MP 7,1 With XDR Display, Adobe Apps run even worse!

[chfilm]

So, I just got my XDR glossy Display today (was the right choice!) and I can report back that all the Adobe apps that previously on my DELL 5k displays weren't running great, are running even worse on that bigger canvas. They really just seem unable to push big amounts of pixels around. I didn't think that it could get worse than on the 5ks, but here we go.
Premiere, Lightroom, After Effects UIs are just insanely stuttery and sluggish.

It's really disappointing, it saddens the happiness about that GORGEOUS new display a bit. But hell, another reason to move to Resolve!

 

[Philllllip]

Yup,Lightroom the biggest offender for me. I have a £12k Mac Pro and the XDR ( nano, definitely the right choice! ) and Lightroom performance is crap!! I have to use Adobe bridge to choose quickly the photos that I am then going to edit in Lightroom because Lightroom is simple awful at quickly flicking between the photos! and they are only 18mp each also! Its simply the hi res screen that is the problem. Adobe GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

 

[Average Pro]

Phillllllllllip,
Could you please post your 7,1 specs?
I see chfilm (Mac Pro 7.1 16 core 3,2 GHz, 192 GB RAM, 1TB SSD, Vega II)

 

[jasonmvp]

It's really disappointing, it saddens the happiness about that GORGEOUS new display a bit. But hell, another reason to move to Resolve!

Don't forget about the cooooooookieeeeees over here. Trust me. It's... better.

 

[Philllllip]

Phillllllllllip,
Could you please post your 7,1 specs?
I see chfilm (Mac Pro 7.1 16 core 3,2 GHz, 192 GB RAM, 1TB SSD, Vega II)

HI, It's the 16 core, 96 gig, 32 single Vega II, 4TB.

 

[bsbeamer]

There are reports on other forums that SOME of the UI issues are related to the VEGA GPUs, not the XDR display and/or software. macOS itself is supposed to be driven by METAL for its own UI (at least in some capacity) and there appears to be a conflict with the GPU/driver within several applications that presents when the software also tries to access the GPU's METAL functions for acceleration while also driving HiDPI display. Bug reports have been filed. If you're experiencing, suggest you also file.

Personally believe this at least related to the same METAL issues and bugs with the AMD 5XXX series drivers in Catalina, but it would signal a larger issue with the OS itself as it relates to METAL and how it handles METAL within applications. Would also explain several other METAL related issues in Catalina.

Some who have openly complained have been told to expect a firmware update for the XDR at or around the same time as the 10.15.4 release. Unsure when that is or what it might address. Know additional software functionality is planned.

 

[chfilm]

There are reports on other forums that SOME of the UI issues are related to the VEGA GPUs, not the XDR display and/or software. macOS itself is supposed to be driven by METAL for its own UI (at least in some capacity) and there appears to be a conflict with the GPU/driver within several applications that presents when the software also tries to access the GPU's METAL functions for acceleration while also driving HiDPI display. Bug reports have been filed. If you're experiencing, suggest you also file.

Personally believe this at least related to the same METAL issues and bugs with the AMD 5XXX series drivers in Catalina, but it would signal a larger issue with the OS itself as it relates to METAL and how it handles METAL within applications. Would also explain several other METAL related issues in Catalina.

Some who have openly complained have been told to expect a firmware update for the XDR at or around the same time as the 10.15.4 release. Unsure when that is or what it might address. Know additional software functionality is planned.

Hmmmmm could be an explanation but sounds unreasonable since the UI was sluggish before as well on the old trashcan, and is also on iMac Pro’s for example..
I think it’s just adobe’s rotten core code.

 

[Adult80HD]

IMO this has nothing to do with Metal, the Apple drivers, etc. This is an Adobe problem, simple as that. Just go and search on the topic--it's been turning up for literally YEARS now, starting back with the very first high-resolution Retina displays. It happens on PCs with high-resolution displays as well. Lightroom in particular seems to really struggle with anything above a 4K display.

I've had various issues with Lightroom and this sluggish performance with my 2015 and 2017 MBP's with the LG 5K UltraFine, and that was going back several versions of both Lightroom and MacOS.

 

[OkiRun]

95% of the time my office uses the Window PCs to run Adobe Suite Apps and Macs to run FCPX. Color grading can be done effectively using Davinici Resolve on both types of operating systems from my experience, although Apple improved color grading in FCPX just enough to handle some low grade jobs.

