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16" M1 Max or M2 Max MBP?
- Thread starter HawkTheHusky1902
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Not quite Apples to Apples -
I do some photo work as well. I had a Mini M1 16/512. Worked brilliantly IF* only a few apps are open. Ultimately, went to a Studio Max with 64 gigs RAM and 1TB drive. The 64 gigs of RAM was a serious improvement. I can't imagine having less than 32 gigs and happy with 64 gigs. As for the M1 vs M2, the M2 likely would show noticeable improvement in video editing.
I agree with your own sentiment that, if you need the 64 GB RAM, an M1/64 GB is going to outperform an M2/32 GB that needs to swap to the SSD.
But if you really want the M2, and your budget is limited to $3k, another option is to buy used locally (or, failing that, on eBay). If I were spending that kind of money, I'd want the protection of only buying one that came with AppleCare+. Here's a sold listing I found on eBay, which had AC+:
. If so, and your budget were a bit higher, I'd recommed buying a used 64 GB/1 TB 16" M1 for ~$2k (ideally also with AC+), then reselling it and buying the M3 when it comes out.
But if you really want the M2, and your budget is limited to $3k, another option is to buy used locally (or, failing that, on eBay). If I were spending that kind of money, I'd want the protection of only buying one that came with AppleCare+. Here's a sold listing I found on eBay, which had AC+:
But it sounds like you really want the M3
. If so, and your budget were a bit higher, I'd recommed buying a used 64 GB/1 TB 16" M1 for ~$2k (ideally also with AC+), then reselling it and buying the M3 when it comes out.
RAM is still RAM. All Apple Silicon does to change it is how efficiently data goes to and from RAM and the devices looking to read data from RAM. When it comes to how much RAM you'll need, that isn't any different with Apple Silicon from how it is on any other hardware platform. If you buy any M2 Pro Mac, you can still customize it with 32GB. I don't believe that 16GB isn't enough for video editing, but certainly 32GB is almost always going to be better for it.
Again, for the uses you have outlined, I really have no idea where you think you need a Max chip. Incidentally, it's not my wallet, so if you are compelled to go with a Max chip, then so be it.
I also have no idea where you got the notion that the heatsink for the M2 Max 16-inch is worse than that of the M1 Max 16-inch. They're comparable. The M2 Max on the 14-inch got a badly needed update to the cooler compared to what was provided on M1 Max 14-inch models. But a Max chip on a 14-inch is not the most practical pairing to begin with.
It's primarily the 14-inch. The 16-inch is fine. Though, again, I don't know where the perceived need for Max is over Pro. It's extra power you won't make use of that will only serve to diminish your battery life and make the machine run hotter (things you seem pretty adamant about not wanting).
If you were working more heavily with 8K, I'd say sure. For 4K, you're not going to experience any noticeable performance benefit that justifies the added price tag, lower battery life and hotter running temperatures.
Yeah, i know....choices, choices...OP, you're facing a premium dilemma. The world's best notebook versus the world's best notebook from last year. I wish my problems were this good!
I dont want/need an M3, and i dont wanna wait and wait as life passes by...I agree with your own sentiment that, if you need the 64 GB RAM, an M1/64 GB is going to outperform an M2/32 GB that needs to swap to the SSD.
But if you really want the M2, and your budget is limited to $3k, another option is to buy used locally (or, failing that, on eBay). If I were spending that kind of money, I'd want the protection of only buying one that came with AppleCare+. Here's a sold listing I found on eBay, which had AC+:
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But it sounds like you really want the M3
I think that is the best option thiugh and the one that i was thinking about: get a used M1 MBP 16" and if it is not fast enough and i hate it that much, when the M3 comes out i sell it and get the M3
Also, i said in my original post that i am perfectly fine buying used/on ebay, but if i can get away with the same or a little more price new/refurbished with warranty/AC+ like Apple Refurbished then that would be great.
