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14 Days to Return: Will I or Won't I?

robgreene

robgreene

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jan 12, 2008
249
724
I'm a first time headset user. After reading through some rather bipolar user reviews from real-world users after initial experience with their Apple Vision Pro, I thought I'd track my impressions over the 14-day return period, and try to offer a more complete assessment of what I like and don't like, as well as my leaning toward keeping/returning the device:

DAY 1​


PROs:
• The AVP is noticeably lighter than I expected. What it DOES require is a level of tightness with the strap to be held in place that puts a bit of pressure on your forehead and cheekbones, but I used the device for nearly 2 hours last night with the solo band and felt no urgency to take the thing off.
• The medium solo band fit me great, despite my large (7 3/4) head. It's worth point out though that I shave my head, and could totally see how hair (especially long hair) could cause the solo band to shift, rendering it unusable).
• The scuba effect and color banding (which I would liken to a 3D or hologram effect) is quickly forgotten by the brain with use.
• The realism of the AR blew my mind. It was hard for me to grasp that my friend was not seeing what I was seeing during setup. We quickly addressed this by turning on View Mirroring after setup, so he could see what I was seeing.
• The immersion... oh my word the immersion. From Apple's built-in environments to the Disney creations, it would be hard to overstate how remarkably real these felt. Looking over and seeing Nick Fury on speed dial on top of the Avengers Tower was just one of a million little touches. And then when you realize you're not even in full immersion yet, and turn the crown to reveal a 360º continuation of the environment.... just wow. I was not expecting to like it, but I loved it.
• Loved the available selection of 3D movies on Day 1. Started watching Avengers: Infinity War and it felt like I was seeing it for the first time.
• The "Encounter Dinosaurs" app is clearly a proof of concept more than anything... and it's an impressive showing of what could be. I'd love to see 3D movies get to a place where the scenes come "out of frame" the way the dinosaur does. I found myself ducking, then laughing at myself.
• I was amazed at how "at home" I felt with the interface right out of the gate. Sending messages and even photo messages was remarkably easy. I never once felt the need to switch to my phone to respond to a message while using another app.
• If you're a public speaker (I do on occasion), the Keynote immersion in the Steve Jobs theater will be a FANTASTIC rehearsal tool.
• The more you use Siri for commands and typing, the more you will enjoy the AVP interface. Typing with Siri is delightfully natural, and in yesterday's experience, far more accurate than any other Apple device I've used it on so far. If it DOES get something wrong, the ease of select/copy/paste tools in VisionOS will feel extremely intuitive.
• The best part of personas (more to come below under CONs) was how well it seemed to capture my expressions.
• I wondered what would happen to my apps if I left the room, and I'm pleased to share that resetting/re-centering your apps in view if you change angles or rooms is easily accomplished with a push of the crown.


CONs:
• While lighter than expected, the device was also bigger than expected. I have a huge head, and this thing somehow makes it look even bigger.
• I've seen a lot of light seal / glare complaints. In my experience so far most of that has to do with how the device is put on to begin with... and it seems that putting on the same way consistently does not just happen. If possible, it will take some work. There were times where I had zero light leak and negligible glare. Other times I had notable light leak around my nose and significant glare.
• Complicating matters further, the positioning of the AVP on my head seemed to impact the eye and hand tracking. When I first set it up, everything was nearly 100% spot on for both eyes and hands. When I took it off and put it back on, I started noticing response issues.
• Several apps, including some Apple originals and the Disney app, froze up. Finding a "force quit" option has eluded me so far.
• Zeiss inserts made the Vision Pro view worse (and yes, I paired and followed the setup process), though I admittedly have a very light prescription. Curious to see what the Return Policy is on those.
• Personas are DEFINITELY beta. MY first attempt added 30 pounds. My second gave me blue eyes. Prepare to do several scans to get "you" the way you want. There's an art to it.
• When View Mirroring, if I attempted to watch a movie, the movie did not show up on the TV - fair enough, I get how DRM works. What I was not expecting is that the movie ALSO did not show up on the AVP. You simply can't watch a movie when in mirror mode.
• I almost accidentally Facetimed someone because of a last second focus shift. Be careful.
• Don't even bother walking around with this thing on. Every step shakes the screen. You feel like you're walking through an earthquake, visually.
• The screen's portrayal of "the real word", as many others have reported, is darker and fuzzier than expected. It almost appears to be an intentional degradation on Apple's part, to make the windows "pop" more.
• Speaking of windows, and I had a sneaky suspicion this woudl be the case... Having more than 1 or 2 open is just a hot mess. It's bad enough having 50 windows open on my 2 Apple Displays... now to have them floating around in varying degrees of transparency in 3D space? This is NOT a productivity booster.
• I experienced some additional vision blur in my left eye after using the device. It was back to normal this morning, but that's concerning.


