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I don't think the forum is toxic unless we cast aside personal responsibility. This forum is nothing more than a venue that we use for a variety of reasons.

MacRumors is a business seeking to make money from Apple related rumors. And if that money needs to come from promoting clickbait stories, said stories will get posted.

The bottom line is that a lot of grown adults allowed themselves to get caught up in the clickbait rumors and then got mad when Apple didn't live up to those imaginary expectations. Unfortunately, this kind of behavior happens all the time on here. A lot of people are quick to embrace pretty much anything they see on here.

When people create false expectations based on rumors created by clickbait whores like Prosser and his ilk, it doesn't matter what Apple does, because it will never be good enough.

There was nothing wrong with yesterday's presentation once you remove al the aforementioned verbal diarrhea. Just because some here didn't get their way, that doesn't mean yesterday was a failure, unless one believes that yesterday's presentation was about meeting every expectation the onlooker had. Sadly, that is the thinking of many here. Apple isn't in the business of meeting every expectation members here have. As long as members here continue to believe that false business narrative, said member will continue to be disappointed on a regular basis with some here throwing temper-tantrums about tech devices.
Yes. I agree. When I meant this sub I meant the people who whined like babies on the internet which is very vocal.
 
I think the most vocal people in the community are either the extreme complainers or the eternal sheeps.
Neither realize that Apple has a clear strategy on integration in mind, not of convergence... This is the most profitable strategy for them, the one that maximizes sales... So iPad will not be a MacBook replacement and the 2 will continue to be clearly distinct but very integrated, so that people are incetivized to buy both.

Meanwhile, those who understand their strategy will keep using the iPads for what they are and understand that pro means premium, not professional
Perhaps Tim Cook should have called it “iPad Premium“ instead of Pro….😉
 
Yes. I agree. When I meant this sub I meant the people who whined like babies on the internet which is very vocal.
No offense, but whining about whiners is still whining.

Whats happening here is pretty standard for any keynote. Including this thread.

1) Apple keynote
2) Complaints (both legitimate and overreactions)
3) Defense (both legitimate and overreactions)
4) Thread slamming whiners by whining about whining
5) Rumor discussion about next year

So, its good we're already at step 4 and I am excited to see what rumors will begin about next year being the big year. 😅
 
When you say it reloads Civ VI all the time, what do you mean? Just curious as a fellow Civ VI player, on a 2018 12.9. It doesn't reload while I'm playing or anything. But if I navigate to another tab and then come back, maybe 10 to 20 percent of the time it does reload. It is annoying. But it is the only app I have that really gives me that annoyance, because pretty much anything else that reloads does it really quickly.
Great with some other Civ IV players! The app reloads when I check my mail or browsing. A reboot solves the issue for awhile and it correlates with the number of open apps so it is easy to draw the conclusion it is connected to RAM. Perhaps it is not a reload by a regular crash and the app needs to restart. Difficult to say. Civ VI is also the only app that behaves like this.

It is a bit difficult to argue for buying a 16 Gb iPP for Civ VI when an occasional reboot will do the trick. No even sure in 16 Gb will help in this case.
 
Mac:
RAM cost extra
RAM has clear immediate benefits in current or future workflow
Conclusion: RAM importance is established and proven, therefore RAM upgrade purchase can logically be made based.
Very few Mac owners can do this calculation and predictions.

RAM usage in the iPad is not clear as I have seen not a single test of RAM usage in an iPad. On the Mac it is a usual test using built in app. It is therefore easy to say RAM on iPad is not important.

16 Gb is for those very few who run several heavy apps simultaneously (it is not so many that puts in 1.5 Tb RAM in a either). It is also a signal to app developers that Apple is ready to give the iPad the RAM needed for heavy "desktop" apps.
 
Great with some other Civ IV players! The app reloads when I check my mail or browsing. A reboot solves the issue for awhile and it correlates with the number of open apps so it is easy to draw the conclusion it is connected to RAM. Perhaps it is not a reload by a regular crash and the app needs to restart. Difficult to say. Civ VI is also the only app that behaves like this.

