16" MacBook Pro ghosting / smearing...

[Passingby]

For anyone who's unsure on the whole ghosting thing, I just made this before I send mine back. (And yes, this is EXACTLY how you see it in person...)

I observed this on all MBP 16 and also MBP 15" 2018 models. It's worse on the newer one, probably because a cheaper panel with lower power. Can be annoying for graphics artists and web designers who move and rotate their graphics layers around against a dark background.

Also tested Razer Blade 17" with the 120Hz OLED panel. It was 1ms response time and incredibly good. But it's not a good time to buy that laptop because Razer's line up should be moving to the new optical switch keyboard and 8 core CPUs soon. 2020 will be interesting to see how laptop makers compete.

 

[Viamusic10000]

I pulled the trigger. Very noticeable in dark mode but not in light mode. Not going to be returning it because otherwise everything including the popping is in working order and I don't think I would have noticed it if it hadn't been brought up since in my normal use its barely noticeable. It's only when I try to read texts while scrolling at a medium fast feed it becomes bothersome (some people might do this more than me). Its def there and if I were a programmer working in dark mode all the time I'd have to reconsider the computer for sure. If people aren't perceiving this, they aren't using the computer in dark mode or aren't seeing a lot of white on black text in general.

 

[Sanpete]

it just was never this way with other models in the past

Judging from Notebook Check's measurements it's been roughly this way since 2016.

 

[impulse462]

I pulled the trigger. Very noticeable in dark mode but not in light mode. Not going to be returning it because otherwise everything including the popping is in working order and I don't think I would have noticed it if it hadn't been brought up since in my normal use its barely noticeable. It's only when I try to read texts while scrolling at a medium fast feed it becomes bothersome (some people might do this more than me). Its def there and if I were a programmer working in dark mode all the time I'd have to reconsider the computer for sure. If people aren't perceiving this, they aren't using the computer in dark mode or aren't seeing a lot of white on black text in general.

i program a lot in dark mode and i never noticed it until i read this thread. now if i look for it i notice it only then, but when im actually doing something i dont

 

[Viamusic10000]

i program a lot in dark mode and i never noticed it until i read this thread. now if i look for it i notice it only then, but when im actually doing something i dont

I’ve never been sensitive to ghosting either but some obviously are and would find this irritating. My comment isn’t directed at you but more the people saying “nope no ghosting on mine”. If you aren’t seeing you aren’t lookinG, the unit variance on Apple products is pretty minimal for better or worse.

 

[Coyote2006]

Just installed Catalina on my 2013 15" with NVIDIA GPU and switched to dark mode. No ghosting at all. Is this an AMD driver problem? Looks horrible for a 2019 high end laptop for $4000 ... wow very annoying

 

[Viamusic10000]

Just installed Catalina on my 2013 15" with NVIDIA GPU and switched to dark mode. No ghosting at all. Is this an AMD driver problem? Looks horrible for a 2019 high end laptop for $4000 ... wow very annoying

It’s probably panel choice

 

[Passingby]

Just installed Catalina on my 2013 15" with NVIDIA GPU and switched to dark mode. No ghosting at all. Is this an AMD driver problem? Looks horrible for a 2019 high end laptop for $4000 ... wow very annoying

Less ghosting for sure before retina panels. I tried MacBook Pro 17" and it was less too.

 

[Coyote2006]

Less ghosting for sure before retina panels. I tried MacBook Pro 17" and it was less too.

I do have a retina panel on my 15" 2013 MacBook Pro.

There is some kind of Ghosting in dark mode but not as much as on the video. The eyes do have more problem with bright objects on dark backgrounds, but it's ok on my mbp.

I wonder if this also happens on the XDR display in dark mode

 

[Viamusic10000]

I do have a retina panel on my 15" 2013 MacBook Pro.

There is some kind of Ghosting in dark mode but not as much as on the video. The eyes do have more problem with bright objects on dark backgrounds, but it's ok on my mbp.

I wonder if this also happens on the XDR display in dark mode

I think you need to compare in person.

