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MP 7,1 Worth purchasing Mac Pro 7,1 or wait?
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AFAIK macOS doesn't even have drivers for the RX-6700XT anyway, so even if you got it to fit, it still wouldn't work...
Nvidia, that's a whole other story, but I'm sure you know that modern nvidia card don't work on macOS, right?
Furthermore, the fact that the RX-6700XT has been out for this long and still not received driver support should be a little bit telling of apple's intentions around discrete GPUs, should it not? Let's not forget what happened with them and nvidia... they straight up just dropped support.
I know this is speculation -- but adding some thought to the discussion at hand!
Interesting. Yeah, I was just going to use them in Bootcamp so didn't check into MacOS compatibility.
I'm pretty sure those cards also fall outside of the PCIe specs. PCIe has a maximum card length of 312.00 mms.
(And the MSI website says their 3070 card is 323mm long. It's not PCIe spec.)
I would definitely wait till WWDC to see if they preview anything. I also agree there could be an Intel refresh if the AS version isn't coming until next year, but hard to say since Apple never updated the 6,1. The 7,1 is going on 3 years old now and I think a lot of people are disappointed it hasn't been getting annual updates like the cMP, except for the GPUs.
I also think the AS version will have upgradeable storage and possibly RAM too. The Mac Studio has storage separate from the SoC. The Mac Pro will too and I think they will offer storage upgrade kits for it like the 7,1.
I also think the AS version will have upgradeable storage and possibly RAM too. The Mac Studio has storage separate from the SoC. The Mac Pro will too and I think they will offer storage upgrade kits for it like the 7,1.
Its how the cards slot in at the back. There is a slit that allows a full size card PCB to slide in half an inch or so, but you can't slide it in when the heatsink is flush with the end of the card.
Sure, they never said they would support it, but they could have better future proofed the slot so it accommodates anything now and in the next few years. Instead, 3rd party manufacturers need to make sure their design fits a Mac Pro if they want to tap into that market. Essentially Apple didn't look ahead enough- Some PCI cards coming out only 3 years after the Mac Pro's release don't fit. Maybe someone would write some flash code for an upcoming GPU series that allows it to run in MacOS, but that won't work cause it won't fit anything except a PC.
I mean the whole promise of the Mac Pro was to give us back utility ?♂️
Thats not how it works. PCIe spec says a brace goes at 312 mm for professional full length cards. Apple put a brace at 312 mm for professional full length cards.
Gaming cards can go longer if they want and break spec so they can shove a few more glowy lights on. But Apple made the right call. They built a Mac that met the specs for professional PCIe full length cards. Not gaming cards. The Mac Pro is not a gaming Mac. It's more important to build something that can properly brace a full length audio card than a gamer card.
Has nothing to do with future proofing. That's the PCIe spec. If Apple hadn't put the brace at 312mm you'd have a bunch of people asking where the brace at 312 mm was for their very expensive audio cards.
What was wrong in what I said? My view that the ARM Mac Pro needs a new GPU arch with faster and better and more cores than the M1 ultra.
I already know the M1 Ultra does not compare to the RX 6800XT in terms of performance.
Sorry if I read your post wrong, but I thought you were asserting that the apple architecture was out-performing the plug in cards. I guess where I take exception is I don't want to depend on apple to find an architecture to compete, I want them to give us slots so we can use the competition.
I suggest you check out the Mac Pro forums with the amount of people putting graphic cards in their cMP computers. "Gaming" cards though though they don't all game. Guess you could also call them "Mining" cards but I guess the Mac Pro wasn't built for mining. The majority of people wanting GPU performance will all go that same direction.
Cards over 312mm have be common since 2012.
A Mac Pro brace fits cards at least 323mm in length. So Apple are already breaking spec
Just not heatsinks at 323mm.
By oversight or by design, I'm sure Apple could have figured out a way to fit large multi space cards and still easily brace 'in spec' ProTools cards and make everyone happy.
