2013 Mac Pro Price (Range?)

[flat five]

[self quote]

i'm sorry if i'm coming across as being hostile.. inside i don't feel that way but can understand that it may be coming out that way.. i'll try different wording/tone in the future.

[add] i mean, yes, there is some hostility in there.. but it's not directed at you vRain.. i view you as on my side.. the same as the other 99% of us on the planet.. if there's any hostility in me regarding money, it's directed at and is a product of the corporatocracy/bankers/money makers&controllers

 

[flat five]

This conversation is reminding me of the film Elysium.

Med-pods and Mac Pros for everyone! Utopia at last.

apple (and all the other corporations) is the exact opposite of the types of institutions needed to be in place for a utopian society.

utopia isn't happening until all technology and resources are viewed with an open source mindset by everyone on the planet

 

[VirtualRain]

i'm sorry if i'm coming across as being hostile.. inside i don't feel that way but can understand that it may be coming out that way.. i'll try different wording/tone in the future.

No worries... Similarly, I don't want to frustrate any one with my views/posts.

No, but many do.

You again fail to understand a lot more goes into than the raw material price. Its also added shipping (at least twice) and added machining. When going from 40 lbs to 10lbs, its certainly becomes significant. All told, just those things could add up to $100 in savings, maybe slightly more even.

But you again only state the thing added, the SSD, and not taken away, the HDD (at old prices). I don't think there is a huge cost difference between a 1TB HDD in 2010 and a yet unknown size PCIe SSD in late 2013. If its a 128GB, that's basically a wash, and at 256GB it might be just $50.

I think its close to wash in cost. Maybe $100 or so more in retail estimates of cost. Which means the cost to Apple in bulk sales is much less. What's more important is pricing this thing to competitive.

That's a total strawman. Of course this isn't Apple trying to beat Dell in making high volume, low cost, low profit-margin solutions. But they do have to compete with certain products from Dell/HP. And I don't think anyone is particularly concerned about GFLOPS/inch^3.... If that's how Apple is reduced to marketing this thing, and justifying a high price, it will flop fast.

I can't disagree with anything you've said.

Having worked in product management and marketing for a long time, I know that pricing a product is a complicated undertaking and this kind of product has all kinds of challenges... BOM, target market, volume, R&D investment, competition, etc. all play a role.

At any rate, I have nothing further to add at this point but I enjoy debating this... It's a good way to fill the gap until the product launches and possibly try to set reasonable expectations.

 

[flat five]

anyway, if you guys really want to figure out how much this thing will cost, you'd need some sort of honest poll.. (as in, if you're of the mindset that you won't be buying one regardless, then there's no need to respond)

posters would answer, truthfully, what the absolute most they will spend on, say, a typical midrange configuration.

after enough responses, average them out then lean a bit towards the high side.. that's how much the new mac pro will cost

 

[Fomaphone]

who expects anything to change? 2-10k configured from apple, and the sky's the limit on peripherals.

 

[phpmaven]

Exactly, I'm getting tired of hearing the constant drum beat of "the price has to be higher". Bull! I'm sure one of the reasons of the stripped down system was to reduce the cost, probably to $2k on the low end. People seem to be so stupidly focused on the retail price of FirePro graphics, not recognizing that the price just reflects AMD driver "certification". In the Mac the drivers all come from Apple and they drive supplier costs down to the ground. Those graphics chips are little different from the consumer versions.

Apple is all about high volume consumer sales, and the present Mac Pro sticks out like sore thumb. The Darth Vadar Edition at $2K would bring in a lot of prosumers and bring sales in line with their other higher end computers.



Mark my words, I agree I'd be highly surprised to see a 4-core/8GB RAM/128GB Flash/W5000 GPU (possibly single GPU BTO) that isn't at $1,999

If you think any version of the new Mac Pro will be $1,999.00 you are in dream land my friend. I will be surprised if it starts at less than $2,999.00

 

[Tesselator]

[self quote]




[add] i mean, yes, there is some hostility in there.. but it's not directed at you vRain.. i view you as on my side.. the same as the other 99% of us on the planet.. if there's any hostility in me regarding money, it's directed at and is a product of the corporatocracy/bankers/money makers&controllers

The bankster bit I can sure understand. Those who understand how money works and what the banksters are capable of, understand there's an impending doom hanging over most of us. We're not seeing the effects yet because they haven't opened the flood gates but they've built the dam and filled it so full some is sloshing over the top already. When (not if) they open the flood gates there's going to be some global hell. I wonder what the price of a MacPro will be then? I guess they'll hit the $100,000 mark before it's over.

But all ya gotta do to alleviate the fear and stress is prepare a little and meditate a little. Doing so one soon regains their center and realizes the world (even broken) is a pretty awesome and wonderful place.

