Windows PC

[MultiFinder17]

I'm another in the camp that uses a Mac for most things personally but has a PC for games. I enjoy building PCs and enjoy being able to spec out and build my own system, and I also enjoy being able to make it look like I want. I have my system built into a little late 90s IBM tower and I love it so much

 

[maflynn]

I have my system built into a little late 90s IBM tower and I love it so much

I'm really tempted to build a new machine in a IBM 5150 case. The work effort would be sizable, since the standard AT motherboard sizing wasn't a thing back then. Still, the nostalgia that the IBM PC brings, is such that it would be cool to have that on my desk

 

[Flowstates]

I need CUDA for the time being, a custom built workstation with nVidia compute is a must. I use a set of LG 24 4k Display that only take input with DP over TB ... Tried multiple setups ... I now use Parsec to beam the Windows machine to my Screens with my MBP docked and devices connected to it, given the wired ethernet it is seamless ... WiFi is sub par for the setup but works when away.

It was a blast to be able to play Baldur's gate in 4k too.

Let it be said that if the possibility not to have to deal with windows ever again was given, I'd take it in a heartbeat.

 

[MultiFinder17]

I'm really tempted to build a new machine in a IBM 5150 case. The work effort would be sizable, since the standard AT motherboard sizing wasn't a thing back then. Still, the nostalgia that the IBM PC brings, is such that it would be cool to have that on my desk

Yeah, that's why I went for a "newer" case. I did my best to keep it completely stock and original outside. The only external mods that I did were drilling venting holes for a fan in the back and sticking the Ryzen 5 sticker next to the Windows 98 sticker.

I also installed a 3.5" bay USB3 port setup behind the door on the front, so when it's closed you can't tell it's there. All in service of keeping the stock look. And yes, the original floppy drive is still in there

 

[turbineseaplane]

@MultiFinder17

Absolutely awesome job
That is such a cool look to have for modern guts inside!

 

[skaertus]

Hi All,

I believe all of you may have multiple Macs, but how many of you still have Windows PCs? If so, could you share what you do to use Windows PCs? I switched to Mac after the Intel Mac release, I was using a lot of Windows apps, but as soon as I switched, I did not go back to Windows anymore, there was only one to use if I needed to flash some PC GPU, after that, I did not know should I need to keep my PC anymore, any advice?

Thank you All

In my experience, Windows PCs have been far superior to running Microsoft Offfice. MS Office apps are far superior under Windows than under macOS as well.

I have not thoroughly tested MS Office under silicon Macs, but I suppose the experience would remain similar.

 

[dumastudetto]

Do you isolate your old Windows PC's on their own wireless network? Security is always a concern of mine with less trustworthy devices. For example, I do not permit anything running Android on my WiFi network.

 

[Technerd108]

Do you isolate your old Windows PC's on their own wireless network? Security is always a concern of mine with less trustworthy devices. For example, I do not permit anything running Android on my WiFi network.

Really? Is this a joke? Why would you not permit anything running android on your network?

This is such an odd behavior seen mostly in people who only use Apple tech. They have been so brainwashed by the marketing by Apple they think they are 100% secure using a Mac.

The world has changed and threats to MacOS and iOS have become more prevalent,

First ever iOS trojan discovered — and it’s stealing facial recognition data to break into bank accounts

What you need to know about the dangerous Android banking trojan that's been ported to iPhone

www.tomsguide.com

This is a recent example.

Security and privacy on the internet are an illusion at best. You can take steps and have layers of security but if a hacker is good enough it doesn't matter the platform or device as long as it is connected to the internet.

Windows comes with its own highly customizable firewall if skilled enough to use it. It has one of av test higher rated antivirus and anti ransomware built into the OS and works really well and doesn't impact resources. You can monitor your internet traffic with Windows firewall and lock down processes or apps that are not supposed to be talking.

Any OS can be vulnerable to malware. It is about how many tools you can use and how transparent is your network traffic so you can be sure of your privacy and security. Locking down telemetry on Windows is easy.

On Android the OS is open source and audited by third parties. Google has its own security team and has alerted Microsoft and Apple to threats before they knew. Google has very good security on modern phones by major OEMs. Samsung has Knox enclave and secure folders that even iOS doesn't have.

