silver theme of Luna just fine and it's plenty fast on my Athlon. I don't find any limitations in the so called "dumbed-down" UI. Please feel free to list some that are in your opinion limitations. Besides, you could say the same thing for Mac OS X. Yeah, the candy interface is dumbed down from the Mac OS 9 interface and OS 9 sometimes offers more features than Mac OS X interface-wise, such as the NSChooseFile Open File dialog. It's a step backwards from the Mac OS 9 version, IMO; in addition, what Microsoft has done is yet push that further yet retaining the usability feature of the previous operating system. I realize that Open File dialog... big whoop, but I was just making a counterpoint to prove a similar case.

Besides, what "jumping questions"? I haven't had any of those at all except when I installed Windows XP. I simply right clicked it and told it to go away. All I had to do was open Internet Explorer for the first time and make sure it has LAN set. I'm off on the internet already without re-setting it every 5 minutes. If that is what you're doing. You're having problems.

Longhorn will be a very extensible OS as many things are XML based and the FS will be able to utilize SQL technologies. Wouldn't it be so great and useful to just tell your computer to "find all music that were composed within last year by <insert band>" or "find all emails I composed to <insert name> containing information about medical records"? I personally can't wait until it comes out to see all the final features that make into Longhorn to compare with other OSes. It is much too primitive to make any hard judgements on it just yet.

Microsoft is carrying itself down the right road, IMO. Their innovation is not just in the software, but the hardware as well. They took the tablet idea and took it further. Smart Displays? Oh wow. Detach one of those apart and take it anywere. Microsoft already has one of those sweet BlueTooth keyboards. I personally think the major misconception of Microsoft by many is set exclusively on Windows and Office; yes, those are Microsoft's primary income, but that doesn't stop Microsoft from having a research company to come up with new stuff. Microsoft is on a roll. The upcoming few years will be very interesting and everyone should wake up and be smart--their money determines Microsoft's fate. Just wait and see what happens. You may be very right that Microsoft is digging its own grave somehow. As I said, it's up to the consumers to determine if Microsoft is going down the right road or not.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.