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3rdof33

macrumors newbie
Feb 13, 2024
9
5
I hope to buy a lightly used one

I am sorry if I somehow hurt your sensitivity but the "angry" smiley face was the only option to express my disagreement (the one with the thumb was missing) and honestly I had also forgotten it.

On the other hand, as for our interesting exchange of views, it is clear that we think differently and I don't believe the topic deserves any more precious time (we are also OT).

And, well, I admit that I am in a bit of a hurry: I have a driverless cab waiting for me because, before my wife gets back, I am going to sell her several luxury bags so (I hope) I can buy a second AVP. ;)
What happened to the driver? Is he okay?
 
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ovrlrd

macrumors 65816
Aug 29, 2009
1,384
146
One note: don't let the blurry edges of this screenshot fool you: that's not how it feels inside the AVP, but it IS how all screenshots seem to display for some reason. Hoping they iron that out in a future OS update.

This is due to Apple’s use of foveated rendering to prioritize higher resolution on where your eye is looking. This happens so fast that when wearing it you don’t even notice that the stuff outside your eye’s fovea is lower resolution, all the while boosting performance/battery.

The only way to take screenshots without this effect is to connect it to USB using the expensive developer strap and use the developer tools on a Mac. I would love it if Apple can figure out how to allow this (albeit at the cost of performance/battery) when taking screenshots.
 

Night Spring

macrumors G5
Jul 17, 2008
14,886
8,056
Also, @Night Spring you can see on the left side of this image what I mean about window sizes. That's the Messages app clocking as large as my MacBook Pro virtual display. At it's smallest, the Messages window is about 2/3 of the size of the virtual display window as pictured here.
So you're saying that is the smallest the Message window can get? I suspect that, for me, that's about as big as I'd want it to be in order to be legible and display enough of the conversation to keep me present in the flow of the chat. But I can understand how you'd want an option to make it smaller.
 

robgreene

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jan 12, 2008
247
682
So you're saying that is the smallest the Message window can get? I suspect that, for me, that's about as big as I'd want it to be in order to be legible and display enough of the conversation to keep me present in the flow of the chat. But I can understand how you'd want an option to make it smaller.
That's about 85% of the main window. It can go down to about 66%. Still too large for a crazy arrangement of dozens of windows in view.

I think the more intriguing "multiwindow" use case is the one shown by Cory or Casey somebody, who had windows set up all around the house for different purposes. I can envision a future where Apple lets you save window locations "permanently," and they sync via iCloud so they're always visible from every device. Not wearing your Vision Pro, but wanna see that grocery list you put by your fridge? Pull out your iPhone camera and AR will do the rest.
 
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Night Spring

macrumors G5
Jul 17, 2008
14,886
8,056
That's about 85% of the main window. It can go down to about 66%. Still too large for a crazy arrangement of dozens of windows in view.
Do you really want dozens of windows in view? I was thinking 3-4 windows in my line of sight, with maybe a few more windows stacked out of the way for easy access.

I think the more intriguing "multiwindow" use case is the one shown by Cory or Casey somebody, who had windows set up all around the house for different purposes. I can envision a future where Apple lets you save window locations "permanently," and they sync via iCloud so they're always visible from every device. Not wearing your Vision Pro, but wanna see that grocery list you put by your fridge? Pull out your iPhone camera and AR will do the rest.
Yes! That would be extremely cool and useful!
 

robgreene

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jan 12, 2008
247
682
Do you really want dozens of windows in view? I was thinking 3-4 windows in my line of sight, with maybe a few more windows stacked out of the way for easy access.


Yes! That would be extremely cool and useful!
Well, your author use case you sent over had about a dozen apps, so I was using that as a frame of reference. In my experience, 3 apps is kinda the max that I would ever use at once in this version of the OS.
 

Night Spring

macrumors G5
Jul 17, 2008
14,886
8,056
Well, your author use case you sent over had about a dozen apps, so I was using that as a frame of reference. In my experience, 3 apps is kinda the max that I would ever use at once in this version of the OS.
I think he listed about a dozen apps he uses regularly, but it wasn't my impression that he uses them all at the same time. The video he posted of his app layout showed 3 windows he was actively using, and others in the background that I think are for reference or mood setting. At least that's the impression I got.
 

ovrlrd

macrumors 65816
Aug 29, 2009
1,384
146
Well, your author use case you sent over had about a dozen apps, so I was using that as a frame of reference. In my experience, 3 apps is kinda the max that I would ever use at once in this version of the OS.

Have you set the window size to the smallest under Settings > Display?

I find this helps quite a bit, but I do wish it would go even smaller, since I have no problem reading if I adjust the dynamic text size to the smallest as well.
 
No, no, you are more! ;)

And that’s that! ❤️

1707948994910.png
 
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robgreene

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jan 12, 2008
247
682
For those interested in using the Virtual Desktop for work... this is essentially what your Vision Pro decision boils down to: which experience do you find more beneficial and desirable?
 

