macOS Write this application for big $$

[superbovine]

Great, a gratuitous personal slur to go with the other highly professional posts you have made here.

Forgive my not associating "Virus1" with "honorable ruler". My comment was that the name Virus1 asking for programmers to work on a secret software project brings up unwanted associations.

And BTW, whether you like me personally or not, if you DON'T have a reasonable business plan when you start doing real business, your project will crash and burn. That's bourne out by thousands upon thousands of failed start-up companies.

don't forgot knows nothing about the software developement cycle.

 

[virus1]

Great, a gratuitous personal slur to go with the other highly professional posts you have made here.

Forgive my not associating "Virus1" with "honorable ruler". My comment was that the name Virus1 asking for programmers to work on a secret software project brings up unwanted associations.

And BTW, whether you like me personally or not, if you DON'T have a reasonable business plan when you start doing real business, your project will crash and burn. That's bourne out by thousands upon thousands of failed start-up companies.

youre not so kind yourself there mr ram. i do admit your methods of insulting me are much more subtle, but hurt just as much nonetheless.

how would you associate virus1 with honerable ruler? what do you think i am going to do? pay some hobbyist developer $15,000 to write a virus? my buisness plan may not be that great, but thats a bit far off.

I think ur just mad because i actually found sombody off of MR. and of course you want to know my idea. FYI: bugging the hell out of me isn't going to do it.

I do have a reasonable buisness plan. and here it is:
-Come up with a good idea for an application: Done
-Figure out a genius ui to go along with it: Done
-Find a cheap developer willing to do the initial writing of it: Done
-Make sure nobody insults and humiliates me in the process of doing the last step: Who cares
-Get the application written: In progress
-Sell the application: Its gonna happen
-Pay back the developer: As soon as enough gets sold
-Make me a bunch of money: Hey, im optimistic

 

[Chaszmyr]

Think you guys could bash Virus1 over the head a little harder? I understand that he didn't present himself with a good business proposal, and the thread title certainly baited flames, but he made his post, said what he had to offer, and if you're not interested you are free to offer input, but be helpful and polite about it.


PS. If you find a developer, and this turns out to be a great project that brings in a boat load of money, I think it would be fair to give the developer a % rather than just $15000.

 

[virus1]

don't forgot knows nothing about the software developement cycle.

don't forgot u knows nothing about english grammars.

everybody here seems to think i don't have model, a plan, any marketing experience, or even a ui. i already have it all taken care of. thanks for double checking, guys

 

[superbovine]

don't forgot u knows nothing about english grammars.

And you are one to talk?

 

[virus1]

And you are one to talk?

it was a form of mockery, genius

 

[CanadaRAM]

Think you guys could bash Virus1 over the head a little harder? I understand that he didn't present himself with a good business proposal, and the thread title certainly baited flames, but he made his post, said what he had to offer, and if you're not interested you are free to offer input, but be helpful and polite about it

We only get to know as much about someone as they post on the forum.

The original poster wrote a title that is deceptive. The original proposition is "Program my idea for free then if I ever sell it I will pay for your programming time".

Then on their very second post, in reply to direct and honest feedback (from a professional in the field he was looking for) this is what he wrote:

"OK. If you get a pro to do the entire thing for me. I'd hire you if u'd show some manners" "good for you.. I would want somone with a little better attitude anyways.." "Gee, thanks, einstein.." "*sigh* another one bites the dust.. lets keep going.."

If we are talking about bashing, I would say Virus took the first swing.

 

[virus1]

We only get to know as much about someone as they post on the forum.

The original poster wrote a title that is deceptive. The original proposition is "Program my idea for free then if I ever sell it I will pay for your programming time".

if somebody made my app, why wouldn't i sell it? i titled the thread to get people to pay attention. I knew people would flame me, but it was worth it, because it worked.

Then on their very second post, in reply to direct and honest feedback (from a professional in the field he was looking for) this is what he wrote:

"OK. If you get a pro to do the entire thing for me. I'd hire you if u'd show some manners" "good for you.. I would want somone with a little better attitude anyways.." "Gee, thanks, einstein.." "*sigh* another one bites the dust.. lets keep going.."

It makes a little more sense with the middle parts.. just trying to keep some humor flowing through these solemn bowels of the forums.

If we are talking about bashing, I would say Virus took the first swing.

