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2016 nMP
- Thread starter ManuelGomes
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Well its hard to think that they will grow if ONLY new hardware Apple offered is iMac and Macbook, and Mac Mini, Macbook Pro and Air and Mac Pro, which are arguably most popular Macs are stagnating in terms of hardware.
If Apple would like to update their computers more often they would enjoy much bigger growth in Mac Sales.
Exactly. Everyone I know who is in the least computer savvy is holding off on buying a new Macbook Pro or Mac Pro until Apple updates their lineup.
I think you guys should defer to the PC Pros as to what TB3 can or can not do.
Since they have the only machines TB3 capable, they should already know.
Did you guys notice the successful use of a DP 1.2 adapter to HDMI 2.0 on OSX? Apple could incorporate that tech even with the crusty AMDs they are using now and greatly broaden the usefulness of Macs.
Nobody likes to talk about it but by FAR rhe broadest adoption of 4K is with TVs, and they are 99% HDMI.
So far only Windows machines could run these at 60Hz, rather embarrassing. This new adapter opens up some doors.
So if the consensus is that 7,1 has been held up due to GPU tech (or lack thereof), isn't it unfortunate that they are integral? It would also seem that TB3 requiring display signal is a major hold up, whereas USB-C might already be shipping on 7,1 if not for this requirement.
Since they have the only machines TB3 capable, they should already know.
Did you guys notice the successful use of a DP 1.2 adapter to HDMI 2.0 on OSX? Apple could incorporate that tech even with the crusty AMDs they are using now and greatly broaden the usefulness of Macs.
Nobody likes to talk about it but by FAR rhe broadest adoption of 4K is with TVs, and they are 99% HDMI.
So far only Windows machines could run these at 60Hz, rather embarrassing. This new adapter opens up some doors.
So if the consensus is that 7,1 has been held up due to GPU tech (or lack thereof), isn't it unfortunate that they are integral? It would also seem that TB3 requiring display signal is a major hold up, whereas USB-C might already be shipping on 7,1 if not for this requirement.
Actually the bbc reported flat sales of iPhones today. The Chinese have cut back on their need for new iPhone as their economy is struggling lately...
I differ you, the nnMP 7.1 main delaying factor is the cpu/chipset platform just one name: Intel, it's well known how delayed are Xeon E5v4 about 9 months from schedule (or reschedule), also the Thunderbolt platform chip was delayed about the same (Intel put it on hold until Skylake was ready).
In the other hand AMD is delivering it's fury chips from 8 months ago ( last year was speculated the nnMP to have Fiji based GPUs, now rumours point to another newer family more powerful).
The issue related to displayport 1.3 only exists on few speculators betting on NO nnMP.
TB3 is already available on Z170 equipped motherboard. It would be trivial to make it available on new MP also.
I believe Apple would definitely asks Intel to do some special tweak and make their own Apple Thunderbolt 3.
...and Apple will say "our few remaining pro customers can wait" when Intel shows Apple the price.
...and Apple will say "our few remaining pro customers can wait" when Intel shows Apple the price.
DOH....and Tim will steps out then yells at Intel...
[doublepost=1453856982][/doublepost]by the way, for those who really are crazy about thunderbolt, here is the breakdown of thunderbolt device cost, you will probably know how much you will be paying for thunderbolt 3, lol
http://crazydiamondstar.blogspot.com/2016/01/the-rough-cost-of-making-Thunderbolt-device.html
Two things:
My desktop is on 358 and I don't have problems with my 960.
Second my distro doesn't support AMD at all because they're bad and have been for about five years now. To top all that they're tied to a particular kernel and X so if one of those upgrades you're SOL.
AMD on Windows really is good for the most part even if they're not always complete. If I were on a Windows box I'd probably run AMD and freesync just to give nVidia the bird.
AMD has been teasing with dual Fiji card.
https://twitter.com/coloredrocks/status/691027556519317506/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc^tfw
According to them, Dual Fiji is delayed because VR-classes are late...
Is nnMP also waiting for VR-classes? Is that the next big thing to have nnMP? VR-content creation?
https://twitter.com/coloredrocks/status/691027556519317506/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc^tfw
According to them, Dual Fiji is delayed because VR-classes are late...
