16" MacBook Pro ghosting / smearing...

[Metrosey]

For the price, yes, they should have a better display. I’m a bit out of the picture with this issue outside the 16 inch Pro. Does the 2020 13 inch Pro also display the same issues? I’m assuming both panels are made by the same company?

 

[kaans]

A review from a long time IPS screen user and a general obsessive person:

Believe it or not, I've read the entire thread, mainly because I was both bored and curious, and even though I was going to buy an 16 inch almost a month ago, at that time, this issue made me give up on the idea (I was also afraid of getting the T2 chip issues) - Time will tell whether I made the logical choice, if Apple hints better monitors with Intel Macbook Pro's in WWDC etc. - I will feel sorrow. Anyway, here comes my analysis:

First of all, I feel the pain of those who notice and can not unsee the ghosting, I remember experiencing the same phenomenon when I first got my Dell IPS P2415Q - the scrolling experience was just so unexpected - later on, while developing my game, I also noticed tearing, assumably because Mac's don't have Freesync (I tested other monitors too, multiple system with the same monitor, including high-end GPU's) - I was devastated by the fact that you can't buy a regular 60Hz IPS monitor for a Macbook, and not experience these issues - but over the years, I accepted this fact (There are monitors like Asus PG27UQ etc. that exceed 60hz with IPS, they might've solved my problem) - TL;DR: I was addicted to IPS quality, but the IPS issues haunted me, I couldn't accept them, kept seeking something better, only to never find it

After testing the 16" Macbook, I can confidently say it's a better Retina IPS monitor than my 2017 Touchbar one with Radeon 560 - When I first got the 2017 too, since I was used to a non-sync 60hz external IPS, a synced 60hz internal IPS was superior - I never noticed any issues

Yes, the ghosting is there, but it's an IPS monitor issue, and if I'm being honest, as someone who's obsessed on a pixel level, and as someone having his own monitor quality testing tools (for my own usage, see: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/does-pro-display-xdr-have-synced-frame-rates.2240459/) - I'll say that this is really not an issue

It's more a fact/property: IPS monitors have inherent properties, there's trailing, there are corner glows, high performance ones are rare and super expensive, and I'm sure even they have their issues

But I'll repeat again, I do wish we could have it all, but I accepted the fact that for a long long while, I'll just suffer the occasional visual torture (my external IPS has tearing) - so for me, using the internal screen that people complain about is even a better experience than using external ones, if Apple produces an anti-glare version, I would even ditch using an external screen and just do everything looking at the device

I'll also say that I just don't like Apple, even hate Apple's rotten guts, but is there a better alternative for me? No. I'm locked in

 

[serge94]

A review from a long time IPS screen user and a general obsessive person:

Believe it or not, I've read the entire thread, mainly because I was both bored and curious, and even though I was going to buy an 16 inch almost a month ago, at that time, this issue made me give up on the idea (I was also afraid of getting the T2 chip issues) - Time will tell whether I made the logical choice, if Apple hints better monitors with Intel Macbook Pro's in WWDC etc. - I will feel sorrow. Anyway, here comes my analysis:

First of all, I feel the pain of those who notice and can not unsee the ghosting, I remember experiencing the same phenomenon when I first got my Dell IPS P2415Q - the scrolling experience was just so unexpected - later on, while developing my game, I also noticed tearing, assumably because Mac's don't have Freesync (I tested other monitors too, multiple system with the same monitor, including high-end GPU's) - I was devastated by the fact that you can't buy a regular 60Hz IPS monitor for a Macbook, and not experience these issues - but over the years, I accepted this fact (There are monitors like Asus PG27UQ etc. that exceed 60hz with IPS, they might've solved my problem) - TL;DR: I was addicted to IPS quality, but the IPS issues haunted me, I couldn't accept them, kept seeking something better, only to never find it

After testing the 16" Macbook, I can confidently say it's a better Retina IPS monitor than my 2017 Touchbar one with Radeon 560 - When I first got the 2017 too, since I was used to a non-sync 60hz external IPS, a synced 60hz internal IPS was superior - I never noticed any issues

Yes, the ghosting is there, but it's an IPS monitor issue, and if I'm being honest, as someone who's obsessed on a pixel level, and as someone having his own monitor quality testing tools (for my own usage, see: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/does-pro-display-xdr-have-synced-frame-rates.2240459/) - I'll say that this is really not an issue

It's more a fact/property: IPS monitors have inherent properties, there's trailing, there are corner glows, high performance ones are rare and super expensive, and I'm sure even they have their issues

But I'll repeat again, I do wish we could have it all, but I accepted the fact that for a long long while, I'll just suffer the occasional visual torture (my external IPS has tearing) - so for me, using the internal screen that people complain about is even a better experience than using external ones, if Apple produces an anti-glare version, I would even ditch using an external screen and just do everything looking at the device

I'll also say that I just don't like Apple, even hate Apple's rotten guts, but is there a better alternative for me? No. I'm locked in

If it's an IPS issue, then how do you explain that the 2015 Retina display is waaay better? That's also an IPS display, it's just a better one overall.

