2011 IMAC Which OS is best

[mikehalloran]

You don't need to repeat that you think all this is a bad idea.

No. I believe we have you to remind people what I think.

It was your personal attacks and your taking my quotes way out of context and your false equivalency that caused me to respond. Otherwise, I would have shrugged this off.

I shall not forget that this thread is all about you, you, you, you.

Happy now?

Just remember the title of this thread, 2011 IMAC Which OS is best

It's High Sierra. Period.

I shall neither read nor respond to any more of your nonsense.

 

[USB3foriMac]

I think Linux is best, others think Windows is best.
It's great that you think high sierra is best, but is it?
Your "period" disqualifies you.
You deserve another
Fish

 

[Ausdauersportler]

I think Linux is best, others think Windows is best.
It's great that you think high sierra is best, but is it?
Your "period" disqualifies you.
You deserve another
Fish

Let it be This has become a feeding session, I will not write what you are feeding, exactly.

It is not new that Apple likes closed systems and this approach has clearly advantages - there were only two vendors offering a complete (more or less hassle free) user experience, Sun and Apple. Both offered hard- and software out of one hand. I do not like the fact that Apple drops support for older hardware constantly over time, especially the 2011 were probably just dropped because of the bad design of the ATI cards.
And probably the invention of the SSD closed the biggest visible gap of the current technology - memory and cpu are way to fast compared to classical rotating discs. Adding a new SSD to a 10 year old system creates a speed and user experience sufficient for probably 99% of private users. We even added two years old AMD GPUs. Right now I have no use case for a 2017 or 2019 system. Others may have it. And I lost interest in the latest and greatest and most expensive hardware, too.

I vote for Solaris, just kidding

 

[Hombre53]

It's possible. There's a hack and a patch. I've done it. Avoid!

That makes it sound like someone's arbitrary decision. It's not.

The problem is that the GPU in your 2011 (and mine and my 2010) does not support graphics acceleration under Mojave and there is no workaround. As the guy who wrote the patch says, "Mojave on these Macs is useless." DosDude1 is absolutely right.

I have Mojave on a test SSD and can boot mine via eSATA. Be prepared to erase the SSD and do a Time Machine Restore after you see the results.

There are a couple pf other threads where people are trying to find compatible GPUs and the routines that will work. Still looking.

Op, if you ignore all advice on your thread, don't ignore this one.

 

[Hombre53]

High Sierra. Anything else (Mojave, Catalina) is an exercise in futility.

 

[Kent W]

I have an iMac i5 27 2011 that is stuck on High Sierra unless I replace GPU and update the BIOS on the new GPU. I could then use Dosdude1's patcher to get to Catalina. It's a lot of patching and efforts with mixed results. So I don't get into that when it's a lot more needed than just the Catalina patch itself. I have a Macbook Air i7 that runs Catalina natively so it's OK.

Anyhow lets face it, High Sierra has soon reached EOL this fall and no more saftety updates and no more Safari updates. The latest versions of iMovie and iWork from Apple are since some time not compatible. Several other software manufacturers have abandoned HS and more will follow. Still apps on the platform works great and there is always the alternative to run other browsers and run anti malware at frequent intervalls. Still it got me to think.

So this is my approach:
1) External Thunderbolt SSD with latest and greatest Windows 10 - worked excellent, installed through a Parallels setup in MacOS since Apple doesn't approve of external drives in Boot Camp. Works great though, just remember to use legacy BIOS mode when installing. This way I got a modern updated OS. I installed Itunes and iCloud as well.

2) I use the iMac as target display for my MBA i7. I use Virtual KVM app by Duane Fields (GIT-hub) to auto toggle iMac keyboard and mouse to MBA when I plug in the thunderbolt cable. I close the lid on the MBA and the iMac displays the MBA as it would have been an iMac itself running Catalina.

3) I can of course get into HS on the iMac and use that environment as before.

This is my way of mitigating Apple SW EOL, right now exploring latest Windows 10 2004 release that works flawlessly so far.

 

[mikehalloran]

This thread was NEVER about you. Why must you always discredit other's activities!

Why do you have such a problem with others expressing their opinions?

That is a rhetorical question. I am not interested in the answer.

My question was why would anyone want to add USB 3 to a 2011. Your answer boils down to because you know how.

Well goody for you but I don't think that's good enough and has made you upset. Why? (another question you shouldn't answer). There's nothing you can write nor insult you can hurl that will change my opinion.

