there is ghosting/smearing in that model too... your perception about This is wrong.
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16" MacBook Pro ghosting / smearing...
- Thread starter StONE_ROdGEr
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there is ghosting/smearing in that model too... your perception about This is wrong.
there is a terrible truth that 16 mbp has terrible display for dynamic images or scrolling text. This is not acceptable. It makes significant eye strain during scrolling. There are some arguments that this is a designer laptop good color accuracy bla bla bla...nothing can hide the terrible truth. The display is only good for static images and you can use it as family photo viewer but when you touch mouse scroll button, every pixels lose their mind and occur ultra terrible smearing issue. Accept or not fanboys. This display is not well calibrated and not able to pass quality control...
I haven't been able to read this entire huge thread yet, but I'm curious if there is any update on this issue in regards to newer manufacturing dates, or if it was definitively found out if multiple panel vendors are being used?
I just bought an "renewed" MBP 16" from Amazon, I was very excited to receive it, but the screen has been driving me a little nuts, scrolling websites or code/text, which is like most of what I do on the computer, feels markedly slower and more jittery than any of the several MBP I have owned in the past, considering returning it just because of this reason.
I just bought an "renewed" MBP 16" from Amazon, I was very excited to receive it, but the screen has been driving me a little nuts, scrolling websites or code/text, which is like most of what I do on the computer, feels markedly slower and more jittery than any of the several MBP I have owned in the past, considering returning it just because of this reason.
It was basically never definitively nailed down, which is why the thread has been dormant. Some people are definitely susceptible to noticing the (very real, and documented with video) differences between this panel and previous ones.
Others are placebo-ing themselves to death, and are basically just paying attention to - and therefore noticing - the obvious limits of 60 Hz.
Apple has yet to acknowledge it in an official capacity, other than anecdotal phone calls with AppleCare that people think are authoritative (lol.)
It's basically a stalemate.
Hmm, that's too bad. Maybe mini-LED will save the day one of these days. I found this thread after wondering if something was wrong with my unit in particular. maybe the 10ms or whatever difference between the 16" and earlier retina models is enough for me to notice. I know very little about displays, but as a music guy I can say that 10ms is a huge difference in terms of latency in the audio world.
Soon as they release one with a fast reacting display (MicroLED or whatever it may end up being powered by) I'll upgrade. It's really the only shortcoming of the laptop I have. My wife is still using my 2015 MBP and every time I swing by and see the screen and her scrolling I notice immediately how much smoother it looks.
I think keeping this displays variable refresh rate characteristic with its high colour bit depth is what caused this result. It's not a fault, it's designed this way to maintain all the specifications Apple set out to accomplish. I think if they had made it 8-bit instead of 10-bit or got rid of the variability we could have gotten a display with the same reaction times as the previous generation models.
Hopefully something that is rectified in the future.
I think keeping this displays variable refresh rate characteristic with its high colour bit depth is what caused this result. It's not a fault, it's designed this way to maintain all the specifications Apple set out to accomplish. I think if they had made it 8-bit instead of 10-bit or got rid of the variability we could have gotten a display with the same reaction times as the previous generation models.
Hopefully something that is rectified in the future.
I don’t think it’s the refresh rate, I think it’s the panels response time which is responsible for this. I’ve got an old Dell laptop running at 60 Hz and that has absolutely zero ghosting and smearing because it’s panels response time is incredibly quick. Pretty sure that’s how it works anyway.
Yes its the pixel response time and GtoG response times, however higher Hz panels generally factor this in, sometimes.
New owner of the 16 inch here, the display indeed has slow response times. I wouldn't say it is disturbing (I had to look for it to actually see it), and if you're coming from a macbook pro, chances are you won't notice the difference because these have traditionally had slow displays. To me the upsides of this display (contrast/brigthness, gamut and color accuracy) far outweigh the problems.
