iPod Zune first impressions

[Chundles]

Is anything too expensive for Microsoft? They'll just make up for it by charging more for Windows and Office.

BTW, why the argument over widescreen, the Zune has a 3" screen - bigger. Microsoft has more experience with Windows Media which includes video. The only real thing Microsoft has problems with is compatibility. I'm expecting people that have a Zune to experience, at one point, a blue screen...

It's a 3" screen at the same resolution ie. no more information. I wish people would stop saying that the 3" screen is the best thing about the Zune, it's got no more real estate than the 2.5" screen on the iPod because both of them are 320x240 - you don't get any more image when you use a bigger screen if the res is the same.

iPod resolution = 160 pixels/inch
Zune resolution = 133.33 pixels/inch

Thus when viewing the same image on the iPod and the Zune the iPod would be clearer. Viewing the same text would show more "blockiness" on the Zune.

For the Zune to get the same image clarity as the iPod it would need to have a screen resolution of 288x384 (remember, the screen is in portrait orientation). This would give the Zune the same 160 pixels/inch resolution of the iPod, making both images as clear as each other but as you can see there would now be 33,792 more pixels for the Zune to use to display more information. 3" at 240x320 is no better than 2.5" at 320x240, if MS wanted to upstage the iPod's gorgeous screen they should have upped the resolution of the screen.

 

[davidjearly]

Never having used the Zune, how would you make this decision?

Look at it, it's all there. The old style iPod controls were not as good as the 5G controls.

Im not advocating people go out and drop their ipods en masse. I am, however, very very impressed with Microsoft's attempt with a V1 product. And I cant be more clear: this is a V1, not a 5th or 6th generation product.

Yes, it is a V1 product, 5 or 6 Generations too late! And I can't see MS putting any innovative ideas into it in any future revision.

Apple has a clear leg up, and they wont be feeling the competition for quite some time. Microsoft has not really tried to compete up until this point. They have allowed their model to try to succeed in a market for which they were completely unprepared.

MS have allowed what exactly? Hopefully you have the brains not to be suggesting that Apple has only been so successful because MS haven't attempted to compete - until not. If so, then that is just nonsense.

Now they are prepared, now they are learning from Apple and now, more importantly, they are realizing that they need to adapt their business model to be more like apple.

You mean, they are imitating Apple (albeit badly). Adapt their business model how? With Music subscriptions? I don't see no adaptation, I see the same old same old from the same old company that forces stuff down peoples necks using its financial monopoly.

What I am saying is that this hardware reflects the new model. Their software reflects the new model. If you had never known that this Zune was made by Microsoft and you just picked it up in a store, you would swear Apple had designed the software.

I really REALLY doubt I would think Apple have designed any aspect of this thing including the software. The last time I checked, my iPod didn't have a cluttered menu system with ugly backgrounds.

As far as the fact that they are two different products, you're making an assumption. The Zune doesnt really do anything that the current ipod video doesnt do. I totally see them as competing products. If apple "one ups" them with the next release (a year out?) than that is just great news for all of us!!!

They are different products and I am making no assumption. MS is clearly aiming this oversized brick as a better video player than Apple's 5G iPod. Hence the landscape screen orientation when viewing movies (which I note is the same resolution as Apple's smaller screen).

The only benefit I can see from MS Zune player is the fact that it will prevent Apple from sitting around doing nothing with their iPod because they have a little competiton. Although, I could never see them doing this anyway.

 

[someguy]

All I want to know is... what the hell does "Zune" mean, anyways?

 

[DubbaJ]

All I want to know is... what the hell does "Zune" mean, anyways?

I think it's Latin for "We probably would have been more successful with this 2 years ago".

 

[Synapple]

I would really love to understand how the software on the Zune has left such an impression on the OP...
Already asked by a fellow poster but I'll reiterate: care to elaborate on this?

lol @ the screen size debate

 

[qtip919]

I would really love to understand how the software on the Zune has left such an impression on the OP...
Already asked by a fellow poster but I'll reiterate: care to elaborate on this?

lol @ the screen size debate

For confidentiality reasons, I cannot.

However, I can say this:

1. I love the Mac OS, the iPod UI and Apple's general hardware/software solutions.
2. I HATE the MS operating system, their "new" longhorn, and most of the garbage they create year after year

This being said, I was absolutely blown away by the Zune interface. I was really in awe of how well they have done to use the strengths of the ipod and iterate on some of their weaknesses.

