16gb MBP in 2021 isn’t enough for long-term

[ian87w]

Imo 16GB is minimum, considering it’s a combined pool for the GPU as well, and the price point Apple is charging. And there’s the SSD swap vs longevity as well, considering everything is soldered down and non user replaceable.

Pros dealing with heavy RAM workflow will know they need 32GB or more RAM.

My concern is actually not necessarily my own RAM usage, but Apple’s own sloppiness in software optimization (eg the heavy SSD swap usage).

 

[Sanpete]

Same here. I got 16” with 16GB on the 26th. Returned on 27th am ordered with 32GB.

I reached red RAM-Stress indication with Final Cut and Designer working “light pro jobs”.

How did you do that, and how did it affect performance?

 

[Zdigital2015]

Great points.

Looking at the activity monitor from a previous poster, it would seem it fits this rule of thumb given the swap space was over 11GB. Though, as you said, with the improved SSD and bus speeds, the cost to benefit ratio does not favor spending the few extra hundred on the memory upgrade.

If one plans on keeping this machine for an extremely long time (basically until it dies), one thing I do wonder about is how badly the paging affects the wear and tear of the non-user upgradable SSD, especially for a power user. I remember reading a while back about some M1 machines writing insane amounts of data to the SSD, but I did not keep up to date with it so do not know what came of it. Or even what kind of an effect all that paging has on the battery life.

It was a bug in Big Sur that was fixed in 11-4, I believe.

 

[AxiomaticRubric]

I went to Apple store yesterday to see the 14/16” MacbookPro and do some testing. With a few basic apps open, 2 safari tabs it was using 10.5gb/16gb. Restarted the Mac and repeated the sam ram usage after 10-15 minutes.

If you keep your mac only a few years it’s ok but if you are planning to keep your mac for 5 years you should absolutely upgrade to 32gb.

This is an easy assumption to make. New Macs often seem to be using excessive amounts of memory thanks to Spotlight file indexing. When this process is complete, memory usage should go back to normal.

 

[hans1972]

I went to Apple store yesterday to see the 14/16” MacbookPro and do some testing. With a few basic apps open, 2 safari tabs it was using 10.5gb/16gb. Restarted the Mac and repeated the sam ram usage after 10-15 minutes.

If you keep your mac only a few years it’s ok but if you are planning to keep your mac for 5 years you should absolutely upgrade to 32gb.

It's not how you test RAM requirements. macOS is trying its best to use all of the RAM as soon as possible. I would argue it didn't to a perfect job because there was still 5.5 Gb of free memory.

What was the memory pressure?

 

[hans1972]

I do fully understand this as I work in IT. I just forgot the average reader here isn’t a complete beginner and it’s sunday morning so I didn’t took the time of justifying my answer like the case i’m handling all week.

Working in IT is almost a disqualification.

You don't test how much memory you need on macOS by checking how much free RAM there is. You should come up with a better test.

No one is denying that more memory is almost always better. The question is more is it worth paying what Apple is charging for an extra 32Gb? For a lot of users, the answer is no.

 

[hans1972]

If there is not enough ram it has to swap. Max. 7 gbyte/s isn't fast compared with 200-400 gbyte/s ram. Even my windows desktop with pcie 4.0 ssd has 5 gbyte/s peak. But it's only the speed for huge files. For smallers you will get only a few hundred mbyte/s up to 2 gbyte/s.

macOS doesn't swap like Windows especially on M1 SoCs.

It uses a technique which reduces the need for disk bandwidth in a lot of situations.

 

[hans1972]

For those of y'all saying 8GB is enough, why are y'all on a Macbook PRO forum if you think 8GB is enough? You are already going to spend a minimum $2K and will have min 16GB.

Seriously, the people arguing AGAINST 32GB are as bad as the ones arguing FOR 32GB.

No one would be arguing against 32Gb of RAM if the cost was $0.

A lot of people will see almost no perceptible performance gain or so little gain it won't be worth paying hundreds of dollars for it.

 

[Shirasaki]

While 16GB is a tough sell for most general users, I do agree for serious users running more than just safari with 3 tabs and music app should consider 32GB of RAM. Yes, Mac is supposed to be managing ram pretty well, but that doesn’t mean you should not consider a bit of longevity. My windows PC has 16GB of ram and I am currently constantly sitting at 13GB and startup ram is 5GB. Doable but not really enough.
M1 is also plenty powerful for today or even future tasks I’d argue. Plus, even if the future device is more powerful, what if you can’t get the new one due to financial reason, systematic lack of stock or other reasons? Might as well invest a bit and use the device for long period.

 

[BigMac?]

This is an easy assumption to make. New Macs often seem to be using excessive amounts of memory thanks to Spotlight file indexing. When this process is complete, memory usage should go back to normal.

Nope, I could rule this out.

Def. RAM-usage for user initiated and background tasks (OneDrive etc…)

 

[BigMac?]

No one would be arguing against 32Gb of RAM if the cost was $0.

A lot of people will see almost no perceptible performance gain or so little gain it won't be worth paying hundreds of dollars for it.

That’s mostly the case where the Mac per es doesn’t earn your money.

 

[Bug-Creator]

Having a truckload of RAM makes sense if your running a database just below that size with several clients accessing it at random (hence no pager can make a good guess at what really needs to in RAM).

On the other end you have "streaming" apps like video, audio or image editing where that guess should be easy and any use of RAM outside of code and a reasonable buffer per active core points to sloppy programming.