It is a bit difficult to argue for buying a 16 Gb iPP for Civ VI when an occasional reboot will do the trick. No even sure in 16 Gb will help in this case.
for me CIV VI doesn’t start sometimes and then I have to clear the app and restart. It’s a bit buggy. Also Aspyr better release the New Frontier pass.
 
I agree. Apple never promised anything. People assume, from nowhere, that pro apps were coming. People assume that fixes and tweaks THEY wanted was coming this WWDC. When people don't get what they and others assume, they get crazy, especially on these forums.

They chose to put the M1-chip in simply because creating a new SoC when they already had the M1 ready is just dumb.

Enjoy your iPads if you got them, if not, continue living your life. Noone knows what's happening down the line.

-> Buy it for what it can do now, not tomorrow.
 
.......

i think the best advice is configure a laptop to your exact needs for today with an eye to the future. People talk about future proofing (which is a marketing term to scare people to over spend), but by and large what you do with your computer today, will be the same in the next few years.

The benefits of extra ram on the PC and iPad are the same, is your workflow set up in such a way that you can take advantage of it

Just my $.02
Your comment about future proofing is wrong. Future proofing is a well founded established business strategy. When you have been in business long enough, you will come across situations where a client intends to use your services but needs to see if you can handle the job first before pen is put to paper. The client knows exactly what it is going to take in terms of hardware and software to see if the job can be done in the time frame they specifiy and many times a client has found a business to be inadequate because their hardware is not upto the standard the client requires. Therefore the business misses out on a very well paid job.

Such a client may not come around again for a few months but then again one could come the next day or next week and the same situation occurs, the hardware your business uses is not up to scratch thus the client goes elsewhere. Remember,

Now the current hardware and software the business uses is sufficent for the clients the business already has but what about those clients who turned around and walked away? does the buiness stick with what it currently has knowing it is ok for their current needs or does the business go out and purchase hardware that is beyond their current requirements in the hope that it would be enough for those potential clients who are looking for something much much more, hence the need to 'future proof'.

Remember, a client could come foraward at anytime, maybe because their current contractor has failed to do the job properly, or the contractor has gone out of business and the client needs to find a replacement urgently. A business should be ready and able to fill in at short notice. Those business that have set themselves a clear business plan will not be interested in the above sort of scenerios because such a scenerio would mess up their business plan, hence why such a business would be looking to the furture to change things, upgrade things, but for now, they are content in keeping things as they are.

Anyone who pours scorn on future proofing, in my opinion has either not been in business long enough or only been involved in businesses where the practice of future proofing is never required.
 
Great with some other Civ IV players! The app reloads when I check my mail or browsing. A reboot solves the issue for awhile and it correlates with the number of open apps so it is easy to draw the conclusion it is connected to RAM. Perhaps it is not a reload by a regular crash and the app needs to restart. Difficult to say. Civ VI is also the only app that behaves like this.

It is a bit difficult to argue for buying a 16 Gb iPP for Civ VI when an occasional reboot will do the trick. No even sure in 16 Gb will help in this case.
I know, right? In the end I decided not to upgrade, even though I was tempted by the idea that the wait times between turns might speed up. (Plus I do want to move to cellular and more storage). I play Civ VI constantly, but it is still just a game, and spending several hundred dollars felt ridiculous. Maybe next time.
 
Your comment about future proofing is wrong.
I disagree

Future proofing is a well founded established business strategy.
We're not talking about businesses, but consumers, and even in businesses they don't buy hardware wildly over spec'd I know since i'm involved in planning, and buying servers for my team. We look at what applications will be running, what requirements for those applications and plan on 5 years of usage. if the application only needs 16GB of ram, we don't put 64GB, or if we only need 500GB, we don't buy 4 TB.

On the other hand, I see so many people trying to justify 64GB of ram on the MBP for the future even if their usage only needs a quarter of that amount. Another example is the top end iPad, people are opting for that since it now has more ram that they may need even though its not needed but just in case for the future.
 
We're not talking about businesses, but consumers, and even in businesses they don't buy hardware wildly over spec'd I know since i'm involved in planning, and buying servers for my team. We look at what applications will be running, what requirements for those applications and plan on 5 years of usage. if the application only needs 16GB of ram, we don't put 64GB, or if we only need 500GB, we don't buy 4 TB.