 

[kaans]

"waaay" is relative, if you quantify the issue, then divide it by resolution, the new one could be better

I didn't test the 2015, but by doing the same things with 2017 side by side, 2019 was waaay better for me

 

[serge94]

"waaay" is relative, if you quantify the issue, then divide it by resolution, the new one could be better

I didn't test the 2015, but by doing the same things with 2017 side by side, 2019 was waaay better for me

There are countless pictures everywhere on this forum and on the Apple forums comparing the two displays. I'd say it's a fact by now and it's horrible that Apple can launch a new product claiming that it's better when in actuality it's not. Yeah, sure, they gave us better color accuracy but at the cost of response time.

 

[joseph.s.jones]

I looked into the brand new Dell XPS 17 as an alternative to the MBP 16. I contacted Dell customer service asking about the 17” 3840 x 2400 display response times. They confirmed it was 35ms. Notebookcheck shows the MBP 16 as 34.9ms so they’re the same. It seems that we’re hard pushed to find laptops with these screen sizes, small bezels, power and portability but with a faster display.

If anyone knows another alternative, please let me know as I’m still researching my purchase.

 

[kaans]

I think you guys are just justifying Apple Marketing Dept.s practices, I mean it's not like the previous generations had 4ms and we now have 30-40ms, they had 30-40ms, we seem to still have 30-40ms - You kinda expect them to drop 39ms to 35ms and advertise "5% Faster Display" - it's still the average slow IPS

 

[Alex W.]

Lol. under what circumstances is it important for you that there must be NO "ghosting" flipping your screen images back and forth like that? None.

Do you know that motion blur is a phenomenon with photography and video, and in reality? Just wave your hand in front of your eyes. See that? It's ghosting.

[Sarcasm. 😉]

Scrolling on a webpage while reading is pretty much the same thing in dark mode.

 

[Metrosey]

A review from a long time IPS screen user and a general obsessive person:

Believe it or not, I've read the entire thread, mainly because I was both bored and curious, and even though I was going to buy an 16 inch almost a month ago, at that time, this issue made me give up on the idea (I was also afraid of getting the T2 chip issues) - Time will tell whether I made the logical choice, if Apple hints better monitors with Intel Macbook Pro's in WWDC etc. - I will feel sorrow. Anyway, here comes my analysis:

First of all, I feel the pain of those who notice and can not unsee the ghosting, I remember experiencing the same phenomenon when I first got my Dell IPS P2415Q - the scrolling experience was just so unexpected - later on, while developing my game, I also noticed tearing, assumably because Mac's don't have Freesync (I tested other monitors too, multiple system with the same monitor, including high-end GPU's) - I was devastated by the fact that you can't buy a regular 60Hz IPS monitor for a Macbook, and not experience these issues - but over the years, I accepted this fact (There are monitors like Asus PG27UQ etc. that exceed 60hz with IPS, they might've solved my problem) - TL;DR: I was addicted to IPS quality, but the IPS issues haunted me, I couldn't accept them, kept seeking something better, only to never find it

After testing the 16" Macbook, I can confidently say it's a better Retina IPS monitor than my 2017 Touchbar one with Radeon 560 - When I first got the 2017 too, since I was used to a non-sync 60hz external IPS, a synced 60hz internal IPS was superior - I never noticed any issues

Yes, the ghosting is there, but it's an IPS monitor issue, and if I'm being honest, as someone who's obsessed on a pixel level, and as someone having his own monitor quality testing tools (for my own usage, see: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/does-pro-display-xdr-have-synced-frame-rates.2240459/) - I'll say that this is really not an issue

It's more a fact/property: IPS monitors have inherent properties, there's trailing, there are corner glows, high performance ones are rare and super expensive, and I'm sure even they have their issues

But I'll repeat again, I do wish we could have it all, but I accepted the fact that for a long long while, I'll just suffer the occasional visual torture (my external IPS has tearing) - so for me, using the internal screen that people complain about is even a better experience than using external ones, if Apple produces an anti-glare version, I would even ditch using an external screen and just do everything looking at the device

I'll also say that I just don't like Apple, even hate Apple's rotten guts, but is there a better alternative for me? No. I'm locked in

I have to be honest, the high-end monitor 'gaming' market is full of bad QC.

 

[XNorth]

Scrolling on a webpage while reading is pretty much the same thing in dark mode.

Scrolling SLOWLY while reading is not a problem. Don't think anyone can or want to try to read a webpage while flipping it or dragging it quickly.

 

[XNorth]

I think you guys are just justifying Apple Marketing Dept.s practices,

Apple marketing is irrelevant. People respond to the "ghosting" issue subjectively. Some people are annoyed by it or affected by motion sickness when they move windows or scroll rapidly. Personally, I don't ever have the practical need to drag images around on the desktop that fast. And any perceived "bad" motion doesn't bother me. Under normal use the Retina display overall performs better than most PCs for my use, IMO.

