Windows Vista now or wait?

[contoursvt]

Have you even used Vista? I'm typing on a Vista machine right now with an Nvidia 7950GT 512mb card. I game on it all the time as well and use it for photoshop as well. I've never come across any 2D or 3D issues yet. There were some issues when vista was beta and the nvidia drivers were beta.

At my work we built 11 workstations that are Core2 Duos with some low end Nvidia 7100's and they run Vista right now as well. Its been about 1 1/2 months but no issues. None. Zip. There are also plenty of mac users on this forum who are running vista and say its rock solid.

.....like nVidia GPU's?

We can argue this point all day long but the reality is that *many* Windows users are returning to XP after being underwhelmed by Vista.

What does underwhealmed mean? Nobody BUYS a product and just gives up on it because its a little different or because the improvements were not as MUCH as they were hoping for. As long as overall its not worse, then people wont go back. The ones that are switching back immediatly are the pirates who have not paid squat and dont have the patience to deal with change and since they didnt pay any $$, it doesnt matter to them. The legit people will spend time and get to know it and probably the majority of those will stay. I dont know anyone who picked up vista (by spending $$) and went back. They grumbled at first because some menu options changed here and there and some things were different. After a month or two they started liking it more than XP. I will say I like it more than XP after using it for a while. At first I was undecided because they changed a few too many things for me but I went through that phase when I switched from 2K to XP as well.

 

[contoursvt]

Maybe because you dont have enough first hand experience with Windows and just want to believe what ever you want. Lots has changed since the days of windows95 you know To read more about vista please visit http://www.microsoft.com/vista

Thanks

Why am I getting the distinct feeling that if I click on any hyperlink you may post it will lead me to http://www.microsoft.com

 

[skinnylegs]

To read more about vista please visit http://www.microsoft.com/vista

Ha! I knew that was coming. LOL I have no doubt that your MS credentials are bigger than my MS credentials but I *do* have a fair amount of experience with Windows as I am a relatively new switcher. I actually still have a Windows rig because I am an avid gamer.

I really really don't want to turn this into an OS X vs. Windows thread. Really I don't. That said, I have noticed a lot of 'peeps regretting moving from XP to Vista. Heck even c/net wrote this yesterday.....

Dear CNET members,
Happy Friday everyone! This week's question from Franklin is probably what a lot folks are experiencing. You went out and bought a new PC with Windows Vista preloaded on it and came to quickly realize that some of your favorite programs and peripherals aren't compatible with the new operating system. And Franklin, I don't blame you one bit for being frustrated and wanting to revert to XP. But before you take on the task of going back to XP, there are a lot of members who suggest giving Vista a chance, to see if any of the software or hardware that you use have updates to them that will make them compatible with Vista. If that fails, talk to the PC manufacturer. Maybe the company will work something out with you by giving you an XP disc in place of Vista. Because ultimately, if you are going back to XP using your recovery disc from your old computer--either it won't work or it will cause you more of an headache attempting to do so. The bottom line is you will most likely have to fork out some dough to buy Windows XP outright again. On a side note, Dell recently announced it will be bringing back XP on some home systems because of the number of complaints by consumers--so talk to your PC manufacturer, and maybe the company will be able to work with you.

 

[contoursvt]

Ya but the the change in the Apple community from OS9 to OSX was even greater and even more people uneasy at first. I suppose you conveniently forgot that Also I dont know what programs would be incompatible with vista but my boss is now on vista and she's still using Lotus smartsuit 2000 and some file manager called powerdesk which was from 2001 or so and even they work ok. These are 6-7 year old programs that are fine.

Here is what I found doesnt work
-old burning software (really old I mean) but who cares since new hardware come with new burners that come with software. Plus really old software wont support new burners anyway even with updates. Plus who will upgrade to vista on really old hardware. Anyway so really old burning software....

-old antivirus software - this should be a no no in windows land anyway plus most are on a yearly renewal anyway and some are free so they can just download the latest installers anyway

-old drivers for supported hardware. Naturally an XP video driver is not going to work well or at all on vista so people who tried that and ran into trouble deserve it.

