Yes, iPad pro needs a file system...

[rowspaxe]

Nearly all of my Windows use is on desktops, so the rare instance that I need to use it portable, enough time has gone by that there are ALWAYS large, multiple, pending updates.

Not BS. Period.

P.S. Don't call people liars just because their experience is different than yours. People have different use cases.

So you explain why your surface experience is idiosyncratic--using the device only after long lapses of disuse.

I hold this criticism is BS as it relates to the way the device is used generally. That's not calling you a liar, its characterizing your complaint as bs. Surface is now updated semi annually, with monthly small security updates generally that refresh without reboot, or with a reboot that maintains open files.

I'm sure you are familiar with this as a desktop user.

 

[Newtons Apple]

Nearly all of my Windows use is on desktops, so the rare instance that I need to use it portable, enough time has gone by that there are ALWAYS large, multiple, pending updates.

Not BS. Period.

P.S. Don't call people liars just because their experience is different than yours. People have different use cases.

Same here. Have a 2018 15" MacBook Pro running Windows 10 Pro via BootCamp. Just a week or two idle and the updates are ridiculous but it is just part of Windows. I have no choice as much of my software is Windows only. I just boot up windows now and leave it alone for about a half hour and it is ready to go.

 

[Conutz]

I have an original 12.9” IPP and after various aborted attempts using it productively (read: purely for my work purposes), I have recently found that it is in fact quite usable. I use Dropbox as my primary storage, but also have the 50GB iCloud subs, which I got mainly for backing up my iPad and iPhone.

The two storage options allow me to work pretty well where I use Dropbox mainly for accessing existing content and iCloud for saving new docs, which I then sync back to Dropbox when on my MBP. I know that this is a double-step, but I find that it works fine. I hate getting out my MBP or booting my Mini when they’re not going to be needed for extended periods, so this is where the IPP is great. Instant on and off you go. Keyboard and Pencil are great and allow you to get through most single-doc tasks without a hassle. Of course apps with managed sync such as Bear are fine, as they take care of themselves.

Using Documents by Readdle as a hub also makes things a lot easier, as I can interact with our NAS, upload to our cloud servers and so on. Documents supports all sorts: Dropbox, iCloud, SMB, FTP, etc., making it really handy. (Apple’s Files may also, but I just use Documents).

Another thing that has helped is my slight change in perspective towards Apple’s approach of grouping files per app. I have a fairly well-defined folder structure, but with all the different aspects of running a small business, I often forget where a saved a particular file. In these cases, I typically end up searching for a file type, such as .itmz for example. Because of this, I’ve often considered changing to an app-centric approach, making the iOS approach a little less foreign.

So overall, I actually find the experience quite okay. Is it ultra-rapid and automatic like a traditional file system? Nope, but most certainly usable. I quite enjoy it

@Newtons Apple maybe you could try use Documents and set it to sync Dropbox folders containing your contracts?

 

[Newtons Apple]

@Newtons Apple maybe you could try use Documents and set it to sync Dropbox folders containing your contracts?

We do use Dropbox and have all our documents synced on our iPads. It works but . . . .

I would STILL rather have a full file system on my iPad. I just do not think Apple will let it happen.

 

[gnomeisland]

I think we have different definitions of what a "full file system" means. I would be happy with the Files app if it worked with external storage. I'd be thrilled if the current extensibility was expanded to work with not just cloud providers but actual file systems as well (NTFS, etc.). It would also be great if a long/hard press gave the option to open a file in an app like in the finder—most of that functionality is there but you have to open the preview and then open/copy the file to the app. Just give me a gesture to send the file(s) directly!

Obviously a lot of the work would be in the app developers supporting the file system but if there's incentive they will!

 

[flur]

Then more BS surface hate: returned it within a week?

Um. I got a Surface Pro from my company, and yeah, I went through three of them and eventually gave up and kept the last one. The battery life is terrible out of the box. The irony is that the problem software on the first two was Microsoft Office programs - they kept crashing and eventually corrupted the device. My company’s IT did OS reinstalls and eventually replaced, and the new device showed the same issues. I didn’t go through them in a week, but yeah, over the course of two months I had three devices with multiple OS corruptions on each, and none of them lasted over 3 hours on battery.

You may not like that people don’t like the Surface, but plenty of us have valid reasons to dislike, return, and reject them. The fact that you feel differently doesn’t make everyone else liars.
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Same here. Have a 2018 15" MacBook Pro running Windows 10 Pro via BootCamp. Just a week or two idle and the updates are ridiculous but it is just part of Windows. I have no choice as much of my software is Windows only. I just boot up windows now and leave it alone for about a half hour and it is ready to go.

I’ve resolved this issue by running Win7 on my Mac. All my programs still run great and I have no OS updates.

 

[omelet1978]

Honestly I think the file system issue is overblown.

Yes the file system built into the iPad kind of sucks, but when I owned a Surface Pro 4 I didn’t really use the file system on it. I used Google Drive since I can access it on all my devices.

