2016 nMP

[goMac]

These have independent ports - probably each T-Bolt port connects to a PCIe controller and a PCIe storage controller.

Not IP, no communication between the host systems.


Doesn't look like it - it still looks like IP over T-Bolt is for two systems.

It is IP so you could build a Thunderbolt router that routes packets (which I don't think exists, but it is possible.) You could also just take a Mac Pro and basically use it as an expensive Thunderbolt router. Bridge the ports in software so that packets can get routed. IP over Thunderbolt isn't special. You could even IP over Thunderbolt onto a standard ethernet network if for some reason you didn't just use an ethernet cable.

IP over Thunderbolt hands out IP addresses just like ethernet so you can resolve anything else with an IP address. Just a matter of having a router that can route packets coming in over Thunderbolt.

 

[rockyromero]

Interesting. I've dug deeper into the specs of TB, and what you are talking about. It looks like the only thing that not allows more than 2 computers(Mac's) to be connected through TB2 is... software, more than hardware.

Just so I'm understanding this.

It's possible to connect (2) Mac Pro with TB cable and share only each other's Mac storage as needed?

Not sharing the memory or processor, just the disk storage?

 

[AidenShaw]

I can not define for you technically how this works, I do know that the accusystem does allow for shared storage for multiple systems(4) with proprietary software that allows access to the storage, so systems can read and write media at constant speeds. This has only been possible with SAN/or other 10gb(TB to 10gbe) options before. These systems are new, and as far as I know only a few months old. I have put in place many 10 gbe over thunderbolt solutions for movies I have produced, the new products allow for more users strictly over TB at constant speeds.

Accusystem uses Xsan for the metadata control, so it is essentially a SAN product.

Imagine that you had a Fibre Channel SAN array, a Fibre Channel switch, and four MP6,1 systems.

You could put a T-Bolt to Fibre Channel dongle on each, run the four fibres to the switch, connect the FC SAN array to the switch, install Xsan, and go.

With the Accusys, you connect the four T-Bolt cables to their box, install Xsan, and go. They've just moved the four dongles and the switch (and the related complexity) inside their box.

Actually a very impressive solution for shared storage for very small workgroups - but completely irrelevant to koyoot's holy grail of HSA and future coherent fabrics that let your Apple Watch be part of the rendering farm.
[doublepost=1464137439][/doublepost]

It is IP so you could build a Thunderbolt router that routes packets (which I don't think exists, but it is possible.) You could also just take a Mac Pro and basically use it as an expensive Thunderbolt router. Bridge the ports in software so that packets can get routed. IP over Thunderbolt isn't special. You could even IP over Thunderbolt onto a standard ethernet network if for some reason you didn't just use an ethernet cable.

IP over Thunderbolt hands out IP addresses just like ethernet so you can resolve anything else with an IP address. Just a matter of having a router that can route packets coming in over Thunderbolt.

Software is magical, and can make many things possible that once seemed like dreams.

I'm not stating that some things are impossible some time in the future, I'm talking about what you can do today or tomorrow. (And not some distant "tomorrow", I'm typing this late Tuesday afternoon, and I'm talking about what you can do Wednesday morning.)

You have some interesting ideas, but those devices don't exist and I can't use them tomorrow. koyoot talks about cache-coherent fabric interconnects like they were released the end of last week - but at best they are three or four years in the future and may never happen.

"Possible" doesn't bring in billable hours.

But to your specific points:

"It is IP"
It is SAN, not IP.

"IP over Thunderbolt hands out IP addresses just like Ethernet"
Ethernet does not hand out IP addresses, period. Extreme confusion here.

In any event, all current IP over T-Bolt implementations are point-to-point between two systems.

If you want to go faster than the 16 year-old GbE ports in the MP6,1, you have two choices. T-Bolt between two systems, or buy a T-Bolt to 10 GbE dongle for each system and connect to your 10 GbE switch.

 

[Mago]

These have independent ports - probably each T-Bolt port connects to a PCIe controller and a PCIe storage controller.

Not IP, no communication between the host systems.


Doesn't look like it - it still looks like IP over T-Bolt is for two systems.