If you want to be secure and private you need to have access to what is going on, then you need the knowledge and tools to lock things down as best you can and then some type of security software. A VPN or Tor network can give you better privacy than any device can by itself and Google offers a free VPN with a Pixel phone. Does Apple offer a free VPN? I don't know. I am sure you can pay for one but free means more people will use it and it gives better security from day one you start using it. You can use Google VPN on your tablet, PC, and phone.


But yes, Android and Windows are just so insecure. LOL

Oh I almost forgot. What do you mean by old? Most PC's old enough not to run a supported version of Windows would not run very well and most would upgrade. Of you just have an ancient PC lying around the best advice is Linux. Ubuntu can be installed and run well on most Windows 8 type PC. Anyone running an unsupported version of Windows is crazy or any OS for that matter, but specifically Windows. Better to let that version of Windows 2000 to die or use security software and hope for the best. Lol

 

[lcseds]

No. All of my devices are welcome to use my home network.

 

[iHorseHead]

Anyone running an unsupported version of Windows is crazy

Luckily Windows is much better supported than Macs. Even Windows XP is better supported than Mac OS X Lion for example. I'd say XP is way more secure than Lion and you can actually browse the web etc and it has modern Chromium browsers as well. One thing why Windows PCs are better is their longevity and support. I have also a Dell laptop which I never use, because it has 2GB of RAM and it's maxed out. It's only good for word processing or surfing the web. It's running Windows 10, but it's' older than my first MacBook (early 2008) and the Dell was supported from XP to Windows 10 (32-bit). It had some security updates now. I usually play GTA 2 on it. Anyways, it's been supported for longer than my very first MacBook (from Leopard to Lion) and my second MacBook Pro (mid 2010) from Snow Leopard to High Sierra. I don't know why I chose a MacBook again, but I upgraded to MacBook Air M1 and we'll see for how long my MacBook will be supported. Windows PCs are supported for way longer than Macs. That's a fact and in the future Android phones will be supported for longer as well and if not anymore there's a community out there that supports Windows XP and Windows 2000 etc… There isn't a Mac community that'd make a modern web browser for Lion for example and release patches to it.

Back to the topic:
My work laptop is a Windows Machine. It has 8GB of RAM and runs Windows 11 pretty smoothly. I work in IT Support and do server monitoring for a living.
Have had this laptop since 2020 and don't want a new one. It's HP EliteBook, connected to a docking station.

 

[1BadManVan]

Luckily Windows is much better supported than Macs. Even Windows XP is better supported than Mac OS X Lion for example. I'd say XP is way more secure than Lion and you can actually browse the web etc and it has modern Chromium browsers as well. One thing why Windows PCs are better is their longevity and support. I have also a Dell laptop which I never use, because it has 2GB of RAM and it's maxed out. It's only good for word processing or surfing the web. It's running Windows 10, but it's' older than my first MacBook (early 2008) and the Dell was supported from XP to Windows 10 (32-bit). It had some security updates now. I usually play GTA 2 on it. Anyways, it's been supported for longer than my very first MacBook (from Leopard to Lion) and my second MacBook Pro (mid 2010) from Snow Leopard to High Sierra. I don't know why I chose a MacBook again, but I upgraded to MacBook Air M1 and we'll see for how long my MacBook will be supported. Windows PCs are supported for way longer than Macs. That's a fact and in the future Android phones will be supported for longer as well and if not anymore there's a community out there that supports Windows XP and Windows 2000 etc… There isn't a Mac community that'd make a modern web browser for Lion for example and release patches to it.

Back to the topic:
My work laptop is a Windows Machine. It has 8GB of RAM and runs Windows 11 pretty smoothly. I work in IT Support and do server monitoring for a living.
Have had this laptop since 2020 and don't want a new one. It's HP EliteBook, connected to a docking station.