Is nnMP also waiting for VR-classes? Is that the next big thing to have nnMP? VR-content creation?
Skylake is shipping TODAY, and the Xeon CPUs are much quicker than that with many more cores.
AMD, CPU wise is currently dead in the water, and the only products they have that are looking to be in any way competitive are currently vapour.
By the time AMD ship their vapour, intel will have released their next generation Xeons and Kaby Lake. Thunderbolt for example is an Intel/Apple developed port.
AMD have nothing relevant in the notebook market, and Tim Cook being Tim Cook will no doubt be getting an extremely competitive deal from intel based on shipping intel across the entire product line.
Don't get me wrong, i hope AMD put out some good products and become competitive again. I think their GPUs are on the way there. But CPU-wise they're currently in a world of hurt, have been since the Core2 came out, and I'll believe they've got a competitive CPU out there when it actually ships, not before.
Bulldozer was meant to be all-conquering and look how that turned out.
More less what I'm saying, everything depends on what actually delivers ZEN, in case ZEN is an crap this also might pull out AMD from the GPU game on Macs since Apple can't compromise it's production to the output from an dying company, in case Zen simple it's 'good enough' it could be adopted only on iMac and Mini, Apple necessary should keep Intel on laptops and the Mac Pro. In case scenario Zen is a hit, Apple Will adopt it across the entire line and everybody happy.
AMD on cpu has high and low, but those are not actually a corporate culture, just the luck of people working at AMD (remember Jim Keller is the Zen original designer it's the same guy responsible of Apple Ax cpu line, and the x86-64, also the K8 from which that bulldozers are family), let's see what's was Keller legacy, I don't have God's on the earth so I'm curious if Keller delivered or of there is someone better than Keller just not yet famous.
On Intel, I see them sleeping, not delivering what they used to deliver the comfort gained at AMD expense don't help, on the long time there will be an big question on the cpu architecture, it's impossible to the x86 ever compete with ARM on efficiency, right now ARM's Cortex A72 are as fast as some Xeon cores just using 1/3 of the power in mid term the gap among ARM and x86 will be reduced to 0 and maybe ARM could beat x86, but that's not Intel's end while ARM efficiency can't be beaten actually isn't the most efficient architecture, this honor still belong to itanium ia64 you may think I'm wrong, but not while it's true itanium cpu are too powerful with regard power efficiency it's little known, and to date nothing interesting actually, but this is more due the lack of investment providing better power handling than due own ia64 architecture, ia64's SMT can compute 6x more than i7 at same clock speed on less transistor count, imagine properly updated and upgraded with advanced Powe saving features ia64 not only could deliver an much more powerful system but also one that uses less power than ARM.
Intel make an big wrong allowing hp to monopolize ia64 market, on Linux sever farms which are more less cpu platform agnostic is64 (properly modernized) could save a huge than ARM not to say x86.
Apple will not go for Zen unless it is competitive with massively superior to Kaby Lake (or better) in terms of power per watt in things like the Macbook, Macbook Pro, etc.
If apple run both AMD CPUs/Chipets and intel, it will double the amount of driver development they need to do for core system devices. The thunderbolt chips will be different, the task scheduler may need tweaks, etc.
It's just simply not worth the hassle in software development and testing - even if AMD put out a CPU that will get them good performance on the desktop.
In short, AMD need to do far more than put out a decent CPU to win Apple's business in that space. They need an entire range from 5 watt Macbook through to Xeon level CPU for the Mac Pro. I simply don't think they're likely to get there any time soon.
Any minor cost reduction AMD may be able to gain apple on CPUs in SOME of their devices will be more than eaten up by money lost to board re-designs and software development and testing.
If apple run both AMD CPUs/Chipets and intel, it will double the amount of driver development they need to do for core system devices. The thunderbolt chips will be different, the task scheduler may need tweaks, etc.
It's just simply not worth the hassle in software development and testing - even if AMD put out a CPU that will get them good performance on the desktop.
In short, AMD need to do far more than put out a decent CPU to win Apple's business in that space. They need an entire range from 5 watt Macbook through to Xeon level CPU for the Mac Pro. I simply don't think they're likely to get there any time soon.