Im not really that invested in the issue to be honest, lets agree to disagree.
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It's also not just a Mac Pro issue. A lot of modern gaming GPUs don't fit into other workstations like the HP z840 because their excessive coolers conflict with the machine's expansion card retention system and air baffles.
Amongst gaming GPUs there has been a trend for ever larger GPU coolers, which is driven not by thermal needs but mostly by marketing to the "gaming" and "enthusiast" crowd (i.e., the same target market that wants RGB lighting on everything). This has been increasingly bad with AMD GPUs but in recent years we've seen more and more of these excessive coolers on Nvidia GPUs as well.
Right. Expensive cases (usually for professional workstations) have the braces because they keep cards more secure, keep them from sagging, and keep them from moving if the machine moves. Thats why high end workstations like the Mac Pro or the x840 have them.
Cheaper gamer cases don't have them because they're... cheaper. They're not designing the cases to be forward thinking. They're cutting costs and complications by not adding the braces. But that also means long cards aren't completely secure in gamer cases.
Thats why I called them gamer cards. They're not designing the cards to be put into workstations. They're taking advantage of the shortcuts case makers normally make for gamer PCs. A workstation card would account for the maximum slot length because the braces are extremely common in workstations.
FWIW - I'm not even aware of any PCIe revision coming that changes the slot length. There's nothing forward thinking standard that I'm aware of for Apple to be ready for. PCIe power standards was kind of a not forward thinking flaw of stuff like the 2010 Mac Pro. But there isn't anything similar going on here. Max slot length isn't changing in the future.
Given Intel Macs are still being sold today, I'd imagine that OS updates will be available for quite a few years to come. This isn't like the PPC to Intel transition days, which I believe had new OS support 3 years after the transition. Apple is in a far different position today, with far, far many more folks who have Intel machines during this transition than folks with PPC machines during the last transition. So I'd think the 7,1 would at least get support for another 3 years after discontinuation, but most likely more than that.
How quick normally are Apple at getting 7,1s built and delivered? I ordered one near the start of this month (June) and it's still in processing. Really starting to get desperate for it to arrive.
I have heard rumours of the next one possibly having expansion ability but unfortunately couldn't wait longer.
I have heard rumours of the next one possibly having expansion ability but unfortunately couldn't wait longer.
You may be the only purchaser, worldwide in June.... are you sure they still have any in stock ? Maybe they are making one bespoke for you
Not having the latest OS isn't the end of the road either.......
Supported or not, I am still using my cMP with Mojave.
Did you check the Refurb store.
There where 2 pages of 7.1mp's today (UK).
FYI I have seen some huge bargains on Amazon recently for Mac Pro components.
1.Wheels 75% off
2.8TB SSD 37% off (£1000 cheaper)
3.Vega 2 MPX was much cheaper, but out of stock now
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True. This is also a testament to the expandability of the system that has given it a longevity that their other systems don't have.Not having the latest OS isn't the end of the road either.......
Supported or not, I am still using my cMP with Mojave.
If one is considering at a system like the 7,1, then most likely it is because of a work purpose that is served by more than just sheer computing power. Upgradeable components, far greater expansion, the best cooling for sustained workloads, etc are other things that are of appeal. Ironically the closed system of the 6,1 is in part what doomed it. And the 5,1 has had such a community and longevity simply because of its expandability.
One could argue that Apple silicon changes the game in regards to speed, power in a far more favorable thermal envelope. But if the new 8,1 is indeed a "closed" system like the 6,1, it will follow in the same footsteps as the 6,1. Simply because whatever power this new machine brings doesn't live in a vacuum... the whole Apple eco system will exist on its own silicon too. So as new MBPs and iMacs and Studios come out with better SOCs for less money, people will complain that their Mac Pros can't be upgraded to better last. Hopefully they include some PCIe expansion to at least serve its intended market better like the 7,1.