1Password migrants thread

[MacBH928]

I use Vaultwarden instead of the "officeal" self hosting solution only because it is lightweight and much easier to setup. Otherwise I would have chosen the "official" images.

That said, Vaultwarden provides everything I need und works in my testing installation without any problems.

What do you mean "lightweight" ? I am using Bitwarden not noticing slow downs except with official app (electron) and the browser extension.

I think vaultwarden is made to avoid the fees to host your own vault (i think). As for mere mortals like me, i have no time, know how, or money to setup my own server and be responsible for the backup. I would rather get the FOSS and enterprise managed service for .... FREE!

If you are extra paranoid or have high security risk maybe you go through the vaulwarden code and do your own hosting.

Here are some snippets from the @maflynn link that makes me not risk setting up vault warden:-

While RUST is very good for being memory safe from what I understand, an inexperienced coder could still inadvertently introduce a security flaw into Vaultwarden. While the code is open-source, things like code audits by a professional company costs $$$ lots of money and so Vaultwarden has not had such any type of extensive audit of their code and the security.
Bitwarden also commits to ongoing security audits and assessments, and participates in a bug bounty program via Hacker one.

While I do not think that the Bitwarden team would do anything to intentionally hinder Vaultwarden the fact remains that it is still an unofficial 3rd party software that is built on an entirely different code base and has been made to be a compatible backend server.

Vaultwarden in and of itself also does not provide for HTTPS and typically is set up with some type of reverse proxy solution to terminate the client connection and pass that traffic to the unencrypted Vaultwarden container.
This means that without the proper set up someone sitting in between and listening “on the wire” so to speak may be able to capture plain-text login details etc.
If you opened this up to the public facing internet to possibly be easily accessible by your family too, this could spell a number of issues.

 

[it wasnt me]

If you are extra paranoid or have high security risk

What is your reason to use a password manager, if not a high security risk?

 

[Alwis]

What do you mean "lightweight" ? I am using Bitwarden not noticing slow downs except with official app (electron) and the browser extension.

The official self hosting installation requires several docker containers, Vaultwarden only one.

Not wanting to store my passwords on servers not under my control is the only reason I will switch away from 1PW the moment I can not use my 1PW 7 perpetual license on newer OS versions any longer. I do not like subscription, but that alone would not make me switch.

Setting up https is well documented on the vaultwarden web site and no problem atall, if you haver ever done some server configuration. If not, you should probably not maintain your own server. In this case I would use Keepass/KeepassXC

Every software has security flaws, 1PW will and for sure Vaultwarden will. Butin this case, this does not really matter. First the data does not leave my own network, I will never expose the server to the internet, second it is encrypted before transmitted to the server, with an additional layer of encryption provided by https.

 

[dogface1956]

I hope! Because I do not support unethical business behaviour but we just have to see how the people will respond in a year or 2. Do they find it still worthy to keep subscribing or new alternatives and current ones could improve so much that they no longer need 1PW? Plus 1PW has an enterprise side to them, so those businesses keep paying. There could be an unexpected reaction and other password managers also move to cloud storage+subscription model and we will then be out of luck and 1PW won't be any worse than the others, so pick your poison.

They could remain as a hated company like FB or Comcast I think, but they could also destroy themselves like Blockbuster, Yahoo, MySpace...



Which password manager did you settle on?

I don't understand what is unethical about their business behaviour, they switched to a subscription model, but that is not unethical, I was not happy about the change to subscription, too many publishers are moving to the subscription model, I hate it, but if I like their software I have two choices either pay the subscription or find other software. In the case of Adobe I changed my software to Affinity's products and have not looked back, in the case of 1Password, I looked at the options and decided that 1Password worked best for me so I paid the subscription.

If having the vault data stored on their cloud unethical, if they hid the fact that they were storing the data on their cloud that would be unethical, but they have been upfront with what they are doing, am I concerned that they are storing my data on their cloud, not really, I choose to believe them when they say my data is encrypted and the only person with the key to unlock it is me. If in the future they give me a reason not to believe them, then I will explore other solutions.