As much as people hate on 8gb machines, 8gb still does quite well for many people. My son has an hp aero 13 with the 5600u and 8gb of ram and loves it. Runs great, even plays some older steam games on it

 

[iHorseHead]

As much as people hate on 8gb machines, 8gb still does quite well for many people. My son has an hp aero 13 with the 5600u and 8gb of ram and loves it. Runs great, even plays some older steam games on it

Sure, 8GB is just fine. I used to have MSi Modern 14 laptop, which I gave to my mom because her old laptop was too slow (both had 8GB of RAM. The difference is still night and day). On my MSI I was able to play all the games that I tried. Just Cause 2, Cities Skylines, Civilization VI, Doom Eternal etc and it ran games much better than my MacBook Air or other MacBooks with 16GB of RAM.
Also, in my country, I checked you can get a PC with 32GB at least and if you look hard enough even 128GB for the price of MacBook Pro that has 8GB of Ram. Overpaying much?

I just checked out HP Aero 13 in my country. It's weird. It costs $500, has Windows 11 and 16GB of RAM, 512GB SSD. That's all great, but if you choose a pink colour you're gonna have to pay $700 for the same specs. Reminds me of how I got my iPhone 12 mini. The blue one was very cheap. Interesting though. The only reason I got another MacBook was to learn swift, but I'm not doing so good. Anyway, I've been thinking that Macs are too overpriced. Especially outside the US and Eastern Europe. I mean for the 16GB Ram upgrade on MacBook Air I could pay one month's rent at least. It'd cost like +$400 to go from 8GB to 16. I think that's something that many Mac users don't realise and why people in many places are hesitant to buy Macs or iPhones.

 

[1BadManVan]

Sure, 8GB is just fine. I used to have MSi Modern 14 laptop, which I gave to my mom because her old laptop was too slow (both had 8GB of RAM. The difference is still night and day). On my MSI I was able to play all the games that I tried. Just Cause 2, Cities Skylines, Civilization VI, Doom Eternal etc and it ran games much better than my MacBook Air or other MacBooks with 16GB of RAM.
Also, in my country, I checked you can get a PC with 32GB at least and if you look hard enough even 128GB for the price of MacBook Pro that has 8GB of Ram. Overpaying much?

I just checked out HP Aero 13 in my country. It's weird. It costs $500, has Windows 11 and 16GB of RAM, 512GB SSD. That's all great, but if you choose a pink colour you're gonna have to pay $700 for the same specs. Reminds me of how I got my iPhone 12 mini. The blue one was very cheap. Interesting though. The only reason I got another MacBook was to learn swift, but I'm not doing so good. Anyway, I've been thinking that Macs are too overpriced. Especially outside the US and Eastern Europe. I mean for the 16GB Ram upgrade on MacBook Air I could pay one month's rent at least. It'd cost like +$400 to go from 8GB to 16. I think that's something that many Mac users don't realise and why people in many places are hesitant to buy Macs or iPhones.

Unfortunately im guilty of paying the Apple tax as well. I own a M2 air 16gb/1tb model, didnt need it at all but I splurged lol. My main gaming rig has 32gb of ram which I do definitely take advantage of but im an enthusiast and go a little overkill for my needs, I know that lol. Obviously if I was on a budget more, I wouldn't be buying a MacBook at all unless I had a specific need for something Mac specific and I dont recommend it to most people I know for their needs.

In Canada our prices are definitely pretty steep as well, maybe not quite as steep as where you live. Costs $250 to go from 8gb to 16gb for the MacBook which is just dumb. I got a 32gb DDR5 6400mhz RBG ram kit for my desktop for $150 lol

 

[dumastudetto]

Unfortunately im guilty of paying the Apple tax as well. I own a M2 air 16gb/1tb model, didnt need it at all but I splurged lol. My main gaming rig has 32gb of ram which I do definitely take advantage of but im an enthusiast and go a little overkill for my needs, I know that lol. Obviously if I was on a budget more, I wouldn't be buying a MacBook at all unless I had a specific need for something Mac specific and I dont recommend it to most people I know for their needs.

In Canada our prices are definitely pretty steep as well, maybe not quite as steep as where you live. Costs $250 to go from 8gb to 16gb for the MacBook which is just dumb. I got a 32gb DDR5 6400mhz RBG ram kit for my desktop for $150 lol

Not all RAM is the same. Apple SoC RAM is embedded deeply in the brains of your computer to achieve maximum performance, data integrity, and system stability. Apple memory costs more because it’s better in every way.