 

[jaseone]

With FileBrowser you can create local shared directory structures like this mythical real file structure y’all keep harping on about, I don’t usually use it but I was able to just create a test structure, navigate to it in the Files app and also open files from it in both Lightroom CC & MS Word all with a minimum of fuss. Yes it would be better if Apple allowed you to create that structure directly in the “On my iPad” area but FileBrowser is useful for so many other things it isn’t really a hassle to have to use it.

If it could read/write from/to external storage directly without having to go through a NAS it would do everything I need a filesystem to be able to do.

 

[JullsJTRIRE]

iOS has - and always has had - access to the filesystem.

Only (for apps) it's a sandboxed filesystem that is accessible only by that app or app group. (The same publisher can - if they choose - share files across their own apps.)

And, now, iOS, watchOS, tvOS and MacOS all use the same type of filesystem - APFS - to boot.

Thanks, man, I was just trying to remember that abb - APFS )

 

[ahostmadsen]

With FileBrowser you can create local shared directory structures like this mythical real file structure y’all keep harping on about, I don’t usually use it but I was able to just create a test structure, navigate to it in the Files app and also open files from it in both Lightroom CC & MS Word all with a minimum of fuss. Yes it would be better if Apple allowed you to create that structure directly in the “On my iPad” area but FileBrowser is useful for so many other things it isn’t really a hassle to have to use it.

If it could read/write from/to external storage directly without having to go through a NAS it would do everything I need a filesystem to be able to do.

Yes, but the question is: can you sync folders with Dropbox, and then see them from other apps? In Documents, you can see local folders from other apps, and you can sync folders with Dropbox, but you cannot see the folders synced with Dropbox from other apps.

 

[PKoz]

You just might get your wish with iOS 13

We said that since iOS 11. Apple has zero intentions of ever giving us a file system app like Finder on iOS. They are pig-headed beyond belief. They somehow got it in their heads that workarounds keep the system pure when in fact the workaround only proves that the user is willing to go to extremes to get done what they need to get done. If anything, Apple should see workarounds as a testament to what needs to be improved in the name of the feature that the user is in need of.

If you think Apple is going to give you access to a file system then you don't understand how Apple thinks. Apple is the master at creating something promising and then creating frustration for the user to the point that the user goes elsewhere to get what they want.

What you might hope for is an ARM-based MacBook with many of the features of the iPad incorporated into the laptop. It's a real shame as the iPad is so powerful. Apple is always in conflict with itself. Restricting the iPad in the way they have only limits the user and creates frustration.

 

[Greenmeenie]

We said that since iOS 11. Apple has zero intentions of ever giving us a file system app like Finder on iOS. They are pig-headed beyond belief. They somehow got it in their heads that workarounds keep the system pure when in fact the workaround only proves that the user is willing to go to extremes to get done what they need to get done. If anything, Apple should see workarounds as a testament to what needs to be improved in the name of the feature that the user is in need of.

If you think Apple is going to give you access to a file system then you don't understand how Apple thinks. Apple is the master at creating something promising and then creating frustration for the user to the point that the user goes elsewhere to get what they want.

What you might hope for is an ARM-based MacBook with many of the features of the iPad incorporated into the laptop. It's a real shame as the iPad is so powerful. Apple is always in conflict with itself. Restricting the iPad in the way they have only limits the user and creates frustration.

I hear what you say. But I would say Apple’s modus operandi is to say it will never do something (Large iPhone etc)...and then later do the thing they said they’d never do. Apple takes their time. Slowly, but they get there. And when they do, they do it better than anyone. I am not saying for certain iOS 13 will bring all these changes, but they are slowly adding things like usb-c etc, in preparation for some big changes. Perhaps ios13 will bring them. Perhaps not. But i think Apple knows the software has to catch up to the hardware at this point. The writings on the wall. I am not arrogant enough to think Apple is listening to me specifically, but if you think they aren’t listening to the feedback from these latest ipad pros you’d be wrong. They are. And i believe big software changes are coming. Not just to apps like photoshop, but to iOS itself to help professionals really maximize their ipad pro’s true potential.

 

[PJivan]

The file system is locked out because unlocking it knocks down the walled garden. I'm sure there are many people that want exactly that, but that's clearly not what Apple intends.

Apple spends great effort keeping things locked down. It would actually be easier for Apple to just have an open file system, but then they'd lose control. Apple lives and breathes vertical integration--they don't want to lose control.

I do not think we'll see an open file system on an iPad until/unless Apple makes MacOS tablets.

I think the best we'll see in iOS tablets are very small, very controlled enhancements that don't conflict with the walled garden.

Don’t agree, the only service hurt would be icloud, having a proper file manager does not mean to be able to install apps outside of the App Store

 

[RecentlyConverted]

With FileBrowser you can create local shared directory structures like this mythical real file structure y’all keep harping on about, I don’t usually use it but I was able to just create a test structure, navigate to it in the Files app and also open files from it in both Lightroom CC & MS Word all with a minimum of fuss. Yes it would be better if Apple allowed you to create that structure directly in the “On my iPad” area but FileBrowser is useful for so many other things it isn’t really a hassle to have to use it.