OVERALL AND WHAT'S NEXT:
Overall, I'm extremely impressed with the Apple Vision Pro. As a Day 1 Gen 1 Device, it feels far more capable than the Day 1 Gen 1 iPhone, largely because it builds off the years of iOS development that have followed. It's definitely got it's flaws, but it also feels like "the future, today" just as Apple has told us it would be. Today I plan to take it to Starbucks after a photo shoot, and test the virtual display feature to edit the session. For my purposes, this is one of the key features I need the device to be GREAT at in order to keep it.


WILL I OR WON'T I RETURN IT?
1 day in to this 14 day experiment, I'm leaning towards returning it. But WOW am I impressed.
 
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robgreene said:
I'm leaning towards returning it. But WOW am I impressed.
Click to expand...

Is the product really that impressive if, on day one/two, we have huge swaths of the forum basically saying:

"cool, neat, interesting ideas and direction ....but nah, I'll take my $4k back please"

Day one/two is when HMD's are at their peak -- the novelty factor and "wow" is high..
It's all downhill from this point, and yet already people are ready to ship it back.
 
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I believe right now it's a niche product. Which is totally fine. And I think it's great people that were willing to take the chance to test it out. Unfortunately, I don't have the time or money to take the opportunity. Possibly over time the product will improve and expand to other audiences. It was like when the iPad was first announced. I was even guilty to cross my arms and laugh at the idea of a giant iPhone. But the product evolved and now the iPad is commonly found in my household as well as others, and even in businesses.

As for you analogy of "AVP is a bun that should have remained in the oven." I love it! But I think the bun had to come out for a temperature test and now the feedback, whether good or bad, will help shape the evolvement of the product.
 
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turbineseaplane said:
Day one/two is when HMD's are at their peak -- the novelty factor and "wow" is high..
It's all downhill from this point, and yet already people are ready to ship it back.
Click to expand...
This isn't about novelty or initial WOW factor for me. This is about settling in to a device over an extended period to see how it fits in to my workflow. So much still to test, not the least of which is the Virtual Display and value while traveling.

I don't need a product to "WOW" me every time I use it. I need it to add to quality of life or work in some meaningful way. I'll be back tomorrow with another update.
 
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djinn said:
As for you analogy of "AVP is a bun that should have remained in the oven." I love it! But I think the bun had to come out for a temperature test and now the feedback, whether good or bad, will help shape the evolvement of the product.
Click to expand...

...and I also think the middling Mac and iPad sales have ramped up pressure on Apple to "deliver" (something .. anything)

..which made Chef Tim say..."I don't care if the bread is ready, pull it out of the oven and put it up for sale!"
 
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DAY 2​

Spent the afternoon at Starbucks editing photos, as planned. Also had a buddy come by and try it out for the first time. Here's the latest round of PROs and CONs I experienced.

PROs:
• The battery life on this thing is better than expected. I had it in use for 2.5 hours before the 20% battery warning came up. That was with all sorts of video, facetime calls, immersion, my friend testing things out, and screen mirroring to and from my laptop.
• The mirroring efforts to and from Vision Pro might be simpler than any other Apple device. I loved how easily I could connect to my laptop to edit photos, and found the visibility and color accuracy outdoors in full sun to be FAR better than fighting the glare of my laptop screen. And when you invite a guest to use the device, you can instantly turn on mirroring to ANY of your other up-to-date Apple devices. This is HUGE for helping a first-time user navigate their way around the interface, and share in the experience with them.
• Not that my friend needed help, because like me he found the interface natural and intuitive, even without all the months of pouring through Macrumors articles that I had done. But sharing in the experience with them by seeing what they were seeing on my laptop made the whole process so much more enjoyable!

