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You wont believe this!!!!
- Thread starter cforand1293
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zoomzoomzoom said he has found that its not the OP's fault, It's Apple's fault,that the HD was erased. The OP said it doesnt fell like his computer. How do we know that the truck didn't crash? sure i'ts a long shot, but the point is people have to start learning common sense, sure nothing SHOULD go wrong, if we live in a perfect world, but to take a leaf out of Stan's book (American Dad) "We don't live in should land." I would be thinking of every possibility of worst case scenarios.
I actually don't back stuff up as a rule, but things that I don't want to lose, photo's etc, I burn to DVD. But as soon as you send your computer anywhere, well thats a different story.
Apple should have made it clear that you need to back up your data, but people need to start taking responsibility for their own actions, or lackof.
There's another point I found strange, that no one has mentioned, the OP said he has lost all of his programs and will have to buy some again, well all of my programs are on disk, even those downloaded off the net, and even then you pay for the serial #, so if you have to download again you should still have a serial #.
well I'm ranting too much so I'll stop now!
I actually don't back stuff up as a rule, but things that I don't want to lose, photo's etc, I burn to DVD. But as soon as you send your computer anywhere, well thats a different story.
Apple should have made it clear that you need to back up your data, but people need to start taking responsibility for their own actions, or lackof.
There's another point I found strange, that no one has mentioned, the OP said he has lost all of his programs and will have to buy some again, well all of my programs are on disk, even those downloaded off the net, and even then you pay for the serial #, so if you have to download again you should still have a serial #.
well I'm ranting too much so I'll stop now!
Question - why is everybody concerned with Apple touching his HD?
When I send in my tax returns (at least when I file by mail), or file for a rebate, or do anything where losing my material would be bad, I make a copy. In other words I back it up. I think this is the issue a lot of people are taking with the lost data. In other words, it would be good for Apple to remind you, but it should be common sense that if you have irreplaceable data, back it up (and know where your back ups are - I lost some old college papers b/c I can't find the disk where I stored them). So yes, common sense dictates that you should have known to back up your data.
Now, if we are talking about common sense and application, those are different things. While all my photos are backed up to an external, I've been meaning to back them up to DVD. But, I haven't. I should, and I will, and I mean to do it, but I haven't. We all do that. So don't be too hard on the guy...
When I send in my tax returns (at least when I file by mail), or file for a rebate, or do anything where losing my material would be bad, I make a copy. In other words I back it up. I think this is the issue a lot of people are taking with the lost data. In other words, it would be good for Apple to remind you, but it should be common sense that if you have irreplaceable data, back it up (and know where your back ups are - I lost some old college papers b/c I can't find the disk where I stored them). So yes, common sense dictates that you should have known to back up your data.
Now, if we are talking about common sense and application, those are different things. While all my photos are backed up to an external, I've been meaning to back them up to DVD. But, I haven't. I should, and I will, and I mean to do it, but I haven't. We all do that. So don't be too hard on the guy...
1) The flame war in this thread is stupid. You should all go home.
2) The OP should have backed up his data. Even my mom would have thought to make copies of her important files at least. Even if Apple didn't tell him to, it's still his responsibility, regardless of what anyone thinks is fair.
3) I've never been to an Apple store, called AppleCare, or got a prepaid shipping box from Apple without being told to backup my HDD at least twice during the conversation. I have a hard time believing it wasn't said or written somewhere in the exchange.
4) I'll agree that it would be very nice, and proactive, of AppleCare to label all return shipping boxes very, very clearly that all data should be backed up before sending it in. In fact, if Apple wanted to be super cool guys they should give anyone who is having warranty repair done a free 90 day .Mac account to do an automated and secure backup prior to the return shipping.
2) The OP should have backed up his data. Even my mom would have thought to make copies of her important files at least. Even if Apple didn't tell him to, it's still his responsibility, regardless of what anyone thinks is fair.
3) I've never been to an Apple store, called AppleCare, or got a prepaid shipping box from Apple without being told to backup my HDD at least twice during the conversation. I have a hard time believing it wasn't said or written somewhere in the exchange.