Ummm ya thats about all. I'm currently running Office 2000 and office 2003 on two boxes running vista. I'm running Nero 6 which was not recommended because the audio ripping feature is not compatible but I dont care. I'm running winamp 2.8 (god how old is that!), Photoshop 6 and other assorted old stuff. I'm even running Vista 64 bit which is even less compatible with stuff.

Also most of the complaining where right at the begining when most software had not released a free update to fix any vista issues. Most have now so you'll be finding much less complaints as time goes on.

Ha! I knew that was coming. LOL I have no doubt that your MS credentials are bigger than my MS credentials but I *do* have a fair amount of experience with Windows as I am a relatively new switcher. I actually still have a Windows rig because I am an avid gamer.

I really really don't want to turn this into an OS X vs. Windows thread. Really I don't. That said, I have noticed a lot of 'peeps regretting moving from XP to Vista. Heck even c/net wrote this yesterday.....

 

[matthew24]

If it comes to comparing OS's the analogy of cars is often used. In this thread I got the feeling that you could compare some Windows users to those car lovers who are really devoted to oldtimers, as for me I like to see them but prefer not to use them.

 

[ImageWrangler]

old antivirus software - this should be a no no in windows land anyway plus most are on a yearly renewal anyway and some are free so they can just download the latest installers anyway

Wait, why would you need antivirus software? Oh, right, you're running Windows, silly me. Had you been using OS X you wouldn't need to.

And odd you calling out Mac fanboys in this thread when you're so clearly a Microsoft fanboy... pot, meet kettle, kettle... pot.

I use actually Vista, XP, and OS X... and Vista has issues with even recently bought printers and some other unexpected issues. We've got a great, robust IT department who've ran Vista through the ringer and came to the conclusion after finding a lot of errors, some under the hood (which, I'm assuming your just an average ordinary user with very little code-base knowledge), Vista's got issues, like XP release-type issues. For that reason the decision was made to not implement or support it, and this is by a bunch of hardcore, Windows certified people. Which I'm sure you'd argue against, but doing so and if you're not MSCed, sorry, but you got no cred in my book to extol virtues for which you may not know some rudimentary underpinnings.

Which isn't to say Vista wont get there, whomever upthread mentioned the comarison to OS X 10.0 was astute, it's a bit like that, though I'd say 10.0 was a worse. Still, Vista at this young stage should only be advsised for the people who like the "oooh" "ahhh" factor, not that perhaps there's anything wrong with that. But for the layperson, strong advice from around the web, experts, etc., unless you really need Vista for some reason (and can't think of one) stick with XP. Yeah it's kinda outdated but it's got most the issues worked out of it (well, as many issues as one can work out of anything produced out of Redmond). Stick with XP.

Better yet, run OS X Tiger for everything is possible and Windows only if you have to.

 

[contoursvt]

Sorry but I'm not a fanboy because I was being objective about both OS's, not just blindly throwing pot shots. You just think I'm a fanboy becuase I have a positve view of Windows and vista thats all. I've got an older mac at home running OSX (mind you its older 10.3.9 - cant update it because newer updates break the adaptec SCSI support which is the boot drive). I also have run Linux and for years run OS/2. I have my MCSE (2000) and am part of the I.T. department. In fact I still have OS/2 running in a virtual machine (MS virtual PC). I also have SUSE and an ancient version of Redhat running virtually.

I never claimed you dont need to run AV and never compared it to OSX in that way did I? Trying to twist words or what? Also speaking of AV. On my personal computer at home, I have not run AV on my main box for 3 years now. Most of that while I was on XP and now on vista. Dont need AV as long as you watch where you go, have a firewall locking down all ports in/out going that you dont need and making sure you're patched...oh and not blindingly opening attachments or clicking links to mystery sites.

I dont run OSX as my main box because I want more options when it comes to hardware. I want to build my own for much less thanks. I dont want an imac and I dont want a mac mini and I dont feel like forking over for a super expensive 8 core box with limited memory bandwidth. I'd much rather build a tower with 2 cores which is more than enough power and spend the rest on 15K SCSI drives which make much more performance impact on daily usage (ie super low seek times) and spend more on RAM. Thats why.

I also dont want to run OSX because I do enjoy playing video games from time to time and many are not native and I'm not going to fork more $$ for a license of windows in addition to what I spent on a mac so I can play games.