For example, if you click on a song within the ipod UI, you get several screens, one after another and the most ANNOYING thing is that you cannot "tag" a song when doing this to make it part of your automated "on the go" playlist. To do this, you need to back out to the playlist, scroll down (potentially) and find the song, click and hold it and wait for it to flash.

This, in my opinion, is one of their most undiscoverable poorly designed features.

Zune's way of doing everything listed above is fantastic. However, you are just going to have to experience it for yourself.

TO ALL THOSE WHO THINK I AM POSTING THIS FOR MARKETING A MS PRODUCT:

Whatever, go crawl in your self-righteous hole and brag about our 4% marketshare some more...

Look, All I am saying is that this is to our collective benefit as APPLE CUSTOMERS. I think the past couple of ipod designs have made the ipod worse. Honestly. I could care less about video capability, I just want something with good battery life. Also, I HATE the new hardware...far too delicate...and battery life is sub-par to what they could be producing. I wish they would go back to a more modest design with the screens, extend battery life, make digital output, and iterate on the ability for the ipod to help you LISTEN TO YOUR MUSIC!!

 

[qtip919]

Is anything too expensive for Microsoft? They'll just make up for it by charging more for Windows and Office.

BTW, why the argument over widescreen, the Zune has a 3" screen - bigger. Microsoft has more experience with Windows Media which includes video. The only real thing Microsoft has problems with is compatibility. I'm expecting people that have a Zune to experience, at one point, a blue screen...

Look, everyone has this worry...I wouldnt assume this was impossible...but lets face facts: this isnt an OS, and an MP3 players OS is pretty darn easy to get right....

however...you just never know

 

[amin]

It's a 3" screen at the same resolution ie. no more information. I wish people would stop saying that the 3" screen is the best thing about the Zune, it's got no more real estate than the 2.5" screen on the iPod because both of them are 320x240 - you don't get any more image when you use a bigger screen if the res is the same.

iPod resolution = 160 pixels/inch
Zune resolution = 133.33 pixels/inch

Thus when viewing the same image on the iPod and the Zune the iPod would be clearer. Viewing the same text would show more "blockiness" on the Zune.

For the Zune to get the same image clarity as the iPod it would need to have a screen resolution of 288x384 (remember, the screen is in portrait orientation). This would give the Zune the same 160 pixels/inch resolution of the iPod, making both images as clear as each other but as you can see there would now be 33,792 more pixels for the Zune to use to display more information. 3" at 240x320 is no better than 2.5" at 320x240, if MS wanted to upstage the iPod's gorgeous screen they should have upped the resolution of the screen.

I disagree. I haven't seen the Zune, nor do I like its design, but I think a larger screen is better in this case. My Ipaq 4700 had the same number of pixels as its Dell counterpart, 640 x 480, but the larger screen of the Ipaq is much nicer. I don't think the iPod needs as much pixel density as it has; and I would prefer a larger screen, even though it means a lower resolution in this case.

 

[Synapple]

For confidentiality reasons, I cannot.

However, I can say this:

1. I love the Mac OS, the iPod UI and Apple's general hardware/software solutions.
2. I HATE the MS operating system, their "new" longhorn, and most of the garbage they create year after year

This being said, I was absolutely blown away by the Zune interface. I was really in awe of how well they have done to use the strengths of the ipod and iterate on some of their weaknesses.

For example, if you click on a song within the ipod UI, you get several screens, one after another and the most ANNOYING thing is that you cannot "tag" a song when doing this to make it part of your automated "on the go" playlist. To do this, you need to back out to the playlist, scroll down (potentially) and find the song, click and hold it and wait for it to flash.

This, in my opinion, is one of their most undiscoverable poorly designed features.

Zune's way of doing everything listed above is fantastic. However, you are just going to have to experience it for yourself.

Thanks for going back to this point.

As you say I will probably have to hold one in my hand before understanding why you judged the OS on the Zune this impressive.
Nonetheless, you seem to imply they literally copied the iPod software and improved it where it seemed lacking.
Fine.
Besides, I would judge an OS "impressive" or "incredible" when introducing a revolutionary system or an innovative approach to doing things: OTOH, cloning a system and ironing out minor aspects of it (frankly, the example you mentioned seems pretty minor to me) doesn't "blow me away" or "leave me in awe".
But that's just me and I understand you had a good experience with the Zune.