As long it's seen as a Network connection Only thing that restrict you to connect multiple PC thru Thunderbolts its as Koyot said, its software, or actually software configuration, while inst nothing I've tried on macs (I'm happy on two macs connected thru TB) its something familiar on HPC specially those running Mellanox cards, you can configure a MESH by interconnecting in the right topography each of the nodes on a cluster among them without actual need for an Switch, its just requires a bit of IPTables and a competent *nix network manager.

In case of the Mac, you'll use a different TB port on each pair of macs interconnected, TB3 even has a 10GbT MAC
[doublepost=1464142887][/doublepost]

Just so I'm understanding this.

It's possible to connect (2) Mac Pro with TB cable and share only each other's Mac storage as needed?

Not sharing the memory or processor, just the disk storage?

Yes and No, when you connect 2 macs Thru TB2 you have either option for Target mode (non-retina iMac) which allow you to use the embedded display as display for your mac, or as Target Disk, enabling your Mac as a über HDD encolure, and the other option is to use the Thunderblt cable as a 10/20 GBps LAN connection w/o switch see http://www.macworld.com/article/2142073/connecting-two-macs-using-thunderbolt.html
Then is like any network, you can share storage, printers, etc.

In near future this feature should receive some improvements as to enable you (if your target is a macbook) to use your macbook pro as Display/Keyboard/touchpad/USB hub for your Mac Pro.

 

[flat five]

Apparently you do, or you wouldn't bring it up.

The Old MacPro wasn't strictly a Final Cut Machine, it was a versatile workhorse, the nMP, not so much.

based on what though? i swear most of you all that don't like the 6,1 just don't like how it looks, physically.. (while in the same breath like to say "it doesn't matter how a workstation looks.. jony Ive is st00pid")

let me hide a 5,1 and a 6,1 in a closet.. you sit at monitors connected to each and do whatever it is you use computers for.

are you going to be able to tell me which one is which? if you experience one as being faster than the other, which one will it likely be?

(the blind taste test question- nobody ever answers this but maybe you will.. or maybe just use the typical answer of 'that's a stupid test.. also, nmp doesn't have room for 5 hard drives inside of it')

 

[hollyhillbilly]

As long it's seen as a Network connection Only thing that restrict you to connect multiple PC thru Thunderbolts its as Koyot said, its software, or actually software configuration, while inst nothing I've tried on macs (I'm happy on two macs connected thru TB) its something familiar on HPC specially those running Mellanox cards, you can configure a MESH by interconnecting in the right topography each of the nodes on a cluster among them without actual need for an Switch, its just requires a bit of IPTables and a competent *nix network manager.

In case of the Mac, you'll use a different TB port on each pair of macs interconnected, TB3 even has a 10GbT MAC
[doublepost=1464142887][/doublepost]

Yes and No, when you connect 2 macs Thru TB2 you have either option for Target mode (non-retina iMac) which allow you to use the embedded display as display for your mac, the other option is to use the Thunderblt cable as a 10/20 GBps LAN connection w/o switch see http://www.macworld.com/article/2142073/connecting-two-macs-using-thunderbolt.html
Then is like any network, you can share storage, printers, etc.

In near future this feature should receive some improvements as to enable you (if your target is a macbook) to use your macbook pro as Display/Keyboard/touchpad/USB hub for your Mac Pro.

This is how the share systems were explained to me, Accusys has some "Secret Sauce" that allows for TB shared storage over more than two systems. I do not have any knowledge of the finer details on how these systems really work.

The systems I have used for post on features, the consultant assigned IP address to each Mac, and was IP over thunderbolt. We had a mac mini as the data controller and we did use mac OS X to control, If that means anything to the discussion.

 

[tralfaz]

Apple describes Swift as "the first industrial-quality systems programming language that is as expressive and enjoyable as a scripting language." To also quote Stephen Canon, "If Swift is to be a systems language someday, then we also need to be able to write (parts of) Accelerate in Swift." So yes, there is a chance that core frameworks of OS X will be re-written in Swift someday.

Do you believe every bit of marketing hype you read? They can call it whatever they wan't, but that doesn't make it so. There are already scores of system services and libraries written in Obj-C, and Swift seems speedier than Obj-C in general without as much cruft. So if they convert those to Swift it will probably be a speed win. But its not likely to happen any time soon. New services maybe written in Swift, but existing services are not likely to change until all the Obj-C API's have been deprecated for years. Even the Obj-C Foundation classes are just a thin wrapper around the C based Foundation library. I haven't looked at it in a while but Swift allows you to integrate with C libraries does it not? If you need real speed there is always C.

