MP 7,1 Worth purchasing Mac Pro 7,1 or wait?

[subroutines]

I am curious to know some thoughts from folks about the pending Silicon chip-powered Mac Pro and its impact on the intel-based Mac Pro 7,1. I am thinking of upgrading from current Mac Pro to next one but in terms of performance I was wondering if getting 7,1 be worth getting or would it be not worth it if there is Silicon (8,1) Mac Pro. If there is a Silcion Mac Pro would the 7,1 be worth it or somewhat pointless?

 

[Matty_TypeR]

Until the new mac pro launches with its spec's its hard to know how people will feel towards it and its performance will no doubt be very well tested, but wait for independent reviews and bench marks don't rely on Apple selected tests to show it off. Also you would want to know how upgradable it would be in the future.

Best to wait and see i would say. as 7.1's will also come down in price.

 

[prefuse07]

It's not just about being the shiny new thing either. ARM architecture has very low library support from existing software. When we think about gaming and legacy software, it gets even thinner.

This is one of the things that the Mac Studio iSheep got caught up in, especially with Apple's doctored benchmarks, touting "look, it's soooo much more powerful than the 7,1 and discrete GPUs.... yada yada yada". But hey, sheep do love shiny new things!

I personally would recommend staying away from apple silicon until at least more software gets ported (if at all).

The question you should ask yourself is this: Does my workflow require software that does not run on ARM architecture?

If the answer to that question is yes, then the 7,1 is (likely) the last Mac you will buy (again, until more things are ported over).

 

[rpmurray]

One thing we do know for sure is that the RAM and SSD will not be upgradable. I'm dubious that Apple will even provide any slots for graphics cards and other expansion. Right now my crystal ball is telling me it's going to be as locked down as the Mac Pro 6,1 Trashcan and the Studio Mac. So we'll get more cores, more RAM and more storage (with eye watering Apple prices for all of it) and most likely more ports, and that's it.

 

[StuAff]

Worst time to buy a 7,1 is right now. We have nothing even slightly concrete about what Apple might launch- and it might not get a sneak peek at WWDC, Kuo Ming-Chi reckons 2023. Might even be a Xeon refresh version first. It's all speculation & guesswork at this point.

 

[ahurst]

One thing we do know for sure is that the RAM and SSD will not be upgradable.

I don't think that's accurate. It's entirely *possible* that they take that approach given the existing M1 lineup, but keep in mind that at the last Apple event they called the M1 Ultra "the last chip in the M1 lineup" within a minute of saying the only Mac left in the ARM transition was the Mac Pro. From the speculation I've read (including from the Ashai Linux team, who are intimately familiar with the architecture and its low-level design), that implies that the Mac Pro will get its own special class of Apple Silicon chip with a less unified architecture more suitable for high-end customizable workstation use.

One of the more interesting ideas I've heard thrown around is that the ARM Mac Pro could take a two-tiered approach to RAM, with high-performance M1-style unified RAM built into the logic board in addition to normal, slower ECC DDR5 slots for adding more RAM. It'd basically act as a really fast swap: if the computer runs out of unified RAM, it starts using the DIMMs to pick up the slack.

 

[now i see it]

Buying a 7,1 right now is not a wise choice unless you absolutely need one and can’t wait to see what the 8,1 brings.

But if you’re on a deadline and need the horsepower of a 7,1 right now, buying one now is a reasonable choice.

It’s pretty much a given that if the 8,1 is leaps & bounds faster than the 7,1, the resale prices of 7,1s are going to tank.

 

[StuAff]

Some form of expandable memory is perhaps not a given, but certainly possible, if not likely, if not certain. The MP was already an outlier before the AS transition started, and it's even more so now. Assuming it won't be upgradeable in any or all respects because all the other M series models aren't is flawed. Expandable memory up to 1.5TB, expandable storage, eight PCIE slots, upgradeable graphics,rack option . The AS might lose some capability out of that, but all of it? Makes no sense at all. To go from a machine pointedly designed for and with major input from 'our most demanding pro customers' to one that isn't...seems unlikely. It could be Trashcan 3.0/ a bigger Studio, but I can't imagine the Pro Workflow Team or customers they've talked to would say 'yes please' to that.

