Yet Another "OMG GOT MY 30D!" Thread (with problems)

[mkrishnan]

When you nail a shot with a dSLR, sir, you'll know, you'll know. Then it will be like magic and you won't ever regret the little bits of work that go into it. And to be honest I do use my P&S for a lot of things. I've been taking tons of pictures of my kitten with it. It's convenient to keep up on the bookshelf and grab when Iago is doing something cute.

Try these two tutorials:

http://www.creativepro.com/story/feature/12189.html

http://home.online.no/~carnholm/txt/01usmENG.htm

I do play around with the settings, but I actually sort of use some default values, like 200% effect, with the default threshold, and a small radius (0.8 ... I don't completely understand that as I understand how this term is defined, but it seems to work), and I do this by default to photos that are supposed to be sharp, and I stick with it unless I don't like it.

I think if you look here, and maybe more particularly at FredMiranda, there are some really great people who can explain more about this phenomenon to you. But one of those two tutorial pages explains how it's essentially the equivalent of a dark room sharpening process that goes way back.

 

[law guy]

Like some others above, what I'm struck by is that your DOF is razor thin. I think I read about that you were at 105mm and f4.5 - depending on how close you were to the subject, that's very little in-focus area (at 5 feet away, you'll have 1.32 inches of depth in focus). One poster made the point that P&S lenses function differently than SLR lenses - a good point to keep in mind. Those tiny P&S lenses are optimal for their function and low apperture will often be in focus to infinity, although you can push a P&S to a background blur through a "compression" blur when you get right up on a flower or other small object.

If I was checking sharpness, the first place I'd start is with an small apperture setting - up from the 4.5 - and not at the max end of a zoom. I'd want to get the shot in focus and then check for distortions corner-to-corner. Of course, lenses themselves preform differently depending on the zoom and the apperture - some lenses might be praised in the middle of their range and then get criticized wide open for barrel distortion or pin-cushioning close in and may suffer lack of corner clarity at one extreme or the other. Other lenses are fairly good through their range. In your case, I'd shoot mid-zoom at f11 with a fair amount of distance to the focus point. A link to a handy DOF calculator - http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html

I get incredibly sharp output from my 30D with my usual lens - a 24-105 f4L. I very, very rarely post process and that's usually a white balance adjustment to a RAW file (I shoot RAW+JPEG fine and find I like my JPEG files 95% of the time with no retouching). That's not to say I have any disagreement with those who have noted it, I just mention that I don't often find the need with my current set up for what pleases me.

If you do think anything is off - lenses or body - you can always send them into Canon for a through check-up. You can find more information about sending items in for service on the Canon website. By the way - There are plenty of lens review sites - I enjoy: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/, http://www.fredmirana.com, and - probably most of all for quick reference: http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-Zoom-Lens-Reviews.aspx (link to the zoom lens page, but he has fixed as well).

In any event - good luck resolving the issue soon.

 

[law guy]

double posted somehow.

 

[840quadra]

One thing worth checking (and I know it sounds stupid)

You may want to check the calibration of your diopter correction knob for your viewfinder. I was taking a slew of pictures on my 30d and was disappointed by the focus, to find out later, that I was over compensating for blur on the lens, when my diopter was adjusted wrong.

 

[Whiteapple]

One thing worth checking (and I know it sounds stupid)

You may want to check the calibration of your diopter correction knob for your viewfinder. I was taking a slew of pictures on my 30d and was disappointed by the focus, to find out later, that I was over compensating for blur on the lens, when my diopter was adjusted wrong.

Hey that might be it! Could you precise how you do that? I know someone touched that tiny screw next to the viewfinder, maybe he turned it and didnt tell me about it. How do I adjust the viewfinder to the lens?

 

[mkrishnan]

Hey that might be it! Could you precise how you do that? I know someone touched that tiny screw next to the viewfinder, maybe he turned it and didnt tell me about it. How do I adjust the viewfinder to the lens?