No, of course if i can be fine with a cheaper M1/M2 pro mbp with 32g of Ram, and that might be the sweet spot according to the Verge and others, then that would be great, but i know that a lot of people go with 32g of ram and not 64g because they think they dont need it for their photo editing/hi res panorama stitching but they get the higher ram model instead in the end because 32g is not enough. My most demanding tasks i will be doing is hi res panoram stitching and 1080p/8k/4k video editing from my Canon R5/7D Mark II ( R5 upcoming hopefully!), and according to ArtIsRight's monotonous but good videos having 64g of ram significantly benefits speed of the photo stitching compared to 32g. So you see, i might nit always need 64g if RAM, but when i do it is very nice, and the Max chips are the only ones that allow for more than 32g of ram, aside from the Ultra chips onky availible in the desktops.
Another big reason for getting a Max chip is for the external display support, which is very very important for me since i will be using the new MBP as a desktop replacement for now, and i need good hi res monitors, albeit i only want 2 monitors, but at higher refresh rates if possible.
I do agree with you on the battery life and heat part, that is also very important to me.
All in all, i will think about it more....
I will most of the time, real talk here, be editing 4k video when i do shoot video, but i will be mostly doing photography, contrary to what is said before i know, so i think it might not be that worth it to get the max chip over the pro chip for 4k video as you said, especially considering the added price, massive battery life drop, and extra heat.
Oh, boy, you are so wrong stating that.
I will tell you the basics of CPU architecture because I do know that you won’t find it on Youtube, but it‘s plenty available over the net, which, off course will need an extra effort to get.
CPUs are dumb pieces of hardware that executes simple math problems called instructions. Each instruction has a set of variables that need to be fulfilled before the CPU runs it. At every cycle, the CPU resolves one instruction, and it will face the another one. So, instructions are resolved in sequence, one after the other at every CPU Cycle.
x86 CPUs have a huge amount of possible instructions one for each task, and the results of every instruction is needed to fulfill the next one, so to resolve a future instruction, it will need the result of a running instruction, by the way, x86 software intercalates a series of instructions to provide a result to a future instruction. So the CPU has to deal with that complex set of instructions, one at every cycle before moving to another. So, the results of each instruction is stored in RAM to be recalled in the appropriate time.
ARM CPUs have a reduced number of instructions, that means the CPU will resolve simpler problems, which off course will consume less cycles to be resolved an so, it won’t need to be stored for long time in RAM.
ARM architetucre uses a sets of registers to store information between the instructions that will reduce the amount of stored data in RAM, that can be stored in disk.
To make it visual, x86 CPUs has about a thousand instructions, while ARM ones has 50.
The executable size is also important here. As x86 uses larger executable sizes (120bits) that needs to be stored in RAM whatever the content. ARM executable size is 32bit, so ARM system will use about 25% less ram space to store their results.
So, no. The amount of RAM needed is not the same across different hardware platforms.
all this means is that you can get away with less RAM than you would typically need on traditional systems on Apple Silicon, thus saving money.
then you couldve just quoted his post directly not my post replying to his "statement out of no where" post...
The funny fact in Apple Silicon move, is that it happened at the same time youtubers reviewers were turning famous. and those guys don’t know what they are talking about. The fella that you follow, Vadim from Max Tech, is as dumb as a cash register. What is his formation? What have he done in the computer industry? How has he turned himself on a tech guru knowing nothing about how computers are designed?
He do know how to open and disassemble a Mac and visually compare internals!! And there’s a lot of folks who believe in he. Thousands of computer engineers have to be wrong about their decisions to use new materials, more heat conductive, in the before mentioned heatsink: The guy with a camera and a screwdriver told.
Yeah...The funny fact in Apple Silicon move, is that it happened at the same time youtubers reviewers were turning famous. and those guys don’t know what they are talking about. The fella that you follow, Vadim from Max Tech, is as dumb as a cash register. What is his formation? What have he done in the computer industry? How has he turned himself on a tech guru knowing nothing about how computers are designed?
He do know how to open and disassemble a Mac and visually compare internals!! And there’s a lot of folks who believe in he. Thousands of computer engineers have to be wrong about their decisions to use new materials, more heat conductive, in the before mentioned heatsink: The guy with a camera and a screwdriver told.
First off, I understand how a CPU works. I also understand what instructions are.