You gave away your agenda when you stated that Windows and LINUX were superior operating systems. THAT is what I called nonsense and I stand by it having spent many years on a Windows support desk and many others as a UNIX admin (SCO & ATT). By specializing in the Mac, my gig is extremely part time—can't say that for the admins trying to keep Win10 clown car running over those same networks.They're full time employees while I'm a part time consultant.

I deal with hundreds of users. Not one has ever asked how they can add USB 3 to a pre-2012 iMac. Never. Of course, if they do, I will be sure to let them know that someone knows how. But those school teachers and office workers will never ask—and I am the person they would.

I have no problem with you preaching that butchering iMacs with a Dremel tool to add functionality that very few want is a good thing. I just don't care.

 

[Ausdauersportler]

Why do you have such a problem with others expressing their opinions?

That is a rhetorical question. I am not interested in the answer.

My question was why would anyone want to add USB 3 to a 2011. Your answer boils down to because you know how.

Well goody for you but I don't think that's good enough and has made you upset. Why? (another question you shouldn't answer). There's nothing you can write nor insult you can hurl that will change my opinion.

You gave away your agenda when you stated that Windows and LINUX were superior operating systems. THAT is what I called nonsense and I stand by it having spent many years on a Windows support desk and many others as a UNIX admin (SCO & ATT). By specializing in the Mac, my gig is extremely part time—can't say that for the admins trying to keep Win10 clown car running over those same networks.They're full time employees while I'm a part time consultant.

I deal with hundreds of users. Not one has ever asked how they can add USB 3 to a pre-2012 iMac. Never. Of course, if they do, I will be sure to let them know that someone knows how. But those school teachers and office workers will never ask—and I am the person they would.

I have no problem with you preaching that butchering iMacs with a Dremel tool to add functionality that very few want is a good thing. I just don't care.

I agree with all of your explanations about the nice things UNIX based operating systems offer to admins and indirectly to users now, too. Linux has surely the same admin and kernel features Darwin has these days, it lacks of applications support and a modern nice iPad and iPhone aware desktop. Solaris had for decades the most modern and scalable kernel, it lacks of...

But the last sentence is self contradicting. If you do not care about other opinions than you would not write answers becoming longer and longer.

BTW:
- The dremel would be needed to add a MXM-B graphics card, not an UBS3 port.

- Unfortunately iMacs are dying in numbers even here in colder north Europe due to bad design or bad usage, regardless which model you have. Same with MacBooks...

- If nobody has ever asked you to add a USB3 to an iMac I would still call this "ego-empirical" knowledge. This knowledge is nothing worth unless you start to communicate with other outside your own box.

- I know of an U.S. president calling Corona a flue. Just think of a doctor answering you "for more than 40 years and more than 1000 patients here I have not heard of such a virus, it cannot exist, though!

 

[mikehalloran]

BTW:
- The dremel would be needed to add a MXM-B graphics card, not an UBS3 port.

Incorrect. His instructions call for cutting holes in the case to add these ports.

Pass...
[automerge]1594739583[/automerge]

[automerge]1594739870[/automerge]

- If nobody has ever asked you to add a USB3 to an iMac I would still call this "ego-empirical" knowledge. This knowledge is nothing worth unless you start to communicate with other outside your own box.

That's quite funny. You have no idea the size of my "box" and I'll leave it at that.

 

[Ausdauersportler]

Incorrect. His instructions call for cutting holes in the case to add these ports.

Pass...
[automerge]1594739583[/automerge]

[automerge]1594739870[/automerge]

That's quite funny. You have no idea the size of my "box" and I'll leave it at that.

Finally, you got it: That is exactly your personal problem, the unknown size of your box or your echo chamber.

Have your ever heard of these "Thunderbolt 2 docks" ? I wonder who bought this years ago when it was new and who is willing to spend now nearly 200 USD in an old piece of hardware just to get some USB 3.1 ports..

 

[RUGERMAN]

Yes, but you would have to drop -way- back to Yosemite or even Mavericks to see a major difference in memory usage.

I'd suggest staying with High Sierra and expediting the memory upgrade.

I have a late 09 running High Sierra just fine all I did was add memory to 8g, it still has the old spinning drive and it runs great.

 

[Brian Y]

This is going to sound unconventional, but I've retired my old 2011 iMac as a Windows 10 machine. It works absolutely great (runs far better with Windows than with later versions of MacOS).