It is easy to throw around that a company is unethical, but I sure would like to see some proof of that, saying that they have "x" of employees to pay is little different when I go in to ask for a raise and tell my boss I just had another baby and have so many mouths to feed so I need more money. I understand that a company usually has to pay their employees for work performed, now if they are using slave or child labor that would be a different story, but I have no proof of that or have I heard from any reliable source (or any source for that matter) that Agile Bits is using slave or child labor when creating and updating their product.

So I think you need to be very careful when you throw out that a company has unethical business behaviour.

 

[Mr. Heckles]

I hope! Because I do not support unethical business behaviour but we just have to see how the people will respond in a year or 2.

Again, chiming in. To hope a company dies and goes out of business is horrible to say. All of these people who will be without job, customers who have to move to a new password manager, and more. This is down right bull…..to say just because you don’t agree how they run their business? Are they costing you money? No. Wow... class act here.

 

[MacBH928]

What is your reason to use a password manager, if not a high security risk?

Of course more security is better but there is levels of security. For example, one might be comfortable to have his business files on iCloud but if he works for the CIA not so. Bitwarden security level is enough for me. If I had something that needs even more security like government files I will probably not trust the free Bitwarden plan.

The official self hosting installation requires several docker containers, Vaultwarden only one.

Not wanting to store my passwords on servers not under my control is the only reason I will switch away from 1PW the moment I can not use my 1PW 7 perpetual license on newer OS versions any longer. I do not like subscription, but that alone would not make me switch.

Setting up https is well documented on the vaultwarden web site and no problem atall, if you haver ever done some server configuration. If not, you should probably not maintain your own server. In this case I would use Keepass/KeepassXC

Every software has security flaws, 1PW will and for sure Vaultwarden will. Butin this case, this does not really matter. First the data does not leave my own network, I will never expose the server to the internet, second it is encrypted before transmitted to the server, with an additional layer of encryption provided by https.

You are correct but most people do not know have the know how to setup HTTPS or run a docker. I don't. Most people do not know how to troubleshoot a printer issue.

Again, chiming in. Are they costing you money? No. Wow... class act here.

They are costing me the years of trust I gave to them, promote them, and pay for them because I thought they will not enforce renting their app and enforce using their cloud service. Even when they hid the option in dark pattern design I was ok. They are also costing me other developers who if they see SAAS working, they too will turn into rent-a-software business. I am here to voice my opinion to be against this method of doing business and I am free to do so. You are also free to say "I would like all software to be monthly rental".

To hope a company dies and goes out of business is horrible to say. All of these people who will be without job, customers who have to move to a new password manager, and more. This is down right bull…..to say just because you don’t agree how they run their business?

Here to answer your question. Some companies the world is better off without. They all have employees and customers.:-

HSBC fined $85 mln for anti-money laundering failings - (Money laundering as in killing, drugs, and bribes)
Nestle - Nestle
Facebook - no comment needed
Philip Morris International

 

[MacBH928]

I don't understand what is unethical about their business behaviour, they switched to a subscription model, but that is not unethical, I was not happy about the change to subscription, too many publishers are moving to the subscription model, I hate it, but if I like their software I have two choices either pay the subscription or find other software. In the case of Adobe I changed my software to Affinity's products and have not looked back, in the case of 1Password, I looked at the options and decided that 1Password worked best for me so I paid the subscription.

If having the vault data stored on their cloud unethical, if they hid the fact that they were storing the data on their cloud that would be unethical, but they have been upfront with what they are doing, am I concerned that they are storing my data on their cloud, not really, I choose to believe them when they say my data is encrypted and the only person with the key to unlock it is me. If in the future they give me a reason not to believe them, then I will explore other solutions.

It is easy to throw around that a company is unethical, but I sure would like to see some proof of that, saying that they have "x" of employees to pay is little different when I go in to ask for a raise and tell my boss I just had another baby and have so many mouths to feed so I need more money. I understand that a company usually has to pay their employees for work performed, now if they are using slave or child labor that would be a different story, but I have no proof of that or have I heard from any reliable source (or any source for that matter) that Agile Bits is using slave or child labor when creating and updating their product.

So I think you need to be very careful when you throw out that a company has unethical business behaviour.

Please see attached image above.