 

[iHorseHead]

Not all RAM is the same. Apple SoC RAM is embedded deeply in the brains of your computer to achieve maximum performance, data integrity, and system stability. Apple memory costs more because it’s better in every way.

Highly doubt it. Apple's RAM has always been overpriced.

There's nothing special about Apple's RAM. It's high quality, and it's integrated on a very wide memory bus very close to the M3 chip, but those manufacturing complexities don't make the RAM cost more. Apple's charging you $200 for RAM it buys for $30

Apple's MacBook Pro memory problem is worse than ever

Apple still sells expensive "Pro" computers with just 8GB of RAM and charges a fortune for more.

www.macworld.com

I don't really find any proof to your sources. The same with storage. I find no proof that Apple's RAM or storage are better. Just overpriced.

And charging $3000 for a laptop that has 8GB of RAM should be criminal anyway. To be more specific: $2,936.86 for MacBook Pro 8GB of RAM. If I wanted to upgrade it to 16GB it'd cost me $3413,82. Of course, it's from an Apple's official reseller , since there are no Apple stores over here, but still. Unacceptable + you could get a much better speced PC for that money.

For example for the price of upgrading to MacBook Pro M2 16GB price I could get ASUS ZenBook DUO UX8406MA-PZ051W 14" OLED Ultra 9-185H 32GB RAM 2TB SSD Windows 11 Home.
Do you think it has worse RAM and SSD and that it's worse than MacBook Pro with 16GB of RAM?

You literally get such laptop for the price of MacBook Pro in my country

 

[Apollo68]

Not all RAM is the same. Apple SoC RAM is embedded deeply in the brains of your computer to achieve maximum performance, data integrity, and system stability. Apple memory costs more because it’s better in every way.

It’s still just ordinary lpddr5 nand chips. The only thing special about is that they gave It a wide bus and put it really close to the cpu. But other than that it is no different than any off the shelf DDR5 DIMM or SoDIMM I can pick up at micro center. In fact those off the shelf solutions have more performance headroom usually because they can handle a bit more voltage, allowing me to boost the frequency and tighten the timings. Apple has had a track record of limiting performance in some of there machines by refusing to include memory faster than the JEDEC standard. To reiterate my point, there is nothing special about the memory Apple uses, the only advantages they have come solely from a system architecture perspective. @dumastudetto

 

[Technerd108]

The Apple price for ram upgrades is just a money grab and there is no honest defense of it. If you don't mind it and can afford it then it is fine. I think that is part of the reason Apple charges so much. They want people to know if you have maxed out machine you paid a lot for it and obviously have money to burn and all the peasants can only afford an air with 8gb ram, LOL. At least that is the attitude I get from people on these forums like they are proud they spent 5k on a 14" laptop. So I think on the one hand you have people who complain about the outrageousness of the cost and then you have others that don't care how much it costs and the fact the cost is prohibitive for most people makes them feel good.

I look at it this way. I was thinking of selling my air and replacing it with an M3 air 13" or M3 14" MBP. The cost of the M3 MBA with 16gb ram and 512gb ssd is $1499. Not bad. But the air specced like the HP would cost $2299! But I can get an HP Spectre with 32gb ram and 2tb ssd, OLED 3k screen with 120hz and dynamic refresh rate and AR coating with Ultra 7 155h for the exact same price as the $1499 air.

If I got the M3 MBP 14" with 18gb ram and 512gb ssd it would cost $1999. And specced liked HP it would be $2599!

So no matter what the cost is either the same or much more for the same spec device. If I get the air for $1499 then I would have weaker speakers, 60hz screen, no touch, etc.

The ram on the Spectre is ddr5x 7656 or something like that. It is faster than the ram Apple uses and it is also soldiered to the board using a new connect fabric Intel is suing for faster bandwidth. I think it is possible since Apple ram is on the SOC that it is faster but by how much is questionable and it is possible it is not faster with new laptops with Meteorlake processors. And you also have the advantage of getting more ram much cheaper than Apple so even if Apple ram is a bit faster it costs so much more it is prohibitive for most people to get as much as they would want.

GPU on Intel is also better than M3 but not as good as M3 Pro which is a pretty big deal.