 

[mattspace]

One thing we do know for sure is that the RAM and SSD will not be upgradable. I'm dubious that Apple will even provide any slots for graphics cards and other expansion. Right now my crystal ball is telling me it's going to be as locked down as the Mac Pro 6,1 Trashcan and the Studio Mac. So we'll get more cores, more RAM and more storage (with eye watering Apple prices for all of it) and most likely more ports, and that's it.

What we absolutely do not know right now, is anything about what the next Mac Pro will be.

If it is announced, and has no support for off-the-shelf GPUs for display, & user-upgradable standard format RAM - then personally, I'll do the numbers on buying a 7,1.

 

[ahurst]

It’s pretty much a given that if the 8,1 is leaps & bounds faster than the 7,1, the resale prices of 7,1s are going to tank.

Even if the new ARM Mac Pro doesn't fit the OP's needs this is still a great reason to wait: if you end up wanting a 7,1 anyway you'll probably be able to get one for a lot cheaper once used models start to flood the market.

 

[R3k]

7,1 Macs are going pretty cheap on eBay at the moment. Im seeing 12 cores selling between 3.5k to 5k.

 

[m1maverick]

7,1 Macs are going pretty cheap on eBay at the moment. Im seeing 12 cores selling between 3.5k to 5k.

Where?

 

[prefuse07]

7,1 Macs are going pretty cheap on eBay at the moment. Im seeing 12 cores selling between 3.5k to 5k.

Yeah!

I've been watching a few high spec ones that have ended around the $4,600 - $5,000 mark, so this gives us hope!

Of course, there are still a ton of delusional sellers that are asking >=$10k

 

[Boil]

I am curious to know some thoughts from folks about the pending Silicon chip-powered Mac Pro and its impact on the intel-based Mac Pro 7,1. I am thinking of upgrading from current Mac Pro to next one but in terms of performance I was wondering if getting 7,1 be worth getting or would it be not worth it if there is Silicon (8,1) Mac Pro. If there is a Silcion Mac Pro would the 7,1 be worth it or somewhat pointless?

Since you are on the 6.1 (Trashcan) Mac Pro, there are no PCIe slots to miss, the integrated GPU of a 8.1 ASi Mac Pro should soundly beat the GPU(s) in the 6.1 MP, and your RAM/SSD options would most likely also exceed the capabilities of the 6.1 MP...?

One thing we do know for sure is that the RAM and SSD will not be upgradable. I'm dubious that Apple will even provide any slots for graphics cards and other expansion. Right now my crystal ball is telling me it's going to be as locked down as the Mac Pro 6,1 Trashcan and the Studio Mac. So we'll get more cores, more RAM and more storage (with eye watering Apple prices for all of it) and most likely more ports, and that's it.

Only thing we know for sure is that we know absolutely nothing, but I would expect three or four PCIe slots for all the other things people use them for that are not GPUs...

 

[R3k]

Where?

eBay. Check completed / sold listings in Advanced Search

 

[R3k]

Yeah!

I've been watching a few high spec ones that have ended around the $4,600 - $5,000 mark, so this gives us hope!

Of course, there are still a ton of delusional sellers that are asking >=$10k

Im selling one now and want to say, screw eBay, ha.

If I put my Mac Pro with extras up for $5200 USD......

After fees from eBay and PayPal I take home less than $4500
While the buyer pays sales tax so it ends up costing them approx $5600 depending open where they're from.

Then it costs either of us $160 for shipping on top.

Better I just put it on Craigslist for $4800 and everyone is happier, but no bites yet.