 

[Mjsais]

I have an iMac i5 27 2011 that is stuck on High Sierra unless I replace GPU and update the BIOS on the new GPU. I could then use Dosdude1's patcher to get to Catalina. It's a lot of patching and efforts with mixed results. So I don't get into that when it's a lot more needed than just the Catalina patch itself. I have a Macbook Air i7 that runs Catalina natively so it's OK.

Anyhow lets face it, High Sierra has soon reached EOL this fall and no more saftety updates and no more Safari updates. The latest versions of iMovie and iWork from Apple are since some time not compatible. Several other software manufacturers have abandoned HS and more will follow. Still apps on the platform works great and there is always the alternative to run other browsers and run anti malware at frequent intervalls. Still it got me to think.

So this is my approach:
1) External Thunderbolt SSD with latest and greatest Windows 10 - worked excellent, installed through a Parallels setup in MacOS since Apple doesn't approve of external drives in Boot Camp. Works great though, just remember to use legacy BIOS mode when installing. This way I got a modern updated OS. I installed Itunes and iCloud as well.

2) I use the iMac as target display for my MBA i7. I use Virtual KVM app by Duane Fields (GIT-hub) to auto toggle iMac keyboard and mouse to MBA when I plug in the thunderbolt cable. I close the lid on the MBA and the iMac displays the MBA as it would have been an iMac itself running Catalina.

3) I can of course get into HS on the iMac and use that environment as before.

This is my way of mitigating Apple SW EOL, right now exploring latest Windows 10 2004 release that works flawlessly so far.

Can you tell me what ssd thunderbolt enclosure you are using? thanks

 

[bousozoku]

The 6xxM GPUs don't support the new Metal API, which the Mojave operating system apparently now exclusively uses.

That's interesting because my GeForce 650M in my mid-2012 MacBook Pro is running fine with Catalina. I never ran Mojave, though.

 

[mikehalloran]

That's interesting because my GeForce 650M in my mid-2012 MacBook Pro is running fine with Catalina. I never ran Mojave, though.

There's some misinformation or confusion somewhere. Catalina is a supported MacOS on the mid-2012 MBP like yours (and mine). Mojave ran fine, too. Of course, they are Metal Graphics compatible.
Mac computers that support Metal

 

[Kent W]

Can you tell me what ssd thunderbolt enclosure you are using? thanks

I used a LaCie enclosure, replaced the HDD inside with a Samsung SSD. There are probably models with SSD already installed from start.

I basically followed this video instruction on Youtube.

 

[mikehalloran]

Can you tell me what ssd thunderbolt enclosure you are using? thanks

Don't know what enclosure he/she is using but I like this one.
OWC Drive Dock Thunderbolt 2

Unfortunately, it's discontinued but they show up used all the time. I like that it holds 2 drives and each are bootable (unlike a 2-drive USB Dock). It also supports TRIM if you run sudo trimforce enable in Terminal — again, unlike USB-anything on a Mac. Also, there are on/off switches for each drive. This makes swapping drives a 5 second operation.

Here's the dirty little secret: A SATA III SSD is no faster in one of these than a USB 3 enclosure. Yes, really. The bottleneck is SATA III. Unless… you can combine the two drives into a RAID 0 enclosure — that will run faster over Thunderbolt (now USB 3 is the bottleneck) Although RAID 0 is faster, it's not twice as fast and you might not notice.

Anyway, I used one of those docks with my 2011 iMac. When I put that machine to pasture, I connected that dock to my iMac Pro through the Apple TB2–TB3 adapter where it now holds a pair of 4GB SSDs for my streaming libraries.

 

[padams35]

That's interesting because my GeForce 650M in my mid-2012 MacBook Pro is running fine with Catalina. I never ran Mojave, though.

Whoops, missed a digit. The [Radeon] 6xxxm GPU's lack metal support. The [Nvidea] 600's do work as you know from first hand experience.

 

[OriginalMacBabe]

My Dad's 27" mid-2011 running 10.11.6 (El Capitan) with 32G RAM and 1TB HDD (that I'm about to replace with an SSD because it is full). I left it at El Capitan because my 2008 MBP (8G RAM, 1TB SSD) cannot be upgraded beyond this and I sync them.

Should I be upgrading the iMac to Hight Sierra or just leave it alone since it works fine as long as my MBP is still working for me?