• Still not experiencing any issues with headaches 2 days in... though I did feel the tiniest bit of neck strain towards the end today (but this was after almost 2 hours of use).
• I continue to be amazed by how much more powerful this device is than an iPhone or iPad. Functionally it punches in much more like a laptop in terms of what you can do on it, especially with an ACTUAL laptop connected... the Laptop + Vision Pro combo is almost like a Laptop Superhero.
• Can’t underscore enough how great this was as a work solution combined with my laptop. If that was ALL Vision Pro did, it would be a pretty remarkable device... the fact that it does all the other things it does, and does them so easily, is just 🤌. I preferred the window closer in than further out, as it seemed to get a litttttle bit fuzzier when pushed out and made bigger.
• There’s no denying it: this thing is FUN to use. I don’t remember the last time I had FUN using a computer.
• At the recommendation of an Apple employee, I finally found a way to hold this thing that works consistently: thumb in the nose bridge, 4 fingers on top. More on that in the CONs below.
• 2 Days in, and still no dual band for me. That is one of the most surprising details yet.
• Saw people of ALL AGES in the Apple Store trying out Vision Pro today. Oldest had to have been in his 70’s. I asked him what he thought. His response? “I loved it… just trying to figure out if I’ll need my own wifi to Support it, because the internet is not very good in our assisted living home.” WHAT A BOSS. 👑

CONs:
• Tried several Facetime calls. The consensus was that my 3rd attempt to capture my persona looks MUCH more like me (in my buddy's words: "yooo... they did you DIRTY with that first one!" haha), but friends and family still felt like they were talking to some sort of AI version of me. Also couldn't find a way to return to (or even LOCATE) the Facetime window after jumping back to Messages to send the friend I was facetiming with a screenshot from our call.
• Speaking of Facetime... there's no Facetime app? So far I've only been able to trigger it from Messages.
• While we're picking on Facetime... there's an option to "Share My Window" from Facetime... but it only seems to share the Messages app. I'd love to be able to share my VIEW over Facetime, so that the other caller could see what I'm seeing. A surprising omission given how much emphasis they've placed on View Mirroring.
• Disney app continues to be one of the buggiest apps out there. Crazy cool... when it works.
• I find myself wanting a "home" gesture SO BADLY. As natural as the "pinch to select" gesture works with eye tracking, I find it equally UNnatural to have to reach up and push the crown to bring up home… especially when you bring up home a LOT on this thing.
• Continuing to experience that any more than 2 windows open at once is just chaos visually.
• Speaking of visuals, I’m noticing that I see the inside curve of each lens at about 30% opacity in my view… kinda has a “parenthesis effect” - ( ) - faintly overlaying the screen. I stopped by the Apple Store next door to the Starbucks where I was at, and they suggested trying the thicker padding to see if that corrects the issue.
• When my buddy returned the device to me and I put it back on, I was asked to set up my eyes and hands again, even though it should have recognized it was me and skipped all that. Then, when I adjusted the headset for a better fit, it seemed to mess up the alignment of the eye/hand test it and just run, because I suddenly could not look low enough to reach the bottom row of the keypad when typing in my password. Wound up having to do a hard reset of the device to get things working again.
• In my opinion, the BIGGEST design flaw so far is how easily the magnetic light seal pops out. Everything in me WANTS to pick the Vision Pro up by the light seal. RESIST THE URGE. Doing so will cause the Vision Pro to detach as you pick it up, and come crashing down to whatever surface is below. I'm sure the easy swappability was GREAT during testing and demos, so that everyone could easily have a turn with the right size for them... but I don't think I'll ever own more than this one Light Seal, so why can't it stay more permanently attached? I’d bet Apple will see quite a few unhappy users coming in with broken screens from light seal pickups.

OVERALL AND WHAT’S NEXT:
This thing works GREAT as a work device, particularly with a laptop connected. I was VERY impressed. At the same time, today the pricing reality weighed heavily on me. If you've not priced one of these out yet in checkout for yourself, it's worth pointing out: all the $3499 talk is a bit misleading. By the time you upgrade the hard drive ($200), add a case ($200), tack on Apple Care ($499) and calculate tax ($400-ish), you're talking about a $5000 device. Tomorrow, I’m planning to try out a couple games on the device, with and without a remote, to see how much I like gaming on the platform. Will also try the thicker padding to see if it corrects the parenthesis effect from the lenses.