Saying Agilebits its unethical is because the way they switched from license to subscription. At first they said we offer both which was Okay. Slowly they started to withdraw the option for licensed option to enforce their subscription option as their only option available. Finally they totally killed the standard license and force people who choose to store on their device to store in their cloud.

Do you see the problem? They drew out the option from their customers on purpose. Why? because its more profitable to them. Its pure greed. They say that license model does not cover costs? Guess what. Agilebits has been around since 2006 and grew and thrived under the license model they were even Mac only AFAIK. When 2016 came along , its not enough to pay the bills? please, there is one guy who writes a multi-platform password manager and sells it for $5. For Agilbe bits $40-80 , not even $100 is enough. Enpass gives you the option of the $2/M subscription or $80 one-time license.

Agilebits collected $620 MILLION from investors. Do you know what those investors want? Double and triple that investment. How? by milking their customers. If they say their subscription option is superior in usability, why not let the customer choose?

I had no problem if Agilebits wanted to grow and offered more software or service or even a subscription option . They could have released an iOS competitor with that $620M , a Microsoft Office competitor, Secure email service , a YouTube alternative, CRM, Accounting software...but noooo . They want to milk the current user base and I refuse to be the cow to be milked.

When Apple wanted to grow, they released a phone, a tablet, a smart watch, AppleTV, iTunes store. Microsoft didn't raise Windows license but released Xbox console and created Microsoft Azure. Amazon created AWS.

You can choose 1password and pay the subscription if you like, but I too am free to voice my opinion and not support SAAS and buy licensed software and promote them.

 

[Apple_Robert]

What do you mean "lightweight" ? I am using Bitwarden not noticing slow downs except with official app (electron) and the browser extension.

I think vaultwarden is made to avoid the fees to host your own vault (i think). As for mere mortals like me, i have no time, know how, or money to setup my own server and be responsible for the backup. I would rather get the FOSS and enterprise managed service for .... FREE!

If you are extra paranoid or have high security risk maybe you go through the vaulwarden code and do your own hosting.

Here are some snippets from the @maflynn link that makes me not risk setting up vault warden:-

Bitwarden self-hosting is free unless it is for more than 1 user sharing. Otherwise, it is $10 a year which is very reasonable to me if one wishes to take the risk. In my opinion, syncing devices over home WiFi is the safer option, especially for those who aren't MR nerd regs.

 

[Mr. Heckles]

They are costing me the years of trust I gave to them, promote them, and pay for them because I thought they will not enforce renting their app and enforce using their cloud service. Even when they hid the option in dark pattern design I was ok. They are also costing me other developers who if they see SAAS working, they too will turn into rent-a-software business. I am here to voice my opinion to be against this method of doing business and I am free to do so. You are also free to say "I would like all software to be monthly rental".



Here to answer your question. Some companies the world is better off without. They all have employees and customers.:-

HSBC fined $85 mln for anti-money laundering failings - (Money laundering as in killing, drugs, and bribes)
Nestle - Nestle
Facebook - no comment needed
Philip Morris International

They changed their mind, what company doesn't do this? They are NOT csosting you money anymore.... my point. The fact YOU moved to a different password manager are are so full of hate for 1Password isn't healthy. Yes, you have an opinion, you're entitled to it, but this is down right hate.

1Password 7 still works, and doesn't need a subscription. If you have it, did they take it away? No. Did it stop working? No. Will it keep working? until updates from other software won't let it work 100% like it was new. There are people who still use older versions of 1Password... and it works. If you want to get technical, they didn't change their minds... the software you bought from them that you "own" still works, doesn't it? So, Ben didn't lie in that post, and quote from that post:

Major upgrades for the licensed standalone products will typically have a price associated with them (e.x. going from v6 -> v7), but in-version updates are included.

Updates are included until a major update (1Password 1-7).

Comparing 1Password to those 4 companies is not even close, and did you just compare 1Password to a company that was killing people?? Really? Wow . This is down right wrong and uncalled for, and more horrible to say than wishing a company to go out of business.

As for Facebook, I don't even wish they go out of business.. again they employee a lot of people. People also rely on them to communicate with family around the world. I do with they would become a stand up company.

