Yup. I did it before finding the model number, to reduce any potential subconscious bias. It's not just me that can see it either.
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16" MacBook Pro ghosting / smearing...
- Thread starter StONE_ROdGEr
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Yup. I did it before finding the model number, to reduce any potential subconscious bias. It's not just me that can see it either.
I've checked at least 7-8 in store units now and haven't seen anything approaching unreadable scrolling text.
These computers today! When Jobs was there, computers worked hard and had quality!
Hey you, get off my lawn!
I really hope you're joking. When Jobs was alive Apple had a quite a few blunders. I can name a laundry list if you would like?
I haven't followed this issue since I got mine and considered it "fine".
Any actual proof the different panel batches produce different results?
Have you guys seen this reddit thread?
I'm honestly thinking there is no manufacturing issue, this is all by design and that if you just can't deal with the ghosting you might have to look for another laptop :/.
Your best hope to get some "closure" on the issue is to get someone with the proper equipment (review website? Youtuber?) to analyze the different versions of the panel and report their findings. I severely doubt the data gathering you're doing here will provide any conclusion, ghosting is too easy to miss if you're not looking for it/not used to fast screens. Even something as simple as comparing different machines at different locations isn't good enough because of the impact of temperature on the results.
Any actual proof the different panel batches produce different results?
Have you guys seen this reddit thread?
I'm honestly thinking there is no manufacturing issue, this is all by design and that if you just can't deal with the ghosting you might have to look for another laptop :/.
Your best hope to get some "closure" on the issue is to get someone with the proper equipment (review website? Youtuber?) to analyze the different versions of the panel and report their findings. I severely doubt the data gathering you're doing here will provide any conclusion, ghosting is too easy to miss if you're not looking for it/not used to fast screens. Even something as simple as comparing different machines at different locations isn't good enough because of the impact of temperature on the results.
No, there is absolutely zero evidence that different panel batches produce different result. There is actually no proof that there are even different panel batches, its just someone's bazaar theory.
Hey guys, I've been following this thread for a while now and finally got my 16 base model last week. Since then I also possibly noticed the ghosting/smearing. It was especially apparent for me while moving the mouse cursor in front of a blueish/purple background (e.g. the stock dynamic hue wallpaper). The cursor then leaves a smearing trail behind.
I also checked out the UFO ghosting test, but on the same page especially the 'Chase Squares' test, which possibly demonstrates the issue pretty well. But now tbh I am not bothered that much by it anymore and perhaps wouldn't have noticed it if it weren't for this thread and some reports on reddit.
Out of curiosity I went to an Apple Store in Germany while shopping for Xmas and checked all four 16" units that were on display. All of them showed the behaviour which I subjectively perceived (moving cursor in front of said wallpaper and looking at the UFO and Chase Squares test). Another 16" unit at an electronics retail store showed the same as were the 13" Pro units. I then went into the Windows camp and checked out some Asus ZenBooks, which also showed the 'cursor trails and color smears'. One of the ZenBooks to a lesser degree tbh, but still... (please keep in mind that this was just my perception. Of course I wasn't able to actually measure differences in quality). The only laptop I checked, that didn't show the behavior was a fancy gaming laptop which came with a 144hz panel. Damn, must have looked like a complete nutjob testing out the machines 😅
After all the impressions, I can finally say that I'm not bothered by it anymore. Perhaps, the other machines showing similar results (in my perception), gave me some peace of mind. Or in the end, I don't really know what the 'ghosting and smearing', that others see really is and therefore shouldn't give a damn about it 😬 Just my 2 cents. Peace!
I also checked out the UFO ghosting test, but on the same page especially the 'Chase Squares' test, which possibly demonstrates the issue pretty well. But now tbh I am not bothered that much by it anymore and perhaps wouldn't have noticed it if it weren't for this thread and some reports on reddit.
Out of curiosity I went to an Apple Store in Germany while shopping for Xmas and checked all four 16" units that were on display. All of them showed the behaviour which I subjectively perceived (moving cursor in front of said wallpaper and looking at the UFO and Chase Squares test). Another 16" unit at an electronics retail store showed the same as were the 13" Pro units. I then went into the Windows camp and checked out some Asus ZenBooks, which also showed the 'cursor trails and color smears'. One of the ZenBooks to a lesser degree tbh, but still... (please keep in mind that this was just my perception. Of course I wasn't able to actually measure differences in quality). The only laptop I checked, that didn't show the behavior was a fancy gaming laptop which came with a 144hz panel. Damn, must have looked like a complete nutjob testing out the machines 😅
After all the impressions, I can finally say that I'm not bothered by it anymore. Perhaps, the other machines showing similar results (in my perception), gave me some peace of mind. Or in the end, I don't really know what the 'ghosting and smearing', that others see really is and therefore shouldn't give a damn about it 😬 Just my 2 cents. Peace!
There is pretty good evidence that the issue can vary a fair amount from 16" screen to 16" screen, though, based on anecdote of the same user with different screens and past measurements of this kind of MBP screen. Notebook Check was among those suggesting in the past that screen batches might explain that.
There is no evidence based on the fact that people with the supposed "later" batches have the issue, and also that people with the "earlier" batches don't have the issue.
There is also nothing to support that there are earlier or later batches of panels. It's all just conjecture and none of it makes any sense.
It makes sense to check out the idea, which is what those concerned are doing. It's not a bizarre idea, at least not to those at Notebook Check. Isolated reports don't settle much, so it makes sense to collect more data.