I really do not understand how coders deal with this terrible display... especially working with black background. I have never sen a display worse than mbp 16 about smearing. When you scroll, every pixel lose tehir minds... thesebkind of display should not be classified as monitor because monitors manage to view dynamic views but mbp 16 display is much more like a Quick printer
Have to agree it's terrible on dark backgrounds. Extremely noticeable ghosting. I did keep my machine but I seldom use the display on it sadly, use it plugged into an external 4K monitor from Dell most of the time.
I'm thinking I'll probably sell it and buy the first ARM version if the display is reviewed better on it.
I'm thinking I'll probably sell it and buy the first ARM version if the display is reviewed better on it.
i have never felt happy any single day after using this laptop, i have paid 3 times of my salary to buy this but terrible smearing display which caused eye strain headache. i really wonder why in thousands of apple engineers did not make sth true to fix this. ultra slow pixel response time issue.
i can not understand how animation workers make animations with this laptop. every single moving object makes smearing. this is not a designer display because you can not design animated projects with these kind of terrible display
i do not understand why do not apple allow a pro mode for these laptops including changing refresh rate and pixel response time via overdrive. battery life concerns make apple these kind of terrible outputs but if you give chance to choose how to use a laptop (regular or pro) so everything becomes much more clear.
i can not understand how animation workers make animations with this laptop. every single moving object makes smearing. this is not a designer display because you can not design animated projects with these kind of terrible display
i do not understand why do not apple allow a pro mode for these laptops including changing refresh rate and pixel response time via overdrive. battery life concerns make apple these kind of terrible outputs but if you give chance to choose how to use a laptop (regular or pro) so everything becomes much more clear.
After a month with the 16 inch, and many comparisons with the 15 inch from late 2013:
Does the 16 inch display ghost more than the 15 inch? Yes, absolutely.
Is it bothering? Well, that depends on you I guess. I was initially bothered but I was surprised how fast I adjusted to it, to the point that I do no longer see it and in fact enjoy the new display more than the former one.
Here are a few additional observations:
- I had to very slightly bump up the display contrast in the Accessibility preferences to match the contrast of my former machine. With the contrast bumped up, the ghosting is actually reduced, because you reduce the amount of intermediate shades.
- Much more than ghosting itself, the thing that stands out between my former 15 inch 2013 machine and the 16 inch is the lack of power of the integrated GPU. To me this GPU lacks power to drive the display in normal operation, reslulting in more stuttering / unevenness in the scrolling in normal use. This goes away when using the discrete GPU, everything is smooth once this is enabled. This was definitely not the case with my former machine, where the iGPU was as smooth as the dGPU for normal GUI operation. Given that normal GUI operation is not especially demanding, I feel that there is something that Apple could do here software-wise, it appears that there's something not properly optimised here.
What have done is set my machine to be permanently on the dGPU when it is on mains power (sudo pmset -c gpuswitch 1).
All in all, a solid upgrade for me, but it's not without glitches as you can see.
Does the 16 inch display ghost more than the 15 inch? Yes, absolutely.
Is it bothering? Well, that depends on you I guess. I was initially bothered but I was surprised how fast I adjusted to it, to the point that I do no longer see it and in fact enjoy the new display more than the former one.
Here are a few additional observations:
- I had to very slightly bump up the display contrast in the Accessibility preferences to match the contrast of my former machine. With the contrast bumped up, the ghosting is actually reduced, because you reduce the amount of intermediate shades.
- Much more than ghosting itself, the thing that stands out between my former 15 inch 2013 machine and the 16 inch is the lack of power of the integrated GPU. To me this GPU lacks power to drive the display in normal operation, reslulting in more stuttering / unevenness in the scrolling in normal use. This goes away when using the discrete GPU, everything is smooth once this is enabled. This was definitely not the case with my former machine, where the iGPU was as smooth as the dGPU for normal GUI operation. Given that normal GUI operation is not especially demanding, I feel that there is something that Apple could do here software-wise, it appears that there's something not properly optimised here.