 

[Grumply]

7,1 Macs are going pretty cheap on eBay at the moment. Im seeing 12 cores selling between 3.5k to 5k.

I'd suggest that people be aware that quite a lot of the cheap eBay 7,1s appear to have been upgraded with QS/Engineering Sample CPUs. So caveat emptor.

What doesn't make much sense to me is people selling 24/28-core 7,1s for Mac Studio prices. You've got roughly the same level of CPU power (with the significant GPU advantages of the 7,1), and obviously far better internal storage speeds/capabilities and PCIe expandability. So unless the faster media-engines in the Mac Studio are really going to make immense differences to your workflow, it just doesn't seem worth letting yourself be completed hosed in the sale of the 7,1.

 

[TracerAnalog]

It's not just about being the shiny new thing either. ARM architecture has very low library support from existing software. When we think about gaming and legacy software, it gets even thinner.

This is one of the things that the Mac Studio iSheep got caught up in, especially with Apple's doctored benchmarks, touting "look, it's soooo much more powerful than the 7,1 and discrete GPUs.... yada yada yada". But hey, sheep do love shiny new things!

I personally would recommend staying away from apple silicon until at least more software gets ported.

The question you should ask yourself is this: Does my workflow require software that does not run on ARM architecture?

If the answer to that question is yes, then the 7,1 is (likely) the last Mac you will buy (again, until more things are ported over).

For f*** sake, those sheeple remarks are getting very tiresome…

If you need a new Intel MacPro now, go for it, they’re great machines. The expected Arm MacPro is going to be good as well, but not if you need bootcamp (for example) or any other specific Intel reliant software. Only you know what you need, and you know what the Intel machine will give you.

I went from Intel iMac to M1 Macbook pro, and the transition was… boring. Everything works.

 

[Miha_v]

I'd say if you rely a lot on heavy GPU performance, buying current Mac Pro with Intel & AMD might make more sense. From the test I've seen, Mac studio with M1 Ultra chip performs well, but still can't really compete with a multi-GPU system (what Mac pro supports).

I suppose next Mac pro could pair two M1 ultra chips?

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

I'd say if you rely a lot on heavy GPU performance, buying current Mac Pro with Intel & AMD might make more sense. From the test I've seen, Mac studio with M1 Ultra chip performs well, but still can't really compete with a multi-GPU system (what Mac pro supports).

I suppose next Mac pro could pair two M1 ultra chips?

It can't compete with an AMD 6800xt, which obliterates it.

 

[mattspace]

I half suspect the next AS Mac Pro will support the current MPX GPUs, and all the AS Macs released after its release will re-introduce eGPU, and the M1 macs released prior will just be oddball 1st gen machines.

 

[exoticSpice]

It can't compete with an AMD 6800xt, which obliterates it.

What the ARM Mac Pro is not more of the same GPU cores found it M1 Ultra but a new breed of GPU cores that are faster and more powerful.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

What the ARM Mac Pro is not more of the same GPU cores found it M1 Ultra but a new breed of GPU cores that are faster and more powerful.

Provably wrong. The main 'purpose' is to run graphics, in the case of Apple systems, metal. The M1 ultra gets spanked by over 70% by the 6800xt with normal metal/graphics performance. There are there some very narrow specific use case (narrow benchmarks) the Apple chips will go faster, but they are slower (and apple has been caught making bs cherry picked representations regarding graphics performance) on a general basis.

 

[orionquest]

With WWDC being as close as it is shouldn't this be obvious. Unless you need to upgrade right now then that is your answer.

 

[R3k]

It can't compete with an AMD 6800xt, which obliterates it.

A little on the side, but neither the XTX Radeon RX 6700 XT nor MSI Geforce RTX 3070 TI I purchased actually fit inside the 2019 Mac Pro- The large heatsinks stop the cards sliding into the "Stability" guide grooves at the back of the card.

Huge oversight by Apple on that one. Those cards would need to be modded to fit.