I'll just keep my B&W G3 for my secondary machine until Apple sees fit to say its obsolete and drops support 100% in terms of the OS on it and then it will be my last box. It may seem like i'm bitter and I am. I've lost a few good apple machines IMO prematurely due to lack of support or options for going to the next apple OS. I have Vista MSDN version running on a PIII 550 test box in the office with 768mb RAM, 40gig drive and a radeon 7500 video card. Fully usable and all hardware working fine. Its got office 2000 installed on it by the way which had some quirks initially but sorted out. Mostly tested older apps on this older box. Worst case scenario as far as user upgrades go. So far so good.

....so go ahead and call me a fanboy if you like and try and knock me down but truth is I have enough experience with hardware and software and been around and used everything under the sun so ya I'm going to be opinionated. PS. I still have not seen anything 'concrete' from what you said. You talk about expert this and certified that but you really have not said anything or showed anything.

For 99% of people, vista will be fine, even now. For a small minority running older or custom apps which may not be compatible with vista...well thats bad for them but then again, the same could be said for any OS that is upgraded at any point be it OSX, Windows, Linux..etc. If someone is buying an OS right now and deciding between vista or XP...unless they have to, there is no need to stick with XP. Thing will only shift in vista's favor as time goes on.

Wait, why would you need antivirus software? Oh, right, you're running Windows, silly me. Had you been using OS X you wouldn't need to.

And odd you calling out Mac fanboys in this thread when you're so clearly a Microsoft fanboy... pot, meet kettle, kettle... pot.

I use actually Vista, XP, and OS X... and Vista has issues with even recently bought printers and some other unexpected issues. We've got a great, robust IT department who've ran Vista through the ringer and came to the conclusion after finding a lot of errors, some under the hood (which, I'm assuming your just an average ordinary user with very little code-base knowledge), Vista's got issues, like XP release-type issues. For that reason the decision was made to not implement or support it, and this is by a bunch of hardcore, Windows certified people. Which I'm sure you'd argue against, but doing so and if you're not MSCed, sorry, but you got no cred in my book to extol virtues for which you may not know some rudimentary underpinnings.

Which isn't to say Vista wont get there, whomever upthread mentioned the comarison to OS X 10.0 was astute, it's a bit like that, though I'd say 10.0 was a worse. Still, Vista at this young stage should only be advsised for the people who like the "oooh" "ahhh" factor, not that perhaps there's anything wrong with that. But for the layperson, strong advice from around the web, experts, etc., unless you really need Vista for some reason (and can't think of one) stick with XP. Yeah it's kinda outdated but it's got most the issues worked out of it (well, as many issues as one can work out of anything produced out of Redmond). Stick with XP.

Better yet, run OS X Tiger for everything is possible and Windows only if you have to.

 

[matthew24]

'Sorry but I'm not a fanboy because I was being objective about both OS's, not just blindly throwing pot shots.'

Well you do not 'have a negative attitude towards Vista', that sure is your right to say, that does not make your opinion 'objective', you are actual being subjective.

My opinion is subjective as well and I do defer completely with your opinion on Vista. ( I do Windows XP support and did some fiddling with Vista, it just does not feel right, MS tried to improve on a wrong choice of concept/architecture which is hardly possible. )

 

[Queso]

Ya but the the change in the Apple community from OS9 to OSX was even greater and even more people uneasy at first. I suppose you conveniently forgot that

Of course there were problems, which is why Apple supplied all Macs as dual-boot systems with OS9 as the default OS from March 2001 to January 2002, and still supplied bootable OS9 with all new Macs until January 2003.

In contrast, Microsoft have demanded their OEMs supply everything pre-loaded with Vista and pushed it onto users before it's finished. Not the same thing at all.

 

[skinnylegs]

Gee whiz!

All I was trying to point out is the fact that many Windows users are returning to XP (and they are). I also pointed out that even major manufacturers are giving people the option of installing XP instead of Vista because of consumer demand (and they are).

Read into that what you will but it is what it is.....