What have done is set my machine to be permanently on the dGPU when it is on mains power (sudo pmset -c gpuswitch 1).
All in all, a solid upgrade for me, but it's not without glitches as you can see.
Interesting, I just got my 16" 2 weeks ago and I've ran through the tests and do not notice ghosting.
I have a MBP 16 from. April, May, June, July, Aug 2020.
The screens are identical, anyone trying to blow smoke up your ass that the screens are any better on newer models is simply not true.
These screens are choppy as they come for scrolling text, its really my only big complaint with this laptop is the screen is ****. Besides this, im happy with it; Colors good.
Anyone saying otherwise either have bad eyes; or you cant detect the problem due to having no reference of a decent screen. Ignorance is bliss, so consider yourself lucky once you see it you can never unsee it.
I have 165hz screens and the macbook near it looks like a 15 year outdated screen with its choppy screen and even worse Black on White pixel trailing.
However the amazing trackpad keeps me happy. Even though I have to look at donkey **** when theres any motion on the screen to put it lightly. No big deal, i have apple care so if the new unit fixes it, i;ll push for it.
The screens are identical, anyone trying to blow smoke up your ass that the screens are any better on newer models is simply not true.
These screens are choppy as they come for scrolling text, its really my only big complaint with this laptop is the screen is ****. Besides this, im happy with it; Colors good.
Anyone saying otherwise either have bad eyes; or you cant detect the problem due to having no reference of a decent screen. Ignorance is bliss, so consider yourself lucky once you see it you can never unsee it.
I have 165hz screens and the macbook near it looks like a 15 year outdated screen with its choppy screen and even worse Black on White pixel trailing.
However the amazing trackpad keeps me happy. Even though I have to look at donkey **** when theres any motion on the screen to put it lightly. No big deal, i have apple care so if the new unit fixes it, i;ll push for it.
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I'm scrolling down this page in dark mode on my 2019 16" MBP. White on black text. I see no visible tearing or ghosting. Smooth as silk. I can follow the text just fine. No problems whatsoever.
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You absolutely should return it!
Not only is it possible there’ll be a new model within days, it’s not meeting your reasonable standards and expectations regarding pixel response, so you shouldn’t accept it.
Hows everyone doing?
I still kept my 16 incher due to I need Logic Pro X in music work.
I have mine hooked up to an external monitor.
Sometimes and I don't know why the external monitor goes black during starts ups and I have to unplug the power cable to the external to get it to work.
But during those times when I scroll some safari or whatever on the native display I get reminded of how absolute trash **** the response time is on these display. I still dont understand it, its embarrasing that people have to use an external monitor to their 3000$ laptop right?
I am one of those who cant use the display without getting motion sickness from the blur.
I have not had this issue with any display whatsoever in my whole life. I had the 2015 13 inch Macbook Pro before, yes it had some blurriness but nothing that made me sick but the 16 incher is horrible.
Rant over, I just got reminded of this when I saw the M1 macs on youtube and thought, wonder if the displays are still ****?
Happy ghosting days dudes.
I still kept my 16 incher due to I need Logic Pro X in music work.
I have mine hooked up to an external monitor.
Sometimes and I don't know why the external monitor goes black during starts ups and I have to unplug the power cable to the external to get it to work.
But during those times when I scroll some safari or whatever on the native display I get reminded of how absolute trash **** the response time is on these display. I still dont understand it, its embarrasing that people have to use an external monitor to their 3000$ laptop right?
I am one of those who cant use the display without getting motion sickness from the blur.
I have not had this issue with any display whatsoever in my whole life. I had the 2015 13 inch Macbook Pro before, yes it had some blurriness but nothing that made me sick but the 16 incher is horrible.
Rant over, I just got reminded of this when I saw the M1 macs on youtube and thought, wonder if the displays are still ****?
Happy ghosting days dudes.