 

[CanadaRAM]

everybody here seems to think i don't have model, a plan, any marketing experience, or even a ui. i already have it all taken care of. thanks for double checking, guys

Good for you. You certainly didn't tell us earlier. We only know about you what you chose to tell us - and what you told us would lead any experienced business person to believe that you have not done the basics. I'm still not convinced... a short course at your local community college on how to write a business plan may still be beneficial to you.

Which is why I wrote you a reply (that does not contain a single insult by the way), but does contain the rudiments of the things you need to consider in order to make a business work.

But I obviously wasted my time. You seem inclined to reject any of the actual advice given here by experienced people who have honest opinions and criticisms to offer, and in addition, attacked the people who have given the advice. This is not generally a recommended tactic to gain support and goodwill. Hopefully you will learn the important difference between a criticism and an insult before you have to talk to software executives and bankers.

I am happy for you that you found a programmer. I am apprehensive that the programmer is taking a risk but that's their gig.

And once you sell your 10,000th copy of the application, I will publicly apologise for doubting your idea, and I will buy your product myself.

 

[CanadaRAM]

if somebody made my app, why wouldn't i sell it?

My apologies. I will reword my statement to:
"Program my idea for free then if I succeed in selling enough of the product to turn a profit I will pay for your programming time"

Your desire to sell it is not in question.

Your opportunity, marketing skills, organizational abilities, luck and promotional funding required to make it a commercial success are, however, unknowns.

There is a pervasive myth that excellence is rewarded - The Field of Dreams scenario "Build it and they will come" - the idea that buyers will flock to a product as soon as they see how good it is. If it were true, Apple would have the 96% marketshare.

The ground is littered with great ideas, programs superior to anything on the market, which although brilliant in concept and elegantly executed, never successfully sold.

 

[virus1]

Good for you. You certainly didn't tell us earlier. We only know about you what you chose to tell us - and what you told us would lead any experienced business person to believe that you have not done the basics. I'm still not convinced... a short course at your local community college on how to write a business plan may still be beneficial to you.

Which is why I wrote you a reply (that does not contain a single insult by the way), but does contain the rudiments of the things you need to consider in order to make a business work.

But I obviously wasted my time. You seem inclined to reject any of the actual advice given here by experienced people who have honest opinions and criticisms to offer, and in addition, attacked the people who have given the advice. This is not generally a recommended tactic to gain support and goodwill. Hopefully you will learn the important difference between a criticism and an insult before you have to talk to software executives and bankers.

I am happy for you that you found a programmer. I am apprehensive that the programmer is taking a risk but that's their gig.

And once you sell your 10,000th copy of the application, I will publicly apologise for doubting your idea, and I will buy your product myself.

im sure you will buy it long before then. before i go to bed though, i would like to say a bunch of things:

-Sorry to all about being a bit cocky.
-it was all in good fun, i just got a little carried away
-I am going to reject the person who volunteered to write this app
-I am going to stop hiding behind the fact that i am 13 years old
-Instead, i will learn objective c myself and write the app myself
-i have reconsidered and will likely take more like a year to make

i didn't tell people that im 13 y.o. because people usually don't take me seriously, and i suppose i understand that.

thank you feakbeak for all your support

if anyone is willing to donate thier time to the app, the idea is an application that will allow people without coding experience to develop full featured applications harnessing the power of objective c and cocoa. The advantages:

-a coder only needs to do the basics, then i can finish it off with the basics

-if the application itself fails, i can easily develop applications in my spare time with it, and that is how the developer would be repaid

what makes this possible is it's ingenious ui.

there is a big hole in the market there, because a lot of people want to create their own applications for thier own intrests, but don't have enough knowledge to do so. our competitors are realbasic, where they still need to learn code, same with supercard, any form of basic even. and thats it.

now make with the apologies people!! jk jk

big post.. time for sleep

 

[Diatribe]

The ground is littered with great ideas, programs superior to anything on the market, which although brilliant in concept and elegantly executed, never successfully sold.

*cough* Betamax *cough*

 

[feakbeak]

And once you sell your 10,000th copy of the application, I will publicly apologise for doubting your idea, and I will buy your product myself.

I'll take this bet as well, but you better stick to the $199 price you told me.

 

[CanadaRAM]

I'll take this bet as well, but you better stick to the $199 price you told me.

I'll go with open pricing on this -- if he sells 10,000 it will have established a market value, and proven its popularity by then. In otherwords, the other 10,000 people wouldn't have bought if it were unrealistically priced.

 

[virus1]

btw guys.. dont make the app yourselves. if you want to use my idea, tell me and i will give u everything i have, in exchange for some money..