WILL I OR WON'T I RETURN IT?
After Day 1, I was about 75/25 in favor of returning it. After Day 2, I’d say I’m more like 60/40 in favor of returning it. I got REALLY excited about being able to travel and work from the Vision Pro. For people who routinelywork in less-than-ideal conditions, I’d go so far as to say it has the potential to be a game-changer. For people like me who already have great workstations at home but travel occasionally, it may prove to be a really fun luxury that isn’t necessary.
 
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djinn said:
It was like when the iPad was first announced. I was even guilty to cross my arms and laugh at the idea of a giant iPhone. But the product evolved and now the iPad is commonly found in my household
Click to expand...
One of the few moderate takes in these forums. Much appreciated. Shout out to you for being willing to adjust your perspective over time.
 
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robgreene said:
• In my opinion, the BIGGEST design flaw so far is how easily the magnetic light seal pops out. Everything in me WANTS to pick the Vision Pro up by the light seal. RESIST THE URGE. Doing so will cause the Vision Pro to detach as you pick it up, and come crashing down to whatever surface is below. I'm sure the easy swappability was GREAT during testing and demos, so that everyone could easily have a turn with the right size for them... but I don't think I'll ever own more than this one Light Seal, so why can't it stay more permanently attached? I’d bet Apple will see quite a few unhappy users coming in with broken screens from light seal pickups.
Click to expand...
100%. I did the demo in the apple store before my pickup, and the woman was insistent on picking it up between the nose bridge & top of the device. When I got home and went to scan my persona and nearly dropped the thing because of the weak magnetic seal I found out why...

That is the most surprising thing hardware wise, Apple has some of the strongest magnetic connections in the iPad, I don't see why they went with this on AVP - the light seal sometimes comes loose when just adjusting the device on my face. It's going to be the most annoying part in demoing it to friends and family, coaching them not to hold it by the most obvious part to hold.
 
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robgreene said:
I'm a first time headset user. After reading through some rather bipolar user reviews from real-world users after initial experience with their Apple Vision Pro, I thought I'd track my impressions over the 14-day return period, and try to offer a more complete assessment of what I like and don't like, as well as my leaning toward keeping/returning the device:
Click to expand...
👍
Thank you for doing this.

As sceptical as I may be about the AVP v.1, (for several reasons) I am interested in how capable this technology is right now and, more importantly for me, how it is going to develop… so you taking the time to post this is very useful and appreciated.
 
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Thanks for your interesting review. It seems that most of the CONs are easily solved software flaws and especially the high price.
 
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robgreene said:
Speaking of visuals, I’m noticing that I see the inside curve of each lens at about 30% opacity in my view… kinda has a “parenthesis effect” - ( ) - faintly overlaying the screen. I stopped by the Apple Store next door to the Starbucks where I was at, and they suggested trying the thicker padding to see if that corrects the issue.
Click to expand...

I’m noticing this as well on both of my 2 cushions. I haven’t yet gone to the Apple Store to try out other light seals, but I’ll probably do that towards the end of the return window for the heck of it.
 
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robgreene said:
This isn't about novelty or initial WOW factor for me. This is about settling in to a device over an extended period to see how it fits in to my workflow. So much still to test, not the least of which is the Virtual Display and value while traveling.

I don't need a product to "WOW" me every time I use it. I need it to add to quality of life or work in some meaningful way. I'll be back tomorrow with another update.
Click to expand...
👆👆👆
Exactly this.

As a visual artist I rely on my Macs to help me create and fine tune my artwork.

Right now a combo of Macs, High quality displays and a pen tablet / Pen Display is just perfect and has served me well the past 30+ years.
I have so much finger muscle memory (is that a thing? 🙂) for shortcuts and customisation developed in different software apps that I rarely need to look at menus or the keyboard.

This is why the AVP or similar technology both interests me and makes me sceptical.

I do not need to be wowed by 3D movies or facetime novelties.