Just reporting back in with this a couple days on. This one might actually be worse, though I have no accurate way of measuring this, its all based off feel so take that with a pinch of salt.
It will be going back too. Annoyingly again, other than the god awful smearing/ghosting, this is a great machine.
It will be going back too. Annoyingly again, other than the god awful smearing/ghosting, this is a great machine.
I think I'm going to bite the bullet on a Lenovo Y740 at Costco (sale ends sunday) - $1349 for the same i7 processor, 16gb of RAM, 512GB SSD + 1TB hard drive (user accessible 2.5" bay) and an RTX 2060, all mated to a 144hz 1080p display. Not the highest display resolution and certainly not the highest brightness, nor will the battery be up to par with the 16MBP, but it should hold me over until a microLED or 14" MBP.
You just need to realize that this machine is not for you. They are all going to be like that for you. Have you ever gone in a store and found one where you don’t see this? Just seems a little ridiculous that you are thinking that you are going to find some magic screen where your eyes don’t see this.
This is what the screen is. There is no magic lottery panel that you are ping to win.
I'm just some dude so my opinion doesn't really mean anything, but if I was a betting man I'd say with 99% certainty that it's just the spec they chose. Panel orders, like I said, are placed months and months in advance for massive quantities based on sales projections. Samples are tested rigorously to make sure that they're within spec - they wouldn't miss something like this, meaning they probably determined it wouldn't be visible to the naked eye (or at least not to a degree that would bother anyone.) So either that's what they did- and they were wrong in that assumption- or it's a software thing in Catalina, perhaps related to the new adaptable refresh rate settings.
You made the right choice, no point compromising on something as important as the display in a 2-3k machine.
I think most people here still trying to play the panel lottery should do the same and either wait for the next 16" and deal with 1st gen MiniLED (and assume they'll improve response times which is not guaranteed at all imo, they already decided it wasn't an important feature for this iteration), or find an alternative. You're torturing yourselves guys, I'm seeing the same names today I was seeing before I even received my laptop on their 3rd unit still wondering if there's an actual difference or if their eyes are just messing with them.
Yeah, I definitely expect someone to come along and point out that the new machine I chose has a display that's certainly not even on par with the ghostiest of ghosty 16MBP panels for content creation and similar workloads, but I can definitely make do with it and use my external display for color work.
I just can't drop the 3k+ I was looking at for the config I wanted without knowing for damn sure that every little thing is in order.
The waiting game continues.
It's also worth bearing in mind what determines an LCD's response time: the physical thickness of the layers in the panel, the viscosity of the liquid crystal, and whether the panel hardware uses overdrive technology to achieve better performance.
It seems most likely to me that Apple chose a set of design parameters that optimized for factors other than response time: manufacturing cost, energy usage, electronic simplicity, and maybe some other parameters of the display like color gamut, contrast ratio, or uniformity. The slow response time may be a design limitation.
For anyone like myself who has a fast refresh rate monitor (I have a cheap 144Hz 1440p gaming display with a response time of a few ms) the slow response time on the MBP 16 is definitely noticeable and makes it not fun to watch videos or scroll web-pages. But the gaming display, also an IPS LCD display, uses variable overdrive circuitry and no doubt various other tricks, to achieve the fast transitions. It probably uses a lot more power, too.
Most likely the specs of the panel and the circuitry driving it just aren't capable of faster response times. They might make small adjustments from batch to batch, but my guess is it would take choosing an entirely different panel, or adding extra circuitry, to yield enough of an improvement for it to be satisfactory to those who are bothered by the ghosting.
It seems most likely to me that Apple chose a set of design parameters that optimized for factors other than response time: manufacturing cost, energy usage, electronic simplicity, and maybe some other parameters of the display like color gamut, contrast ratio, or uniformity. The slow response time may be a design limitation.
For anyone like myself who has a fast refresh rate monitor (I have a cheap 144Hz 1440p gaming display with a response time of a few ms) the slow response time on the MBP 16 is definitely noticeable and makes it not fun to watch videos or scroll web-pages. But the gaming display, also an IPS LCD display, uses variable overdrive circuitry and no doubt various other tricks, to achieve the fast transitions. It probably uses a lot more power, too.
Most likely the specs of the panel and the circuitry driving it just aren't capable of faster response times. They might make small adjustments from batch to batch, but my guess is it would take choosing an entirely different panel, or adding extra circuitry, to yield enough of an improvement for it to be satisfactory to those who are bothered by the ghosting.
Here's a very unscientific test...
The Wacom MobileStudio Pro 16 is not perfect either, has some smearing or ghosting that is not as bad, but no ever complained as what can you do with such a nice product I even see a red hue in ghosting areas often.
The LG 38" Ultrawide 38UC99, not perfect, not a gaming monitor, but feels like a standard monitor and better than the previous 2
Note: I purchased a pre-built high-end model from an Apple store shortly after it was released.
- iPhone 11 Slow Video (240fps)
- Dragged UFO browser test between the MacBook and 2 displays connected to it.
- Then played back slow speed on phone while recording iPhone screen
- Compiled the 3 displays together and converted to short looping GIF
The Wacom MobileStudio Pro 16 is not perfect either, has some smearing or ghosting that is not as bad, but no ever complained as what can you do with such a nice product I even see a red hue in ghosting areas often.
The LG 38" Ultrawide 38UC99, not perfect, not a gaming monitor, but feels like a standard monitor and better than the previous 2
Note: I purchased a pre-built high-end model from an Apple store shortly after it was released.