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No, not at all.
First of all if you are using DOS you are disconnected from todays risks at all. Itā€™s very unlikely that someone will write malware for dos. And the one that already exists is easily handled. You are completely isolated from any modern threats.
Second: simplicity. DOS is much simpler than windows 11 or MacOS. The simpler a system the smaller the targeting vector. You just canā€™t attack something that doesnā€™t exist. One of windows biggest problems have been printer drivers for a long time. Good luck in DOS. The attack surface is just so much smaller.
DOS is also much more reliable and stable than anything that exists nowadays. Even Linux.

How about linux without the internet connectivity built into it?
Now that you mentioned it, I never heard DOS crashing ever šŸ§

Yes. This is such a dumb arguing. As if all devs before 2019 died from starvation. Think about the whole gaming industry. Besides MMOS there are no subscription games. How do they update constantly, add features, patches, and maintain multiplayer servers without constant monthly cash flow? But nontheless those calendar and password manager devs want us to believe that subs are mandatory to run a successful business. Yea. Right.
Look at YNAB: they went to subs and raised it from 45$ per year to 108$ because they locked their users into their system. While Actual, a FOSS clone is free with optional server for syncing for 2$ per month if you donā€™t want to run your own server.

Exactly. Albeit I am not against the subscription model, as I believe in the free market, so I support the license ones. I am against first selling license then locking people into subscription. Thats why I am not upset with apps who were always subscription based.
 
Hi all,

Long time 1Password user here, with a family account.
I am (or I pretend to be) careful when it is down to security and generally speaking I have trusted 1Password approach so far, even when they forced me to move from a local vault in 1Password 7 to the subscription model and server-based vault with 1Password 8.
I have a Proton Unlimited account as well, so it is kind of natural to consider Proton Pass.
It was very green and lacking features when it was released, but it is catching up quickly now, with shared vaults, passkeys support and more.

Any opinion about Proton Pass?
 
You know, what's needed in the case of passwords is not a general secure clipboard. It's just a simple in-memory storage of a small text string. It might be trivial to write something as a service and assign hotkeys for copy and paste. Might need a bit of study to ensure memory is secure and being cleared after the paste. If someone writes the code themselves then they wouldn't be afraid to grant it screen reading and accessibility features.

I take it back. I need to be able to select the text or otherwise focus on the field in order for a program to know what to grab. 1Password doesn't allow this. It handles pushing text to the clipboard when you click on a field. I suspect this is a conscious decision to avoid certain exploits. I could work around it by editing the item, making the text selectable. That seems pretty awkward and probably dangerous.

BitWarden allows the text of its fields to be selected, but it only really works if the password is unhidden. That's not safe in public settings.

I give up.
 
How about linux without the internet connectivity built into it?
Now that you mentioned it, I never heard DOS crashing ever
Linux is already used worldwide on servers because of its security features. Linux is awesome. But itā€˜s not flawless and it could be targeted so all those critical systems like in nuclear plants are still running DOS.

Look at how dump companies are:

This is what I mean when I donā€™t trust them to keep my stuff safe and secure on a server vault.
 
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Hi all,

Long time 1Password user here, with a family account.
I am (or I pretend to be) careful when it is down to security and generally speaking I have trusted 1Password approach so far, even when they forced me to move from a local vault in 1Password 7 to the subscription model and server-based vault with 1Password 8.
I have a Proton Unlimited account as well, so it is kind of natural to consider Proton Pass.
It was very green and lacking features when it was released, but it is catching up quickly now, with shared vaults, passkeys support and more.

Any opinion about Proton Pass?

I tested it at first release and was very raw. I think it only had Username and Password fields. Bitwarden is much more capable but it is something to keep your eyes on. Proton has history of releasing simple apps and then highly improving on them.
 
I feel the same way. It never ends...

When I read

I assume that no malicious software is running on my device. I use copy-paste.

I see a person who will live a happy life, with odds so high that they'll never have an issue. Then I look at myself, a person whose main hobby is worrying. Maybe I need to take up meditation and jigger my priorities. :)
 
So, I was looking at that secure copy/paste project at https://github.com/s1ntoneli/Copi. It's from a possibly well-intentioned Chinese person, who might be under the thumb of a government who is actively hostile to my own. Here's what the project says:

1723645803295.png


If you are one of the people who believes open source makes it safe, could you give it a test and see if it works? You might have to unhide the password fields to get it to do the secure copy, but that has no risk if you're alone.

And:

Using FOSS is another good way to protect yourself because you can easily use ChatGPT to check the code for malicious parts yourself without any knowledge of programming.

How would I use ChatGPT to check the code for anything that might be harmful? What question would you ask that would give you the confidence to install the program on your computer? I have no idea how to do that.
 