For me, this technology has to be a work tool — pay my rent/feed the cat. Recreational side benefits will be welcome, but are just that… side benefits.

Where I am right now with the AVP is no one — least of all Apple — has shown it to be a useable tool that will make things better for my own workflow.
 
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robgreene said:
DAY 2:
Spent the afternoon at Starbucks editing photos, as planned. Also had a buddy come by and try it out for the first time. Here's the latest round of PROs and CONs I experienced.

PROs:
• The battery life on this thing is better than expected. I had it in use for 2.5 hours before the 20% battery warning came up. That was with all sorts of video, facetime calls, immersion, my friend testing things out, and screen mirroring to and from my laptop.
• The mirroring efforts to and from Vision Pro might be simpler than any other Apple device. I loved how easily I could connect to my laptop to edit photos, and found the visibility and color accuracy outdoors in full sun to be FAR better than fighting the glare of my laptop screen. And when you invite a guest to use the device, you can instantly turn on mirroring to ANY of your other up-to-date Apple devices. This is HUGE for helping a first-time user navigate their way around the interface, and share in the experience with them.
• Not that my friend needed help, because like me he found the interface natural and intuitive, even without all the months of pouring through Macrumors articles that I had done. But sharing in the experience with them by seeing what they were seeing on my laptop made the whole process so much more enjoyable!

• Still not experiencing any issues with headaches 2 days in... though I did feel the tiniest bit of neck strain towards the end today (but this was after almost 2 hours of use).
• I continue to be amazed by how much more powerful this device is than an iPhone or iPad. Functionally it punches in much more like a laptop in terms of what you can do on it, especially with an ACTUAL laptop connected... the Laptop + Vision Pro combo is almost like a Laptop Superhero.
• Can’t underscore enough how great this was as a work solution combined with my laptop. If that was ALL Vision Pro did, it would be a pretty remarkable device... the fact that it does all the other things it does, and does them so easily, is just 🤌. I preferred the window closer in than further out, as it seemed to get a litttttle bit fuzzier when pushed out and made bigger.
• There’s no denying it: this thing is FUN to use. I don’t remember the last time I had FUN using a computer.
• At the recommendation of an Apple employee, I finally found a way to hold this thing that works consistently: thumb in the nose bridge, 4 fingers on top. More on that in the CONs below.
• 2 Days in, and still no dual band for me. That is one of the most surprising details yet.
• Saw people of ALL AGES in the Apple Store trying out Vision Pro today. Oldest had to have been in his 70’s. I asked him what he thought. His response? “I loved it… just trying to figure out if I’ll need my own wifi to Support it, because the internet is not very good in our assisted living home.” WHAT A BOSS. 👑

CONs:
• Tried several Facetime calls. The consensus was that my 3rd attempt to capture my persona looks MUCH more like me (in my buddy's words: "yooo... they did you DIRTY with that first one!" haha), but friends and family still felt like they were talking to some sort of AI version of me. Also couldn't find a way to return to (or even LOCATE) the Facetime window after jumping back to Messages to send the friend I was facetiming with a screenshot from our call.
• Speaking of Facetime... there's no Facetime app? So far I've only been able to trigger it from Messages.
• While we're picking on Facetime... there's an option to "Share My Window" from Facetime... but it only seems to share the Messages app. I'd love to be able to share my VIEW over Facetime, so that the other caller could see what I'm seeing. A surprising omission given how much emphasis they've placed on View Mirroring.
• Disney app continues to be one of the buggiest apps out there. Crazy cool... when it works.
• I find myself wanting a "home" gesture SO BADLY. As natural as the "pinch to select" gesture works with eye tracking, I find it equally UNnatural to have to reach up and push the crown to bring up home… especially when you bring up home a LOT on this thing.
• Continuing to experience that any more than 2 windows open at once is just chaos visually.
• Speaking of visuals, I’m noticing that I see the inside curve of each lens at about 30% opacity in my view… kinda has a “parenthesis effect” - ( ) - faintly overlaying the screen. I stopped by the Apple Store next door to the Starbucks where I was at, and they suggested trying the thicker padding to see if that corrects the issue.
• When my buddy returned the device to me and I put it back on, I was asked to set up my eyes and hands again, even though it should have recognized it was me and skipped all that. Then, when I adjusted the headset for a better fit, it seemed to mess up the alignment of the eye/hand test it and just run, because I suddenly could not look low enough to reach the bottom row of the keypad when typing in my password. Wound up having to do a hard reset of the device to get things working again.
• In my opinion, the BIGGEST design flaw so far is how easily the magnetic light seal pops out. Everything in me WANTS to pick the Vision Pro up by the light seal. RESIST THE URGE. Doing so will cause the Vision Pro to detach as you pick it up, and come crashing down to whatever surface is below. I'm sure the easy swappability was GREAT during testing and demos, so that everyone could easily have a turn with the right size for them... but I don't think I'll ever own more than this one Light Seal, so why can't it stay more permanently attached? I’d bet Apple will see quite a few unhappy users coming in with broken screens from light seal pickups.