 

[qtip919]

I'll try explain a little better. Basically it comes down to your eyes tricking you and I'm guessing a different source video; the iPod and the Zune screens are actually the same shape as demonstrated by this image I just 'shopped together. Both source images were from the respective companies' media resources to make sure the images weren't already squished, though I've of course reduced the Zune's overall size.

It is now fairly obvious that they are the same shape. We know they both have the same pixel resolution, 320px by 240px, so using the same source files you'll have the same amount of black bars on both.

You're probably wondering why you thought the Zune was less of a square shape and why you 'definitely saw more black' on the iPod! It comes down to a few factors.

Firstly, the reason the Zune screen looks less like a box is because the overall shape and position of the screen creates an optical illusion. Being on the same 'angle' with the Zune shape makes you unconsciencely associate the two shapes.

Now onto why you saw more black bars on the iPod, this isn't an optical illusion and you were probably right, you may have experienced less black on the Zune. In this case it is likely because of the source, but before I get onto that I'll mention another possible reason. Most pics I've seen of the Zune playing video in landscape view had a play bar down the bottom, if it was present it is the sort of thing you don't think about, so possibly there was equal black, but the play bar filled some of that space and the entire video was shifted up.

If that wasn't the reason then it will be because of the source video. You mentioned that 4:3 and 16:9 confuses you, so you are unlikely to know the following... While most TVs are only in those two sizes, movies have a much broader range of aspect ratios. You'd notice this if you had a widescreen TV, some movies have no black bars, while others have significant black bars. Most comedies, dramas and 'regular' movies are filmed in 16:9, so on the widescreen TV they fill the screen. Epic films on the other hand, such as Star Wars, Lord of the Rings and Ben-Hur, are filmed a lot wider to give a more, well, epic feel. This means on all TVs you see a fair bit of black space. For example compare these screenshots of Return of the King with Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

So, if you had a movie like 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea on your iPod then you would be watching a lot of nothing, whereas Microsoft may have been demoing their units with more regular movies like The Wizard of Oz; still widescreen, but a lot less!

Here is why I said this was all smoke and mirrors:

 

[balamw]

Here is why I said this was all smoke and mirrors:

Definitely bigger, but that still doesn't make it widescreen.

EDIT: Since they have the same resolution if you hold the iPod at 2.5/3 of the distance as the Zune they will give the same image on your retina. i.e if you place the Zune 12 inches from your eye (or the camera) and the iPod at 10 inches you won't see a difference anymore.

B

 

[MacinDoc]

BTW, why the argument over widescreen, the Zune has a 3" screen - bigger. Microsoft has more experience with Windows Media which includes video. The only real thing Microsoft has problems with is compatibility. I'm expecting people that have a Zune to experience, at one point, a blue screen...

It's because both players display the exact same amount of information. You could make a 52" TV with a resolution of 320 X 240, but nobody would want to watch it, because you'd just see the same number of pixels as you'd get on a 12" TV, the pixels would only be larger and the picture more blocky.

The extra 0.5" the Zune has means nothing without a higher resolution. And "widescreen" refers to the ratio of width to height on the screen, which is identical on both players. Neither player is more "widescreen" than the other.

Definitely bigger, but that still doesn't make it widescreen.

EDIT: Since they have the same resolution if you hold the iPod at 2.5/3 of the distance as the Zune they will give the same image on your retina. i.e if you place the Zune 12 inches from your eye (or the camera) and the iPod at 10 inches you won't see a difference anymore.

B

Exactly. Or wear reading glasses with 1.2 X magnification while watching your iPod, the effect would be the same.

 

[kineticpast]

Here is why I said this was all smoke and mirrors:

/me bangs head against wall...

For goodness sake, we all know the Zune is bigger, have you not read any of the comments here?

 

[balamw]

/me bangs head against wall...

Well he is fooling himself a bit with perspective by placing the zune further away and taking the picture at an angle so it looks a smidge narrower.

That's it! The Zune's secret weapon is that to view widescreen movies you have to hold the suna at just the right angle so it looks 16:9 thus giving you 30% more vertical resolution. You have to hold it real steady though, otherwise people will tend to look like stick figures.