So, I was looking at that secure copy/paste project at https://github.com/s1ntoneli/Copi. It's from a possibly well-intentioned Chinese person, who might be under the thumb of a government who is actively hostile to my own. Here's what the project says:

View attachment 2405959

If you are one of the people who believes open source makes it safe, could you give it a test and see if it works? You might have to unhide the password fields to get it to do the secure copy, but that has no risk if you're alone.

this should be built in the OS

And:



How would I use ChatGPT to check the code for anything that might be harmful? What question would you ask that would give you the confidence to install the program on your computer? I have no idea how to do that.

well I asked the AI itself and see if you can make anything of it. Phind.com

Code:
Using AI to check for malware or harmful code in an open-source 
project involves leveraging advanced AI technologies to analyze code patterns, 
behaviors, and known vulnerabilities. Here's a step-by-step approach based 
on the information provided:

Step 1: Understand the Limitations and Capabilities of AI Tools

    Limitations: AI tools like ChatGPT have shown promise in identifying
 malicious code but are not infallible. They can sometimes be tricked into
 classifying benign code as malicious if the code is subtly altered.
 Therefore, relying solely on AI for security checks is not advisable 2.
    Capabilities: AI tools can significantly aid in the identification of malicious
 code by analyzing code patterns and comparing them against known vulnerabilities. 
For instance, DroidGPT allows developers to ask natural language 
questions about code and receive instant ratings on its security 2.

Step 2: Utilize AI-Powered Security Tools

    Dynamic Detection and Behavioral Rules: Invest in tools that employ
 dynamic detections and behavioral rules to identify new threats. These tools
 can analyze program behaviors and connections in real-time, providing
 a proactive defense mechanism against evolving threats 5.
    Regular Updates and Training: Ensure that the AI models behind these 
tools are regularly updated and trained on the latest threats and vulnerabilities. 
This keeps the system effective against emerging risks 5.

Example Implementation

While specific code implementations for integrating AI into malware detection 
processes are proprietary and vary widely among companies, the general 
approach involves:

==
# Pseudocode for integrating AI-based malware detection
def detect_malware(code):
    # Load pre-trained AI model for malware detection
    model = load_model('malware_detection_model')
   
    # Preprocess the code to match input requirements of the model
    processed_code = preprocess_code(code)
   
    # Predict whether the code contains malware
    prediction = model.predict(processed_code)
   
    return prediction

==

This pseudocode outlines the basic steps involved in using an AI model to 
predict whether a given piece of code contains malware. The actual implementation 
would depend on the specific AI framework and model used, as well as the 
nature of the code being analyzed.
Summary

Integrating AI into the process of checking for malware or harmful code in 
open-source projects requires a combination of advanced AI tools, continuous 
monitoring, and human oversight. While AI can significantly enhance the 
efficiency and effectiveness of security checks, it is essential to recognize 
its limitations and ensure that human expertise plays a central role in the security review process.
 
this should be built in the OS

Yeah. I know that the Terminal program supports secure keyboard; that prevents the things you type into terminal sending key events outside of the Terminal application. I had hoped something similar existed for the clipboard.

well I asked the AI itself and see if you can make anything of it. Phind.com

I appreciate you taking the time. I'll take a look and see if it adds any value.
 
I tested it at first release and was very raw. I think it only had Username and Password fields. Bitwarden is much more capable but it is something to keep your eyes on. Proton has history of releasing simple apps and then highly improving on them.

Same for me, when I tested it straight after release it was really too ā€œgreenā€.
I have tested it again this week and it starts having almost everything I use:
- logins
- credit cards
- embedded 2FA
- shared vaults
- passkeys
- custom fields
- alias email addresses

And it is open source.

One of my strongest initial concerns was that it was unlocked just with the proton account credentials. They have now added an extra layer of security via an optional, additional password specific to proton pass db.

It is missing some non-fundamental goodies, like a dedicated entry for passports (but there is an identity one, where you can store passport details), bank accounts and similar. Notes are an obvious workaround for them.
The worst thing I have found so far, but again it is not a real showstopper, is that it is not possible to attach files or images. I do it in 1Password for the passport, for example. I could use proton drive instead, but having images embedded in Proton Pass, sharing them just sharing the vault, would be nice.
I think Iā€™ll give it a go, migrating everything from 1Password to Proton Pass and trying to use it for a while.
 
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Same for me, when I tested it straight after release it was really too ā€œgreenā€.
I have tested it again this week and it starts having almost everything I use:
- logins
- credit cards
- embedded 2FA
- shared vaults
- passkeys
- custom fields
- alias email addresses

And it is open source.

One of my strongest initial concerns was that it was unlocked just with the proton account credentials. They have now added an extra layer of security via an optional, additional password specific to proton pass db.

It is missing some non-fundamental goodies, like a dedicated entry for passports (but there is an identity one, where you can store passport details), bank accounts and similar. Notes are an obvious workaround for them.
The worst thing I have found so far, but again it is not a real showstopper, is that it is not possible to attach files or images. I do it in 1Password for the passport, for example. I could use proton drive instead, but having images embedded in Proton Pass, sharing them just sharing the vault, would be nice.
I think Iā€™ll give it a go, migrating everything from 1Password to Proton Pass and trying to use it for a while.

they are very responsive to customer input so any features people looking for are probably going to be implemented in the future. My problem with Proton is its becoming too big and I would rather support competition just to keep competition alive and options for the users.
 