Second off, you are speaking PURELY about executable code and NOT AT ALL about DATA. If I load a 32GB file, I need 32GB of RAM. If I don't have 32GB of RAM, the system will default to disk. This is NO DIFFERENT on an Apple Silicon Mac than it is on an Intel Mac. Nor is it any different on Windows running on ARM64 versus x86-64.
Third off, the amount of RAM recommended for any given app or set of apps running on Intel isn't any different from those recommendations from those same developers when it comes to Apple Silicon. You don't have two sets of minimum system requirements for universal apps. The notion that 16GB on Apple Silicon is equivalent to 32GB on Intel is total rubbish. RAM is RAM; the instruction sets are different, but the DATA is the same.
Except that's wrong information.
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Anyhow, i want to get back on track again.
I have thought about it more, and i will be doing more photography and photo editing/stitching than video and video editing, but i will be doing occasional 4k video editing, and MAYBE 8k. But mostly 4k (24-120fps). I realised as uou said that i might not need a Max chip, and i could get enough performance out of a Pro chip, and have significantly better battery life, and heat management, though to a lesser extent. This would save me a lot of money and allow me to get more accessories like an external SSD, usb hubs, etc.... which would help a lot.
I am not sure though about the external display support of the Pro chips, but it should be fine.
I also do not know if i would actually get a difference in speed and snappiness in every day stuff/editing/stitching getting a Max chip instead of a Pro chip. It would, again, save me money, and allow me to get a M2 Pro (cant afford M2 Max, dont want to get anything that expensive on ebay either, even if i get a good price) chip instead of an M1 Max chip, if the Pro chip is enough, and i would get the better HDMI port (and matching color charging cable). The M2 Pro chip from what ive seen also starts to come close to the M1 Max's performance, with better battery life and newer.
Again, help is appreciated...
It supports up to two external displays in addition to the internal. If you need three, then you gotta go with the Max.
It won't. The only differences are graphics (which you probably won't notice that big of a difference in), memory bandwidth (which you probably won't notice unless every second is worth tons of money), and maximum RAM capacities (moot because 32GB will be more than enough for what you're trying to do).
I wouldn't mess with Max. If I had to, I'd probably be more inclined to do so with M2 Max, since Apple seemed to get performance scaling down much better this time. But, either Max chip is overkill for the vast majority of Mac users, let alone the vast majority of MacBook Pro customers.
both the M2 pro and M1 pro support up to two displays, or only one of them? Is a M1/M2 Pro MBP going to be slowed down by having its maximum amount of external displays (2) connected? The M1/M2 Max will not have its external display support maxed out when connected to 2 external displays, if you know what i mean. I think having 32gb or more of ram will definitely be good when having multiple displays connected and while multitasking/processing photos. I will generally not have more than 2 external displays connected at a time, so it should be ok.
Will i really see no noticeanle difference when multitasking, like editing/stitching 45MP RAW photos in Lightroom while browsing in Firefox with 20-30 tabs open while also having LibreOffice open? In that situation i think having more than 32GB MIGHT show a noticeable improvement, but surely the jump from 16 to 32gb will be the biggest difference in that situation.
I think a 16" M1/M2 Pro MBP with 32GB could me the sweet spot for me, and leave some money for accessories and be in my budget (3K) but mainly have much much better battery life than a Max chip, which is important to me.
While there certainly may be users who have 20-30 tabs open in a browser while they edit the high res images of their last shooting, I dare to ask... how realistic is such a scenario in the real world? The countless open browser tabs as an indicator for multitasking capabilities of a computer is also a very popular topic in all these YouTube reviews, but do they really reflect reality? At least I have my doubts...!
Question: What apps do you use for your photo editing? You already mentioned Lightroom, do you refer in here to LrC or Lr? Do you also use additional apps, for example for sharpening or noise reduction? How does your normal workflow look like? Are you doing one image at a time or do you work over multiple images at a time?
The reason I ask: The programs you use, the way you work, is much more important considering the performance of your computer than some theoretical benchmarks and tests.
Here some examples: LrC and PS (where you can adjust it) will use all the memory available (what you allow them to use). I have already seen on my computer (64 GB) that LrC and PS used a total of 54 GB of memory when my wife edited several images (e.g. local adjustments) in LrC and has several images (10-12) open in PS for further editing. And by the way, we only work over 24-26 MP images. Summary: Do we need 64 GB? No! Is is nice to have 64 GB? Yes!