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robgreene

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jan 12, 2008
247
682
My vote: top perspective (even factoring my ADHD).
I imagine there will be plenty of others who share that sentiment... or at the very least prefer a portable second/third screen setup like the Monduo. I think the more I use the Vision Pro, the more I prefer the bottom.
 
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I imagine there will be plenty of others who share that sentiment... or at the very least prefer a portable second/third screen setup like the Monduo. I think the more I use the Vision Pro, the more I prefer the bottom.

What comes to mind when viewing the two is it’s not too dissimilar to how field of view varies between using contact lenses versus using glasses. It’s a reminder of how peripheral vision, even within the Vision Pro field of view, takes a back seat to foveal vision.

Separate from that is the notion of deliberately placing oneself within one’s space: one goes to a café for a coffee, ideally, to take in the café setting (which, at least before the McDonaldsization of chain coffee cafés like *$, was more common). Showing up at a café, only to shut out the café with a VP headset, seems like a lot of work over, say, going home (or, if travelling, hotel room) and doing the same “screen” activities there.
 
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robgreene

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jan 12, 2008
247
682
Separate from that is the notion of deliberately placing oneself within one’s space: one goes to a café for a coffee, ideally, to take in the café setting (which, at least before the McDonaldsization of chain coffee cafés like *$, was more common). Showing up at a café, only to shut out the café with a VP headset, seems like a lot of work over, say, going home (or, if travelling, hotel room) and doing the same “screen” activities there.
I'd imagine this comes down to user preference. I have my ideal workstation at home, and would not trade it for the Vision Pro's experience while working from home. I love the Vision Pro on the go though, and sometimes I just want to get out of the house for a bit and grab a beverage while I work. Moreover, I photograph college grads. Sitting in a coffee shop near campus, with a cutting edge piece of technology that my target market has a high degree of interest in, has proven to be a significant conversation starter in my 3 visits over the past 2 weeks.
 
Um, what happened there? Why did she run forward suddenly like that?

It’s a TikTok short, so the context is unknown. My guess is something startled her, or she felt momentary incongruence between her sense of balance/proprioceptive and what her eyes were telling her during that brief moment. Apparently it was her first time using the family’s VP headset.

Were I to hazard a guess more specifically, it was probably related to one of the background outdoor panorama settings, and something about that view startled her.
 
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OriginalAppleGuy

Suspended
Sep 25, 2016
968
1,137
Virginia
That's funny. I don't work in environments. Things just float in the air. And it's really cool when you can pull an app with you and place it somewhere. Or, you can just surround yourself with apps.

For me, I have a LOT of apps up. Teams, Outlook (unless I use Webmail which unfortunately is better than the iOS app), messages, my password manager, Microsoft Edge for company use, Safari for general browsing, the clock/battery app. At times Word, Excel, PowerPoint. It's nicer placing them around me instead of just in front in a half moon - apps can get lost that way.

Will say, with that many apps up, you do have to be careful getting up and walking around them. I feel may way through sometimes, LOL.
 

robgreene

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jan 12, 2008
247
682

FINAL THOUGHTS​

Today marked the end of my first experience with Apple Vision Pro. It is all boxed up for return in the morning. Now that the experiment is complete, I wanted to share a few overarching thoughts on my experience:

• There's something GREAT here. Not for TOMORROW. For TODAY. From movie fanatics in the market for a high-end tv, to Creatives and Business People looking to work publicly while maintaining privacy, there are going to be people who keep the device, and get a ton of joy and benefit from it in the months ahead. I went in with ZERO interest in anything AR/VR. I left completely sold on this being an exciting future for computing, even if it wasn't the right price point for me to jump in just yet.

• Everyone Should be Recording in Spatial with your iPhones. Even Without Vision Pro. I'm not even sure why Apple even gives you the option. Even if you don't own a Vision Pro today, you'll likely own a future iteration, even if it's years from now. And when you do, you'll wish you had been recording every sentimental moment in Spatial Video, not 2D. It's POWERFUL.

• Apple 100% Did the Right Thign Getting Vision Pro to Market. Steve Jobs famously said "Real Artists Ship." Kudos to Tim and the team at Apple for getting this device shipped. The amount of data and feedback they're about to get on this device and how to make it better is going to truly be revolutionary. That word gets thrown around inappropriately a lot these days, but in this case, it's the perfect word. The people who keep their devices will help shape it's future. And the best part is, there are a ton of changes that can and will happen at the OS/app level... changes that could start happening this calendar year. I'm thrilled to follow the development of the OS in the months ahead. This is going to be exciting!

• Window Management is Lacking. What good is "infinite workspace" if there's no way to consistently, conveniently organize it? I would love to see a dock of your open apps that appears when you look down, much in the way control center opens when you look up (and before you go complaining about control center popping up when you don't want it to, make sure you've adjusted it higher in the System Settings... makes a huge difference!) I would also love to see a Mission Control-esque feature controlled by a gesture, and the ability to save presets of windows/workspaces.