 

[jackieonasses]

He really didn't have to tell us he was 13.... You can tell by his posts...


He said he was rejecting the "programmer"

But a paragraph later he wants another human to do it..

confused.


kyle

 

[superbovine]

-a coder only needs to do the basics, then i can finish it off with the basics

-if the application itself fails, i can easily develop applications in my spare time with it, and that is how the developer would be repaid

what makes this possible is it's ingenious ui.

there is a big hole in the market there, because a lot of people want to create their own applications for thier own intrests, but don't have enough knowledge to do so. our competitors are realbasic, where they still need to learn code, same with supercard, any form of basic even. and thats it.

so you want to make an application that can make an open-ended scriptable type program using your "ingenious ui" without the user having to script anything, or have any knowledge about programming? something like automator, but in it's own runtime enviroment? assuming that is correct, your idea flawed. once you learn to program your'll realize that your solution won't work. you'd have to code for ever possibility of functionality whereas with scripting language it is open-ended with infinite solution possible. it something like automator. automator is limited to whatever people script for automator functionality.

 

[virus1]

He really didn't have to tell us he was 13.... You can tell by his posts...


He said he was rejecting the "programmer"

But a paragraph later he wants another human to do it..

confused.


kyle

he wanted money. i was asking for his donations. some couldn't tell i was 13.. so just saying.

 

[virus1]

so you want to make an application that can make an open-ended scriptable type program using your "ingenious ui" without the user having to script anything, or have any knowledge about programming? something like automator, but in it's own runtime enviroment? assuming that is correct, your idea flawed. once you learn to program your'll realize that your solution won't work. you'd have to code for ever possibility of functionality whereas with scripting language it is open-ended with infinite solution possible. it something like automator. automator is limited to whatever people script for automator functionality.

how can any language be open ended? are you saying that you can invent code for objective- c? that would be really cool, but i don't think it is possible. but yes, you do have the basic theory down right. i have it set up so whatever you can type, you can use the gui for.

 

[robbieduncan]

how can any language be open ended? are you saying that you can invent code for objective- c? that would be really cool, but i don't think it is possible. but yes, you do have the basic theory down right. i have it set up so whatever you can type, you can use the gui for.

Kind of like AppleScript then?

 

[gangst]

im sure you will buy it long before then. before i go to bed though, i would like to say a bunch of things:


-a coder only needs to do the basics, then i can finish it off with the basics

-if the application itself fails, i can easily develop applications in my spare time with it, and that is how the developer would be repaid

what makes this possible is it's ingenious ui.

there is a big hole in the market there, because a lot of people want to create their own applications for thier own intrests, but don't have enough knowledge to do so. our competitors are realbasic, where they still need to learn code, same with supercard, any form of basic even. and thats it.

Sorry....but your app sounds rubbish and how would you make money by creating more applicaations? Also how are developers going to trust a 13 year old kid.
You also say that theres a gap in the market for that kind of app, maybe there is, but I doubt people would bother writing programs when they can do a google search and find whaat they want.

Good luck, but if anyone wants to write a program for themselves surely they'd just use xcode.

PS. we've already got AppleScript and Automator (that has an ingenious ui lol)

 

[seamuskrat]

I gather it is more like a Codewarrior crossed with RealBasic for Cocoa. Certainly not a simple coding project for the weekend.

Even if it was as simple as RapidWeaver is for HTML, this undertaking would require extensive knowledge of the JUST completed Coca API and good coding experience, not skills associated with hobby programmer. Lastly, good program design begins in DESIGN. There seems to be minimal design as to how this app will interact with the OS.

I hate to be harsh, but I offered my services and I presume rejected due to realistic criticisms. What I suspect he wants is a huge undertaking. Bring programming to the masses, a la Hypercard in a simple quick cheap app. While I know for sure a working version of such a product would sell many copies, I feel that delving into a project with no planning, no roadmap and a part time coder is a waste of time for all involved.

As for him being 13. I was 13 when I wrote my first code. In fact, some of my code as a teenager was picked up by major companies ultimately. I even sold a few shareware titles back in the day. So I admire this users initiative and creative thinking. But I had hoped to save him some of the trouble I experienced with poorly planned apps and how to best approach a project.

Hopefully he will learn Cocoa and an IDE like XTools and take some classes in coding and write some good apps.

Kind of like AppleScript then?