4) I'll agree that it would be very nice, and proactive, of AppleCare to label all return shipping boxes very, very clearly that all data should be backed up before sending it in. In fact, if Apple wanted to be super cool guys they should give anyone who is having warranty repair done a free 90 day .Mac account to do an automated and secure backup prior to the return shipping.
cforand1293 said:
In the last three years I've had to send two powerbooks in (different ones) and I had to sign a sheet of paper I put in with the powerbook that I understood that data can/will be wiped.
You probably got a brand new MacBook. Did the SN change?
I Love what a simple search of the Apple Knowledge base will do. You can blame Apple all you want (because it's so much easier to blame someone else for our mistakes) but Data Back-up is all over the place. It's in your computers documentation, included with the checklist that comes with the repair box, and all over the support pages. Granted the Apple Care Agent should have told you that you needed to back-up your data before sending it in, but they didn't. Thats why its located everywhere else in case you look over it, or someone forgets to tell you. You say you have been a long time computer user, then in reality you should have known that data back-up is a necessity especially when sending it away.
Here's what the knowledge base says http://www.apple.com/support for the newer ones here...
How to Back-Up Your Files:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106941
How to Back-Up and Restore Important Files:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=301239
How to Back-Up iTunes Files:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=302392
I find this next one very applicable in this situation:
Preparing your computer for mail-in repair:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=301901
It's possible they needed to run the diagnostic software and there wasn't enough space, there are so many possibilities why it was erased. But in reality it doesn't matter. Calling Apple won't do anything because this is documented everywhere. But if you're happy just blaming Apple for all your woes then go right ahead. I personally blame the little bunnies and puppies for all the war over oil in this world. It's their fault they died and were compressed into oil as a result of the pressure.
Here's what the knowledge base says http://www.apple.com/support for the newer ones here...
How to Back-Up Your Files:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106941
How to Back-Up and Restore Important Files:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=301239
How to Back-Up iTunes Files:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=302392
I find this next one very applicable in this situation:
Preparing your computer for mail-in repair:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=301901
It's possible they needed to run the diagnostic software and there wasn't enough space, there are so many possibilities why it was erased. But in reality it doesn't matter. Calling Apple won't do anything because this is documented everywhere. But if you're happy just blaming Apple for all your woes then go right ahead. I personally blame the little bunnies and puppies for all the war over oil in this world. It's their fault they died and were compressed into oil as a result of the pressure.
THE FINIAL CHAPTER!!!! so i just got off the phone with apple. The said it is there FAULT!!! That they would be more than happy to recover my data and give me a new version of Leopard!!! Yeah right...They did say that the apple care rep should have told me to back up my system. The also said that it is not common knowledge and this is an issue that they are working on. (Finding another way to make sure you know) So yes I have learned my lesson. I will back my system up before any repairs are done..Speaking of repairs my Mac is still having the same problems!!!! So off to apple it goes again. Thanks for all your input on this subject. Some of you were great and some of you can go to He**....just kidding, thanks guys have a great day!
cforand
cforand
kwood said:
It wasn't the bunnies or puppies fault! It was those pesky T-Rex and Raptors that had to go all die at once.
Good to hear, cforand1293.
BTW, my points above were not that people shouldn't back up their systems. Obviously, they should (also, just as obviously - see the WWDC keynote - they don't).
However, as a company that markets systems that are supposed to be easier and more intuitive to use and therefore as a company that's intentionally courting non-techie users, Apple should make backup requirements - and instructions - clear and obvious. To many people, sending in a system to have part "A" fixed doesn't imply to them that part "C" will be replaced or erased. The fact that they should realize it doesn't mean that they do.
Clearly, cforand1293's post implies that they will go through effort for a customer whose data had been lost. I'm just saying that it'd take a lot less effort and cause less grief to do this proactively.
Hopefully, Time Machine will make backups easier; Apple's backup solutions, including Backup, have always been, at best, mediocre. So, I think that Apple should assist people with backing up their systems (detailed instructions, at the very least) - it'd be good PR and, I think, save everyone time and effort in the long run.
