Hell may freeze over any year now. People have been waiting for Apple to care about response time for decades.
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16" MacBook Pro ghosting / smearing...
- Thread starter StONE_ROdGEr
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We got 120hz now we need to scream at them for improved response time. I do notice the ghosting but I don't really mind to be honest it never bothered me before after switching from a 240hz gaming laptop to the prev 16" MacBook Pro the XDR monitor with 120hz looks smooth and nice but I do understand there is many apps that still need to be updated to support it... including safari wth Apple that would have made safari snappier 🤣
To be honest, I learned not to mind it too, my Dell P2415Q has its own unique display issues, OLED has it's issues, IPS has its issues, mini-leds turned out to be regular leds with just more zones, Apple seems to have the best zones fyi, sad to learn we still have to wait for perfection
But ultimately I made peace with it all, I just enjoy the device, don't even use external monitors any more as it's more bothersome to deal with different issues, connection issues and so on
At least the sound is phenomenal
But ultimately I made peace with it all, I just enjoy the device, don't even use external monitors any more as it's more bothersome to deal with different issues, connection issues and so on
At least the sound is phenomenal
Thanks for this. What a sad time… I’ve updated the original post so people don’t have to dig through 37 pages of debate 😢
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The notebookcheck.net display response time data for the 12.9" ipad pro (mini led) are really not spectacular either, basically on par with those of the 2019 16 inch.
Notebookcheck say they will publish their reviews in a couple of days, so we'll know for sure at this point
Notebookcheck say they will publish their reviews in a couple of days, so we'll know for sure at this point
So I posted in this thread a few times in the past and I now have the 16" M1 Max to compare to my 16" i9 Intel.
I would say this display is an improvement but it's still not as good as the 15" from 2015. However when this display engages 120Hz mode (which is actually harder than you'd think, most apps don't engage it) the response time improves drastically and I'd say surpasses the 2015 15".
The problem is of course this is Pro Motion and there's no way currently known to force 120Hz all the time. Hopefully a developer comes up with something because I'd rather take the hit to battery to get that buttery-smoother high frame rate all the time. It's probably just a matter of time before someone comes up with it.
In Chrome scrolling with your fingers on the touchpad does appear to engage Pro Motion all the way to 120Hz and it is noticeably quick. Soon as you let go of the touchpad though it goes back to 60Hz. Safari doesn't appear to engage 120Hz at all.
You can also engage 120Hz by grabbing an application window and dragging it around the screen. I suspect the operating system which handles app windows is optimised for Pro Motion.
Right now very inconsistent, it will be difficult to get an accurate refresh rate read on these in testing until we have some way to force 120Hz on all the time.
I would say this display is an improvement but it's still not as good as the 15" from 2015. However when this display engages 120Hz mode (which is actually harder than you'd think, most apps don't engage it) the response time improves drastically and I'd say surpasses the 2015 15".
The problem is of course this is Pro Motion and there's no way currently known to force 120Hz all the time. Hopefully a developer comes up with something because I'd rather take the hit to battery to get that buttery-smoother high frame rate all the time. It's probably just a matter of time before someone comes up with it.
In Chrome scrolling with your fingers on the touchpad does appear to engage Pro Motion all the way to 120Hz and it is noticeably quick. Soon as you let go of the touchpad though it goes back to 60Hz. Safari doesn't appear to engage 120Hz at all.
You can also engage 120Hz by grabbing an application window and dragging it around the screen. I suspect the operating system which handles app windows is optimised for Pro Motion.
Right now very inconsistent, it will be difficult to get an accurate refresh rate read on these in testing until we have some way to force 120Hz on all the time.
I just tried this on my and I do not get this much smearing as you. Def a panel lottery with these. I still have my 2019 16" that's going for sale and that one has that extreme smearing as In your video here. If I were you I would try another unit.
I didn't see this video until just now. I don't have smearing like this on mine, your example here is shocking to me actually. I guess they are dual sourcing displays or you got a dud.
In slow motion it doesn't look too different. But .. neither does my 165Hz Gaming monitor on Windows if I record that in the same manner with slow motion.
