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2016 nMP
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This thread morphed from discussion about MP2016 into discussion about technology for MP2016 and future of technology.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/10230...-openpower-hpc-server-with-power8-cpus-nvlink
Interesting read about the topic discussed here... Intel Xeon feels a bit more a game console chip than Power8 does. Same goes with AMD 's current calculators.. I wonder if Vega is going to compete against this or is Nvidia going to rule alone HPC terrain for next couple of years... it is still quite marginal market anyway... HPC at this level.
"A HPC node with eight such accelerators will have a peak 32-bit compute performance of 84.8 TFLOPS, whereas its 64-bit compute capability will be 42.4 TFLOPS. Just for comparison: NEC’s Earth Simulator supercomputer, which was the world’s most powerful system from June 2002 to June 2004, had a performance of 35.86 TFLOPS running the Linpack benchmark. The Earth Simulator consumed 20 kW of POWER, it consisted of 640 nodes with eight vector processors and 16 GB of memory at each node, for a total of 5120 CPUs and 10 TB of RAM. Thanks to Tesla P100, it is now possible to get performance of the Earth Simulator from just one 2U box."
Interesting read about the topic discussed here... Intel Xeon feels a bit more a game console chip than Power8 does. Same goes with AMD 's current calculators.. I wonder if Vega is going to compete against this or is Nvidia going to rule alone HPC terrain for next couple of years... it is still quite marginal market anyway... HPC at this level.
"A HPC node with eight such accelerators will have a peak 32-bit compute performance of 84.8 TFLOPS, whereas its 64-bit compute capability will be 42.4 TFLOPS. Just for comparison: NEC’s Earth Simulator supercomputer, which was the world’s most powerful system from June 2002 to June 2004, had a performance of 35.86 TFLOPS running the Linpack benchmark. The Earth Simulator consumed 20 kW of POWER, it consisted of 640 nodes with eight vector processors and 16 GB of memory at each node, for a total of 5120 CPUs and 10 TB of RAM. Thanks to Tesla P100, it is now possible to get performance of the Earth Simulator from just one 2U box."
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It consumed 6.4 mW of power - each of the 640 nodes was 10 kW....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Simulator
Yep. Electrical terminology is inconsistent "k" for "kilo", "M" for "mega", "m" for "milli".It would be a miracle if it consumed 6.4mW, I believe you meant 6.4MW
Hey, I'm the Typo king here, do you wanna my crown?Yep. Electrical terminology is inconsistent "k" for "kilo", "M" for "mega", "m" for "milli".
35 TFlop at 6.5 MW (and few millions dollars) to 40+ TFlop on 3KV for about 70 grand, it's more less the same grade of advancement I want from my next Mac Pro.
Videocardz says that R9 490X and 490 launches in june. And that they will be based on Polaris 10.
Interesting coincidence with WWDC...
Interesting coincidence with WWDC...
I'm kinda apprehensive with the lineup AMD has to offer. Something doesn't add up. To few options for a complete lineup, unless rebranding again will occur.
Having only high end cards in a year or so will be odd, without anything in the meantime. Polaris 10 will take care of the mid range, maybe Polaris 11 the low end. If Polaris 10 rivals Fury(X) in performance, it gets odd.
I'm also curious to see the actual Geforce Pascal, it could be very different than Tesla that nVidia was so eager to show off.
I must admit I have been more enthusiast than I am right now.
Still, it won't get worse than it is now, will it?
Having only high end cards in a year or so will be odd, without anything in the meantime. Polaris 10 will take care of the mid range, maybe Polaris 11 the low end. If Polaris 10 rivals Fury(X) in performance, it gets odd.
I'm also curious to see the actual Geforce Pascal, it could be very different than Tesla that nVidia was so eager to show off.
I must admit I have been more enthusiast than I am right now.
Still, it won't get worse than it is now, will it?
AMD seems to deliver Polaris 10 (bigger) and Polaris 11 (smaller) chips this June-July. If AMD keeps its old habits, there will be three versions of both of them. Pro, XT and XTX. Pro is not full chip and it is coupled with less memory. Maybe old fashion GDDR5. XT is a full chip, under-clocked, more memory and maybe GDDR5X. XTX is full chip with max speed and memory.
