Yet another Nikon D40 VS D60 (I did my research!)

[Kaiser Phoenix]

Hi all,

Before I begin, I do apologize for yet another thread on this topic but I have done extensive research and just want some more opinion on the bottom 2 choices. I am a complete noob in this area and just trying to enter the DSLR scene.

Here are my options:

Nikon D40 + Aperture + 4GB Sandisk Extreme III = 279 + 116 (edu) + 17.44

total of 412.44 then minus £30 for the rebate to get roughly 382.44.

OR

Just get a D60 and a memory card for 422 + 17.44 - £40 rebate = £399 and then just use iphoto that i have.

I am not planning to buy any other lens, just the ones that come with the cameras which are the 18-55mm for the D40 and the same but VR version for the D60.

Now at first sight, the D40 seems to be the way forward as I could use it as a cheap but decent learning camera and then maybe after a year or 2 if I decide that photography is my thing, get a better camera.

However the VR lens on the D60 plus the Expeed processing and the 4 extra mp also seems attractive and not to mention that it is a newer model so future proofing to an extent.

Which way should I go?? I will be taking photos mainly outside but sometimes in situations of less light like nights or dinner parties which makes me lean towards the D60 with its defaul VR lens...

Thank you in advance!

PS Do I even need Aperture or will iPhoto suffice? I am also interested in post production too.

 

[compuwar]

Here are my options:

Nikon D40 + Aperture + 4GB Sandisk Extreme III = 279 + 116 (edu) + 17.44

total of 412.44 then minus £30 for the rebate to get roughly 382.44.

OR

Just get a D60 and a memory card for 422 + 17.44 - £40 rebate = £399 and then just use iphoto that i have.

I am not planning to buy any other lens, just the ones that come with the cameras which are the 18-55mm for the D40 and the same but VR version for the D60.

Now at first sight, the D40 seems to be the way forward as I could use it as a cheap but decent learning camera and then maybe after a year or 2 if I decide that photography is my thing, get a better camera.

However the VR lens on the D60 plus the Expeed processing and the 4 extra mp also seems attractive and not to mention that it is a newer model so future proofing to an extent.

Which way should I go?? I will be taking photos mainly outside but sometimes in situations of less light like nights or dinner parties which makes me lean towards the D60 with its defaul VR lens...

Thank you in advance!

PS Do I even need Aperture or will iPhoto suffice? I am also interested in post production too.

You likely won't need Aperture up-front. Photoshop CS3 is nice for PP. The lens is much more important than the body- it'll be useful on your next 3+ camera bodies. I'd go with cheaper cards and get two, even if they're smaller, so that a single card failure won't leave you high and dry.

If the kit lens on the D60 looks like one you'll keep, go that way, otherwise save the money and start saving for a lens you'll use more often.

 

[Kaiser Phoenix]

Hi thanks Compuwar,

So what you mean is that I guess if ever I do move to a newer camera, the 15-55mm VR lens would be good to have rather than a 15-55mm which is inferior I suppose...

I also looked at Lightroom and it seems better than Aperture...

I think i am leaning towards the D60

But thanks for your opinion!

 

[mondesi43]

I had the D40 for about 2 weeks, then I returned it for the D60. All the differences you listed is well worth the money.

I agree with the memory card comment. I have a 2G and it's plenty.

 

[Kaiser Phoenix]

I had the D40 for about 2 weeks, then I returned it for the D60. All the differences you listed is well worth the money.

I agree with the memory card comment. I have a 2G and it's plenty.

So I guess I should go with the D60, how was the comparison in image quality, is the Exspeed thing really that different? or is it like a marketing gimmick.

 

[akm3]

Personally, I'd go for the D40 and NOT buy aperture. Use iPhoto. Learn more about photography. Decide if it is right for you.


Then invest in what you want once you know exactly what it is.

 

[Kaiser Phoenix]

Personally, I'd go for the D40 and NOT buy aperture. Use iPhoto. Learn more about photography. Decide if it is right for you.


Then invest in what you want once you know exactly what it is.