As for all the fighting and the Apple slagging ... there are plenty of us out here plugging away on perfectly functional old equipment ~ my MBP, if you were paying attention, is a 2008 ~ which is exactly why Apple IS our choice. If you honestly believe it is inferior, why are you in this forum? Many of us cannot afford to upgrade and/or just don't need to at this time. My parents are now in their 90s, buying them a new machine just makes no sense. I expected to inherit the iMac, and I'm sorry I bought the 2011 instead of the 2012 when I bought the refurb from Apple (as I always do), which would have been the far superior choice, but I made a 6-month miscalculation and am missing some nice functionality, such as handoff, but otherwise the machines are still doing all we need them to do, and I am (at least before the pandemic forced me to move in with my parents as caregiver) able to screenshare and remote manage any issues they had (now using TeamViewer since Apple cut BackToMyMac).

 

[mikehalloran]

My Dad's 27" mid-2011 running 10.11.6 (El Capitan) with 32G RAM and 1TB HDD (that I'm about to replace with an SSD because it is full). I left it at El Capitan because my 2008 MBP (8G RAM, 1TB SSD) cannot be upgraded beyond this and I sync them.

Should I be upgrading the iMac to Hight Sierra or just leave it alone since it works fine as long as my MBP is still working for me?

If you don't need to upgrade, there's no real reason to unless you are concerned about security.

When you replace the HDD with an SSD, make certain that the NV RAM battery is replaced also—a CR2032 is fine once you have that spinning heat pump out of there. It takes less than 5 additional minutes when installing an SSD. When that battery voltage gets low, it is often misdiagnosed as a GPU problem—your display will freak out or go black.

You can install up to an 8TB SSD into a 2011.

 

[mdgm]

You can run High Sierra (and even newer Mac OS) on the 2008 MBP though unsupported.

3rd party drivers for the AMD GPU in 2011 iMacs are expected to be released soon meaning that performance running the 2011 iMac should be usable in Catalina and a little better than completely unusable on Big Sur. Though running unsupported Mac OS on a mac is more effort to maintain. However it gives the advantage of using a more modern and potentially more secure OS.

An advantage of High Sierra on the 2011 Macs is that you can boot off a NVMe SSD. If you have 2011 iMac -> TB (1/2) cable -> Apple TB2 to TB3 connector to TB3 Dock -> TB3 NVMe SSD you should get performance a little quicker than using a single internal SATA III (6Gbps) SSD. Only having TB1 limits the performance.

When you replace the HDD with an SSD, make certain that the NV RAM battery is replaced also—a CR2032 is fine once you have that spinning heat pump out of there. It takes less than 5 additional minutes when installing an SSD. When that battery voltage gets low, it is often misdiagnosed as a GPU problem—your display will freak out or go black.

Could the same problem happen with a 2011 Mac Mini that uses the AMD GPU? Can that also uses a CR2032 battery if you have a SSD installed? Might try resurrecting a dead 2011 Mac Mini if it's possibly just a dead battery. Worst that could happen is doing more damage to a non-functional machine.

 

[mikehalloran]

An advantage of High Sierra on the 2011 Macs is that you can boot off a NVMe SSD. If you have 2011 iMac -> TB (1/2) cable -> Apple TB2 to TB3 connector to TB3 Dock -> TB3 NVMe SSD you should get performance a little quicker than using a single internal SATA III (6Gbps) SSD. Only having TB1 limits the performance.


Could the same problem happen with a 2011 Mac Mini that uses the AMD GPU? Can that also uses a CR2032 battery if you have a SSD installed? Might try resurrecting a dead 2011 Mac Mini if it's possibly just a dead battery. Worst that could happen is doing more damage to a non-functional machine.

You cannot run a TB3 SSD off of a TB2 bus unless that TB3 unit is externally powered. The Apple TB2–TB3 adapter does not pass bus power. It is designed to allow TB 1/2 and FireWire devices to work with TB3 Macs — and for that it works quite well. My Firewire audio interface daisychains thtough the Apple FW–TB adapter into my (discontinued) OWC TB Dock into my iMac Pro through the Apple TB2–TB3 adapter.

"Only having TB1 limits the performance."

Not on a 2011. A TB2 or 3 unit cannot increase the performance of TB1. Likewise, the real bottleneck on a 2011 is USB 2. Only mounting a SATA III SSD internally (easy—takes less than 15 minutes if you've done one before) or on a TB external can maximize your Read/Write speed. Two of the three internal buses on a 2011 are SATA III (after the 2012 firmware update) The third for the optical drive is SATA II. This means that an NVMe blade — if you buy one of those very expensive TB2 boxes that can house one — cannot exceed SATA III speeds on a 2011. SATA III and USB 3 are about the same as far as R/W performance goes. There is no workaround for this.