I am sure there will be rebranded chips in 400 series.
Most likely we will see just Polaris 10/11 Pro in June, the rest (XT,XTX) later
We could see rMBP with Polaris 11 same time with nMP with Polaris 10. And why Mac mini still uses Haswell CPU, when there has been a lot better Broadwell and Skylake options available for some time? My guess is, they're waiting for new displays, as are nMP v2. And new displays need DP 1.3. And Polaris will bring that.
I am sure there will be rebranded chips in 400 series.
- Maybe R7 360 = R5 450X
- Polaris 11 = R7 460
- Tonga = R9 470
- Polaris 10 Pro = 480X
- Polaris 10 XT = 490
- Polaris 10 XTX = 490X
- Dual GPU card = 495 series.
Most likely we will see just Polaris 10/11 Pro in June, the rest (XT,XTX) later
We could see rMBP with Polaris 11 same time with nMP with Polaris 10. And why Mac mini still uses Haswell CPU, when there has been a lot better Broadwell and Skylake options available for some time? My guess is, they're waiting for new displays, as are nMP v2. And new displays need DP 1.3. And Polaris will bring that.
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Workstations don't have such a fast pace as desktops. Still, it's too long indeed. But the available tech was not worthy of an upgrade, I guess. Even BDW-EP will be only a decent update in most cases, nothing revolutionary. Still, the latest available from Intel.
I wonder what CPUs will be inside the nnMP. If all are 2600, the freq optimized from 2637 (4 core) or 2643 (6 core). I'd settle for an 8 core 2667. Or, coming the 1600 (if ever), starting with the 1620 or whatever, which are considerably cheaper.
I wonder what CPUs will be inside the nnMP. If all are 2600, the freq optimized from 2637 (4 core) or 2643 (6 core). I'd settle for an 8 core 2667. Or, coming the 1600 (if ever), starting with the 1620 or whatever, which are considerably cheaper.
Maybe because they've painted themselves into a corner with an inflexible design?
That lineup seems ok. But since integrated graphics are quite fast these days, maybe both camps will drop the low end GPUs, and forget the older models. Start with a couple of Polaris 11 models, XT and Pro, and the remaining range is based on Polaris 10. And when Vega arrives it will be a new Fury line, or even Rage...
Polaris 10 with GDDR5X will be very near Fiji level already... with half the TDP.
Vega will be a new kind of beast.
I don't expect Polaris being too different from Fiji.
[doublepost=1460041283][/doublepost]I think we're putting the bar too high, let's hope there are no surprises.
[doublepost=1460041283][/doublepost]I think we're putting the bar too high, let's hope there are no surprises.
We already know that there will be only two versions of Polaris 10.
Polaris 11 will also have mobile appearance with two GPUs based on that ASIC.
Polaris 11 will also have mobile appearance with two GPUs based on that ASIC.
Some thoughts. This is not to bash Apple or attack or anything against anyone, just some observations from our daily work.
I wonder ...
Do we really want a new nMP from Apple? or Will there ever be a new one?
Nowadays it seems like an abandoned product...
Why do I say this? As you know the nMP may be a little old but is a very fine system for a plethora of uses. Anyway there is a big let down... Apple's support.
The nMP is promoted as a workstation, or alternatively a system for pro use, but in reality I think that we have experienced, as users, till today, a worrying lack of proper pro support because of the absence of needed firmware updates, especially now that their GPU firmware is slaved - embedded into the system's one.
It's 2016 and still there isn't available any proper support for 4K SST monitors ... no boot screen, no flawless integration etc...(our monitors are Eizo EV3237 released in 2014, but t's not limited to them because most of 4K SST monitors users have similar or even worst experiences).
How difficult could be to just release a firmware update to fix the various GPU's problems and provide a proper 4K support? Is it so hard to have a pure DP 1.2 signal while booting? why we have to wait till login screen to activate the monitor? Are the equivalent genuine FirePro cards having these issues? I don't think so...
So, what are our options? Why should we want a new nMP? Just for faster CPUs and GPUs? Where is the support?
They don't sell 4K - 5K monitors, they' re not supporting other monitors, they 're not supporting their precious hardware and of course they don't provide any after sales hardware upgrades(GPUs), so HOW will we do our job???