Yeah the D40 is tremendously cheap now....Its just that I tend to blur alot with my compact digital and I feel like without the VR I will suffer...

 

[ChrisA]

[just a few points

1) You can buy any lens with either camera. If you like the 18-135 get that on the D40.

2) I doubt you will want Aperure right off. That is best used by some one who shoots a very high volume of rae (NEF) images. iPhoto will do fine and if you do go with Aperure later converting from iPhoto is easy

3) Adobe just released Photoshop Elements today. If you want to buy softare I'd get PSE and use it with iPhoto.

4) Are you sure you will never buy another lens? That is the whole point of an SLR, that you can change them. You will maybe want a macro lens or a telephoto or a fast prime at some point

If I have to choose between the D40 and D60 I'd look at adds for a used D50

 

[ChrisA]

Yeah the D40 is tremendously cheap now....Its just that I tend to blur alot with my compact digital and I feel like without the VR I will suffer...

You compact P&S camera likely is using shutter speeds that are to slow. If you shoot the D40 such that the shutter speed is not faster than 1/(focal length of lens) then the image will not have blur do to camera shake. So with the non-VR lens if you keep the shutter at 1/60th or faster you can freeze camera shake motion. at the lenses wide setting you could go slower to 1/30th. VR allows slower speed shutter and the VR compensates for camera motion but not foer subject motion. As you get below 1/60 that subject needs to be static to aoid motion blur. I think VR on a short 18-55 lens is only marginaly usfull, nice to have but not needed

If you like buy the D40 with a VR lens. Nikon makes quite a few VR lenses now any of then will fit on the D40.

 

[SLC Flyfishing]

I'd but the D40, the 18-55 kit lens of your choice (VR or non VR) and then put the rest into buying lunches for your friends!

Seriously, you're eventually going to want another lens if this photography thing takes off for you. If not then you spent less on the D40 (which is a fabulous beginner camera by the way) and you won't take quite the same hit for a failed hobby as you would have with the D60.

SLC

 

[jbernie]

Nikon D40 + Aperture + 4GB Sandisk Extreme III = 279 + 116 (edu) + 17.44

total of 412.44 then minus £30 for the rebate to get roughly 382.44.

OR

Just get a D60 and a memory card for 422 + 17.44 - £40 rebate = £399 and then just use iphoto that i have.

I am not planning to buy any other lens, just the ones that come with the cameras which are the 18-55mm for the D40 and the same but VR version for the D60.

Go with the D60, you can always buy software later, you won't be changing the body very often. Unless you are planning on do overly complex changes I found iPhoto on my gf's iMac sufficent enough for the holiday photos.

As mentioned a 2GB card will probably be all you need, and as they continually get cheaper you can pick up a second later on in a few months for maybe 2/3rds what you pay now.

A few of us were able to pick up a 4GB Kingston CF for US$45 with a $40 rebate, the $5 difference was shipping. I can't use a 4GB card in my current camera but with a dSLR on the way soonish it was a worthwhile purchase for $5.

 

[Kaiser Phoenix]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for your help, but I just want to clarify something.

The thing is, if I get the D40 and then buy another lens of my choice, then the price becomes nearly the same as say a 18-55mm VR lens costs around 130 so if I put that on, then I might as well just buy a D60 because the total comes to the same price.

The thing with the D60 is that even if I ditch the body later one, the lens would be quite useful whereas the non-Vr might be rubbish.

I understand about the shutter speeds but my reasoning is that since it compensates for lower shutter speeds, the D60 should perform better in lower light conditions?

Its not that im NOT going to buy another lens, I am just not going to buy any at the moment until I learn all the aspects and technicalities.

Also yes the software I will stick to iphoto for now as I cant learn so many things at once!

Thank you all for your help but if you have any more suggestions, please let me know!

Also if you think another camera is better say the Alpha 200 which I briefly considered...

 

[jbrindger]

D80

I have the D80 and I love it. Buy it off of Amazon it has the best deal and sometimes I have seen it with two lenses. Nothing against the D40 or the D60 but the D80 smokes them. A great website for camera questions is http://www.kenrockwell.com.