Now, if you want my opinion, I don't see any compelling reason to upgrade from XP to Vista other than the fact that XP will eventually not be supported and that for me is not reason enough. Stability? Hell....I don't know about you but I never had any stability issues with XP so what does Vista have to offer me over-and-above what I already have? Flip 3D is 'kinda cool but it's certainly not something I'd upgrade my OS for! Aero? It reminds me of a bad Windowblinds theme and I'm not alone in this feeling. Did I miss anything there? BTW....don't throw some esoteric geek mumbo jumbo that doesn't mean jack *&$% to me or 99% of other computer users.

If you look at my previous posts I never said that Vista doesn't run OK for most people. I did say that it was an immature OS and I stand by that assertion. MS released Vista without driver support from quite a few major hardware manufacturers and they pushed it out the door after years of delay and stripping it down from what it was suppose to be.

So.....where is that compelling reason to upgrade?

 

[contoursvt]

Well I know for myself, there were no "compelling" reasons to upgrade. it was mostly out of curiosity. I am just fine using XP or even Win2k. Having said that, I'm quite fine with 10.2.x as an OS so for me, 10.3 or even 10.4 offer no compelling reasons to upgrade either. They all do what I want.

Now as far as things I kinda like in vista over XP. I can list them.

-more tightly integraded windows updates...mind you some wont like this because you cant really select what updates you want or dont want but it all seems to happen in the background without any user intervention on my part - most times.

-I like the "complete PC backup" which is essentially a disk imaging software built in - like Carbon copy cloner or Norton Ghost.

-I like the way superfetch works. It truely does make the computer much more responsive if you have lots of RAM

-Built in image viewing and thumbnailing is better than on XP

-Recovery console and functions are nicer - I have not had to use it but I did look at them

-I like the fact that when you install, its pretty much installing everything and you're just enabling and disabling features. Saves ever having to pull out the install CD or copying the i386 folder to the computer. Yes its a much bigger install but you know, drive space is cheap these days so it doesnt matter unless the computer has a drive smaller than say 60gig.

-It does look nicer than XP. I'm not one to usually care but I have come to like it.




Things I do not like so far but can live with.

-UAC - it does sometimes get in the way but mostly when I'm first setting up a computer. Once its set up its all good

-Control panel is way too cluttered with stuff.

 

[skinnylegs]

Well I know for myself, there were no "compelling" reasons to upgrade. it was mostly out of curiosity. I am just fine using XP or even Win2k. Having said that, I'm quite fine with 10.2.x as an OS so for me, 10.3 or even 10.4 offer no compelling reasons to upgrade either. They all do what I want.

Now as far as things I kinda like in vista over XP. I can list them.

-more tightly integraded windows updates...mind you some wont like this because you cant really select what updates you want or dont want but it all seems to happen in the background without any user intervention on my part - most times.

-I like the "complete PC backup" which is essentially a disk imaging software built in - like Carbon copy cloner or Norton Ghost.

-I like the way superfetch works. It truely does make the computer much more responsive if you have lots of RAM

-Built in image viewing and thumbnailing is better than on XP

-Recovery console and functions are nicer - I have not had to use it but I did look at them

-I like the fact that when you install, its pretty much installing everything and you're just enabling and disabling features. Saves ever having to pull out the install CD or copying the i386 folder to the computer. Yes its a much bigger install but you know, drive space is cheap these days so it doesnt matter unless the computer has a drive smaller than say 60gig.

-It does look nicer than XP. I'm not one to usually care but I have come to like it.




Things I do not like so far but can live with.

-UAC - it does sometimes get in the way but mostly when I'm first setting up a computer. Once its set up its all good

-Control panel is way too cluttered with stuff.

I respect everything you just said. Now that we have that out of the way.....it's Saturday, can we go meet up and have a beer or something?

 

[contoursvt]

Haha.. Ya its all good. Well I'm in Toronto so if any of you guys are up here and wanna do beer...or beer and hot wings (mmmm) I'm up for it anytime. LOL.

 

[skinnylegs]

Damn! Almost makes me want to hop on a plane! Hehehe. BTW....I'm in San Diego and ditto. Bring your swim suit 'cause the pool is 88 degrees!

 

[matthew24]

"-I like the "complete PC backup" which is essentially a disk imaging software built in - like Carbon copy cloner or Norton Ghost.