Since Swift is still in its infancy now is going to be the only chance to get rid of ugly design choices like the loop you mentioned. Otherwise once the language builds up enough inertia there's almost no hope of ever jettisoning legacy garbage. Then you end up with the abomination that is C++.
[doublepost=1464146871][/doublepost]

No I was thinking of Python and the (IMO) stupidity of making whitespace significant.

Make blocks syntactically delimited, not some weird thing where you have to count the number of leading spaces to read the code.

http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?PythonWhiteSpaceDiscussion

Yes this old saw. If I can learn to deal with it, and in fact even appreciate it, anyone can if they are sticklers for properly indenting there code no matter the language. This is coming from someone who finally escaped pounding out FORTRAN after 5 long years. At which point I told myself if I ever see another language with significant white space again I'll shoot myself. Than this co-worker told me about this super nifty language called Python, and that I should check it out.

I read as far as the white space is significant, and told the guy you have to be kidding. And I told myself no need to look any further. It wasn't until I needed create some system utilities that required some significant text processing, and doing it in C/C++ seemed not worth it, and I by then I had built a visceral distaste for Perl.

So I decided to give Python a try. When I was done, I had learned two things. One was, good grief that was easy! And the other was, I hardly wrote any code! Using a proper editor with a decent python mode makes the white space a non issue. And in over 15 years of writing python I can count the bugs due improper indentation on one hand. Certainly no more than the bugs I've created with missing, or improperly balanced braces.

 

[flat five]

So I decided to give Python a try. When I was done, I had learned two things. One was, good grief that was easy! And the other was, I hardly wrote any code! Using a proper editor with a decent python mode makes the white space a non issue. And in over 15 years of writing python I can count the bugs due improper indentation on one hand. Certainly no more than the bugs I've created with missing, or improperly balanced braces.

i don't have experience with other languages but idk, i like the indents and formatting of python.. it makes it easy to read other people's code or older stuff you've written while being lazy on the notes .. or, it makes the basic outline of what's happening clear. (functions, going to the loop, if-thens, etc)

maybe this happens in other languages as well but if so, then good for the other languages using space in a similar fashion.

 

[ShadovvMoon]

They can call it whatever they wan't, but that doesn't make it so.

It's not there yet, but Swift has the potential to become a systems language one day. It won't be as fast as C/C++ but it could be pretty damn close.

Find me a Java program that isn't a memory hog, or a Python program that doesn't run like a snail. Lazy programmers who are fat with CPU cycles and RAM care nothing about optimisation. Python is wonderful for automation, small scripts and prototyping, but anything beyond that just results in slow junky programs that use a tonne of resources simply because the programmer couldn't be bothered putting in a little more effort.

A person using my program doesn't give a crap about what the code looks like, but it's another story when something is 40x slower.

 

[Melodist]

It's not there yet, but Swift has the potential to become a systems language one day. It won't be as fast as C/C++ but it could be pretty damn close.

Find me a Java program that isn't a memory hog, or a Python program that doesn't run like a snail. Lazy programmers who are fat with CPU cycles and RAM care nothing about optimisation. Python is wonderful for automation, small scripts and prototyping, but anything beyond that just results in slow junky programs that use a tonne of resources simply because the programmer couldn't be bothered putting in a little more effort.

Well look at Flash, same applies here.

 

[Peace]

Blizzard Entertainment is using Swift and Metal for the new version of World of Warcraft.

 

[Larry-K]

based on what though? i swear most of you all that don't like the 6,1 just don't like how it looks, physically.. (while in the same breath like to say "it doesn't matter how a workstation looks.. jony Ive is st00pid")

let me hide a 5,1 and a 6,1 in a closet.. you sit at monitors connected to each and do whatever it is you use computers for.

are you going to be able to tell me which one is which? if you experience one as being faster than the other, which one will it likely be?

(the blind taste test question- nobody ever answers this but maybe you will.. or maybe just use the typical answer of 'that's a stupid test.. also, nmp doesn't have room for 5 hard drives inside of it')

Why are you even in this discussion?