Well, first of all, the little knob next to the viewfinder adjusts the viewfinder only. I'm trying to think of a way to explain how to adjust it, because it's one of those things I just know intuitively... At the very minimum, when you look through the viewfinder and the lens is focused on something, it should look sharp through the viewfinder. When you turn the knob either way from that point, it should become blurry. That's when you know it's in the correct place.

Now the second piece of the puzzle is to tell whether the viewfinder and the lens are correctly synched. Normally, if you pick an "easy" thing to autofocus on, then this is obvious, because you see a focused picture in the viewfinder and you get a focused picture when you take the shot. But you're not getting focused pictures, or so we suspect, and so it isn't obvious.

The way I know how to do this is like this:

- Find some way to keep the camera in a stable position, even when you're looking through the viewfinder.
- Get something that is very clearly in or not in focus, for which DoF is NOT an issue... e.g. a ruler with fine markings, and put it a fixed distance away, such as 6' or 2m. The ruler surface should be perpendicular / normal to the line between you and the ruler -- that is, it should all be in the same focal plane. You cannot do this with something like a plastic bag or curved edge of an object where it clearly isn't all in the focal plane at once. It has to be flat and it has to be perpendicular.
- Manually focus the camera on the ruler using the viewfinder.
- If you get a sharp shot, then you know the lens and viewfinder are at least roughly correctly calibrated

Next, you should turn AF back on, and take a picture of the same thing. The picture should appear both in focus in the viewfinder and when you download the picture. AF should not have any trouble focusing on a flat object at a moderate distance -- there should be no failure to iterate, even with the lens relatively wide open (low f/stop). If you did the first thing and it was working (sharp shot in viewfinder and in print), but now you get a blurry picture, then the problem is that your Autofocus is not working correctly.

Does that make sense?

 

[Mantat]

I found out that 90% of the time people complain about the performance of their photo gear, the flaw is in their technique and not the gear itself.

First of all:
- shoot with the best JPEG quality or better yet in RAW if you have a converter software
- forget manual mode, sorry but by looking at your posts you dont seem to master the lightmeter enough
- RTFM to understand the lightmeter + focus points
- shoot in AV
- get a 50mm F1.8 (less than 100$)
- for starter, keep the ISO at 400 and less
- as someone pointed out, look at the DoF calculator
- activate all your focus points

As far as I could tell from the pics you provided, the problem is either your DoF that is too shallow or the metering that is off.

As for postprocessing, if you shoot JPEG it shouldnt be too much needed so you can stay away from it (but it would be a waste).

Finaly, as a general rule, if you want to get the best sharpness off a lens, shoot at F8 ISO 200 in AV mode for a while. This will give you a "feel" of the lens and you can then play with more confidence with the aperture. Also, make sure that your shutter speed is quicker than 1/lens lenght.

Small aperture number doesnt means that the lens is sharp, it means that more light comes in which in turn allow for shorter exposure which result in less camera shake of subject movement which results in sharper image.

 

[Whiteapple]

Well, first of all, the little knob next to the viewfinder adjusts the viewfinder only. I'm trying to think of a way to explain how to adjust it, because it's one of those things I just know intuitively... At the very minimum, when you look through the viewfinder and the lens is focused on something, it should look sharp through the viewfinder. When you turn the knob either way from that point, it should become blurry. That's when you know it's in the correct place.

Now the second piece of the puzzle is to tell whether the viewfinder and the lens are correctly synched. Normally, if you pick an "easy" thing to autofocus on, then this is obvious, because you see a focused picture in the viewfinder and you get a focused picture when you take the shot. But you're not getting focused pictures, or so we suspect, and so it isn't obvious.