 

[superbovine]

how can any language be open ended? are you saying that you can invent code for objective- c? that would be really cool, but i don't think it is possible. but yes, you do have the basic theory down right. i have it set up so whatever you can type, you can use the gui for.

yeah, i did a research project, that i wrote my own language and grammar to create a 3D tree, that could be used to random generate a forrest. the parser was written in C++ using the opengl libraries. so yes, you can 'invent' a language using another language. you can also make libraries and extention for objective-c. my point is a programming language is open ended because it lets you have limitless possibilities on what you can create.

for example, english has words. words make sentences which are apart of a grammar. so any proper sentence within the english language is valid and there is almost endless possibilities for sentences. same goes for a computer languages.

as for your idea, your problem is you would still need to know programming. how would pressing a button on a gui to create a for loop, if statement, switch statement, while statement, pointers, variables, etc actually change if you used buttons on a gui even if some of it was pre-programmed in?

for example lets say you want to parse the xml document that contains your itunes library information with your program, and you want to convert it to CSV, or import it in mysql. is the user suppose click buttons on a gui do the properly logical statements to do that, or is the function suppose to preprogrammed and they just have to click and say "read in the xml file" and "export to mysql"? if it is the preprogrammed it would basically just like automator. on the other hand if it is where you click buttons to make program constructs, that is basically the same thing as programming isn't it?

 

[feakbeak]

yeah, i did a research project, that i wrote my own language and grammar to create a 3D tree, that could be used to random generate a forrest. the parser was written in C++ using the opengl libraries. so yes, you can 'invent' a language using another language. you can also make libraries and extention for objective-c. my point is a programming language is open ended because it lets you have limitless possibilities on what you can create.

for example, english has words. words make sentences which are apart of a grammar. so any proper sentence within the english language is valid and there is almost endless possibilities for sentences. same goes for a computer languages.

as for your idea, your problem is you would still need to know programming. how would pressing a button on a gui to create a for loop, if statement, switch statement, while statement, pointers, variables, etc actually change if you used buttons on a gui even if some of it was pre-programmed in?

for example lets say you want to parse the xml document that contains your itunes library information with your program, and you want to convert it to CSV, or import it in mysql. is the user suppose click buttons on a gui do the properly logical statements to do that, or is the functional suppose to preprogrammed and they just have to click and say "read in the xml file" and "export to mysql"? if it is the preprogrammed it would basically just like automator. on the other hand if it is where you click buttons to make program constructs, that is basically the same thing as programming isn't it?

Yes, I talked to virus1 about this quite a bit. He's got a general concept to make programming easy with GUI and everything. However, since he's not a programmer he doesn't understand all the complexities involved.

You either need to go the route of Automator and have everything trimmed down and pre-programmed otherwise you are essentially just creating yet another IDE for programmers. In doing something like Automator it is almost required that you limit the functionality of the actions, you don't offer end-users to tweak all of the details that might be related to a particular action. If you did you would need to create a UI that had a tremendous amount of options. If you did this all with preprogrammed functions it would be daunting to provide a library vast enough to give you the tools you would really need to develop a fully-developed application. If you tried to make a generic GUI and have the system libraries programmaticly translated... well that would be one hell of a technical feat that would require some damn good programming. I'm from the Windows side of programming and there are TypeLibs and stuff available to describe your COM objects and such but converting that into a sensible GUI for the end user is an insane task, IMO.

Anything in between Automator and generic IDE and you end up with something like Visual Basic, which is fine but there are several technologies available like this already and you still need to know a lot more about programming than the average consumer which is the market virus1 is targeting.

 

[superbovine]

You either need to go the route of Automator and have everything trimmed down and pre-programmed or otherwise you are essentially just creating yet another IDE for programmers. In doing something like Automator it is almost required that you limit the functionality of the actions, you don't offer end-users to tweak all of the details that might be related to a particular action. If you did you would need to create a UI that had a tremendous amount of options. If you did this all with preprogrammed functions it would be daunting to provide a library vast enough to give you the tools you would really need to develop a fully-developed application. If you tried to make a generic GUI and have the system libraries programmaticly translated... well that would be one hell of a technical feat that would require some damn good programming. I'm from the Windows side of programming and there are TypeLibs and stuff available to describe your COM objects and such but converting that into a sensible GUI for the end user is an insane task, IMO.

I think you are right, it would be an insane task. also, in my opinion if it could have been done it would have. i am sure he wasn't the first person to dabble on this idea, and if it showed any promise serious research would have been put into it.