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10.6 Snow Leopard PowerPC Development

Status
The first post of this thread is a WikiPost and can be edited by anyone with the appropiate permissions. Your edits will be public.

Should continued work on 10.6.8 PowerPC and Xcode 3.2.X have its own dedicated thread?

  • Yes - The original thread is for the developer previews and all this dev jargon is derailing it!

    Votes: 1 6.7%

  • Yes - I would like to be able to follow and/or contribute to a 10.6.8/Xcode thread specifically

    Votes: 8 53.3%

  • Yes - I would like to be able to follow and/or contribute to a Developer Preview thread specifically

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Indifferent - I don't care either way i just appreciate the work that's being done

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • No - The thread is already for Snow Leopard on PowerPC and all discussion is welcome and relevant

    Votes: 6 40.0%
  • Total voters
    15
  • Poll closed .
Jazzzny said:
Can you not strip the system binaries? This only makes development harder, as it is no longer possible to easily compare binaries with stock 10.6 to see if they are modifed.

Additionally, I believe that development cannot be sustainably done this way. If your goal is to reduce the number of images floating around, then there should be a centralized way (i.e. master AFP server) where developers can update files, and from which images automatically get built from). Otherwise, development will eventually sprawl into a mess of different images based on different images.
Click to expand...

I agree to both of the points.

For consistency and transparency in development we need to have a procedure to start from the stock 10.6.8 and arrive to 10.6.8 ppc, reproducibly, and so that all replaced components can either be built from source (if desired) or borrowed from the publicly accessible server (if those are buildable from source), or otherwise borrowed from existing Apple images (10a190, 10.5.8 etc.).
The only exception to this may be patched binaries which @educovas made to fix some issues to make 10.6.8 bootable. Those can be provided “as is”.
 
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barracuda156 said:
@ChrisCharman @educovas Please find some way to have updated OpenGL stuff for NVidia systems too (whether as an image, a package or at least a set of files to replace against the delta5).
Click to expand...

I’m unsure what you mean here mate? All of the same GPUs supported by Leopard should be supported already, including Nvidia. Do you mean that you would like an update for the custom .dmg that has the 10A190 components still? The one that @educovas made custom for you?
 
barracuda156 said:
I agree to both of the points.

For consistency and transparency in development we need to have a procedure to start from the stock 10.6.8 and arrive to 10.6.8 ppc, reproducibly, and so that all replaced components can either be built from source (if desired) or borrowed from the publicly accessible server (if those are buildable from source), or otherwise borrowed from existing Apple images (10a190, 10.5.8 etc.).
The only exception to this may be patched binaries which @educovas made to fix some issues to make 10.6.8 bootable. Those can be provided “as is”.
Click to expand...

For clarification, by stripping binaries, i mean removing the intel slices from the system using tools like monolingual, not removing the binaries completely, but yes that has been reverted for now. Just waiting for the .dmg to upload to the garden.
 
ChrisCharman said:
*In order to get internet connection, the IP address, subnet mask and router address must still be entered into network preferences. Cloudflare 1.1.1.1, 1.0.0.1 and Google 8.8.8.8 DNS servers can also be added via the network prefpane in System Preferences if required.
Click to expand...

So DHCP remains broken, but UDP works?
 
ChrisCharman said:
I’m unsure what you mean here mate? All of the same GPUs supported by Leopard should be supported already, including Nvidia. Do you mean that you would like an update for the custom .dmg that has the 10A190 components still? The one that @educovas made custom for you?
Click to expand...

Yes, I mean the image with newer components from 10a190 as opposed to 10.5.8, which @educovas shared earlier.
 
ChrisCharman said:
Both excellent points

@Jazzzny A large number of system binaries are already ppc only at this point, but it does make sense to not strip the disk images uploaded for sharing and testing - i will upload a different image to the one previously prepared.

I have been thinking about that a lot in recent weeks, and have just registered a domain and hosting. I’m planning to have a base .dmg hosted there for remote restores (if people would want this) but primarily as a repository for all of the built replacement parts for people to download.

Delta updates can then be provided via update packages, once we have tested and verified on multiple systems.



@educovas Good shout! I’d forgotten about that one, i’ll add to the re-image before uploading.

By the way, word of caution to anybody testing on a PowerBook, at least on the machine i was using earlier today it seems that the thermal power management and fan control are not quite right currently. After spending quite some time booted into 10.6.8 images, upon rebooting there was a rapid and noticeable increase in fan speed using 10.5.8 to cool the system down. This was sustained for quite a while.

Another power management related issue is upon shutdown from 10.6.8 followed by immediate boot the system will not power on (occurred on 2 x separate PowerBooks). I believed it to be an issue with the first machine until realising that a cold boot after draining all power resolved the issue until the next shutdown from 10.6.8.

I’ll extend the table and add to the issues in the wiki.
Click to expand...
I've been working on 10.6.8 PPC this entire time on a PowerBook and never had any problems with power management. The fans always behave like 10.5.8.
 
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ChrisCharman said:
I must have a problem with both PowerBooks then. Sleep and Power management still need updating either way.
Click to expand...
sleep doesn't work and I don't think it ever will, unfortunately.

ChrisCharman said:
@educovas in your original images, did you use stock 10A190 or the updated versions as a parts bin?
Click to expand...
I used a stock 10A190 with my own updates (graphics acceleration, network, replaced binaries that were Intel only, etc) using the binaries from 10.5.8.
 
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educovas said:
sleep doesn't work and I don't think it ever will, unfortunately.
Click to expand...

I remember you said that about internet once. Time and community efforts tend to fix most issues eventually.

educovas said:
I used a stock 10A190 with my own updates (graphics acceleration, network, replaced binaries that were Intel only, etc) using the binaries from 10.5.8.
Click to expand...

Ok thanks. Just trying to sort through what’s come from where so it can be documented in the wikipost.

The only things that remain unclear are the binary wrappers for XNU et al.
 
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educovas said:
Finally tested your image and I can confirm network does work. DHCP also works but internet did not work at first, I had to set my IPs manually then changed back to DHCP and it worked properly.

File sharing does not work but I think I can fix it now.

Btw, I see your network was showing up here on the preferred networks list.
Click to expand...
Excellent!

Yeah i think in a rush to create the second image i didn’t quite remove everything. Luckily no personal data on there but may be other user related configuration files and logs unfortunately.

@barracuda156

I can’t remember if i replaced the troublesome AHCI kexts or not, so haven’t added to the change log. Feel like i definitely did in the first image i planned to upload but second guessing the second. Worth testing though if able as my 11,2 has power supply issues still.
 
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No joy for me on the network front.
I installed the kerboros package from the top of the thread and it doesn't fix the DNS or DHCP issues.
Network browse still doesn't show anything on the network.
ntpdate (uses UDP) doesn't work.
I'm using ethernet on a G4 iMac6.3
Reverted back and forth from manual to DHCP.
Rebooted.
Still doesn't work.
 
atester2001 said:
No joy for me on the network front.
I installed the kerboros package from the top of the thread and it doesn't fix the DNS or DHCP issues.
Network browse still doesn't show anything on the network.
ntpdate (uses UDP) doesn't work.
I'm using ethernet on a G4 iMac6.3
Reverted back and forth from manual to DHCP.
Rebooted.
Still doesn't work.
Click to expand...
Yes, it seems that the other binaries i replaced are necessary as well. If you don’t want to download the new image (although i recommend it as it contains other fixes) you will have to manually replace the intel only files, which are mostly related to CUPS.

New image: 10.6.8_PPC_A5

If using an earlier image, the following binaries must be replaced with PowerPC versions either built from source or directly from 10.5.8:


Code: 
* /usr/bin/cancel
* /usr/bin/cups-calibrate
* /usr/bin/cupstestdsc
* /usr/bin/cupstestppd
* /usr/bin/escputil
* /usr/bin/hiutil
* /usr/bin/lp
* /usr/bin/lpoptions
* /usr/bin/lppasswd
* /usr/bin/lpq
* /usr/bin/lpr
* /usr/bin/lprm
* /usr/bin/lpstat
* /usr/bin/tclsh8.4
* /usr/sbin/accept
* /usr/sbin/amt
* /usr/sbin/cups-genppd.5.2
* /usr/sbin/cups-genppdupdate
* /usr/sbin/cupsaccept
* /usr/sbin/cupsaddsmb
* /usr/sbin/cupsctl
* /usr/sbin/cupsd
* /usr/sbin/cupsdisable
* /usr/sbin/cupsenable
* /usr/sbin/cupsfilter
* /usr/sbin/cupsreject
* /usr/sbin/lpadmin
* /usr/sbin/lpc
* /usr/sbin/lpinfo
* /usr/sbin/lpmove
* /usr/sbin/reject

There are also intel only binaries for Podcast Producer and Apple’s Xgrid which can be ignored for now and further CUPS binaries that are not ppc compatible contained within other subfolders but try just the above for the moment.
 
Last edited:
Just a quick report - I updated my PowerBook G4 15" to Alpha 5 and internet connected out of the box, so a great big thanks to everyone for such a leap forward :)

As regards power management and temps, I found that the CPU was set to max power and changed it to auto - once I get iStat working I can monitor fans and temp and report back ;)

Cheers :)

Hugh
 
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Hughmac said:
Just a quick report - I updated my PowerBook G4 15" to Alpha 5 and internet connected out of the box, so a great big thanks to everyone for such a leap forward :)

As regards power management and temps, I found that the CPU was set to max power and changed it to auto - once I get iStat working I can monitor fans and temp and report back ;)

Cheers :)

Hugh
Click to expand...

Fantastic! Thanks @Hughmac
 
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This could be relevant to the broken QuickLook:

quicklook.png
 
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ChrisCharman said:
Yes, it seems that the other binaries i replaced are necessary as well. If you don’t want to download the new image (although i recommend it as it contains other fixes) you will have to manually replace the intel only files, which are mostly related to CUPS.

New image: 10.6.8_PPC_A5

If using an earlier image, the following binaries must be replaced with PowerPC versions either built from source or directly from 10.5.8:


Code: 
* /usr/bin/cancel
* /usr/bin/cups-calibrate
* /usr/bin/cupstestdsc
* /usr/bin/cupstestppd
* /usr/bin/escputil
* /usr/bin/hiutil
* /usr/bin/lp
* /usr/bin/lpoptions
* /usr/bin/lppasswd
* /usr/bin/lpq
* /usr/bin/lpr
* /usr/bin/lprm
* /usr/bin/lpstat
* /usr/bin/tclsh8.4
* /usr/sbin/accept
* /usr/sbin/amt
* /usr/sbin/cups-genppd.5.2
* /usr/sbin/cups-genppdupdate
* /usr/sbin/cupsaccept
* /usr/sbin/cupsaddsmb
* /usr/sbin/cupsctl
* /usr/sbin/cupsd
* /usr/sbin/cupsdisable
* /usr/sbin/cupsenable
* /usr/sbin/cupsfilter
* /usr/sbin/cupsreject
* /usr/sbin/lpadmin
* /usr/sbin/lpc
* /usr/sbin/lpinfo
* /usr/sbin/lpmove
* /usr/sbin/reject

There are also intel only binaries for Podcast Producer and Apple’s Xgrid which can be ignored for now and further CUPS binaries that are not ppc compatible contained within other subfolders but try just the above for the moment.
Click to expand...
I can't use the new image to just install MacOS an not overwrite the existing accounts, etc can I? I'd rather not blow away my existing stuff, account, macports builds, etc.
 
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atester2001 said:
I can't use the new image to just install MacOS an not overwrite the existing accounts, etc can I? I'd rather not blow away my existing stuff, account, macports builds, etc.
Click to expand...
I’ll make a package installer soon. Alternatively you can download the new image and just replace the relevant files provided that you set the permissions correctly.
 
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ChrisCharman said:
Will be due to naming convention differences between 10A190/10.6.8 and 10.5.8 Frameworks. Is this on the mainline image(s) or only the custom reverted 10A190 and 10.6.8 Framework version?
Click to expand...

This is on the image with updated frameworks from 10a190 (“Nvidia” one).
I can try it on the generic one tomorrow.
 
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ChrisCharman said:
I’ll make a package installer soon. Alternatively you can download the new image and just replace the relevant files provided that you set the permissions correctly.
Click to expand...
All of those files were already the same on my disk as on the Alpha5 disk image, all ppc (verified by rsync) except for tclsh8.4 which was linked into a framework that had an intel binary. I updated that one, no change. DNS still doesn't work without utdns and the Network Browser shows nothing.
 
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