B

 

[ZoomZoomZoom]

Nice, informative and pretty unbiased review.

The Zune justifies the size by offerring a better screen.

Yep. It's like people who are wishing for 17'' MBPs to magically have a 15'' diagonal. Whether or not the bigger screen is useful is another question. I wouldn't know; I'm not an on-the-go video guy.

Anyways, I think that this shows that the Zune as a piece of hardware is a competitor and not a flop. However, whether or not it'll have the software and branding power to make it a competitor to Apple will remain to be seen.

 

[balamw]

Yep. It's like people who are wishing for 17'' MBPs to magically have a 15'' diagonal. Whether or not the bigger screen is useful is another question. I wouldn't know; I'm not an on-the-go video guy.

Not really a good analogy, since the 15" and 17" have different resolutions unlike the Zune and iPod screens. The 17" can display more information than the 15".

The comparison between the 12" iBook G4 and the 14" would have been more appropriate since they shared the same resolution, but at different sizes.

B

 

[clayj]

Great review, qtip!

While I've firmly embraced the iPod, I think the Zune holds a lot of promise, and I'll be buying one when they're released. Like a lot of folks, I have never bought any music from iTMS (I don't buy bits, I buy CDs), so I can play my music on ANY device I want.

The only real complaint I have with the Zune at this point is that the 30 GB HD is not big enough. I need at least 40 GB to hold all of my music.

 

[2nyRiggz]

Wow, there are a lot of long post in this thread so let me break it down some...you are impressed by the zune..thats great for you. I'm not interested in purchasing one because it won't play my itunes purchased music and it won't work on macs but I do want to see what it can do.

Yup the screen is bigger but its at the same res. (if I'm reading correct) so hands down there is really nothing there but bigger pixels but hey...whatever right..fight to the death.

I would buy anything except creative players.


Bless

 

[MacinJosh]

Here is why I said this was all smoke and mirrors:

Geez... how thick is your head?

 

[clayj]

The Dark Side of Zune™:

 

[gloss]

That is so true.

 

[huck500]

Without going into the whole screen size thing, which has been addressed in multiple posts and apparently ignored, it's amazing to me that MS decided not to go with a wide screen... I guess it would be a design challenge to fit the controls on the device, but I won't be buying a replacement for my iPod until someone releases a widescreen player. I had a PSP for a while, and after watching Deadwood on that big, beautiful (slowly refreshing) screen there's no way that Apple's 'video' iPods are going to work for me.

If Apple releases a real video iPod that also stores all my music, I'll be first in line.

I kind of like the more rugged, customizable concept of the Zune, personally, but there's absolutely no way I'll be using their software, Mac version or not, if it's anything like Media Center.

 

[spicyapple]

Things Apple can do to improve on the iPod (video):
1. Use icons for navigation, instead of a text listing (copy Blackberry, for example. )
2. Increase screen resolution and size (480x360), portrait orientation.
3. Aluminum finish, ala nanos

Things that will definitely kill Zune:
1. DRM-infection of all your music (whether you want it or not)
2. Limited video playback
3. Lack of a comparable iTunes jukebox software.

 

[Chris Bangle]

I say that the Zune has a bit of personallity. It something different, sadly everyone has an ipod and they dont realy seem that special anymore..... The zune for a few weeks after it release will be quite a cool thing to have. In January everything will change but I quite like the zune. Its alrite.

I may completly regret this opinion of the zune one day soon, so Ill cover up by sayin i was half asleep when i wrote this,

(even though its 4.45pm)

 

[wiseguy27]

Things that will definitely kill Zune:
1. DRM-infection of all your music (whether you want it or not)

Actually, Zune does not infect all music with DRM. Any non-protected media that's imported will remain unprotected - it won't add DRM to those files! BUT, what it does do is limit playback to 3 days or 3 times when you receive ANY file from someone else through wireless from another Zune device (even if the file is unprotected and could possibly be a non-copyrighted/personal one). So there goes the utility of beaming one's personal videos or music compositions to friends/relatives/strangers (not that many people are into this, but it still is a crappy restriction).

All the details about Zune are available from a reliable source - http://www.zuneinsider.com - a blog by one of the developers in the Zune team at MS.