So I wonder if the lack of support, the lack of an update or any leaks about it (see what happens each time with the iOS devices leaks) are the signs that unfortunately the MacPro faces an end?
P.S. We have bought some time ago, for a complementary use, a Lenovo P500 with a Nvidia Quadro K2200 (not so high end card or system) and everything works out of the box with our 4K SST monitors, and this by paying half the price of a nMP.
I wonder ...
Do we really want a new nMP from Apple? or Will there ever be a new one?
Nowadays it seems like an abandoned product...
Why do I say this? As you know the nMP may be a little old but is a very fine system for a plethora of uses. Anyway there is a big let down... Apple's support.
The nMP is promoted as a workstation, or alternatively a system for pro use, but in reality I think that we have experienced, as users, till today, a worrying lack of proper pro support because of the absence of needed firmware updates, especially now that their GPU firmware is slaved - embedded into the system's one.
It's 2016 and still there isn't available any proper support for 4K SST monitors ... no boot screen, no flawless integration etc...(our monitors are Eizo EV3237 released in 2014, but t's not limited to them because most of 4K SST monitors users have similar or even worst experiences).
How difficult could be to just release a firmware update to fix the various GPU's problems and provide a proper 4K support? Is it so hard to have a pure DP 1.2 signal while booting? why we have to wait till login screen to activate the monitor? Are the equivalent genuine FirePro cards having these issues? I don't think so...
So, what are our options? Why should we want a new nMP? Just for faster CPUs and GPUs? Where is the support?
They don't sell 4K - 5K monitors, they' re not supporting other monitors, they 're not supporting their precious hardware and of course they don't provide any after sales hardware upgrades(GPUs), so HOW will we do our job???
So I wonder if the lack of support, the lack of an update or any leaks about it (see what happens each time with the iOS devices leaks) are the signs that unfortunately the MacPro faces an end?
P.S. We have bought some time ago, for a complementary use, a Lenovo P500 with a Nvidia Quadro K2200 (not so high end card or system) and everything works out of the box with our 4K SST monitors, and this by paying half the price of a nMP.
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http://ranker.sisoftware.net/show_r...e0d2e3d4e7d0e8cebc81b197f297aa9abccff2c2&l=en Polaris 10 that was used by AMD to demo Hitman DX12 in 1440p Ultra settings. FPS locked to 60 FPS. So minimums are higher.
R9 390X with 1050 MHz, and 2816 GCN cores is not able to average 60FPS(depending on site we see numbers between 55-59 FPS).
Now compare this: 2304 core GPU, clocked at 800 MHz is faster than 2816 core, 1050 MHz GPU. Looks like Mahigan was dead on right. Again.
R9 390X with 1050 MHz, and 2816 GCN cores is not able to average 60FPS(depending on site we see numbers between 55-59 FPS).
Now compare this: 2304 core GPU, clocked at 800 MHz is faster than 2816 core, 1050 MHz GPU. Looks like Mahigan was dead on right. Again.
Today I'm Johnny Ive or whoever is configuring the next gen Macs, I'll build the next retina MacBook 12/14/16 on Intel Skylake no dGPU and the next retina MacBook Pro on Xeon Skylake + Polaris 11 dGPU, then at year end or early next year the iMac on Zen APU with Polaris 10 and this year the next Mac Pro on Xeon E5v4 + nVidia Pascal, everybody is happy again.
http://www.computerworld.com/articl...pro-is-falling-far-behind-windows-rivals.html
looks like computer world is giving a little shout on mac pro.
looks like computer world is giving a little shout on mac pro.
It's not clear whether the Hitman card was the one that's in the result database.
And I'm not sure what to make of this result either. If you look at the Sisoft rankings, nothing makes sense.
Once again same arguments as we've discussed here before: specs are one thing, what you can do with it is second. "VR-is not working with MP" and same time "it is a niche-market."
SSD speed can be a problem, and that is clearly an area where nMP is behind. Support for 3rd party 4k monitors is second.. but that is a Mac wide problem, not just MP. Next nMP at WWDC is going to be a sad moment, when we say farewell to these discussion... at least for next 500 days. And then it starts again. Apple should rename nMP Halley's Comet.. a lot of enthusiasm when its coming followed by many generations silence.
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