You're still sporting a 1.1, and readily admit your biggest file of the year is around 250 Megs, so there's really no reason you would ever need a workstation. I crank out bigger files than that before my second sip of coffee in the morning, my Quad Mini would be overkill for your work.

You really think I wouldn't know the difference? I might notice the loss of 12TB of on line storage, I know I'd notice the extra $5K I tossed in the closet for the 6,1, and I know I'd notice the GPU performance, because I have a piece of software I use everyday that can't even run properly on a 6,1.

I'd also notice the single core performance difference because a co-worker has a 12-core nMP, and he does nothing but gripe about it, he misses his oMP, and it wasn't even as fast as mine.

So, you feel free to finally upgrade your 1,1 any way you like, for whatever you do, by putting a 5,1 and 6,1 in your closet, but until Apple comes up with something better, not smaller, pricier, or cuter, I'm keeping my 5,1s on my desk where they earn their keep everyday.

 

[ManuelGomes]

http://wccftech.com/arm-teams-amd-ibm-tackle-datacentre-market-mobile-giants-joined-squad/

IBM already has NVLink with NVidia.
What now? With AMD?

 

[koyoot]

http://wccftech.com/arm-teams-amd-ibm-tackle-datacentre-market-mobile-giants-joined-squad/

IBM already has NVLink with NVidia.
What now? With AMD?

Apple is somewhat connected with those three companies: ARM, AMD, IBM. All of them listed above support HSA 2.0 and future iterations of it. I suppose this whole idea is for HSA 3.0.

In another news: Broadwell-E releases May 31st. So lets hope EP versions of those CPUs will be on sale also.

 

[Mago]

Do you believe every bit of marketing hype you read? They can call it whatever they wan't, but that doesn't make it so. There are already scores of system services and libraries written in Obj-C, and Swift seems speedier than Obj-C in general without as much cruft. So if they convert those to Swift it will probably be a speed win. But its not likely to happen any time soon. New services maybe written in Swift, but existing services are not likely to change until all the Obj-C API's have been deprecated for years. Even the Obj-C Foundation classes are just a thin wrapper around the C based Foundation library. I haven't looked at it in a while but Swift allows you to integrate with C libraries does it not? If you need real speed there is always C.

Since Swift is still in its infancy now is going to be the only chance to get rid of ugly design choices like the loop you mentioned. Otherwise once the language builds up enough inertia there's almost no hope of ever jettisoning legacy garbage. Then you end up with the abomination that is C++.
[doublepost=1464146871][/doublepost]

Yes this old saw. If I can learn to deal with it, and in fact even appreciate it, anyone can if they are sticklers for properly indenting there code no matter the language. This is coming from someone who finally escaped pounding out FORTRAN after 5 long years. At which point I told myself if I ever see another language with significant white space again I'll shoot myself. Than this co-worker told me about this super nifty language called Python, and that I should check it out.

I read as far as the white space is significant, and told the guy you have to be kidding. And I told myself no need to look any further. It wasn't until I needed create some system utilities that required some significant text processing, and doing it in C/C++ seemed not worth it, and I by then I had built a visceral distaste for Perl.

So I decided to give Python a try. When I was done, I had learned two things. One was, good grief that was easy! And the other was, I hardly wrote any code! Using a proper editor with a decent python mode makes the white space a non issue. And in over 15 years of writing python I can count the bugs due improper indentation on one hand. Certainly no more than the bugs I've created with missing, or improperly balanced braces.

I share your feelings on FORTRAN, last time I write code for it was the last theoretical exam for Fortran at the College, never again.

For Python I understand the mess with white space, I suggest you use Pycharm IDE its free edition (later if you want go deeper they have pro/enterprise editions with lot of extras), when using PyCharm switch from whitespace indent to tab indent at its settings, it makes the code much more clearer, also use some theme that marks whitespaces and tabs, also Pycharm has functions to convert whitespaces to tabs, etc, I get it quickly.

Later as you goo deeper on Python, explore Pypy (python compiler), and take your time on learning to use NumPy / SciPy very important for HPC, as PyCuda, PyOpenCL.

Python is very powerful for Math analysis, as for complex data manipulation and/or analysis (rivals with R), despite being a 'scripting' language there are ways to compile it into code that runs near 95% as fast as the same algorithm in C++.