Apple stuff is great and I like m series processors a lot but the entire platform is like a phone, if any one component, ram, ssd, cpu, gpu fail the entire SOC is useless and will need to be replaced. So I am worried about repair costs or catastrophic failure. I do think SOC's in general are very reliable and less prone to failure but it does happen and with the Apple architechture you can't even replace a bad ssd. So longevity is a gamble until we know 10 years or so from the m1 macs and how well they age.

So Apple doesn't care about ram costs. They have a set price based on maximizing profits. It is a business that is widely successful-why do you think that it. Offer a base model at a good price but hobble it enough you have to upgrade where the profit is. All of us who bought above a base model gave Apple their profit. Literally the upgrades to ram and ssd are the profit center. If they only sold base models the profit would be rather low. It is the low hanging fruit to draw you in the door and iot works very well.

 

[Apollo68]

Do you isolate your old Windows PC's on their own wireless network? Security is always a concern of mine with less trustworthy devices. For example, I do not permit anything running Android on my WiFi network.

why would I do that? Windows devices aren’t inherently “less trustworthy” just because they aren’t apple devices lol.

 

[John Fu]

I was chasing all Apple NEW products, but now, I am not, I still use Mac Pro4.1 to 5.1, and I still use my MacBook Pro 2015 both 13 and 15, What did I do, I upgraded my Mac Pro to 256G RAM, both MacBook pro is 16G, I am pleased about it, I was Windows user, but since APPLE intel base model release, I switch to APPLE until now, Still happy about it, but I do have a Hackintosh both PC and notebook, not sure when will be ending my apple trip, hope still can!

 

[Apollo68]

I'm really tempted to build a new machine in a IBM 5150 case. The work effort would be sizable, since the standard AT motherboard sizing wasn't a thing back then. Still, the nostalgia that the IBM PC brings, is such that it would be cool to have that on my desk

Might be a bit easier to use ITX or mATX given the overall size of the case.

 

[dmr727]

I'm really tempted to build a new machine in a IBM 5150 case. The work effort would be sizable, since the standard AT motherboard sizing wasn't a thing back then. Still, the nostalgia that the IBM PC brings, is such that it would be cool to have that on my desk

Just saw this post - I've been looking to do the same thing for awhile now. Not necessarily a 5150, but something that holds specific nostalgic value for me. I'm thinking 3D printing would really be useful for such a project, and it'd be a way to learn something new.

 

[za9ra22]

why would I do that? Windows devices aren’t inherently “less trustworthy” just because they aren’t apple devices lol.

Well, both true and not. Macs are no less targeted these days, and since the weakest link in just about any system is the user, with Mac users being broadly less 'educated' to threats, they as users are more likely to fall into a trap.

But as much as Microsoft has tightened Windows security and introduced some sandboxing, it is still inherently more vulnerable due to its architecture. When you look at the volume of security-related patches released over the months, it isn't hard to see that there are more routes in than with macOS.

It's only part of the problem of course. Since the bad guys know that, and users can be fooled much more easily than a system can be breached, even a macOS block against code execution doesn't help when the user overrides it.

 

[maflynn]

I'm thinking 3D printing would really be useful for such a project, and it'd be a way to learn something new.

I have a 3d Printer, but I've not gotten to the point where I have any understanding of Fusion 360. That's my next step, but I agree. Having some 3d printed parts to help fit a current day motherboard, power supply and GPU would be beneficial

 

[maflynn]

Might be a bit easier to use ITX or mATX given the overall size of the case.

No question, but either way the holes, do not line up for the stand offs.

 

[Apollo68]

Well, both true and not. Macs are no less targeted these days, and since the weakest link in just about any system is the user, with Mac users being broadly less 'educated' to threats, they as users are more likely to fall into a trap.

But as much as Microsoft has tightened Windows security and introduced some sandboxing, it is still inherently more vulnerable due to its architecture. When you look at the volume of security-related patches released over the months, it isn't hard to see that there are more routes in than with macOS.

It's only part of the problem of course. Since the bad guys know that, and users can be fooled much more easily than a system can be breached, even a macOS block against code execution doesn't help when the user overrides it.

Correct, but my point being is that a windows PC is not instantly a typhoid mary just by virtue of its existence. @dumastudetto's suggestion of putting them on a separate network is frankly a bit silly.