BTW, my points above were not that people shouldn't back up their systems. Obviously, they should (also, just as obviously - see the WWDC keynote - they don't).
However, as a company that markets systems that are supposed to be easier and more intuitive to use and therefore as a company that's intentionally courting non-techie users, Apple should make backup requirements - and instructions - clear and obvious. To many people, sending in a system to have part "A" fixed doesn't imply to them that part "C" will be replaced or erased. The fact that they should realize it doesn't mean that they do.
Clearly, cforand1293's post implies that they will go through effort for a customer whose data had been lost. I'm just saying that it'd take a lot less effort and cause less grief to do this proactively.
Hopefully, Time Machine will make backups easier; Apple's backup solutions, including Backup, have always been, at best, mediocre. So, I think that Apple should assist people with backing up their systems (detailed instructions, at the very least) - it'd be good PR and, I think, save everyone time and effort in the long run.
My $0.02 worth
As an experienced computer user, I absolutely back-up my data any time my computer is going to be handled by someone other than me.
On the other hand, I absolutely expect the average user to be blissfully oblivious to the wisdom of doing so. Good grief, my flatmate can't even get straight in her head the difference between memory and harddrive space. She's not dumb, she just isn't in to computers. A bit like 95% of the population really.
If I left a whole bunch of personal items in my car when I put it in to be serviced (which would be a dumb thing to do), I would still be entitled to expect that they would be there when the car is returned to me. If not, the service company would be liable. It's the same thing for Apple. If they are going to wipe/replace your drive/computer, then they should be backing that data up for you before touching anything else, to restore it afterwards.
Backing up for an experienced tech with the right equipment takes next to no time. Asking a computer user with little or no computer smarts to do the same is ridiculous - the odds of them having a spare harddrive lying around, or having a large online storage space that they know how to access, or knowing how to burn data to multiple CDs etc etc etc is really small. Furthermore, they may not even know where to find some of the sensitive stuff on their harddrive. Apple spends a lot of effort hiding this sort of stuff from the sensitive minds of it's inexperienced users.
So, for what it's worth, any company doing computer repairs should do their level best to back up the client's data for them. Expecting anything else is really unreasonable.
As an experienced computer user, I absolutely back-up my data any time my computer is going to be handled by someone other than me.
On the other hand, I absolutely expect the average user to be blissfully oblivious to the wisdom of doing so. Good grief, my flatmate can't even get straight in her head the difference between memory and harddrive space. She's not dumb, she just isn't in to computers. A bit like 95% of the population really.
If I left a whole bunch of personal items in my car when I put it in to be serviced (which would be a dumb thing to do), I would still be entitled to expect that they would be there when the car is returned to me. If not, the service company would be liable. It's the same thing for Apple. If they are going to wipe/replace your drive/computer, then they should be backing that data up for you before touching anything else, to restore it afterwards.
Backing up for an experienced tech with the right equipment takes next to no time. Asking a computer user with little or no computer smarts to do the same is ridiculous - the odds of them having a spare harddrive lying around, or having a large online storage space that they know how to access, or knowing how to burn data to multiple CDs etc etc etc is really small. Furthermore, they may not even know where to find some of the sensitive stuff on their harddrive. Apple spends a lot of effort hiding this sort of stuff from the sensitive minds of it's inexperienced users.
So, for what it's worth, any company doing computer repairs should do their level best to back up the client's data for them. Expecting anything else is really unreasonable.
demallien said:
I totally agree here but the guy made this comment
cforand1293 said:
Which is confusing, as it is common sense "if you have been on computers all your life" that you should backup your data.
Also if "if you have been on computers all your life" then I would imagine that I can speak for many people here who have lost important data inthe past, it is annoying but most poeple here wouldn't start a thread complaining as if apple as committed some huge sin!!!
You've learnt the hard way, thats life!!!!
Come on now. You are saying you are a newbie, yet you say that your family has had computers for years. People know that backing up is something we should all do but that most of us dont. It is just a lesson you have been given and next time it will not happen, right?
cforand1293 said:
This thread is still going on? The OP knows he needs to backup. We all know he wasn't informed. End of story.