 

[Alex W.]

Scrolling SLOWLY while reading is not a problem. Don't think anyone can or want to try to read a webpage while flipping it or dragging it quickly.

When my iPad 7th gen, and all my old macbook screens don't have ghosting nearly as bad as the 16, it's obviously a downgrade when it's leaving a quarter inch trail when scrolling.

It isn't subjective, you can reference past products and even recent products to see.

I don't think there's any point defending barely acceptable screens on 3000 dollar computers.

Nothing subjective at all, just means the unit has pro work cases where the screen can't be used, and an external has to be used at the expense of loud fan noise while doing so.

I love everything about the unit besides the silly fan with external monitors and the screen ghosting. But I think it's important we encourage people to voice their concerns to help potentially improve this, as I'm certain apple views these forums.

 

[XNorth]

When my iPad 7th gen, and all my old macbook screens don't have ghosting nearly as bad as the 16, it's obviously a downgrade when it's leaving a quarter inch trail when scrolling.

It isn't subjective, you can reference past products and even recent products to see.

No one - not me - saying there is no ghosting or it‘s better. Whether it bothers you is subjective. And it’s not a flaw. It’s purposely designed that way, a compromise Apple made. Is it worth $3K? It’s subjective.

 

[Alex W.]

No one - not me - saying there is no ghosting or it‘s better. Whether it bothers you is subjective. And it’s not a flaw. It’s purposely designed that way, a compromise Apple made. Is it worth $3K? It’s subjective.

it isn't a flaw, its a design downgrade and deficiency from standards put in place previously for mobile products.
Sorry, I'm a believer that as time goes on technology gets better, not taking steps back.

Im certain apple did choose this screen for a cost to performance ratio for profitability "Good enough" approach.
Not good enough, my 2017 13" has a better screen.

 

[triangletechie]

If I don't notice ghosting on my 2020 13" MBP, does this mean I won't on the 16"?

 

[duffyanneal]

If I don't notice ghosting on my 2020 13" MBP, does this mean I won't on the 16"?

I don’t notice ghosting on my 2020 13” MBP, but it was readily noticeable on my 16” MBP. I usually notice it when scrolling text or dragging windows. It isn’t that big of a deal to me and wasn’t the reason why I gave up on the 16” MBP.

 

[kaans]

Out of curiosity, how's the panels of 5600M machines?

 

[Alex W.]

Identical

 

[DeadeyeM]

Yep i have MBP 16 5600 and comparison to my Late 2013 MBP the ghosting is worse on the new machine. Even scrolling MacRumors forum in dark mode my eyes get tired really fast. Also noticed when scrolling the white text changes color slightly to light blue.

 

[riptidewahoo]

I have a 2020 13" (10th gen) and the ghosting is nonexistent compared to my 2019 16"

 

[DeadeyeM]

I have a 2020 13" (10th gen) and the ghosting is nonexistent compared to my 2019 16"

Not sure if i can agree looking at the notebook check it's only minor difference

🔎 macbook pro 13 10th gen display responce - Google Search

www.google.com

Apple MacBook Pro 16 2019 Laptop Review: A convincing Core i9-9880H and Radeon Pro 5500M powered multimedia laptop

Notebookcheck.com reviews the flagship model of the MacBook Pro 16, Apple's latest multimedia laptop. The machine comes with an AMD Radeon Pro 5500M GPU and an Intel Core i9-9880H CPU, along with 16 GB of DDR4-2666 RAM and a 1 TB SSD. Read on to find out why have awarded the MacBook Pro 16 top...

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[jabbr]

Ya, I’ve wondered if those 6-7 extra milliseconds are that noticeable. I Find the smearing on my 2017 13” acceptable...

 

[kaans]

This thread ultimately brought back my IPS-sensitivity back, it took years to ignore it, now it's back - whether it's on the internal IPS, or the external IPS, I'm now hyper sensitive to any motion issues, sometimes the 24fps in movies/tv shows etc. result in noticeable unsmooth animations when they have moving things, especially those trigger me so much - they are probably because of the low fps, but each time, I'm like, "wtf did I get IPS ghosted again?"

Let's hope the next generation has better displays, but this time, there'll be localized backlighting, and those might trigger some people too

I mean the issue is there, but it's probably more about getting fixated to something, for example the touch bar pwm was super noticeable when I got it, I couldn't even look at it, but after using the device, I never saw it again

I wish notebookcheck was reviewing displays too, I wonder how an average IPS display is faring compared to these Macbook IPS's, it seems to me that their testing rig is very unforgiving

 

[DeadeyeM]

I just hope that next gen won't have coil whine

 

[emraha06]

Is there any complaint about ghosting/smearing for 2020 dell 9500 and 9700?