 

[Kaiser Phoenix]

I have the D80 and I love it. Buy it off of Amazon it has the best deal and sometimes I have seen it with two lenses. Nothing against the D40 or the D60 but the D80 smokes them. A great website for camera questions is http://www.kenrockwell.com.

Yes in fact the D80 did cross my mind and since many of my family members have old nikon lenses lying about, the fact that it has an internal focus motor is quite appealing.

The only thing is the weight which might put me off carying it about everywhere...

 

[Abstract]

Get the D40. It's essentially the same camera as the D60, except with a different kit lens. The VR on the kit lens isn't a big deal.

In fact, get the D40 + 4 GB card, and forget Aperture, like Akm3 said. That would put your total at £279 + £17.44 = £293.44. Just use iPhoto. It's not a bad program at all. Only upgrade if what you own doesn't do what you need it to do.

Hold on to the money you save, or do what ChrisA suggested and look into buying an 18-135 mm lens. In other words, see if you can buy just the D40 camera body (no 18-55 mm lens), and then buy the 18-135 mm lens.

 

[Kaiser Phoenix]

Get the D40. It's essentially the same camera as the D60, except with a different kit lens. The VR on the kit lens isn't a big deal.

In fact, get the D40 + 4 GB card, and forget Aperture, like Akm3 said. That would put your total at £279 + £17.44 = £293.44. Just use iPhoto. It's not a bad program at all. Only upgrade if what you own doesn't do what you need it to do.

Hold on to the money you save, or do what ChrisA suggested and look into buying an 18-135 mm lens. In other words, see if you can buy just the D40 camera body (no 18-55 mm lens), and then buy the 18-135 mm lens.

Ok so I think I will get the D40 and since I cant find the D40 body only, I will try and find another lens. I read that the 18-135 isnt that great without VR especailly on the 135 range?

So which lens should I get as a sort of one-stop shop solution while I get acquainted with everything?

 

[SLC Flyfishing]

Get the 18-55 kit lens or the 18-135 lens. Neither one is a bad lens by any stretch. Whoever told you that they weren't good without VR was ill informed. Both of these lenses are short enough that hand holding them in most shooting conditions won't be a problem. Also, you've probably been reading literature from someone who thinks VR is the be-all/end-all of lens technology. I can tell you that it isn't, good shooting technique got people by just fine for years and years before the first VR lenses hit the market.

If after reading this you are still sold on the necessity of VR, then look into a Sony, Olympus or Pentax model. They all feature VR built in the camera body so it works with all lenses attached to the camera.

SLC

 

[compuwar]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for your help, but I just want to clarify something.

The thing is, if I get the D40 and then buy another lens of my choice, then the price becomes nearly the same as say a 18-55mm VR lens costs around 130 so if I put that on, then I might as well just buy a D60 because the total comes to the same price.

Kit lens bundles are great deals if you like the lenses, which is why I advised you to make your decision more on the lens than the body.

The thing with the D60 is that even if I ditch the body later one, the lens would be quite useful whereas the non-Vr might be rubbish.

VR doesn't change the optical formula of a lens, there are good lenses and bad lenses, each with and without VR. Thom Hogan has one of the best sites for Nikon lenses at http://www.bythom.com, if you need help deciding about a particular lens.

I understand about the shutter speeds but my reasoning is that since it compensates for lower shutter speeds, the D60 should perform better in lower light conditions?

Stabilization accounts for photographer/camera motion, not subject motion, so if you're taking pictures of completely still subjects in low light, it'll help, if not it doesn't help.

Its not that im NOT going to buy another lens, I am just not going to buy any at the moment until I learn all the aspects and technicalities.

Also yes the software I will stick to iphoto for now as I cant learn so many things at once!

Thank you all for your help but if you have any more suggestions, please let me know!

Also if you think another camera is better say the Alpha 200 which I briefly considered...