 

[koyoot]

And as if for what we have been discussing everything was not enough, another shoe just have dropped for the use of that idea...

http://semiaccurate.com/2016/05/25/amds-firepro-s7100x-hardware-virtualized/

 

[Zarniwoop]

So, when studying these technologies we've discussed here, it could be that Apples' goal is to sell Pro users iMac Pro (or MBP) to start with and those who need more power they'll sell the tube Mac Pro to connect it to iMac- / MB Pro and they become one machine. And if that is still not enough, you could buy iCloud Pro HPC services to do your tasks with +100 teraflop speed. Ready built in toall Apples' Pro apps + those who use the API.

 

[rockyromero]

So, when studying these technologies we've discussed here, it could be that Apples' goal is to sell Pro users iMac Pro (or MBP) to start with and those who need more power they'll sell the tube Mac Pro to connect it to iMac- / MB Pro and they become one machine. And if that is still not enough, you could buy iCloud Pro HPC services to do your tasks with +100 teraflop speed. Ready built in toall Apples' Pro apps + those who use the API.

I'm ok with that.

It seems to be incremental growth.

At some future point, software will tie it all in more seamlessly.

It describes the rest of the Apple ecosystem.

 

[koyoot]

So, when studying these technologies we've discussed here, it could be that Apples' goal is to sell Pro users iMac Pro (or MBP) to start with and those who need more power they'll sell the tube Mac Pro to connect it to iMac- / MB Pro and they become one machine. And if that is still not enough, you could buy iCloud Pro HPC services to do your tasks with +100 teraflop speed. Ready built in toall Apples' Pro apps + those who use the API.

Not exactly. Cloud in essence will be combined from ALL your computation devices. Its how software will manage their capabilities. For example, if you combine 4 Mac Pros into one big cluster iPad Pro can be input device for it. You could combine also Macbook with Mac Pro, so Macbook will serve as display for for MP. Possibilities are endless, and are completely unimaginable at this point. People don't get exactly how Internet of Things will look like, exactly for that reason. There is just too many possibilities. Even those which I described in this post are absolutely the simplest ones that come to mind, and are mostly possible today. But overall Internet of Things and HSA is maybe best implementation of Apple's philosophy on hardware: "How it works is most important". And adding computers into cluster on the go, and with Plug-and-play style is one of those ideas.

 

[Zarniwoop]

Yes. Internet of Things. Apple could have several roadmaps for this; Pro features for computational needs, and Consumer features like HomeKit, VR and iCar...

I think Metal is the core ingredient to make it happen.

 

[ITguy2016]

Just so I'm understanding this.

It's possible to connect (2) Mac Pro with TB cable and share only each other's Mac storage as needed?

Not sharing the memory or processor, just the disk storage?

From reading your previous posts it appears you're asking for something along the lines of what SGI had done with their Origin line of systems:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SGI_Origin_3000_and_Onyx_3000

It's my opinion if Apple hasn't updated the nMP with the latest technology they're not going expend the effort to develop a single image system.

 

[MacVidCards]

I feel like I'm on the "Magical World of Tomorrow" ride at Disney.

Who has been doling out the unicorn tea and why didn't I get any?

 

[s-hatland]

I feel like I'm on the "Magical World of Tomorrow" ride at Disney.

Who has been doling out the unicorn tea and why didn't I get any?

i, for one, am enjoying this ride and all of it's world of tomorrow discussion, no matter how outlandish or unrealistic. i didn't even need any unicorn tea to keep my mind open, and that's really what it's about. what are we supposed to talk about? the past? classic mac pros?

i say carry on with the idealism and romance. never hurt anyone.

 

[tuxon86]

i, for one, am enjoying this ride and all of it's world of tomorrow discussion, no matter how outlandish or unrealistic. i didn't even need any unicorn tea to keep my mind open, and that's really what it's about. what are we supposed to talk about? the past? classic mac pros?

i say carry on with the idealism and romance. never hurt anyone.

Well I'm putting my foot down at non-contact sex like in the movie "Demolition Man"....

 

[s-hatland]

Well I'm putting my foot down at non-contact sex like in the movie "Demolition Man"....

haha - don't knock it till you try it!

currently, though, i think the mac pro is a LONG ways off from that...