 

[chfilm]

IMO this has nothing to do with Metal, the Apple drivers, etc. This is an Adobe problem, simple as that. Just go and search on the topic--it's been turning up for literally YEARS now, starting back with the very first high-resolution Retina displays. It happens on PCs with high-resolution displays as well. Lightroom in particular seems to really struggle with anything above a 4K display.

I've had various issues with Lightroom and this sluggish performance with my 2015 and 2017 MBP's with the LG 5K UltraFine, and that was going back several versions of both Lightroom and MacOS.

Did you fully make the switch to capture1 Now? I find lightroom really unusable in the XDR

 

[zhpenn]

It is too painful to switch to C1, have to stay with LR.
I just upgrade to ultrawide 3840 x 1600 38inch form 2560x 1600 30 inch , never dare to upgrade to 4k+ hi-dpi monitor, just because of Lightroom.

 

[Adult80HD]

Did you fully make the switch to capture1 Now? I find lightroom really unusable in the XDR

No, there were just way too many differences in workflow for me and the catalog system of LR is so embedded in my file management that it's not an easy switch.

I'm used to the laggy browsing of my library as I've been dealing with that for years. It's no worse than it was with the 5K UltraFine. I don't do a lot of browsing that way as I tend to spend most of my time editing individual files. The latest update of LR has added GPU acceleration to more of the editing tools, and that has actually helped speed up some of the problem areas as well.

 

[Krevnik]

Honestly, Adobe's legacy code problem is one reason I've been using Affinity Photo and have been trying to back out of the Adobe ecosystem for a while. I can pretty much do it as it's "only" a hobby for me, and Adobe's pricing is pants, but it does hurt not having a good DAM replacement.

Although I do wonder if anyone's looked at the CPU/GPU usage by Lightroom? How much of it is still single-threaded and ignoring Metal, I wonder?

The latest update of LR has added GPU acceleration to more of the editing tools, and that has actually helped speed up some of the problem areas as well.

Good to know.

 

[Adult80HD]

Honestly, Adobe's legacy code problem is one reason I've been using Affinity Photo and have been trying to back out of the Adobe ecosystem for a while. I can pretty much do it as it's "only" a hobby for me, and Adobe's pricing is pants, but it does hurt not having a good DAM replacement.

Although I do wonder if anyone's looked at the CPU/GPU usage by Lightroom? How much of it is still single-threaded and ignoring Metal, I wonder?



Good to know.

I've done a ton of tracking with activity monitor and some third-party apps and the vast majority of what's going on in Lightroom is still just single-threaded. Now, there are some things that will be difficult to impossible to parallelize, but the fact remains that there is tons of room for performance improvements in the app. The fact that they only started brining GPU acceleration to any functions in 2019 is pretty sad, for example.

The things that have been parallelized are quite fast and scale very nicely: Examples include importing files and rendering previews and exports to other file formats. You can see those grab and saturate as many cores/threads as possible, and they show near linear scaling with core count. Other activities scale up to about 6-8 cores and then seem to stall out--my guess there is that Adobe did a round of optimization in the past when that was considered a "high core count" and they need to do some more work going forward.

AFAIK, they still aren't using Metal in Lightroom at all; that's apparently a future release. Maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong?

 

[Krevnik]

AFAIK, they still aren't using Metal in Lightroom at all; that's apparently a future release. Maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong?

At least for the classic 8.4 FAQ they say it requires a GPU supported by “Metal or OpenGL 3.3” on Mac, which I took to mean they will use Metal if available.

Lightroom Classic GPU FAQ

Learn how to use Adobe Lightroom Classic GPU (graphics processor acceleration, graphics card, or video card) to speed up or optimize Lightroom Classic performance.

helpx.adobe.com

But yeah, it’s clear you can get wicked fast perf via Metal compute or multi-threading. They just haven’t adopted it all that widely.

 

[Average Pro]

Could you please post a link to these reports (on other forums)? I'm keeping an eye on all comments related to LR (and other Adobe products) and the XDR.

There are reports on other forums that SOME of the UI issues are related to the VEGA GPUs, not the XDR display and/or software. macOS itself is supposed to be driven by METAL for its own UI (at least in some capacity) and there appears to be a conflict with the GPU/driver within several applications that presents when the software also tries to access the GPU's METAL functions for acceleration while also driving HiDPI display. Bug reports have been filed. If you're experiencing, suggest you also file.