 

[fs454]

Picked up my 16" yesterday and the screen is great. It's brighter than my late 2016 15" model by a couple "clicks" (obviously unscientific, but it's definitely a bit brighter when placed next to each other), the ghosting is just about on par with the previous model too. Text noticeably smeared when dragging a window around in Dark Mode, but so is my 2016. I don't think it's bad when used as intended.

Played a few rounds of Halo Reach multiplayer on it (60fps @ native res via Windows 10!), I was able to dominate as I would on my desktop gaming setup, finishing top 3 in slayer on more than a few rounds - so it's definitely usable for high-motion stuff like shooters. The screen has absolutely normal levels of ghosting for an ultra thin high-dpi display and doesn't seem out of the ordinary.

Now that I have my 16": the thermals for the 16" appear to be a real issue, this is not (compared to my 2017 15").

I'm also not sure about thermals issues - 2 full hours of Halo multiplayer and it didn't drop below 60fps the entire time. I'm gonna get some transcodes going in macOS over the weekend to see how it does over there, but once again all seems well over here.

 

[Nacho98]

I mean, guys - the response time is clearly a design specification, not a defect.

There's a difference.

That said, I don't have/notice any ghosting and am as happy with the screen as Apple is to put their moniker on the machine. Sure there's going to be some variability between panels, but at the end of the day it's all variability around a set, intentional specification.

If you don't like it, it's pretty simple what you need to do.

 

[Sanpete]

1000 holymotherofgod nits!

...

Your turn Apple.

In case they want to add a flashlight function to the MBP.

 

[harrisonjr98]

For anyone who's unsure on the whole ghosting thing, I just made this before I send mine back. (And yes, this is EXACTLY how you see it in person...)

I've now fiddled with the display units at the Apple Store, Best Buy, Costco and Sam's and I have yet to see anything even close to as bad as what you're showing in the video. Does it really look exactly like that in person? This kind of thing is very hard to capture on camera, but if it looks that bad in person to the naked eye I don't really blame you for returning your unit.

When I've done the window dragging and UFO test on the store units I have yet to see anything noticeably worse than other LCD panels (including the panels on the 13" MBPs sitting right next to the 16s in store.)

 

[sat24]

For those running into this issue only --

Are you noticing an issue where the ghosting/smearing is way worse suddenly and then quite a bit better at other times? The only correlation I can make is the iGPU vs. dGPU.

For e.g. I used to be annoyed by this text smearing quite a bit in the beginning. Then I discovered the gSwitch app. Since that, I forced the machine to always use iGPU. At that point onwards, it seems like my ghosting issue was quite a bit tolerable - in fact, it was good enough that I decided to keep the machine (because otherwise, this is one fantastic machine). Then today, I got a USB-C to Displayport Cable and connected the machine to my Dell 4K monitor. Immediately, I noticed that text smearing had gotten way worse [on the MBP16 display; Dell looked amazing and has -0- smearing)! The only difference at that point was that the MBP16, when connected to the external display had FORCED the use of dGPU (even with gSwitch, I am unable to force iGPU)

So - in short, it seems like smearing is worse with the dGPU engaged. Question: Is anyone else observing the same thing? Given that I almost always use iGPU (for battery life purposes) via gSwitch, and when connected to external monitor, I plan to only use the external monitor (no dual monitor stuff with the MBP16 lcd), seems like I might be ok here.

I am also hoping that this means there is some small hope that Apple could address this via a software driver update for the dGPU as the iGPU has this issue to smaller degree.

edit: And its not like I can readily reproduce this by switching to the gGPU vs. iGPU. For some reason, it only seems to occur somewhat unpredictably when the dGPU is engaged.

 

[Passingby]

The worst part of this is for animators. If they create an animation against a dark background it will look like there is motion blur around their moving objects. They will always have to use an external monitor to see the true representation of their work.

If a machine is marketed as 'pro' it should have a fast screen to avoid these unwanted affects that professional users don't want to see.

 

[-narcan-]

I've now fiddled with the display units at the Apple Store, Best Buy, Costco and Sam's and I have yet to see anything even close to as bad as what you're showing in the video. Does it really look exactly like that in person?

Yep for me looks pretty much exactly like that. I've looked about maybe 10 MBPs, ones ordered / purchased as well as display model ones in Apple store exactly and they're all the same unfortunately !