-I like the way superfetch works. It truly does make the computer much more responsive if you have lots of RAM (>!?<)

-Recovery console and functions are nicer - I have not had to use it but I did look at them'

These are only features (may I add UAC) that try to cover up a poorly designed OS. Well at least MS has a master recovery plan ready.

OSX does not require those features in the first place. (Security is an integral part of the OS already)

 

[skinnylegs]

"-I like the "complete PC backup" which is essentially a disk imaging software built in - like Carbon copy cloner or Norton Ghost.

-I like the way superfetch works. It truly does make the computer much more responsive if you have lots of RAM (>!?<)

-Recovery console and functions are nicer - I have not had to use it but I did look at them'

These are only features (may I add UAC) that try to cover up a poorly designed OS. Well at least MS has a master recovery plan ready.

OSX does not require those features in the first place. (Security is an integral part of the OS already)

I don't think Mat is 'gonna be joining us for that beer, Contour.

 

[contoursvt]

Right because OSX is bulletproof and never does anything wrong. LOL
http://images.google.ca/images?gbv=...=1&ct=result&cd=1&q=OS+X+kernel+panic&spell=1

Also I'm sure carbon copy cloner exists because nobody on OSX ever needs to recover from anything. Get off your high horse already. LOL

"-I like the "complete PC backup" which is essentially a disk imaging software built in - like Carbon copy cloner or Norton Ghost.

-I like the way superfetch works. It truly does make the computer much more responsive if you have lots of RAM (>!?<)

-Recovery console and functions are nicer - I have not had to use it but I did look at them'

These are only features (may I add UAC) that try to cover up a poorly designed OS. Well at least MS has a master recovery plan ready.

OSX does not require those features in the first place. (Security is an integral part of the OS already)

 

[matthew24]

<Quote> I don't think Mat is 'gonna be joining us for that beer, Contour. </Quote>


Well I would not mind. Anyway I won't drive that donkey again!

 

[contoursvt]

Well its still all good. Too bad everyone is far apart. Its nice for everyone to get together from time to time for some drinks and light debating. We'll just make sure the chairs are bolted down so after a few beers if an OSX vs Windows debate comes up, nothing ends up being thrown

 

[skinnylegs]

We'll just make sure the chairs are bolted down so after a few beers if an OSX vs Windows debate comes up, nothing ends up being thrown

Eh....after a few beers I can't really pick up much anyway. LOL

 

[matthew24]

Cheers

 

[4JNA]

Have anyone run Windows Vista Ultimate version on Mac Pro 2.6GHz with only 1GB of Ram? Will my Mac Pro run Windows Vista fine? Many have suggested 2GB, but why so much?

Vista won't display correctly on the Mac Pro with only 1gb of ram. 7300/1900 doesn't make a difference. the 5000 series chipset on the motherboard/logic board doesn't have enough memory resources when running vista with only 1gb and your display will be 800x600 at 4bit color. not pretty.

you can go into the hardware manager and disable the x16 slot which will get vista to vga, but sllloooooowwww safemode like graphics.

either get more memory, or run xp. period.

 

[Willis]

this thread got ugly quick!

 

[sushi]

Ya but the the change in the Apple community from OS9 to OSX was even greater and even more people uneasy at first.

While people were uneasy to try out Mac OS X, Apple did a much better job hardware compatibility wise. Older Mac hardware runs Tiger just fine.

To give you one example, I am running Tiger on a PM933 which was purchased in 2002. It still boots into Mac OS 9 (not Classic) and will run Tiger just fine.

I have not upgraded the Video card or CPU.

Now how many PCs built in 2002 (5 years ago) can run Vista without significant upgrading?

In other words, if I was still running Mac OS 9 and wanted to try out Tiger, I could purchase Tiger for less than $100 and try it out. If I don't like it, I am only out less than $100.

Also I'm sure carbon copy cloner exists because nobody on OSX ever needs to recover from anything.

Only HD failures!

 

[Cheffy Dave]

Vista??

For my 3 cents, I have XP on 2 desktops and a Toshiba Laptop. I'll NEVER go to Vista. My PC's are going out with XP. My next OS will be Leopard, and it will be on a Mac Book, as soon as the newest Intel Chips are out . Tell you anything?. One one machine 212 updates, patches,AND SECURITY FIXES
YOU can have Vista! I'm out!!!