FYI... you don't ever own software, you rent all of it. A company can terminate your license, and your app will stop working. There is a program people can buy to tune vehicles, and a friend did this for his Tacoma. If you go on Tacomaworld, this is a big thing also. One guy was trying to reverse engineer the program for himself, so he can sell it himself. Doing this, his license got terminated and the program no longer worked. He paid for it, it was his, and it's gone. He paid for the program, so wasn't it his? This story is on Tacomaworld also, so feel free to search it.

These days you don't even own your vehicle. There are many other car makers are saying This.

 

[it wasnt me]

FYI... you don't ever own software, you rent all of it.

I own quite a variety of software.

 

[Mr. Heckles]

I own quite a variety of software.

You own a license of it to use it. Unless you made it yourself.

Is Software Ownership the Same as Licensing? | Webopedia

If you purchased software, what is the license agreement for? Do you own the software because you paid for it?

www.webopedia.com

Simply put, no. Though you may have paid for the software, what you have actually done is licensed the application, essentially paying for the rights to use the software according to guidelines determined by the owner.

 

[it wasnt me]

I made it myself. That said, in some jurisdictions, including the US, Public Domain exists - PD-licensed software is legally owned by just everyone.

 

[maflynn]

Saying Agilebits its unethical is because the way they switched from license to subscription. At first they said we offer both which was Okay. Slowly they started to withdraw the option for licensed option to enforce their subscription option as their only option available. Finally they totally killed the standard license and force people who choose to store on their device to store in their cloud.

Do you see the problem?

You may have an issue with that, but its not unethical. I think everyone in the world saw the writing on the wall with with 1PAssword's perpetual licenses. There was going to be a time where its not an option.

You may not like the move, and that's fine, but they're fully in their right to change the licensing terms for future versions, just as you're free to find a competitor.

 

[rmadsen3]

You may have an issue with that, but its not unethical. I think everyone in the world saw the writing on the wall with with 1PAssword's perpetual licenses. There was going to be a time where its not an option.

You may not like the move, and that's fine, but they're fully in their right to change the licensing terms for future versions, just as you're free to find a competitor.

Agilebits supersketchy by hiding the 'buy once' option and then saying 'we see demand for subscriptions, we consider this to be our marching orders'. Also it's pretty weird to change pricing scheme for a version that's been released already -- version seven used to be buyable but now it's not. Plus there's the whole patronizing vibe of their social-media people. Oh also the 'talk about Rust backend in response to criticisms about Electron frontend' thing.

For years now Agilebits's conduct has been both hostile and sketchy.

 

[maflynn]

Agilebits supersketchy by hiding the 'buy once' option

Yes, I'll not disagree with you on that. If you knew about it, google would help you locate the url, even contacting support, they provided the url, but for the unsuspecting consumer - they'd don't know about the option. Yes that's no Bueno

 

[MacBH928]

Agilebits supersketchy by hiding the 'buy once' option and then saying 'we see demand for subscriptions, we consider this to be our marching orders'. Also it's pretty weird to change pricing scheme for a version that's been released already -- version seven used to be buyable but now it's not. Plus there's the whole patronizing vibe of their social-media people. Oh also the 'talk about Rust backend in response to criticisms about Electron frontend' thing.

For years now Agilebits's conduct has been both hostile and sketchy.

Exactly 🤝

You may have an issue with that, but its not unethical. I think everyone in the world saw the writing on the wall with with 1PAssword's perpetual licenses. There was going to be a time where its not an option.

You may not like the move, and that's fine, but they're fully in their right to change the licensing terms for future versions, just as you're free to find a competitor.

Yes, I'll not disagree with you on that. If you knew about it, google would help you locate the url, even contacting support, they provided the url, but for the unsuspecting consumer - they'd don't know about the option. Yes that's no Bueno

They are fully in their right to change the licensing but I do not like the way they did it. What is legal is not necessarily ethical. The dictionary define unethical as being immoral not illegal. You say the writing was on the wall but they themselves mentioned that they have no plans to discontinue the license and I quoted them. See the problem?

I do not have same problem with Dashlane since AFAIK since day one it was subscription. My problem with Agilebits is they come as wolves in sheep clothing. They claim its "whats best for the users and what our users prefer" . If it was so, why did you hide the license option deep in your website? They do not want to say we abandoned our loyal license users and forced them into subscription because that more profitable for US and we are just greedy.