Most stuff is inbetween those 2 extreme but I'm sure their are edge case were you could 100% stress out an M1nix/Pro/Max without even getting near to using 16GB.

 

[HardBall]

I went to Apple store yesterday to see the 14/16” MacbookPro and do some testing. With a few basic apps open, 2 safari tabs it was using 10.5gb/16gb. Restarted the Mac and repeated the sam ram usage after 10-15 minutes.

If you keep your mac only a few years it’s ok but if you are planning to keep your mac for 5 years you should absolutely upgrade to 32gb.

There isn't an accurate way just in system mon to measure mem pressure in real workflows. The only good way that works with your every day needs is to try it through a regular day of work of yours, to see what config you can get away with comfortably (of course discounting the disk cache amount). On top of that, maybe put in an extra factor of 2* if you plan on keeping it around for 3+ years.

 

[azentropy]

Future proofing rarely works out in these cases. The ROI just isn’t there unless you need it now. Sure 32GB might work better in 5 years than 16GB but are you really going to care? At that time the new machines are going to be better in every way imaginable Including coming with more standard RAM and storage than they do now. Take the $400 and invest it instead. If you invested $400 in AAPL 5 years ago it would be worth $2100 today!

 

[BigMac?]

There isn't an accurate way just in system mon to measure mem pressure in real workflows. The only good way that works with your every day needs is to try it through a regular day of work of yours, to see what config you can get away with comfortably (of course discounting the disk cache amount). On top of that, maybe put in an extra factor of 2* if you plan on keeping it around for 3+ years.

Yeah!

 

[collin_]

The average user doesn't need 32GB of RAM. Most do well with 8GB of RAM.

MacOS is excellent with RAM usage. Even though the OS may show 7GB used out of 8GB, that doesn't necessarily mean 7GB is actually being used. What you should focus on is what the memory pressure is showing.

And even more excellent now that they control the silicon

 

[wilberforce]

After seeing the video I kind of regret getting 16" 32gb RAM with 512 gb. Seems like I have should have gone for the 16gb and 1TB instead.. The main reason why was I didnt know the SSD meant that much. and I barely use the space on my 512 mbp 2017 now.

Return it and get what you want. Having no regrets: that is the purpose of the 14 day return period

 

[zarathu]

And the argument goes on, despite the fact that Maxtech video answered the question on the first page. The dude there put every thing he could think of into the Mac and in the end they were neck and neck. No one would ever put that many operating programs on any computer at the same time.

It's so hard to believe but clearly it's true. It is good to remember that the speed of that SSD will drop dramatically if you fill it much beyond 75% due to the way that SSD’s store memory. So the 1 TB drive needs to be limited to 750GB.

 

[zarathu]

The problem is you can only buy the M1 Pro 16 gb version . And it's not 400 Euros more. Some sellers offering 32 gb for only 200 Euros more. If you pay 3000 Euros you have the 200 Euros also.

Well... now you know it not much a problem at all.

 

[wilberforce]

So I bought the base 14" M1 Pro, with the goal of stressing it out over the next week as much as possible, to see if I want to return it for a higher config. Apple's 14 day return period is great for this: you don't need to guess if you need an upgrade or not, for your own personal workflow. (If you buy a high-spec model at first, you will never know if you could have done just as well with a lower-spec model, and may have just donated extra cash to Apple for no purpose.)

So far I am seeing no reason to upgrade the processor or the memory. The only thing is I might get the 1TB SSD instead of the 512GB SSD. I really like the 14" size.

It kind of puzzles me why people undecided about configuration do not try the lower config first, given Apple's 14-day return period, rather than just dumping extra cash into the order. Sometimes a LOT of extra cash. Or, if you are too impatient to wait for a replacement, order two and return the one you least prefer.

 

[wilberforce]

And the argument goes on, despite the fact that Maxtech video answered the question on the first page. The dude there put every thing he could think of into the Mac and in the end they were neck and neck. No one would ever put that many operating programs on any computer at the same time.

It's so hard to believe but clearly it's true.

I agree, the MaxTech video is about a compelling a demonstration as possible, showing that +$400 for 32GB RAM is just not worth it.
If this is not convincing, nothing will be; you have already made up your mind, so there is no point in discussing it further. Apple thanks you for your donation.

 

[tis]

And the argument goes on, despite the fact that Maxtech video answered the question on the first page. The dude there put every thing he could think of into the Mac and in the end they were neck and neck. No one would ever put that many operating programs on any computer at the same time.

The same thing happened last year when Max Tech compared 8gb vs 16gb with the M1. They were neck and neck until you had 5 times more programs open than any normal person would at the same time, and then the 8gb stuttered a tad bit. Still today, people on this forum tell everyone with an Air they need 16gb. Then when someone questions it, they use the future proofing argument knowing full well every other aspect of the computer will be outdated by the time the RAM is going to save 1 minute of your day.

 

[pst23]

When last year everyone was saying get 16 gigs of ram. Shaking my head

 

[darkgremio]

RAM (Random Access Memory) the ram allocation is dictated by applications and and the OS. Ram usage is indicative of what you currently memory will be allocated in different ways especially when CPU utilization in increasing. ARM architecture is completely different than X86. Performance is dramatically more variable, thus make CPU, Memory utilization more dynamic. This is why many people complained that the amount of SSD output when the first M1 series MBP came out, ARM is better!

 

[njn007]

Lots of gatekeeping in the MR forums about RAM...