OVERALL AND WHAT’S NEXT:
This thing works GREAT as a work device, particularly with a laptop connected. I was VERY impressed. At the same time, today the pricing reality weighed heavily on me. If you've not priced one of these out yet in checkout for yourself, it's worth pointing out: all the $3499 talk is a bit misleading. By the time you upgrade the hard drive ($200), add a case ($200), tack on Apple Care ($499) and calculate tax ($400-ish), you're talking about a $5000 device. Tomorrow, I’m planning to try out a couple games on the device, with and without a remote, to see how much I like gaming on the platform. Will also try the thicker padding to see if it corrects the parenthesis effect from the lenses.

WILL I OR WON'T I RETURN IT?
After Day 1, I was about 75/25 in favor of returning it. After Day 2, I’d say I’m more like 60/40 in favor of returning it. I got REALLY excited about being able to travel and work from the Vision Pro. For people who routinelywork in less-than-ideal conditions, I’d go so far as to say it has the potential to be a game-changer. For people like me who already have great workstations at home but travel occasionally, it may prove to be a really fun luxury that isn’t necessary.
Click to expand...
I've picked up the AVP on Friday as well. I have to say your day by day review by far is the most nutritious of all AVP posts here. Most of the pros and cons I agree with you totally.
 
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As I have mentioned in several other posts, I am not the least excited for this product, mostly because of what AR/VR means for our society as a whole. However, I generally do not wish failure on anyone.

I expected Apple would’ve done a great job with this unit and the screams of joy after the introduction echoed that. Yet, from both the influencer and forum reviews, it definitely seems that the VP falls short. If the unit was priced in the sub $2,000 range, it might be more forgivable for a generation-one device. At the nearly $4k price tag (tax), it seems that many are genuinely dissatisfied.

I am not happy this is happening but I am not surprised.

Apple has made a very obvious push from “insanely great products” to “insanely high profits” in the time since Steve and Johnny left. While I’m sure Tim put a lot in the VP, history may well judge this product as a beta that was released years before it was finished.

These comments are, however, obviously, made on day two. I may be proven wrong and only time will tell.
 
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I believe that AVP is simply the first in a long series with (as has always happened) a number of flaws. In retrospect we could say the same thing for the first Apple computers, or iPhone or Watch etc. As for its high price I think it is a deliberate choice by Apple not to make profit from it (given the expected low sales numbers) but because this first generation is deliberately dedicated to the few interested/enthusiasts willing to spend so much to have a still perfectible idea of what the future will look like.
 
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arkitect said:
Have you only read the headline or the whole of the OP's actual 1st post?

It's a very considered piece far more informative than you seem to give it credit for.

There is life below the headline… or even the fold.
Click to expand...
Yeah. He's leaning towards returning it. What's the point of gushing on about it or discussing how great it is if ultimately it's being returned?

If it's being returned none of that matters.
 
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DMG35 said:
What's the point of gushing on about it or discussing how great it is if ultimately it's being returned?
Click to expand...
Great question @DMG35! 2 answers come to mind:

(1) The point is that I don't know if it's being returned, so I'm inviting people in to see the thoughtful process going in to the decision.
(2) The point to provide a non-polarizing analysis from a real-world user.

This is a brand new device with a TON of possibilities to explore and evaluation points to consider. If you don't care for thoughtful and thorough analysis, it will not hurt my feelings in the least if you choose not to read.
 
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