 

[sat24]

For those running into this issue only --

Are you noticing an issue where the ghosting/smearing is way worse suddenly and then quite a bit better at other times? The only correlation I can make is the iGPU vs. dGPU.

For e.g. I used to be annoyed by this text smearing quite a bit in the beginning. Then I discovered the gSwitch app. Since that, I forced the machine to always use iGPU. At that point onwards, it seems like my ghosting issue was quite a bit tolerable - in fact, it was good enough that I decided to keep the machine (because otherwise, this is one fantastic machine). Then today, I got a USB-C to Displayport Cable and connected the machine to my Dell 4K monitor. Immediately, I noticed that text smearing had gotten way worse [on the MBP16 display; Dell looked amazing and has -0- smearing)! The only difference at that point was that the MBP16, when connected to the external display had FORCED the use of dGPU (even with gSwitch, I am unable to force iGPU)

So - in short, it seems like smearing is worse with the dGPU engaged. Question: Is anyone else observing the same thing? Given that I almost always use iGPU (for battery life purposes) via gSwitch, and when connected to external monitor, I plan to only use the external monitor (no dual monitor stuff with the MBP16 lcd), seems like I might be ok here.

I am also hoping that this means there is some small hope that Apple could address this via a software driver update for the dGPU as the iGPU has this issue to smaller degree.

edit: And its not like I can readily reproduce this by switching to the gGPU vs. iGPU. For some reason, it only seems to occur somewhat unpredictably when the dGPU is engaged.

It seems like TrueTone being off also makes it worse. Turning on TrueTone helps reduce ghosting. Go figure.

 

[waquzy]

For anyone who's unsure on the whole ghosting thing, I just made this before I send mine back. (And yes, this is EXACTLY how you see it in person...)

All the MacBook's I have owned over the years have had the exact same ghosting that is being demonstrated in the video. I'm currently on the 2017 MBP and I just tested it and it ghosts the same way as yours. I didn't know this was a problem? It doesn't affect me the slightest

 

[StONE_ROdGEr]

Does it really look exactly like that in person? This kind of thing is very hard to capture on camera

Yes and no it’s not difficult at all. Open your iPhone and aim at the screen, click a spot on the sys prefs window before dragging so its properly exposed and... literally move in any direction (I chose circular as it highlights the problem easily).

@sat24 switching GPU has never made a difference to me ghosting wise.

 

[Coyote2006]

I went back to the local Apple store today to check the ghosting and it's worse than on my 2013 15" MBP. By the way, all the MBPs there has this ghosting, also the 13".

It looks like the iGPU is running by default and the Radeon only starts on heavier load. Maybe a 16" owner could force the MBP to run the Radeon (by terminal) all the time and check if the ghosting still exists?

 

[Passingby]

I went back to the local Apple store today to check the ghosting and it's worse than on my 2013 15" MBP. By the way, all the MBPs there has this ghosting, also the 13".

It looks like the iGPU is running by default and the Radeon only starts on heavier load. Maybe a 16" owner could force the MBP to run the Radeon (by terminal) all the time and check if the ghosting still exists?

No difference. That's the physical spec of the screen. Different GPUs has no affect on it.

 

[Coyote2006]

No difference. That's the physical spec of the screen. Different GPUs has no affect on it.

Ah, ok thanks.

 

[harrisonjr98]

So - in short, it seems like smearing is worse with the dGPU engaged. Question: Is anyone else observing the same thing? Given that I almost always use iGPU (for battery life purposes) via gSwitch, and when connected to external monitor, I plan to only use the external monitor (no dual monitor stuff with the MBP16 lcd), seems like I might be ok here.

You should test this to see if you can back it up with quantifiable results. That would be... interesting, to say the least.

 

[sat24]

@sat24 switching GPU has never made a difference to me ghosting wise.

Got it. For me, it seems to be a combination of GPU and truetone that seems to cause it to cross my "acceptance threshold". In fact the less white the (white) text or other elements on the screen, the less visible the smearing is (against a dark background). So things like nightshift help in this situation more. Perhaps this explains why most people don't "see" this problem as Truetone is enabled by default and the screen seems to be much yellow even as it leaves the factory. People do of course complain about the yellowness but perhaps that just masks the smearing effect.