 

[VirtualRain]

If you think any version of the new Mac Pro will be $1,999.00 you are in dream land my friend. I will be surprised if it starts at less than $2,999.00

What makes you believe that? I only ask because you're one of the few (only?) to agree with me

 

[phpmaven]

What makes you believe that? I only ask because you're one of the few (only?) to agree with me

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57591437-37/how-much-will-apples-new-mac-pro-cost/

 

[Cubemmal]

If you think any version of the new Mac Pro will be $1,999.00 you are in dream land my friend. I will be surprised if it starts at less than $2,999.00

However I have solid reasons to back up my assertion while those who think they'll be priced in the stratosphere have offered none, other than "FirePro's are expensive, and look at that SSD!" while ignoring the reduced BOM costs and the simple fact that they are taking away with this computer, not adding in.

The facts are that it looks clear that the computer is cheaper to manufacture, of course what the final price will be is up to Apple. Maybe they want to kill the line off and will price it to guarantee that.

 

[DisMyMac]

Take a maxed BTO iMac, minus $1000 for the screen, and there is your minimum base price.

Plus a graduated Apple tax for being the Pro...

 

[Nugget]

However I have solid reasons to back up my assertion while those who think they'll be priced in the stratosphere have offered none, other than "FirePro's are expensive, and look at that SSD!"

That is simply not true. You may not agree with the reasoning that's been posted, but to say that no reasoning has been posted is absurd. I'd invite you to re-visit the thread if you truly believe this.

 

[Cubemmal]

That is simply not true. You may not agree with the reasoning that's been posted, but to say that no reasoning has been posted is absurd. I'd invite you to re-visit the thread if you truly believe this.

Well I don't want to troll the hundreds of posts, but from memory people cite the following

• FirePro cards (all that FirePro means is a consumer chip with special drivers, but Apple uses their own drivers so we're just getting consumer chips here which Apple is getting at a margin they specify)
• SSD (yes these are more pricy, but Apple is probably the largest purchaser of flash chips in the world. They are getting them cheap.
• Polished custom case (the old case very likely cost much more to produce, this is just a stamped billet put in an automatic polishing machine, trivial)

Anything else? Fast RAM, whatever that's just a chipset, the heat sink is nothing special, etc. They threw out parts left and right, the Bill Of Materials - which is the start and end of a products price, is cheaper than the old machine.

 

[flat five]

But all ya gotta do to alleviate the fear and stress is prepare a little and meditate a little. Doing so one soon regains their center and realizes the world (even broken) is a pretty awesome and wonderful place.

i could use some centering- that's for sure.
it's hard
(or it's probably one of those things that's super easy except we make it hard on ourselves

----------

What makes you believe that? I only ask because you're one of the few (only?) to agree with me

oh, hey.. i don't disagree with your pricing.. i fully expect to spend somewhere between 3-4000 on what will amount to be a mid configuration (the tag price may be less but i'm also considering sales tax)

the stuff i was disagreeing with was how the costs were being guessed at.

 

[ValSalva]

For what it's worth this is what Marco Arment had to say yesterday after seeing the prices for the new Xeons:

I’d be very surprised to see the new Mac Pro’s entry price below $3,500, and for a CPU that makes the Mac Pro barrier worth crossing, I think we’re talking $5,000 and up.

One thing seems assured, there will definitely be price differentiation between the nMP and a high end iMac

 

[VirtualRain]

They threw out parts left and right, the Bill Of Materials - which is the start and end of a products price, is cheaper than the old machine.

Yes, but what are those parts and what is their cost?

Member Wallysb0i and I debated this back around post 160. I assert that they shaved off about $100 in parts while adding $500 in GPU, SSD, and TB controllers. He disagreed, thinking the net gain in cost was probably closer to $100. At best it could be a wash (stuff removed equals new stuff added)... At least at today's parts prices. Then there's the whole R&D aspect to factor in.

What's your analysis? What's the cost of stuff removed vs stuff added?

 

[RoastingPig]

 

[VirtualRain]

For what it's worth this is what Marco Arment had to say yesterday after seeing the prices for the new Xeons:

One thing seems assured, there will definitely be price differentiation between the nMP and a high end iMac

Yes, but he's talking about the prices for the dual processor parts. For the entry level, Apple will probably use the 1600 series v2 which are priced the same as the IB-E i7. There is still a decent Quad Core at around $300 like previous generations. Whether Apple uses a Quad or Hex for the entry level has been the subject of some debate though.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7193/intel-ivy-bridgee-pricing-leaked

 

[deconstruct60]

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57591437-37/how-much-will-apples-new-mac-pro-cost/

A joke article. I'm not sure what IHS iSuppli is smoking ( and frankly Tim Cook as made comments alluding to pretty much the same thing on conference calls ).

"... Those Xeon chips, for instance, can go well past $2,000 (though Apple gets discounts from buying in bulk) ... "

On the high end sure. But why on Earth would Apple put an extremely high end Xeon in the entry level Mac Pro? It is actually the lowest end of the Xeon line up that actually matters to entry level pricing of which the article (and perhaps iSuppli ? ) don't really offer up.

The article doesn't want to bring up $300 Xeon E5's because then the BOM prices wouldn't blow out the old entry price.