Yup, BERNOULLI!JAT said:
A huge, whopping, overwhelming, MASSIVE... 250MB... or something like that. LOL I still get a bit of a laugh from one of Tom Clancys books, think it was Without Remorse or Executive Orders where he mentions this fictional 1 GB Bernoulli. LOL
cforand1293 said:ok, i had to send my macbook into apple because it would not shut off. I would hit the power button and turn it off, but it would keep running. So i called apple and the had me to this and that. Even had me reset my p-ram. No luck. So I sent it in on Friday, got it back today, but here is were it gets good. I have nothing on my mac. No pics, no music, no files....NOTHING...Is this right? The repair had nothing to do with the hardrive. I will be on the phone first thing with apple trying to get this fixed. The strange thing is it doesnt even feel like my old computer. The SS is the same, but i am very confused. Has this happend to anyone else? i need time machine!!!
Some things don't seem to add up here, this may have been a very poor phone support person or someone is yanking our chain. I'm inclined to believe the former but I have a few questions.
1) How did you manage to zap the PRAM if you can't shut off the computer?
2) Why didn't the phone support suggest backing up and doing a completely clean re-install to rule out a device driver/bad software that might somehow interfere with the OS detecting when the power button is hit?
3) Why didn't you try a clean install to be sure it wasn't some software/hardware you installed interfering with the OS power button detection? (if you've been around computers all your life you shouldn't be a stranger to re-installing the OS as a diagnostic step)
4) Did they at least have you try to boot from a CD to verify that it was a HW issue with the power button and not errant software on the MB?
Like I said I'm inclined to believe you and say the person you talked to on the phone was very incompetent, but these questions are stuck in my head.
What it seems like to me is this kid just had a very bad combination of: uneducated phone support that didn't remind him to backup his data, no warnings to backup his data from the place where he sent it, and lack of basic computer knowledge altogether.
Case Closed.
Case Closed.
This was the case when I sent in my MB for repair.iHotu said:
<beating the dead horse>
The packing instructions for my prepaid shipping box were VERY CLEAR. Did you get a prepaid box, cforand1293? If so, I'd encourage you to try reading next time - it does wonders!
</beating the dead horse>
"You should always back up before sending it in"
BS.
You should *always* back up. If you're not backing up when you're NOT sending in your hardware, you're STILL asking for trouble. You should always back up as often as you are comfortable with re-doing. For some people it's daily, others weekly, others monthly. Regardless, if you don't back up, you must be comfortable with doing everything over again.
BS.
You should *always* back up. If you're not backing up when you're NOT sending in your hardware, you're STILL asking for trouble. You should always back up as often as you are comfortable with re-doing. For some people it's daily, others weekly, others monthly. Regardless, if you don't back up, you must be comfortable with doing everything over again.
Apple made it really clear to me to back up my data...they even offered to walk me through backing up my data and sending me a list of what data is commonly stored where.
On the other hand, if the data is that important too you, why wouldn't you back it up, even if Apple had said they would protect your data? Is it worth the risk? My data is too valuable to me to trust it to someone else, no matter how sure they are it will be protected. If it comes back in perfect condition, great...I don't have to spend time recovering from a back up...but on the chance that something will go wrong, you'll still have a copy.
On the other hand, if the data is that important too you, why wouldn't you back it up, even if Apple had said they would protect your data? Is it worth the risk? My data is too valuable to me to trust it to someone else, no matter how sure they are it will be protected. If it comes back in perfect condition, great...I don't have to spend time recovering from a back up...but on the chance that something will go wrong, you'll still have a copy.
demallien said:
I agree that this would be great, but in reality you would/should still back up your data. I would feel more comfortable knowing I had my data safe. What if the computer gets damaged while in transit?
cforand1293 said:
no offence, but even if Apple believe that it's common sense, they are not going to tell the customer that.
bearbo said:
ARE YOU SERIOUS?
NO
everyone should backup atleast weekly if they are sending their computer off or not, i backup to a second HDD evernight just in cast HHD fails or summin
kered22 said:Yup, BERNOULLI!
The ones I saw were 40MB, I think the Zip was 250MB
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