Any minor cost reduction AMD may be able to gain apple on CPUs in SOME of their devices will be more than eaten up by money lost to board re-designs and software development and testing.
When Apple switched from nVidia to AMD they didn't care of those drawbacks (efficiency, driver development - actually done by amd - etc), that renders moot that argument.
Amd expect to grown to its Zen architecture to mobile applications too, on first stage their target is enthusiasts and high performance compute (servers, workstation supercomputers).
Of course that's AMD intention, could they?
It actually made me quite happy to see Mac sales are down. Given the state of the entire Mac lineup needing a refresh - if sales kept going up it would give them even less incentive to do something! It also made me quite happy to see that Mac sales now count for 9% of revenues which is on par with iPads. We might be be finally hitting critical mass for Apple to start paying attention again to what is actually quite a sizeable and strategically important business.
This is all in the context of iPhones forecasting their first overall significant decrease in sales coming up soon.
Hopefully all of this lights a fire under Apple to start hustling harder in their Mac business. There are significant parts of this market completely underserved by Apple that could be easily served with one or two new products e.g. a two series Mac Pro line (by bringing back a cMP alongside a nMP) and a high end gaming product to capture the VR market. The professional creative and high end gaming markets are two very important markets for the future of desktop usage - it would be utterly stupid to not throw some money at it (even if it's a total gamble) given the financial juggernaut Apple is today.
I'm hoping you're right but not particularly sanguine. Clearly Apple takes notice when revenue is impacted. Hopefully Apple's marketing/sales folks aren't totally attributing the slight Mac sales decline to currency fluctuations and a softer Chinese market. Haven't seen a public metric for Mac Pro units sold but I'm sure Apple knows what it is and presumably it declined given the age of the current product.
You make a good point so I checked that Mac sales are both down measured by unit and revenue by about the same %. So forex doesn't explain all of it. http://www.slashgear.com/apples-q1-2016-revenue-grows-while-mac-sales-slow-26424383/
I'd be interested also to see breakdown of Mac lines but I don't think there is any official data on that.
It's pretty clear what caused it: Apple is not immune from the global decline in desktop sales, which has been going on for years now. We're currently in the fifth consecutive quarter of decline. For 2015, global sales were down 8% YOY.
The real miracle is that Apple has been able to buck that trend more often than not.
[doublepost=1453948144][/doublepost]
If trends from the last few years hold, about 80% of Apple's Mac sales are laptops.
I see that, but is anyone selling a Thunderbolt 3 PCIE Expansion Chassis?
http://www.nvidia.com/download/driverResults.aspx/97765/en-us
I have few things I can share about upcoming GPUs.
Polaris 10 and 11 are designed to work with HBM and GDDR5(X) GPUs.
There is absolutely no chance for big GPU from AMD with HBM2 in first 2 quarters. Q3 is the earliest where we can look for it.
It will also be Vega10. Vega is completely from the ground up designed to work ONLY with HBM.
About Polaris. It is mix of old and future. It is not groundbreaking in terms of performance of the GPUs, but efficiency.
I do not know at this point however if big Polaris will use HBM1. On he architectural side: it will be pretty interesting to see how it works. There may be few surprises. Especially with minimal frame rates.
Dual FuryX2 is still in plans because there will be no single chip that will be faster than that dual GPU. And it is made from 2 Fury Nano's.
Polaris 10 and 11 are designed to work with HBM and GDDR5(X) GPUs.
There is absolutely no chance for big GPU from AMD with HBM2 in first 2 quarters. Q3 is the earliest where we can look for it.
It will also be Vega10. Vega is completely from the ground up designed to work ONLY with HBM.
About Polaris. It is mix of old and future. It is not groundbreaking in terms of performance of the GPUs, but efficiency.
I do not know at this point however if big Polaris will use HBM1. On he architectural side: it will be pretty interesting to see how it works. There may be few surprises. Especially with minimal frame rates.
Dual FuryX2 is still in plans because there will be no single chip that will be faster than that dual GPU. And it is made from 2 Fury Nano's.
Should be "there is no actual single chip that will be faster than that dual GPU".
Unless you have a crystal ball of course
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