I wouldn't have had a problem if they kept both option, or released a new cloud storage service with subscription. Its the tactic they used. I would still be upset but would not call them unethical had they came out clean and said that "We decided that its best for us to go via the subscription model and we are depricating the license model. We will continue to release patches and security fixes for the next 5 years but no new features."

and yes I did find a competitor, a free and FOSS one too. I also found another competitor that lets me store my data locally.

 

[MacBH928]

They changed their mind, what company doesn't do this? They are NOT csosting you money anymore.... my point. The fact YOU moved to a different password manager are are so full of hate for 1Password isn't healthy. Yes, you have an opinion, you're entitled to it, but this is down right hate.

1Password 7 still works, and doesn't need a subscription. If you have it, did they take it away? No. Did it stop working? No. Will it keep working? until updates from other software won't let it work 100% like it was new. There are people who still use older versions of 1Password... and it works. If you want to get technical, they didn't change their minds... the software you bought from them that you "own" still works, doesn't it? So, Ben didn't lie in that post, and quote from that post:

Updates are included until a major update (1Password 1-7).

Comparing 1Password to those 4 companies is not even close, and did you just compare 1Password to a company that was killing people?? Really? Wow . This is down right wrong and uncalled for, and more horrible to say than wishing a company to go out of business.

As for Facebook, I don't even wish they go out of business.. again they employee a lot of people. People also rely on them to communicate with family around the world. I do with they would become a stand up company.

FYI... you don't ever own software, you rent all of it. A company can terminate your license, and your app will stop working. There is a program people can buy to tune vehicles, and a friend did this for his Tacoma. If you go on Tacomaworld, this is a big thing also. One guy was trying to reverse engineer the program for himself, so he can sell it himself. Doing this, his license got terminated and the program no longer worked. He paid for it, it was his, and it's gone. He paid for the program, so wasn't it his? This story is on Tacomaworld also, so feel free to search it.

These days you don't even own your vehicle. There are many other car makers are saying This.

Yes the license I got still works I am not saying they scammed me with that. My problem is going forward, will I remain a customer with that company? Will I pay for their upgrades? Chevrolet used to make great solid cars in the 80s. In early 2000s we got a caprice that literally falls apart and shakes because they tried to cut cost on quality to maximise profit. Guess what happened to the Chevrolet sedan lineup

Yes I do hate companies that try to milk the customers to whatever is in their best interest. Its greed and dystopian. I choose a relationship with a business that has an exchange of benefit not abuse. Apple sells macbooks not because they love me but because they want my money, but in exchange I do get a nice greatly built computer that last me many years. Win-Win. So was the relationship with Agilebits until they decided to dial up their maximum profit possibility by taking away feature(local storage) and enforcing subscription.

Fine have it your way, they can aim for maximum profit and I will aim to promote and boycott such business behaviours. I aim not to live in a world where 1 company control the market like Google is controling search and online video (YouTube).

Comparing 1Password to those 4 companies is not even close, and did you just compare 1Password to a company that was killing people?? Really? Wow . This is down right wrong and uncalled for, and more horrible to say than wishing a company to go out of business.

I wasn't the one who said:

To hope a company dies and goes out of business is horrible to say. All of these people who will be without job, customers who have to move to a new password manager, and more. This is down right bull…..to say just because you don’t agree how they run their business?

the answer: Yes, some companies and businesses the world is better off without. I do not wish to live in a world where I have to rent my oven, my kettle, my TV software, my IoT light switches, my charging cables, and the software that runs in my bluetooth speakers and I am starting by boycotting and promoting against those who do and supporting those who don't.

--

As for licensing software the rabbit hole goes deep. What do you mean "own" the software? As I can re copy it, re sell it, change its copyrights? no. But I pay for it once and use it forever. I am not sure if this is still legal to sell the serial of software today, but for sure back in the day you could resell your Windows 95 CDs and game disks. You can still sell your movie DVD's and Xbox games and the Xbox itself including the software in it.