On a normal video it looks well.. normal and the ghosting looks in line with any other great display I ever saw. Honestly I'm quite happy with this panel. I would often notice my 16" i9 Intel ghosting while scrolling and think about its slow display. I've not had that at all with this, it just feels faster.
EDIT:// I'll upload videos, give me a moment
Okay here are two videos for you.
Slow Mo: https://i.pixita.com/8ysdPu6tn.mp4
Normal: https://i.pixita.com/xYAur5aaE.mp4
I feel like it looks great in person, the videos definitely exaggerate the ghosting.
Slow Mo: https://i.pixita.com/8ysdPu6tn.mp4
Normal: https://i.pixita.com/xYAur5aaE.mp4
I feel like it looks great in person, the videos definitely exaggerate the ghosting.
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I'm just describing what I'm seeing but I'd imagine it would decrease ghosting due to refreshing the display twice as much per second.
Ghosting is way noticable when you move something white over black, could you test it this way?
When you pause any video, you can count 4-6 ghosts in each - if it's a bug and not a feature (what happens for example when you turn on "Reduce Transparency") seems like it's a ghoster
No one really explains the technologies in detail, we're blind, they don't even advertise it as a mini-led, but I guess these monitors are just a regular ghoster IPS screens, just faster and with more zones?
But to be honest, if we are 40ms ghosters, and these new screens end up being 20ms ghosters, even that's something
With a 60Hz panel the pixels only have to change once every 16.6ms but with 120Hz they have to change every 8.3ms - If the display takes longer than 8.3ms to refresh something then it can't be labelled as 120Hz as it wont physically be able to fit in enough refreshes per second to reach that frame rate.
Thus the higher the frame rate is the lower the upper limit of response that can be. Some of the reviews of the Intel 16" put the response time (black to white) at 34.9ms which is high, twice as high as would be acceptable for 60Hz even which is why it looked so ghosty and noticeably slower than other 60Hz panels we've all seen before.
I will do some of the other tests people want to see and I'll also do a comparison to a high refresh rate display I have (PG279Q, 165Hz IPS).
I'm not aware of any labeling requirement like that. The response time for the 15" screens was typically in the area of 30ms. You can see when the response time is longer than the refresh time, there's a trail of one of more ghosts for moving images.
Look forward to your further results.
Okay so I have two videos here. One is an Asus PG279Q and one is the MacBook Pro 16".
PG279Q: https://i.pixita.com/gVb66zX5q.mp4
MBP 16": https://i.pixita.com/apFumBTSW.mp4
To me the MBP 16" has more ghosting in this video but I wouldn't say they're night and day different. Both exhibit some ghosting.
The thing is though, that PG279Q? - 165Hz, IPS with a 4ms g2g time according to Asus but is actually 10.2ms according to TFTCentral.
So ya know, in my opinion the MBP looks pretty good. Like in normal use I am not noticing the display be slow to a degree that I stop what I'm doing to think about how slow the display is which is something that occurred all the time with my 16" Intel, it bothered me often. This display has not made me pause for concern about its responsiveness since the moment I got it.
In-fact when I first opened it the very first thing I did was check how responsive the display is, even during the setup screen and I thought to myself finally. So my overall message to others would be, it's good.
PG279Q: https://i.pixita.com/gVb66zX5q.mp4
MBP 16": https://i.pixita.com/apFumBTSW.mp4
To me the MBP 16" has more ghosting in this video but I wouldn't say they're night and day different. Both exhibit some ghosting.
The thing is though, that PG279Q? - 165Hz, IPS with a 4ms g2g time according to Asus but is actually 10.2ms according to TFTCentral.
So ya know, in my opinion the MBP looks pretty good. Like in normal use I am not noticing the display be slow to a degree that I stop what I'm doing to think about how slow the display is which is something that occurred all the time with my 16" Intel, it bothered me often. This display has not made me pause for concern about its responsiveness since the moment I got it.
In-fact when I first opened it the very first thing I did was check how responsive the display is, even during the setup screen and I thought to myself finally. So my overall message to others would be, it's good.