"... But there might simply not be that much room for adjusting the hardware in this machine. ... "

ROTFLMAO. What? about 10-12 Xeon E5 to choose from that would fit the socket ( not that Apple would offer that many). 3 FirePros to choose from. Probably 2-3 SSDs to choose from ( if limit to just one SSD. SSDs on each GPU card). 10 * 3 * 2 that's 60 configs and haven't even done RAM yet.

Compared to multiple million configuration boxes perhaps. Small in terms of numbers ... not really.

" ... Based on some rough estimates of comparable hardware, components, and labor, just the raw cost of the machine could total $2,800, ... "

More than likely this is wholesale retail FirePro card comparison primarily driving that. This is far more whether go down to the raw costs on the video cards or those costs plus what AMD mark-up. If just raw costs and no ones market up no way get anywhere near $2,800 for reasonable entry level components.

Again really funny how article doesn't list what these comparable components are. Just that they are $2,800.

 

[wonderspark]

If they sell for less than a current refurbished model, it will be party time.

1. Buy the base model for peanuts
2. Swap in top CPU, GPUs, flash SSD and RAM
3. ?????
4. Profit!

Apple will be enraged that people out-smarted them once again by extending the life by two or three times, but we MacRumors folk will all be dancing and giving out high-fives for being so much smarter than the evil corporation.

I'm already shopping for a second live-in sushi chef. This thing is going to be so cheap, I can heat my house with a few of them instead of using gas!

 

[omnious]

By the way, someone mentioned SSD prices, then I remembered reading about the new Samsung 840 EVO over at Tom's Hardware: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/samsung-840-evo-review-1tb-ssd,3567.html

Obviously SSD in the Trash Can Mac Pro will be custom, but might use Samsung as Apple does for higher-end machines...

 

[thunng8]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7193/intel-ivy-bridgee-pricing-leaked

I think you meant this link: http://www.anandtech.com/show/7214/xeon-e52600-v2-price-list-server-ivy-bridgeep

Top end 12 core chip is a cool $3k.

 

[Dulcimer]

The new Intel Xeon processors cost around $1000 to $2000. That's just the processor. Take into account the faster RAM, Thunderbolt 2, new case design and system, graphics cards, AND the fact that this is being manufactured in the USA, I wouldn't be surprised if the base cost was $3500 or $4000.

 

[-hh]

following that same history though, you'll see that all the software came around eventually (or went out of business)

Right...but it is a question of the timeline: WHEN do I need to buy the new hardware relative to when the complimentary software will also be available for me to reap the benefit?

The bigger the schedule disconnect is between the two, the more that the first-to-move (we're assuming hardware here) is going to suffer in near-term product sales.

and i'm not convinced that developers need compelling business cases in order to improve their applications.. half those people are straight geek and do it for the love (for lack of less cheesy word)

Anyone who is good at business has to watch the financial bottom line.

regardless.. i'd be interested in someone quoting a developer that has point blank said "no, we will not be pursuing gpu optimization" (or whatever)..

"Never Say Never". Doesn't matter what the topic of discussion is.

I really don't understand how you think such a configuration at $2499 might be possible? Did you see my comparison in post #133... what are your thoughts on that?

I'll have to go back and look, but I believe that you misinterpreted what I was trying to say.

My point was not that $2499 is not achievable ... I believe that it is, but the key question is what do you get for $2499?

A simple example of this is that a machine can be 'de-contented' in terms of HDD, RAM, CPU, GPU...etc... in order to make it hit a certain price point - - but that doesn't make it a good value.

For a notional example, consider a Mac with 128GB SSD, 2GB RAM, 2GHz CPU w/2 cores, GPU with 256MB VRAM ... few people would agree that that sounds like a good value in 2013 if its MSRP was $2499. On the other hand, if we pump up those same metrics to the high side, the same folks would say that it is a great bargain.



{EDIT: Deletion of text from vRain which wasn't attributed, nor was commented on (just an editing failure on my part)}

My question (not just to you, but everyone here)... Where, besides wishful thinking, is the evidence for a price decrease?

Personally, I have no evidence whatsoever either way. I'm just making a generalized observation that whatever the nMP ends up being (hardware-wise) and at whatever price point, the generic "Informed Consumer" is going to make a 'Value' determination. Regardless of what we (or Apple) believes is fair, they're going to use both contemporary alternatives as well as historical products in their Value determination assessment.


-hh

 

[WardC]

The way I see it, Apple is trying to tap more into the prosumer market with this machine. In essence, it is a Pro-Mini and not a true Mac Pro because it's vastly lacking the internal expandability options. I would not be surprised if the processor chip is soldered on the board along with the SSD. That said, this is a professional power machine that will likely be priced in the more affordable range than the previous models. I am guessing there will be TWO standard models, an 8-Core, and a 12-Core, both dual processor models...In this instance, Apple will not offer a quad or a 6-core. $2299 is what I am looking at for the 8-core, and $2999 for the 12-core, with a $3499 option for faster processors on the 12-core. Again, I don't have much solid material to go by, so this is all a bit theoretical pricing it out.