Do you own it? maybe not but for sure I am not paying monthly rent to keep it. I pay once and use forever. Vendor to vendor might have different license agreement and limits such as NOT to reverse engineer their software, or install on multiple devices, or not use it for commercial purposes, or NOT use it for illegal activities, or not make copies of it.

 

[Stiksi]

I made it myself. That said, in some jurisdictions, including the US, Public Domain exists - PD-licensed software is legally owned by just everyone.

You don’t own public domain stuff, you are allowed to use it freely. That’s a big difference.

 

[dogface1956]

Please see attached image above.

Saying Agilebits its unethical is because the way they switched from license to subscription. At first they said we offer both which was Okay. Slowly they started to withdraw the option for licensed option to enforce their subscription option as their only option available. Finally they totally killed the standard license and force people who choose to store on their device to store in their cloud.

Do you see the problem? They drew out the option from their customers on purpose. Why? because its more profitable to them. Its pure greed. They say that license model does not cover costs? Guess what. Agilebits has been around since 2006 and grew and thrived under the license model they were even Mac only AFAIK. When 2016 came along , its not enough to pay the bills? please, there is one guy who writes a multi-platform password manager and sells it for $5. For Agilbe bits $40-80 , not even $100 is enough. Enpass gives you the option of the $2/M subscription or $80 one-time license.

Agilebits collected $620 MILLION from investors. Do you know what those investors want? Double and triple that investment. How? by milking their customers. If they say their subscription option is superior in usability, why not let the customer choose?

I had no problem if Agilebits wanted to grow and offered more software or service or even a subscription option . They could have released an iOS competitor with that $620M , a Microsoft Office competitor, Secure email service , a YouTube alternative, CRM, Accounting software...but noooo . They want to milk the current user base and I refuse to be the cow to be milked.

When Apple wanted to grow, they released a phone, a tablet, a smart watch, AppleTV, iTunes store. Microsoft didn't raise Windows license but released Xbox console and created Microsoft Azure. Amazon created AWS.

You can choose 1password and pay the subscription if you like, but I too am free to voice my opinion and not support SAAS and buy licensed software and promote them.

Companies are free to change their business model, just as you are free not to do business with them. I don't see what Agilebits has done anything unethical by changing how they license their product. If that was the case then Microsoft, Adobe, and hundreds of other companies would be in the same boat and you realize that many of the titles that you think you are buying, if you actually read the license agreement you are not buying the software, it may be rented, leased or even loaned to you and the license holder can revoke the license at any time.

So they got money invested, for one how do you know that Agilebits is not working on other products, two even if they have not maybe they are investing in expanding their market for the existing product. How Agilebits uses the money that is invested is between Agilebits and their investors, if the investors are happy with direction that Agilebits is going that is what matters and what is ethical. It would be unethical if Agilebits collected the money from investors by saying they were going to increase the market share of 1Password, then invested the money on making a Microsoft competitor which to be honest has little chance of success in the marketplace.

Again you are free to vote with your feet, but calling them unethical is in your case "just because you are pissed off they changed their model and you feel they are making too much money and they got money invested in their company which has nothing to do with being ethical or not, unless they are now hiring "hitpersons" smuggling drugs, stealing little old people's retirement, etc. with that money.

 

[MatrixArchitect]

Not sure if mentioned but Stack Social has a deal on lifetime Enpass.

 

[MacBH928]

@Mr. Heckles I wrote a big post that I put effort in replying to you but the mods delete my post and yours. I just want to let you know that I am not against you voicing your opinion and if it was for me I wouldn't have deleted it. I'll stop here before they ban me altogether.

Companies are free to change their business model, just as you are free not to do business with them. I don't see what Agilebits has done anything unethical by changing how they license their product. If that was the case then Microsoft, Adobe, and hundreds of other companies would be in the same boat and you realize that many of the titles that you think you are buying, if you actually read the license agreement you are not buying the software, it may be rented, leased or even loaned to you and the license holder can revoke the license at any time.