In the past I used Topaz DeNoise, but since LrC now also has this functionality I use the built-in solution, also because I like the results better. The problem in here: Seems the LrC DeNoise functionality has a bug / problem utilizing the Neural Engine, therefore utilizes the GPU. Having 19 GPU cores (Pro) or 38 cores (Max) makes here quite a difference. On my M2 Max I process a 26 MP image in 12 sec, on older and less powerful computers users talk about minutes. Summary: Do we need the Max? No! Is it nice to have the Max? Yes!
By the way, someone may argue that memory hungry programs and apps with bugs are not the standard and should not be the base for a decision. Agreed, but reality also shows that such problems always have existed and, most likely, will also exist in the future. Do you need a computer who can deal with such problems? No! Is it nice to have one that can do so? Yes!
As a conclusion: Theoretical specs and benchmarks are the one thing, your very specific usage requirements and behaviors are another thing. A M1/M2 Pro with 32GB, will perform all the tasks you throw at it, but the way you work a M1/M2 Max with more memory may be the better fit for your very specific usage.
So, it may help to always keep in mind that it is not just about what you really "need", it´s also about what you may "want".
Again, I am sure all the models in discussion (M1 or M2, Pro or Max, 32 GB or 64 GB) will fulfill your "needs". So it´s your, agreed difficult, task to carefully evaluate what is it what you may want and what you can afford / want to spend.
Herbert
I see you changed your profile pic😀
this is what i mean, having more RAM is extremely nice if i can afford it, which i can, and imo will make a bigger difference in performance than going from M1 to M2 in Lightroom, etc.
I will be using LrC, as i said before, in addition to Affinity Photo, Capture One, DXO PhotoLab, Darktable, GIMP, RawTherapee, a free web editor called Photopea (which uses a lot of RAM), and Ps. While i know that all if these programs use different amounts/types of resources, those are the programs i will be using, though mostly Lr, Ps, Darktable, and Photolab. I must also mention that i will be denoising the images in DXO PureRaw/Topaz Denoise AI/Lightroom's new denoising feature, all of which use MASSIVE amounts of RAM and overall resources to work well and fast, or you can wait for one image to process for an hour(s), which i am not going to do and dont have time for.
I will also be stitching hi res photos in LrC or other softwares for stitching like Hugin/PTGui Pro. I will sometimes batch process photos, but usually one at a time, so like did 1 photo, moving on to another photo, and so on...but usually just a couple of images.
As for video, which i will do to a lesser extent than photo, i will use Davinci Resolve (which is very very well optimized for Apple Silicon and will use the system resources and M chips to their full extent, so RAM is very important no doubt), Olive video editor to a lesser extent, and FCPX.
I will also be using music programs sometimes like Logic Pro, GarageBand, and Audacity for my music production, al of which also use a lot of system resources.
As you can see, RAM and power is very important to me, amd thats why a used 64gb ram M1 Max MBP is very attractive to me, because you get good enough chip performance, and a lot of RAM, very helpful for LrC, etc...all for 3k! i cannot get that amount of ram under 3k with M2, and i dont want some no-warranty eBay deals.
And yes, my example of having many tabs open in a browser while denoising/editing photos is true, because i might want to listen to some music or look at a tutorial on how to do something in a certain editing software or something in Firefox while processing photos/videos.
The reason i am considering mainly the Max over the Pro is like you said, more gpu cores for faster processing in Lr, etc. I know most people will say "just go make yourself a coffee and wait!" but when you are processing a lot of photos or more than 2, it adds up!
I also will be editing/stitching Canon R5/Sony A7RV/Iv photos, both 45 and 61MP cameras, respectively, and not 20mp like you are working with, and even you with 20-26mp are seeing that LrC is using 40gb of ram! So with 60mp, itll be evn more!
Seems to me, only way to go is Max (Ultra for desktop, but i need laptop, so i cant get an Ultra) for the added GPU cores, and the highest RAM i can afford, which only the M1 Max will allow for more than 32g of ram under 3k, since LrC and other softwares will massively benefit from more RAM.
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