The way I know how to do this is like this:

- Find some way to keep the camera in a stable position, even when you're looking through the viewfinder.
- Get something that is very clearly in or not in focus, for which DoF is NOT an issue... e.g. a ruler with fine markings, and put it a fixed distance away, such as 6' or 2m. The ruler surface should be perpendicular / normal to the line between you and the ruler -- that is, it should all be in the same focal plane. You cannot do this with something like a plastic bag or curved edge of an object where it clearly isn't all in the focal plane at once. It has to be flat and it has to be perpendicular.
- Manually focus the camera on the ruler using the viewfinder.
- If you get a sharp shot, then you know the lens and viewfinder are at least roughly correctly calibrated

Next, you should turn AF back on, and take a picture of the same thing. The picture should appear both in focus in the viewfinder and when you download the picture. AF should not have any trouble focusing on a flat object at a moderate distance -- there should be no failure to iterate, even with the lens relatively wide open (low f/stop). If you did the first thing and it was working (sharp shot in viewfinder and in print), but now you get a blurry picture, then the problem is that your Autofocus is not working correctly.

Does that make sense?

AF problem --> Defect?

 

[Whiteapple]

I found out that 90% of the time people complain about the performance of their photo gear, the flaw is in their technique and not the gear itself.

First of all:
- shoot with the best JPEG quality or better yet in RAW if you have a converter software
- forget manual mode, sorry but by looking at your posts you dont seem to master the lightmeter enough
- RTFM to understand the lightmeter + focus points
- shoot in AV
- get a 50mm F1.8 (less than 100$)
- for starter, keep the ISO at 400 and less
- as someone pointed out, look at the DoF calculator
- activate all your focus points

As far as I could tell from the pics you provided, the problem is either your DoF that is too shallow or the metering that is off.

As for postprocessing, if you shoot JPEG it shouldnt be too much needed so you can stay away from it (but it would be a waste).

Finaly, as a general rule, if you want to get the best sharpness off a lens, shoot at F8 ISO 200 in AV mode for a while. This will give you a "feel" of the lens and you can then play with more confidence with the aperture. Also, make sure that your shutter speed is quicker than 1/lens lenght.

Small aperture number doesnt means that the lens is sharp, it means that more light comes in which in turn allow for shorter exposure which result in less camera shake of subject movement which results in sharper image.

Activate all focus points : not select the manually with the square button but leave them all on and let the camera choose?

I'll follow your advice.

 

[coldrain]

Activate all focus points : not select the manually with the square button but leave them all on and let the camera choose?

I'll follow your advice.

Weird advice. The camera can NOT reliably determine what YOU want to have in focus. Since a DSLR (because of its sensor size) has a shallow depth of field compared to a compact digital camera, the correct focus area is very important. Using all AF points only is a good idea when you are tracking a moving subject (with the camera on AI-servo). Else it is a perfect recipe for a lot of misfocussed shots.

This is better advice: Until you are more comfortable with your camera, only use the central AF point. It is the most exact and easiest to use.
Point it on what you want to have in focus (with animals and people, the eyes should be in focus). Then re-composition the shot if need be. This is not ideal in all circumstances, but you will find out it works well and easy.

 

[Whiteapple]

Problem "resolved"

Ok, I tweaked a "bit" with the viewfinder, and the shot I provide was focused manually. I think it is sharp enough, and the camera was still and set on the table, automatic shot also (similar to tripod)

I got the basics, now I need to go in the field, if the sun would come out

High res here

Thanks. I will eventually buy a wider-aperture lens. But no cash now.

 

[Mantat]

Thanks. I will eventually buy a wider-aperture lens. But no cash now.

the 50mm 1.8 is super affordable and is a great general purpose lens. After that, it depends of what you want to shoot.

For exemple, in landscape, wide aperture isnt important, you need lens with a circular aperture ring since you will always have to stop down the lens.

Each specialty has different requirements and you should build your kit around your main subjects.

 

[coldrain]

the 50mm 1.8 is super affordable and is a great general purpose lens. After that, it depends of what you want to shoot.

For exemple, in landscape, wide aperture isnt important, you need lens with a circular aperture ring since you will always have to stop down the lens.

Each specialty has different requirements and you should build your kit around your main subjects.

Circular aperture ring? What do you mean?
On a DSLR like a D50 the aperture setting is set via the camera controls, not on the lens itself.

 

[Whiteapple]

Circular aperture ring? What do you mean?
On a DSLR like a D50 the aperture setting is set via the camera controls, not on the lens itself.