• The only thing more curious than the Travel Case Design is the Travel Case Packaging. I'm still a bit baffled by the size and material choices for the Vision Pro Travel Case. But if there's any one indication of how "rushed to market" this launch may have been, it's the travel case packaging. It came in a single piece of folded, unmarked, unbranded piece of white cardboard... like a chinese takeout box but flimsier. It's the single most un-Apple design decision I can recall in 24 years of using Apple products.

• 256 GB is Plenty... for Now. I bought the 512 GB model and regretted it almost instantly. Until better file management and more cloud options (only Files and Box available at launch - no sign of Dropbox), you're just not likely to be storing much more than a few movies and some apps. That said, Apps, OS, and System Files took up nearly 200GB of my AVP storage space. Not sure what that was going to, as I did not install a ton of Apps... surprising.

• The Battery Life is Plenty... for Now. I thought the battery would be a dealbreaker for me. While I wasn't THRILLED about having it hanging off the device all the time, I wasn't BOTHERED by it in practice. The battery life (typically around 3 hours for my use) was longer than I ever wanted to use the Vision Pro in a single setting, making Apple's solution more than adequate.

• Consider the Cost: you're not looking at a $3500 purchase. Most people are looking at somewhere between a $4200 and $5000 dollar investment. At $5000 you're moving in to a higher end MacBook Pro. Could you get more value from a $5000 MacBook Pro than $5000 Vision Pro right now? For many people the answer will be yes (but I can guarantee those people won't have NEARLY as much fun 🤣)

• The Perfect Fit Takes Practice. My level of comfort wearing the Vision Pro on Day 1 compared to my level of comfort on Day 13 were RADICALLY different. There's an art and a science to getting a fit that is comfortable for longer viewing sessions. The more you use it, the more you'll find your sweet spot.

• Immersive Movies > 3D Movies. if Apple can figure out how to take Immersive Movies mainstream, it might be hard to ever go back. Will we get there? Hard to imagine, but time will tell.

• Lack of Phone Integration is a Glaring Hole. When your entire company's past 2 decades are built on a singular device like the iPhone, it seems unfathomable to completely cut out phone call integration in your next gen device. But that's exactly what's happened with Apple Vision Pro.

• The More you use Siri in your Daily Life, the More at Home You'll Feel on Vision Pro. Even simple things like sending text messages are crazy fast on Vision Pro when you use the speech to text feature. The Apple Smart Home crowd is well primed for a seamless transition.

• "Ready Player One" is Closer Than We Think. Watching that movie, I never understood why people would prefer a virtual world. 2 Weeks in to Apple Vision Pro, and people are raving about the movie watching experience, and so many are already saying "I just wish I could see a friend in another state sitting there next to me in the virtual theater while she watches from her Apple Vision Pro." This device is already generating a demand for social connectivity inside immersive environments. What a trippy future we have ahead of us!

• Health Concerns Exist... but so do Health Benefits. No one knows the longterm health impact on our eyes and minds from these devices, something that every prospective Vision Pro owner should certainly consider before making the purchase. But it's at least worth pointing out that from laptops to phones to tables, computing devices have historically worsened our posture. The Vision Pro may be the first computing device that actually strengthens our posture. This is a benefit I think Apple could lean into even more, possibly providing posture check alerts in future OS updates.

• Ethical Concerns Also Exist. When the iPhone came out in 2007, no one anticipated the unintended consequence of families out to dinner with kids glued to screens instead of engaged in conversation with their family. When AirPods came out in 2016, no one could have ever guessed that one of the unintended consequences of their release would be workers in fast food joints, grocery stores, coffee shops, and more all "tuning out" from customers to "tune in" to their music on the job. For some people, this is a non-issue. For others, it's maddening. Likewise, there will be unintended consequences that come from the Vision Pro's establishment in society, some of which raise far more grave ethical questions than listening to music at work. Are we approaching a day where it's commonplace to be sitting next to someone on a plane who is watching pornography? Will some people point to horror stories of sights and sounds of people "reacting" without realizing it, while others argue "what's it matter? you can't see what they're looking at anyway?" This is just one example of the potential unintended ethical consequences. As a less intense example, we're already seeing strong evidence of Gen Z's inability to speak to people by phone, and it's impact in the workplace... could mass adoption of Spatial Computing devices like Vision Pro lead to a future where the next generation struggles to even look people in the eye in real life? I think it's important to remember that, while WE may view these devices through the lens of how they BUILD on to a paradigm and worldview that we've been establishing for ourselves for years, for future generations they ARE the paradigm. They ARE the lens through which they view the world. Nefarious use cases don't mean we should stop innovating and creating, but they SHOULD compel us to consider their implications as we integrate new technologies into our daily lives.

THE VERDICT:
I'm returning my Apple Vision Pro (and I'll be back to share about that experience tomorrow), but it's on my radar to pick up a refurbished model when the price is right. What's here in V1 is GREAT. I look forward to picking it back up in the near future and integrating it in to my daily rhythms and workflow.
 
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