My problem with Proton is its becoming too big and I would rather support competition just to keep competition alive and options for the users.

Donā€™t know if they are too big. They are growing, for sure, which is a good sign to me, as more people care about their on line privacy.
Proton has been founded with some principles in mind and they have just turned into a foundation to preserve these values: https://proton.me/blog/proton-non-profit-foundation

On the other hand, it is not wise to keep all your eggs in the same basketā€¦

Itā€™s never easy!
 
I did take it that way.

I really don't know how to evaluate the safety of Codebook's autofill and its use of AppleScript to transmit data from the Codebook application to another application. The fact that AgileBits didn't do it, even though it easily works, gives me pause. I know nothing about the environment that the AppleScript runs in and what doors have to be open to allow it access to secure data. I wonder if the AppleScript runs inside the Codebook process or has to communicate with it from outside. I would love to see a security audit of their product.
I posted a couple of questions about Codebookā€™s Secret Agent and autofill over on Zeteticā€™s discussion forum: https://discuss.zetetic.net/t/security-of-using-secret-agent-vs-the-clipboard/6581
 
I posted a couple of questions about Codebookā€™s Secret Agent and autofill over on Zeteticā€™s discussion forum: https://discuss.zetetic.net/t/security-of-using-secret-agent-vs-the-clipboard/6581

Thanks for that. I did take a look at the responses, but didn't come away with an understanding about the risks of using AppleScript for transferring credentials. I did see that they consider Secret Agent to be just as secure as macOS Password AutoFill. Since autofill is designed explicitly for high-risk activities and AppleScript is a general purpose automation framework, I'm surprised they have that opinion.
 
Thanks for that. I did take a look at the responses, but didn't come away with an understanding about the risks of using AppleScript for transferring credentials. I did see that they consider Secret Agent to be just as secure as macOS Password AutoFill. Since autofill is designed explicitly for high-risk activities and AppleScript is a general purpose automation framework, I'm surprised they have that opinion.
I donā€™t understand the risks of using AppleScript either, but I got to believe it is safer than using the clipboard. And Iā€™ll continue to use macOS Password AutoFill instead of Secret Agent when possible.
 
I am posting links to recent Macworld stories on password managers, for those who are unaware of the articles but might be interested:


 
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If they had 5 million customers like me their total storage would be about 5 TB HDD lets assume it costs $200 . Multiply that by 4 (1 main + 3 backups) the storage cost will be around $1000-1500

Disk costs are likely only a small part of storage costs. You have:

1. The cost of the land and buildings to house all of those 284,386 drives.
2. The electric and cooling costs for the buildings
3. The costs of building the custom storage pods
4. The cost of the OS drives that manage the pods
5. The personnel costs for maintaining the building, AC, replacing failed drives, etc.
6. The development costs of writing and maintaining the backup software
7. The costs of their excellent customer support
8. General management costs

I'm sure there are other costs which I've omitted.
 
I am posting links to recent Macworld stories on password managers, for those who are unaware of the articles but might be interested:


The fact that that first article recommended LastPass, as well as regurgitating the same usual suspects, tells me that the author didnā€™t do hardly any meaningful research.
 
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The fact that that first article recommended LastPass, as well as regurgitating the same usual suspects, tells me that the author didnā€™t do hardly any meaningful research.

The article didn't come out strongly against LastPass, but seemed to me that they were implying it should be avoided.

LastPass is probably one of the best-known password manager, thanks to it being one of the original pioneers in the field, however, in recent years itā€™s lost its crown after being hit with several hacks, including at least one that stole encrypted customer data. This recent history makes it harder to recommend.
 
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Disk costs are likely only a small part of storage costs. You have:

1. The cost of the land and buildings to house all of those 284,386 drives.
2. The electric and cooling costs for the buildings
3. The costs of building the custom storage pods
4. The cost of the OS drives that manage the pods
5. The personnel costs for maintaining the building, AC, replacing failed drives, etc.
6. The development costs of writing and maintaining the backup software
7. The costs of their excellent customer support
8. General management costs

I'm sure there are other costs which I've omitted.
Sorry, but no. Most companies don't host themselves. They use AWS or anything similar. 1Password was using AWS in the past for its cloud as much as I know. So they simply pay a monthly fee. Let's assume it's those 20 TB per month with backup, it's 440$ per month of cost. No cooling cost or anything else.

Let's be very generous and let's say it's double that: 880$ per Month. You get it. You could even quadruple it. It's ridiculous and doesn't justify subs. Bitwarden does the same. With 10$ a year per user.
 
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Bitwarden shows its $10 a year with its lack of functionality and support, if it offered the same as 1password we would all be using it.
The number of users shows people are willing to pay the price, my new Bitwarden account at $10 sits unused because I found it lacked functionality.
 
I am posting links to recent Macworld stories on password managers, for those who are unaware of the articles but might be interested:


I posted the first article partly because I thought folks here would be amused by the treatment of LastPass. Sadly, the ā€œlazy writingā€ label that Apple_Robert used, applies to almost all the password manager recommendation articles I have read.
 
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