I think he was just talking about the elements inside the lens. Not the f/ value. Thanks for the bit on the AF points, that's what I thought too

Mantat, your 50mm f1.8 really is one hell of a deal. I assume it suits well for Macro (well, for that kind of money at least). I was leaning towards an EF 100mm f2.8 Macro USM lens (1000€ ouch) for Macro and an EF-S 17-55 constant f2.8 for landscape. What d'you think? Should I just replace the 1000€*by the 120€ ? Maybe to start with?

I mean, I'd really like to master my camera first, but hell, these winter days, really no sun, and my lens is cheap (28-105 f3.5 EF I)

 

[coldrain]

I think he was just talking about the elements inside the lens. Not the f/ value. Thanks for the bit on the AF points, that's what I thought too

Mantat, your 50mm f1.8 really is one hell of a deal. I assume it suits well for Macro (well, for that kind of money at least). I was leaning towards an EF 100mm f2.8 Macro USM lens (1000€ ouch) for Macro and an EF-S 17-55 constant f2.8 for landscape. What d'you think? Should I just replace the 1000€*by the 120€ ? Maybe to start with?

I mean, I'd really like to master my camera first, but hell, these winter days, really no sun, and my lens is cheap (28-105 f3.5 EF I)

The 50mm f1.8 is not a macro lens. What makes a lens a macro lens it its internal design, not its focal length. With a macro lens you can get closer and still get things into focus. For the rest they behave the same as their non-macro brothers and sisters with the same focal length.

The only way you are going to get to make macro shots of good quality with that 50mm lens is if you get a set of extension tubes to place between the lens and the camera. These are a bit cumbersome, and the lens' optics do not quite reach the potential of dedicated macro lenses.

There are a lot of very good macro lenses. The Canon 100mm f2.8 macro you mention is a very good lens. It doe snot cost 1000euros though, it really is a bit less like that (around 600 I am guessing).

What macro lenses all are a good choice:
-Sigma 50mm f2.8 macro DG 1:1 macro. Very affordable and very sharp.
-Canon EF-S 60mm f2.8 USM. Only APS-C lens of the macro bunch. Sharp and quick, silent USM focus. Only downside: vignets a bit wide open. But with macro shots you never really use f2.8 in the first place since the depth of field with macro shots ist SO VERY shallow you want to use a smaller aperture (bigger number).
-Tamron SP 90mm f2.8 Di. Very sharp, great colour and contrast. Noisy AF motor, best manual focus ring (gives you more feedback and control than the other lenses). This is the lens I have at the moment.
-Canon EF 100mm f2.8 USM. Does not extend while focussing (the others do), silent fast AF. Is more expensive but almost as sharp as the Tamron, also very good contrast and colour.
-Tamron 180mm f3.5. Still affordable, its 180mm gives you a bigger distance to your subject. Handy with insects. Great performance for a lens of this kind.
-Canon 180mm f3.5 L. most expensive one of the bunch, close to the Tamron in optics, better in AF (silent fast accurate USM).

Any of these macro lenses should give you a lot of joy. They all are very good optically.
As for the EF-S 17-55 f2.8 IS USM, it is very pricey, but it does deliver... sharpness that exceeds the "comparable" lenses from Nikon, Sigma and Tamron, fast and accurate AF due to its USM motor, and IS of course, that can be invaluable in lower light situations at times.

If you do not want to spend just that much in that range, you could consider the new Sigma 18-50mm f2.8 macro. And the Tamron 17-50 f2.8. Both are quite good, and cost more than half less.

But you do have quite a good lens in that 28-105mm f3.5-4.5. So you might just get other lenses first... Personally I use a much wider lens for landscape stuff. A Tokina 12-24mm f4. Very good colour and contrast. Only downside: at 12mm quite some chromatic aberations. Another wide angle zoom worth to consider (but more expensive, and do not forget to order its sun hood, it does not come standard but is very needed), the Canon 10-22mm f3.5-4.5. These two wide angle zooms should give you very nice possibilities for landscape photos, and they would complement your focal range of the 28-105mm quite well.

Example of the Tokina 12-24mm f4 at 12mm: