10.6 Snow Leopard PowerPC Development

[z970]

Sorbet sucks (no offense whoever developed it!) ... I see no tangible improvement in overall speed of the system compared to 10.5.8 on my G5 Quad. I don't benefit from the WebKit version bump because we use Aquafox anyway as you stated. Certificates are still way too out of date to be useful. The "app store" looks like a bad April Fool's joke. What I do see are lots of applications and games which refuse to launch on Sorbet. It doesn't make any sense to me why they wouldn't just add a helper script making the 10.5.9 version bump optional, because I'm pretty sure that's the only thing breaking compatibility.

None taken. In hindsight, it does have some issues and I think Shuriken was ultimately a better implementation of the modifications by making everything optional and also fully reversible. The most common breakages I've seen over time have been predominantly caused by both the aforementioned version number difference and the newer sqlite dylib file, which the newer WebKit depended on to run.

And the idea with that was that (especially 4-5 years ago) certain websites would only work correctly on WebKit as TenFourFox was based on a ~2 year older codebase, and of course Aquafox didn't yet exist, so people would frequently use both browsers to get the most mileage since between the two WebKit was always the fastest and most compatible (besides its limit for TLS 1.2).

But again, that was over 4 years ago now, so the certificates were less than 3 years old when it was new and I suppose more useful then. Moreover, when the app store was first being designed, I was still learning to code in older HTML / CSS standards and didn't want to use any fancy JavaScript features that would spice up the UX but slow down performance or render incorrectly on the much older version of WebKit that its browser instance was based on, so the store was supposed to just be a fun exercise in the basics inspired by Apple's downloads page in 2008--and for that matter written and offered for free on volunteered time.

Today, I would agree that the whole thing needs an update but at the time all of the hype was just supposed to emulate a special new OS X release for PPC systems, which was also fun for most even if some people didn't like the approach. Yes, it could have implemented many things in a safer fashion, but it was a relatively first-of-its-kind type of project and the primary objective was to just try and build a better Leopard for both fun and love of the PPC platform, like a tribute of sorts.

Lastly, it is possible to change the version number back to 10.5.8 via /System/Library/CoreServices/SystemVersion.plist. Takes 45 seconds.

... Anyway, I digress. This thread is about Snow Leopard on PPC and the developments surrounding that, not Sorbet. I extend great applause to all of the talented wizards here like @educovas and others at long last achieving the holy grail of making actual 10.6.8 on PPC a reality (even if still unfinished) and to @ChrisCharman for starting this newer thread to more effectively organize and curate the development of the project.

Who knows, if I get some extra time in the future, I may just be tempted to contribute...

 

[ChrisCharman]

None taken. In hindsight, it does have some issues and I think Shuriken was ultimately a better implementation of the modifications by making everything optional and also fully reversible. The most common breakages I've seen over time have been predominantly caused by both the aforementioned version number difference and the newer sqlite dylib file, which the newer WebKit depended on to run.

And the idea with that was that (especially 4-5 years ago) certain websites would only work correctly on WebKit as TenFourFox was based on a ~2 year older codebase, and of course Aquafox didn't yet exist, so people would frequently use both browsers to get the most mileage since between the two WebKit was always the fastest and most compatible (besides its limit for TLS 1.2).

But again, that was over 4 years ago now, so the certificates were less than 3 years old when it was new and I suppose more useful then. Moreover, when the app store was first being designed, I was still learning to code in older HTML / CSS standards and didn't want to use any fancy JavaScript features that would spice up the UX but slow down performance or render incorrectly on the much older version of WebKit that its browser instance was based on, so the store was supposed to just be a fun exercise in the basics inspired by Apple's downloads page in 2008--and for that matter written and offered for free on volunteered time.

Today, I would agree that the whole thing needs an update but at the time all of the hype was just supposed to emulate a special new OS X release for PPC systems, which was also fun for most even if some people didn't like the approach. Yes, it could have implemented many things in a safer fashion, but it was a relatively first-of-its-kind type of project and the primary objective was to just try and build a better Leopard for both fun and love of the PPC platform, like a tribute of sorts.

Lastly, it is possible to change the version number back to 10.5.8 via /System/Library/CoreServices/SystemVersion.plist. Takes 45 seconds.

... Anyway, I digress. This thread is about Snow Leopard on PPC and the developments surrounding that, not Sorbet. I extend great applause to all of the talented wizards here at long last achieving the holy grail of making actual 10.6.8 on PPC a reality (even if still unfinished) and to @ChrisCharman for starting this newer thread to more effectively organize and curate the development of the project.

Who knows, if I get some extra time in the future, I may just be tempted to contribute...

All contributions welcomed. This isn’t an Agile project, and there’s still much to do!

 

[mac57mac57]

@z970, I for one love Sorbet and thank you profusely for it. I run it pretty much every day.

I would love to see you apply that "extra time," you mentioned to an even faster, sleeker and better Sorbet vs. contributing to PPC Snow Leopard. That is not because I have anything against SL PPC (I love the idea and keep trying it out from time to time, but it is always too unfinished to be my main environment) but simply because there is a small army of developere here at MacRumors working on it.

There is just ONE Sorbet developer, and that is you! If YOU don't come up with a next version of Sorbet, no one else will, but if YOU don't contribute to SL PPC, that project will continue to chug along.

IF you have the time and the inclination, there is a small army of your Shuriken/Sorbet "customers" here at MacRumors who would REALLY love a "Sorbet 2.0".

 

[barracuda156]

That is not because I have anything against SL PPC (I love the idea and keep trying it out from time to time, but it is always too unfinished to be my main environment) but simply because there is a small army of developere here at MacRumors working on it.

AFAIK, there are 2 (two) people doing some work on the OS in spare time – @educovas and @ChrisCharman – and I did some on getting working Unix tools for Xcode. For the project that Apple failed to complete this isn’t an “army”. It remains unfinished exactly because we lack needed developer hours spent on it – and developers to begin with.

 

[b251]

First of all, thanks to @ChrisCharman for making this possible. I really appreciate that. Hopefully this project gains more contributors so that we hopefully get a usable 10.6.8 for our beloved old machines.

I installed the A5 on my PB G4 Late 2005 and there is a second user account named “PowerPC Developer”. What’s the password for this?

Another issue I have faced is that my PCMCIA USB 2.0 card does not work. However it works flawlessly on 10.5.8.

Also i can’t eject images. I have to restart the machine every time I remove an USB stick if I want to use it again.

DNS is not working too, how can I fix that using the MIT Kerberos Tools? I installed them but DNS still not work.

Also any news on the permissions issue?

 

[ChrisCharman]

First of all, thanks to @ChrisCharman for making this possible. I really appreciate that. Hopefully this project gains more contributors so that we hopefully get a usable 10.6.8 for our beloved old machines.

I installed the A5 on my PB G4 Late 2005 and there is a second user account named “PowerPC Developer”. What’s the password for this?

Another issue I have faced is that my PCMCIA USB 2.0 card does not work. However it works flawlessly on 10.5.8.

Also i can’t eject images. I have to restart the machine every time I remove an USB stick if I want to use it again.

DNS is not working too, how can I fix that using the MIT Kerberos Tools? I installed them but DNS still not work.

Also any news on the permissions issue?

Yes the second user account is mine and most likely the source of some permissions conflicts. The password should be ‘BigCat2022’ or some variation of the year. Will confirm soon. All users of A5 should be aware that the original admin account for A5 is the PowerPC Developer user account.

 

[ChrisCharman]

Another issue I have faced is that my PCMCIA USB 2.0 card does not work. However it works flawlessly on 10.5.8.

Potentially missing PCMCIA drivers as not applicable on original intel Snow Leopard systems - moving the appropriate kext across from Leopard or rebuilding from source may work.

Also i can’t eject images. I have to restart the machine every time I remove an USB stick if I want to use it again.

You just need to kill the Finder, not the whole OS. Images are ejected, but remain visible until Finder has been restarted. This is a known issue with. No current fix.

DNS is not working too, how can I fix that using the MIT Kerberos Tools? I installed them but DNS still not work.

DNS Resolution was discussed earlier in the thread and should be resolved in the A5 image. May be specific to your PowerBook model? Will have to investigate when i have the time.

 

[ChrisCharman]

AFAIK, there are 2 (two) people doing some work on the OS in spare time – @educovas and @ChrisCharman – and I did some on getting working Unix tools for Xcode. For the project that Apple failed to complete this isn’t an “army”. It remains unfinished exactly because we lack needed developer hours spent on it – and developers to begin with.

Precisely. To all tinkering with these builds please be aware that it is a work in progress and there’s no deadline - we’re just doing what we can, when we can.

 

[b251]

Yes the second user account is mine and most likely the source of some permissions conflicts. The password should be ‘BigCat2022’ or some variation of the year. Will confirm soon. All users of A5 should be aware that the original admin account for A5 is the PowerPC Developer user account.

Unfortunately not I also tried BigCat22, BigCat2023, BigCat2024.

Maybe it will solve the permission issues when using this account instead of the one created at the initial setup.

DNS is possible neither on safari nor on InterWebPPC. I could try AquaFox too but I think it would not change anything

 

[b251]

Another issue I have faced:

When changing the language from English to German, I get mixed languages. Some menus are in English, some in German. Also when I open the time settings I cannot close them anymore. And clicking on the “clock” tab does not perform anything.

 

[barracuda156]

Another issue I have faced:

When changing the language from English to German, I get mixed languages. Some menus are in English, some in German. Also when I open the time settings I cannot close them anymore. And clicking on the “clock” tab does not perform anything.

View attachment 2598750

Did you confirm that German locales actually exist in apps in question? At least for 3d-party apps that may not be the case (even within the same app some components may have more languages than others).

 

[barracuda156]

Unfortunately not I also tried BigCat22, BigCat2023, BigCat2024.

Maybe it will solve the permission issues when using this account instead of the one created at the initial setup.

DNS is possible neither on safari nor on InterWebPPC. I could try AquaFox too but I think it would not change anything

View attachment 2598748

Is this behind a firewall? For me DNS is working on A5, but DHCP may not be, at least from behind a firewall it does not.
In images where DNS was broken, utdns fixed that.

 

[b251]

Did you confirm that German locales actually exist in apps in question? At least for 3d-party apps that may not be the case (even within the same app some components may have more languages than others).

The mixed languages are on the OS itself, not on 3rd party apps. For example the opened time menu in the picture above is in English although the system was set to German before and perform a restart after that. But the Finder is in German now.

Is this behind a firewall? For me DNS is working on A5, but DHCP may not be, at least from behind a firewall it does not.
In images where DNS was broken, utdns fixed that.

It's just with the router from my ISP, no additional firewall. Never had issues with 10.5.8 or other end devices. I am getting an IP from DHCP and also the DNS entries are set, but no internet access.

 

[mac57mac57]

AFAIK, there are 2 (two) people doing some work on the OS in spare time – @educovas and @ChrisCharman – and I did some on getting working Unix tools for Xcode. For the project that Apple failed to complete this isn’t an “army”. It remains unfinished exactly because we lack needed developer hours spent on it – and developers to begin with.

Thanks @barracuda156, I stand corrected! Just reading the posts, it appears that many people are involved, but I guess the that the truth is that only a small number are actually contributing.

PLEASE keep up the good work... SL PPC is a noble cause, and I sincerely hope that the successes keep piling up. I would LOVE to run Snow Leopard on my G5... I would LOVE to ...

Lest the thought occur to anyone, I can't pitch in myself, other than as a tester. I lack both the skillset and the time to engage in this type of work... and the free time I do have these days are spent on porting my VE text editor to macOS (more on this later, when I get past the alpha stage...VE itself is quite mature, but VE on macOS is definitely not!!).

 

[ChrisCharman]

Unfortunately not I also tried BigCat22, BigCat2023, BigCat2024.

Maybe it will solve the permission issues when using this account instead of the one created at the initial setup.

DNS is possible neither on safari nor on InterWebPPC. I could try AquaFox too but I think it would not change anything

View attachment 2598748

BigCat2021

 

[jktwice]

BigCat2021

This works.

 

[Smithwick’s]

BigCat2021

I suppose it's worth asking this: I've always just deleted that account after getting the OS properly situated and set-up. Haven't ever logged into it. Is there anything about it that would be useful or helpful or is it really just a leftover account from the imaging process?

 

[ChrisCharman]

I suppose it's worth asking this: I've always just deleted that account after getting the OS properly situated and set-up. Haven't ever logged into it. Is there anything about it that would be useful or helpful or is it really just a leftover account from the imaging process?

It’s the account used to create the image, and also some of the binaries. As some people are experiencing permissions issues, it’s possible that some of the system components may have inadvertently not be set to root, group or wheel and instead to that account user specifically. Knowing the credentials allows users of A5 to alter permissions on any such files if required.

 

[ChrisCharman]

Another issue I have faced:

When changing the language from English to German, I get mixed languages. Some menus are in English, some in German. Also when I open the time settings I cannot close them anymore. And clicking on the “clock” tab does not perform anything.

View attachment 2598750

The clock system pref panel is a known bug. Time settings can be adjusted via command line until a fix is available.

Regarding language support, I can’t remember as it’s been a while since i created the image, but i may have use monolingual to strip languages other than english to reduce file size (A5 is a test build not a release). Reinstalling the appropriate languages from an official install image should resolve language issues in theory.

 

[Melchieor]

I installed A5 today and also spoke with @pipetogrep as well to see if it’s viable to port over the tenfourfox development kit over to snow leopard ppc.

 

[barracuda156]

I installed A5 today and also spoke with @pipetogrep as well to see if it’s viable to port over the tenfourfox development kit over to snow leopard ppc.

You could just improve the existing port. 10.6 already has the toolchain and everything needed for the purpose.