All modern dSLRs are pretty equivalent at the entry level, the bigger question is the rest of the system (lenses, flashes, brackets) and future body choices should you decide to move up the chain later on in life.

 

[Kaiser Phoenix]

Kit lens bundles are great deals if you like the lenses, which is why I advised you to make your decision more on the lens than the body.



VR doesn't change the optical formula of a lens, there are good lenses and bad lenses, each with and without VR. Thom Hogan has one of the best sites for Nikon lenses at http://www.bythom.com, if you need help deciding about a particular lens.



Stabilization accounts for photographer/camera motion, not subject motion, so if you're taking pictures of completely still subjects in low light, it'll help, if not it doesn't help.



All modern dSLRs are pretty equivalent at the entry level, the bigger question is the rest of the system (lenses, flashes, brackets) and future body choices should you decide to move up the chain later on in life.

Ok so since I WILL be taking photos in slightly darker situations of OBJECTS which dont move and since I prefer the 18-55 VR over the non-vr, I guess I should just go for the D60...

 

[Kaiser Phoenix]

Ok How is this combo?

The D40 + 16-85mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR AF-S DX NIKKOR

TOTAL = 280 + 430 = 710...

With that I could just get the D80?

 

[SLC Flyfishing]

Why not the D40 (body only) plus the 18-55 VR lens (also sold separately). Or a 50 mm f/1.8 which I think everyone should own anyway! the f/1.8 designation means it has a huge aperture opening, helps a lot in low light and paired with the high ISO ability of the D40 it would be just as good in low light as the 18-55 VR, maybe even better. Plus it can throw backgrounds out of focus better, is probably considerably sharper, and it can be had for a song. Not only that but a larger aperture makes faster shutter speeds possible and that makes it easier to stop motion.

SLC

 

[Kaiser Phoenix]

Why not the D40 (body only) plus the 18-55 VR lens (also sold separately). Or a 50 mm f/1.8 which I think everyone should own anyway! the f/1.8 designation means it has a huge aperture opening, helps a lot in low light and paired with the high ISO ability of the D40 it would be just as good in low light as the 18-55 VR, maybe even better. Plus it can throw backgrounds out of focus better, is probably considerably sharper, and it can be had for a song. Not only that but a larger aperture makes faster shutter speeds possible and that makes it easier to stop motion.

SLC

The thing is, if im going to get the 18--55mm lens, i might as well get the D60 as it comes to pretty much the same price.

What about these lenses?

17-70mm f2.8-4.5 DC Macro HSM
http://www.sigmaphoto.com/lenses/lenses_all_details.asp?id=3327&navigator=6

 

[SLC Flyfishing]

Ahh, I see. I guess that fact slipped by me unnoticed!

SLC

 

[gamerz]

I'm in the same boat as you... almost...

I have been doing my research extensively and still haven't come up with what DSLR I will purchase. The best thing I recommend you to do is to go to the store and compare the two side by side. Personally, I would go with the D40. The D60, and D40x for that matter is pretty much the same as a D40, with some extra mega pixels (which apparently add alot of noise), and the D60 has some gimmicky features. If you do decide to go with the D40, I have heard that it is best to buy the body on its own, and get the lens of your choice instead of the kit lens.

Just my 2 cents. Happy hunting!

 

[Kaiser Phoenix]

I'm in the same boat as you... almost...

I have been doing my research extensively and still haven't come up with what DSLR I will purchase. The best thing I recommend you to do is to go to the store and compare the two side by side. Personally, I would go with the D40. The D60, and D40x for that matter is pretty much the same as a D40, with some extra mega pixels (which apparently add alot of noise), and the D60 has some gimmicky features. If you do decide to go with the D40, I have heard that it is best to buy the body on its own, and get the lens of your choice instead of the kit lens.

Just my 2 cents. Happy hunting!

I think I will get the D40 and the Nikon 16-85mm VR f3.5-5.6g ED AF-S DX Nikkor Lens

Then when i upgrade, i will still have a good lens plus when i upgrade I can upgrade without lens etc.