If it could read/write from/to external storage directly without having to go through a NAS it would do everything I need a filesystem to be able to do.

With FileBrowser you can directly access a SanDisk iXpand drive. You can also automate document backup.

 

[Rank1E]

With the mentions of FileBrowser I thought I'd try out the 2 weeks free of their subscription version FileBrowserGO. It's actually working well and looks extremely flexible.

Any cloud services you connect are available to all apps via the FileBrowser location in Files (labelled as 'Network Folders'). You can also manually select individual folders as a 'Sync Folder' which are also available to all apps.

For apps that can save directly back to their original location it worked perfectly. For example I used Acrobat to open a Pdf on Dropbox (accessed via the FileBrowser location in Files) and then annotated it, and it saved back to Dropbox immediately.

 

[ahostmadsen]

With the mentions of FileBrowser I thought I'd try out the 2 weeks free of their subscription version FileBrowserGO. It's actually working well and looks extremely flexible.

Any cloud services you connect are available to all apps via the FileBrowser location in Files (labelled as 'Network Folders'). You can also manually select individual folders as a 'Sync Folder' which are also available to all apps.

For apps that can save directly back to their original location it worked perfectly. For example I used Acrobat to open a Pdf on Dropbox (accessed via the FileBrowser location in Files) and then annotated it, and it saved back to Dropbox immediately.

Now I bought it. It does indeed allow access to Dropbox from Files. But unfortunately, it does not work from inside apps. So, an Apple files system is still needed

 

[Rank1E]

Now I bought it. It does indeed allow access to Dropbox from Files. But unfortunately, it does not work from inside apps. So, an Apple files system is still needed

Not sure I follow. All apps open/import will use the Files interface, which will allow you to select the FileBrowser location.

 

[ahostmadsen]

Not sure I follow. All apps open/import will use the Files interface, which will allow you to select the FileBrowser location.

Here is the error I get. It's the same error I get when I go directly through Dropbox. It only works for iCloud. I think the issue here is that the app needs access to a whole folder, not just a single file.

Of course, on a Mac that app works with any file, because it accesses them through the file system.

 

[flur]

Yes, but the question is: can you sync folders with Dropbox, and then see them from other apps? In Documents, you can see local folders from other apps, and you can sync folders with Dropbox, but you cannot see the folders synced with Dropbox from other apps.

I can see Dropbox folders in several apps. Word and Excel come to mind right away, but there are others. And Scrivener does a direct sync to Dropbox - I don’t think I can see the full file structure, but it’s not necessary for this particular app, as anything with a Scrivener file type that I put into the Scrivener folder will sync and be visible on the app. So, it varies by what apps you use.

 

[ahostmadsen]

I can see Dropbox folders in several apps. Word and Excel come to mind right away, but there are others. And Scrivener does a direct sync to Dropbox - I don’t think I can see the full file structure, but it’s not necessary for this particular app, as anything with a Scrivener file type that I put into the Scrivener folder will sync and be visible on the app. So, it varies by what apps you use.

That is exactly the whole problem. Because the iPad does not have a file system, it depends on each app to implement access to each cloud service.

On a device like the Mac, apps just have to implement access to the file system.

 

[AlexiTQ]

File management is not the same as file system.

 

[MyopicPaideia]

File management is not the same as file system.

What point exactly are you trying to make with that snarky, repetitive and anti-contributary remark? Everyone knows that already and you know exactly what is being discussed here. How about File Management System, or Front End File System Interface, or User Accessible File System Management tool? Would that make you happy and willing to join the discussion in a meaningful way?

It reflects more upon your intelligence than everyone else’s here with a snooty nose-in-the-air post like that.

 

[AlexiTQ]

What point exactly are you trying to make with that snarky, repetitive and anti-contributary remark? Everyone knows that already and you know exactly what is being discussed here. How about File Management System, or Front End File System Interface, or User Accessible File System Management tool? Would that make you happy and willing to join the discussion in a meaningful way?

It reflects more upon your intelligence than everyone else’s here with a snooty nose-in-the-air post like that.

If everyone knows it already, why keep using incorrect terminology? Using such incorrect terminology makes you look ignorant, so it’s a polite thing to do to point that out.

 

[jaseone]

Now I bought it. It does indeed allow access to Dropbox from Files. But unfortunately, it does not work from inside apps. So, an Apple files system is still needed

I’m able to open files directly from Dropbox through the Files app via. FileBrowser / Network Folders in various apps, to do it that way I believe it needs access to the Network. Alternatively you can select a folder to sync in FileBrowser and then access it through the Files app via FileBrowser / Sync Files and it will be available offline. I don’t have the actual Dropbox app installed so haven’t tested what it can do but it seems your complaints mostly stem from the one app so it could well be the app at fault.

 

[EEzycade]

what the iPad needs is a separate OS, like iOS and macOS for iPhone and Mac respectively