You are correct but I didn't like the way they did it. They tried justifying it by saying "it what our customers want(yeah right!)" "we have no plans to discontinue the license app" "its whats best for our customers". But they did not stop there they actually went ahead and pulled out features like local storage and cloud sync of your choice in addition their app went electron! (I didn't test it but I hear electron is heavy) . Then they hid the licensing option deep in their website to force people to pick up the subscription model to make it seem as if its their only option. I do not like this sketchy behaviour. They could have come out clean like Flexbits and say we changed to subscription instead of playing the good guy. I never heard any one say "I rather pay monthly infinite rental price instead of buying it outright".

As for Adobe and Microsoft I am easier on guys that have a behemoth complex software that actually costs like $4K to buy out right. I rather pay $40 rent ($480 end of year, $4800 in 10 year) especially in a business environment since you use that app to actually make even more money. But simple apps like email client, password managers, note pad for personal use...yeah not so much.

As for licensing agreement you are correct but I do not have to pay to continue using it. Not sure who mentioned it here, but now farming trucks you no longer own and have to pay rental price to operate. I do not aim to live in a world that works like this especially that I know these companies flourished using the license model in the 70s,80,90s . Microsoft was worth $800B(adjusted to inflation) in 1999 and all they did is sell licensed software no subscription model.

They can revoke their license but I will have other methods to continue to use software either from a different vendor, start my own (grapheneOS, Netflix) , or get a FOSS option. Just like I am doing now with 1password

So they got money invested, for one how do you know that Agilebits is not working on other products, two even if they have not maybe they are investing in expanding their market for the existing product. How Agilebits uses the money that is invested is between Agilebits and their investors, if the investors are happy with direction that Agilebits is going that is what matters and what is ethical. It would be unethical if Agilebits collected the money from investors by saying they were going to increase the market share of 1Password, then invested the money on making a Microsoft competitor which to be honest has little chance of success in the marketplace.

Again you are free to vote with your feet, but calling them unethical is in your case "just because you are pissed off they changed their model and you feel they are making too much money and they got money invested in their company which has nothing to do with being ethical or not, unless they are now hiring "hitpersons" smuggling drugs, stealing little old people's retirement, etc. with that money.

They could be but all I see is trying to milk the current customer base which is something capitalists have been doing before so I won't be surprised it they redo it here. I also have seen investors throw money at tech companies thinking they will expand only to meet their ultimate death (myspace, Tumblr, dot come crash). Time will tell.

To me being unethical is not being clear with the customer and trying to twist the truth. I just do not wish to continue to make business with such companies. I recall I signed up for AOL to check it out with a click of a button and when i wanted to cancel I had to talk to someone in HQ by phone. Yeah, you can define unethical as you wish but to me its how they treat the customer is part of being ethical.

lifetime Enpass

yeah I know someone mentioned here. I feel its a bit sketchy that this "offer" is always there on social stack meanwhile on the website you have to pay the full $80. I feel its unfair to the unaware. I learned to hunt for discounted prices for software online since I didn't know that was a thing.

it is what it is I guess.

btw, I love that you have been registered since 2004 and have only made 20 post. 1 of them in this thread. I am honoured!

 

[MrGimper]

Anyone using Keeper Password Manager?

 

[MacBH928]

Anyone using Keeper Password Manager?

I always wanted to meet someone who did. This app has 5-star review from 150K people on App Store meanwhile 1password has 3/5 from 2K users, and I was under the impression that 1password was like the most popular manager bar none.

Website seems very "corporaty" with stock royalty free photos. A big no for me. When I go with security I have to know who is behind it. This one seems obscure

To be fair to 1password, this one has the same issues as 1password for me. Closed source, their cloud (As it seems), subscription, and aimed for the corporate as their GUI seems very dull and unlike 1password that is very user friendly.

 

[maflynn]

Looks like Lastpass was hacked again, though the vendor states no user data was compromised.
Notice of Recent Security Incident

AND in a surprise to almost no one.
LastPass reveals another security breach

Notice of Recent Security Incident

Here's the thing. We use password managers for security reasons, i.e., use complex passwords and avoid re-using the same password. It is beyond me, that people still want to use LastPass given their inability to protect themselves - their track record is beyond abhorrent.

 

[VineRider]

You can almost forgive a company for being hacked once. The issue with LastPass, is that it keeps happening. That definitely does not inspire confidence in their ability to secure their infrastructure.