There is a guy who's posted earlier on how to get USB 3 into your 2011 — it's ugly and involves a Dremel tool. He's not at all happy that I find that exercise pointless and silly — but I do.

The BR2032 battery is electrically identical to the common CR2032. The difference being that the BR2032 shell is thicker and corrugated allowing it to be more resistant to extreme heat and cold. The CR2032 is fine in a Mini once it's running cooler SSDs.

I would use a BR2032 in a Mac Pro 6.1 or an iMac made 2013 or later due to cooling issues—readily available on Amazon. Not an issue for 2014 and later Minis and other Macs that do not use an NV RAM battery.

 

[mdgm]

I mentioned a dock (AC powered, of course) as that supplies power to the drive.

I meant the 2011 Macs only having TB1. TB1 is faster than USB2.

I ran a speed test with a 2011 Mini and the TB1 speeds using a NVMe SSD exceeded the maximum capable from SATA III but not by a lot. I don’t think TB ports use SATA on the motherboard. I think they use the faster PCIe.

 

[mikehalloran]

I mentioned a dock (AC powered, of course) as that supplies power to the drive.

I meant the 2011 Macs only having TB1. TB1 is faster than USB2.

I ran a speed test with a 2011 Mini and the TB1 speeds using a NVMe SSD exceeded the maximum capable from SATA III but not by a lot. I don’t think TB ports use SATA on the motherboard. I think they use the faster PCIe.

Apple and OWC both say that TB3 drives cannot be used with TB 1/2 through the Apple Adapter.

"

• The Envoy Pro EX with Thunderbolt 3 cannot be used with Thunderbolt/Thunderbolt 2 enabled systems via the the Apple Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter. The Apple adapter does not support Thunderbolt 3 or USB-C devices with captive cables.

.
If you've run tests with a TB 3 dock that show Apple and OWC to be wrong, please post your results along with the exact hardware that you used. Otherwise, you appear to be guessing incorrectly.

Likewise, I'd be interested in any tests showing actual R/W results with a 2011 iMac using an NVMe blade along with how you were able to set it up. I imagine that many would be interested in this.

 

[mdgm]

I have connected OWC TB3 Envoy Express NVMe drives via OWC TB3 14-port docks to both the 2011 iMac and the 2011 Mac Mini. It works. I have booted High Sierra off the TB3 drive for both Mac models.

The dock has its own power supply so it can supply power to the drive. It’s not cheap but it does work. You are also limited to using High Sierra for compatibility with the drive.

It does mean that the bus powered drive that is meant to be portable isn't nearly so portable with these older Macs as you need to have a dock connected to power. I presume they don't promote this setup as they don't see a big market for it.

You get a 2011 iMac
Connect a TB(1/2) cable to the iMac
Connect the other end to an Apple TB3 to TB2 adapter (this is the only bi-directional adapter)
Connect the TB3 end of the Apple TB3 to TB2 adapter to a TB3 dock with its own external power supply such as the OWC TB3 14-port Dock (check system requirements to make sure it works with 10.13 before purchasing). The dock is needed to supply power to the drive.
Connect a TB3 drive (check that it works with 10.13 before purchasing).

I'm using the OWC Envoy Express TB3 enclosure with an Aura P12 NVMe drive inside.

This should work with all Macs with a TB1/2 port, I think, though I've only tested on the 2011 Mac Mini Server and 2011 iMac.

I updated to the latest High Sierra 10.13.6 with all security updates and cloned the hdd onto the external SSD using Super Duper. The Macs feel a lot quicker booted off an SSD.

The TB3 dock does have USB3 ports. Unfortunately it specifically states in the manual that the USB3 ports are only bootable on 2017 and newer Macs so I haven't tried booting off USB3. I haven't connected any USB3 drives yet to test file transfer speeds.

Currently I only have the Mac Mini booted off a TB3 SSD (trying to figure out if I can boot Windows off a TB3 SSD with the iMac - I almost exclusively boot Windows on the iMac, the SSD is still connected and is seen in Windows - though I think booting Windows off NVMe requires UEFI not sure if trying that would be safe on the 2011 iMac). I haven't done speed tests with the iMac yet but I presume the results would probably be similar with numbers a little better than an internal SATA III SSD but not by a huge amount.