On the other hand, I see so many people trying to justify 64GB of ram on the MBP for the future even if their usage only needs a quarter of that amount. Another example is the top end iPad, people are opting for that since it now has more ram that they may need even though its not needed but just in case for the future.

Planning and designing for 5 years of usage implies some level of futureproofing, though.

There's going wildly over spec and then there's allowing for reasonable headroom.

For most, it doesn't make much sense to get the 1TB iPad Pro just to get 16GB RAM. However, for a $50-200 difference between iPad Air 4 (A14/4GB) and 2021 iPad Pro 11 (M1/8GB) depending on what storage size one needs, it's worth considering the 2021 iPP.

Similar case with buying 2018/2020 vs 2021. For $100-200 extra, it might be better to opt for 2021.
 
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Another example is the top end iPad, people are opting for that since it now has more ram that they may need even though its not needed but just in case for the future.
You don’t have to go full out to future proof. Anyone moving from a basic iPad or an Air to a Pro without a specific reason is future proofing.

The belief throughout these threads that Apple would not differentiate between devices that can use the same version of the OS has been disproved by the differences between macOS on an Intel Mac (which the currently still sell) and the ARM Macs.

The difference in RAM between non-Pro iPads and Pros is now too stark to not have Apple, in addition to third party developers, clearly target the higher RAM models. If not today, then definitely a year or so from now. And for someone like myself, who keeps their kit for 3 years minimum, it is probably worth the risk of overspending now to cover potential new requirements for RAM.
 
very interesting topic, I agree with both Mike and the subsequent comments, while completely disagreeing with laptech...
As I have said elsewhere future proofing is a very subtle game that works less and less the longer the time horizon...
And when future proofing is based on leaks it works even less...
Personally when I buy a high end tier of some device I don't do it with the aim of future proofing but rather as a sort of luxury purchase... For instance I buy more storage than I currently need so that I don't need to worry about managing storage... And I can dump lots of local files if I want to... Same with RAM, it's purely a luxury purchase to have apps in memory for ridiculous amounts of time.... You don't need to be rich to make luxury purchases, if something is a priority for you (like is tech for me, for others it's cars, etc.) and you can afford it (because again maybe you don't spend what others spend in other things or need to spend because of family etc.) then why not...
 
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very interesting topic, I agree with both Mike and the subsequent comments, while completely disagreeing with laptech...
As I have said elsewhere future proofing is a very subtle game that works less and less the longer the time horizon...
And when future proofing is based on leaks it works even less...
Personally when I buy a high end tier of some device I don't do it with the aim of future proofing but rather as a sort of luxury purchase... For instance I buy more storage than I currently need so that I don't need to worry about managing storage... And I can dump lots of local files if I want to... Same with RAM, it's purely a luxury purchase to have apps in memory for ridiculous amounts of time.... You don't need to be rich to make luxury purchases, if something is a priority for you (like is tech for me, for others it's cars, etc.) and you can afford it (because again maybe you don't spend what others spend in other things or need to spend because of family etc.) then why not...
Very well said. I do the same. Not needing to think about storage space is a bliss.
 
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I suggest the detractors of future proofing go read up on the definition of furute proofing because you really do not have a clue about the concept.

An example. A person is lookng to purchase a home computer. They know what their current needs and want's are BUT whilst looking around to see what computers are available within their price range, they start to think about 'what if' scenerios. What if when they get the computer, they get more involved in it's capabilites and start to see what else can it do. What if they get more involved in games, does the machine have the capability now. Will the increase in capabilites mean the computer in it's current form will be inadequate for their future needs. Will they get involved into picture or video editing, both practices that may require more hard disk storage and more RAM. immediatly that person is starting to look at 'furture proofing' their computer, instead of having to make constant upgrades to cope with their changing needs as the years progress.

The argument put forward by others is that future proofing is not a consumer concept. I disgree. If a consumer purchases a computer but decides to increase the RAM size and the hard disk size, it is implied they are expecting changes to occur in the way they use their computer, meaning they are antispating future changes and thus making the changes now rather than latter on, meaning they are 'future proofing' their computer.

If you forsee changes to occur in the future but you accomodate for those foreseeable changes now, you are futuring proofing.
 
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