Personally believe this at least related to the same METAL issues and bugs with the AMD 5XXX series drivers in Catalina, but it would signal a larger issue with the OS itself as it relates to METAL and how it handles METAL within applications. Would also explain several other METAL related issues in Catalina.

Some who have openly complained have been told to expect a firmware update for the XDR at or around the same time as the 10.15.4 release. Unsure when that is or what it might address. Know additional software functionality is planned.

 

[Average Pro]

I recently discovered that when I go through photos in LR (other than the painfully slow response time) that if I use two fingers on the Magic Trackpad there is no delay. The photos switch as fast as I move my fingers up and down (Michael Scott: That's what she said!). If I utilize the back and forward arrows on the keyboard - deathly slow. I so badly want to dump Adobe.

 

[Theophilos]

+1 for Capture One. It runs pretty swiftly on my Mac Pro.

There are enough viable alternatives to Adobe software now that makes canceling Creative Cloud a reality for many. Especially when it comes to the new direction in imaging, AI, I feel Adobe is no longer the clear leader. The Luminar, Topaz, and Pixelmator Pro apps are really achieving great results for their users through AI and machine learning.

Personally, I am waiting for Affinity Publisher to support footnotes and endnotes before canceling Creative Cloud. I’m still reliant on InDesign for book design, but once Publisher can do footnotes, it’s goodbye Creative Cloud as I don’t use any of the other apps.

 

[citysnaps]

+1 for Capture One. It runs pretty swiftly on my Mac Pro.

There are enough viable alternatives to Adobe software now that makes canceling Creative Cloud a reality for many. Especially when it comes to the new direction in imaging, AI, I feel Adobe is no longer the clear leader. The Luminar, Topaz, and Pixelmator Pro apps are really achieving great results for their users through AI and machine learning.

Personally, I am waiting for Affinity Publisher to support footnotes and endnotes before canceling Creative Cloud. I’m still reliant on InDesign for book design, but once Publisher can do footnotes, it’s goodbye Creative Cloud as I don’t use any of the other apps.

For me...the problem switching away from Lightroom is my large library of photos processed non-destructively in LR over the years since LR was released. Until my edits can automatically transfer over (non-destructively) to another DAM/Edit application, I'll be sticking with LR. There's no way I'm going to re-edit 100k-200k photos to another application.

Also, having been on LR CC for a year after holding out for awhile, I've come to like LR even more with the updates. $10/month for me is a bargain.

 

[timerickson]

Experiencing extremely poor performance as well, like literally seeing 5 FPS when scrolling the grid view. Mac Pro 2019, 12-core, 80GB RAM, on Catalina, tried with both 580X and W5700X. Same issue on both GPUs. I also have this issue with Ableton Live 10. I’m wondering if there is something underlying technology they both use. All other apps run flawlessly, eg. FCP X, Logic X, etc.

 

[bsbeamer]

Get on Abelton 11 beta and see if it fixes or addresses. If not, report issues ASAP.

Live 11 Beta Release Notes | Ableton

www.ableton.com

 

[Average Pro]

Get on Abelton 11 beta and see if it fixes or addresses. If not, report issues ASAP.

Live 11 Beta Release Notes | Ableton

www.ableton.com

In response to your first sentence; Huh?
In response to your second sentence; [insert laughing emoji].

 

[bsbeamer]

I also have this issue with Ableton Live 10.

Get on Abelton 11 beta and see if it fixes or addresses.

 

[timerickson]

Oh trust me, I tried Live 11. No improvement. I feel like the only person to own an PD XDR and need Ableton Live daily. This issue has been driving me insane.

 

[Freeangel1]

95% of the time my office uses the Window PCs to run Adobe Suite Apps and Macs to run FCPX. Color grading can be done effectively using Davinici Resolve on both types of operating systems from my experience, although Apple improved color grading in FCPX just enough to handle some low grade jobs.

So Adobe APPS run fine on a PC with a high Resolution monitor?
Has anybody Tested Adobe APPS on Bootcamp on a Mac Pro using a hi Res Monitor?

Your statement 95 percent of the Office uses PC's to run Adobe Suite APPS seems very common these days.
I use to work in IT for a large organization and the graphic design Dept ditched all their Macs in favor of PC's

I'm gonna do the same. Build an AMD Threadripper system.

I don't think APPLE switching to ARM is going to slow big corporations dumping their Macs for PC's in Graphic Design.