2016 nMP

[ManuelGomes]

I see nVidia going OpenPower. They'll develop their own Power processor, and with NVLink they have a complete ecosystem. Only thing missing is OS support, and Linux will be their choice.
If Apple supports Power back, heck of a nMP in a few years.

 

[pat500000]

Once again same arguments as we've discussed here before: specs are one thing, what you can do with it is second. "VR-is not working with MP" and same time "it is a niche-market."

SSD speed can be a problem, and that is clearly an area where nMP is behind. Support for 3rd party 4k monitors is second.. but that is a Mac wide problem, not just MP. Next nMP at WWDC is going to be a sad moment, when we say farewell to these discussion... at least for next 500 days. And then it starts again. Apple should rename nMP Halley's Comet.. a lot of enthusiasm when its coming followed by many generations silence.

Looks like mp might be lost cause.

 

[ManuelGomes]

Those 2 Polais10 GPUs might not be the full fat chip, I'd say it has in total 3072 cores and some are unused at the moment. It could be due to yields at first, or to have an open possibility for a future bigger GPU, just in case NVidia has a better hand.
Rumors of NVidia Pascal gaming cards GP10x0 being in full production and to be presented at Computex.
Let's hope AMD also has something to show by then.

 

[filmak]

I don't know if this will happen but I have a thought that perhaps Apple's future line will not include a mac pro. Perhaps a new product glued in a screen like iMac but named only Mac?

their whole line could be macbook, iMac, Mac? or only Macbook and Mac? (with low end models like an iMac and a lot better - high end one replacing the pro?)
no minis, no airs, no separate monitors. Two lines, laptop and desktop, everything included. Suits their current business model.

Support for 3rd party 4k monitors is second..

Can you work without a monitor? if the SSD is super fast is it ok? blind mode? Just joking...

 

[koyoot]

Initial release for Polaris 11 was February, and for P10 was April, but was slipped for June.

Polaris 10 is supposed to offer performance for 4k HDR at 60 Hz.

Pascal GP104 paper launch at Computex and availability Q3. About GP100. Currently TSMC and Nvidia have production problems with interposer, and thermal behavior of it and the yield is not so good. That is why Nvidia decided to lock GP100 to 3584 CUDA cores, even if full chip can have 3840. Also that is the reason why we will see it only in Mezzanine form factor until Q1 2017. GP100 then can come as a Quadro GPU, in "normal" form factor . GP102 looks to be consumer product that will appear in Titan products. Also there is a lot to expect that until late 2016 we will not see any low to mid-end Pascal product.

There is quite a lot of story why all this is happening, and why Nvidia rushed with GP100. But it will be apparent in upcoming months...

 

[Zarniwoop]

http://mashable.com/2016/04/08/apple-patent-keyboard-keys/?#uKKp9NWRriqd

 

[AidenShaw]

Also that is the reason why we will see it only in Mezzanine form factor until Q1 2017. GP100 then can come as a Quadro GPU, in "normal" form factor . GP102 looks to be consumer product that will appear in Titan products.

More likely that GP100 will appear as a Tesla. You don't need display outputs in a rack server.

http://www.slideshare.net/NVIDIA/gtc-2016-opening-keynote​

 

[filmak]

http://mashable.com/2016/04/08/apple-patent-keyboard-keys/?#uKKp9NWRriqd

Interesting. Thanks for sharing.

 

[ManuelGomes]

I guess NVidia has been trying to be a step ahead, let's see if they can deliver.
[doublepost=1460129487][/doublepost]Public Beta OS X 10.11.5 out.

 

[JimmyPainter]

I wo

i would feel ashame.

You should be ashamed Pat ... LOL I don't know that I agree with everything Kayoot says but you and a few of the guys here really love to drag him and others around the playground ... /LMBO. As long as it's all in good fun i guess.
[doublepost=1460133731][/doublepost]

More likely that GP100 will appear as a Tesla. You don't need display outputs in a rack server.

View attachment 625778​

OK Aiden .... So ... all this just so you can hear your admirers say "Nice Rack Aiden?" ...LOL
[doublepost=1460133987][/doublepost]For anyone who's interested HP is reporting a new server with 2 Quadro 24Gig cards for VR content creation. Thats a whopping 48Gig just on the GPU. AMD Fans need not be left out in the cold either though with 2 Firepros at 32 Gig each thats 64 total. Looks like we all win even though I know that upsets a few of us ...LOL
[doublepost=1460134580][/doublepost]

Jesus Christ, whoever is in charge of the Mac Pro at Apple seems to spend years at a time asleep at the wheel.
Why is it so impossible to upgrade CPUs or Graphics cards periodically?

Agree with every single thing you said here but can you please be careful throwing names. Pretty sure he is not involved. How about Tim, or even Jonny, maybe even Aiden, Kayoot, or even Jimmy.
[doublepost=1460134919][/doublepost]

Maybe because they've painted themselves into a corner with an inflexible design?

Did you even Read what he said before you Grabbed up your nMP Flag ... LOL ... you guys are hilarious ... He said CPU and even said GPU. There is nothing about the design that says you can't go to POWER8 with 2 Low powered GeForce 1080's with 12 gig each. Be Real for once ... please.
[doublepost=1460135118][/doublepost]

Today I'm Johnny Ive or whoever is configuring the next gen Macs, I'll build the next retina MacBook 12/14/16 on Intel Skylake no dGPU and the next retina MacBook Pro on Xeon Skylake + Polaris 11 dGPU, then at year end or early next year the iMac on Zen APU with Polaris 10 and this year the next Mac Pro on Xeon E5v4 + nVidia Pascal, everybody is happy again.

Best Post so far .... LOL
[doublepost=1460136520][/doublepost]

Looks like mp might be lost cause.

Always possible especially when we have waited as long as we have but ... Until we are TOLD differently, its also very possible Apple is just waiting on some of the tech we and they are promised and have intentions to blow us away. This is why they really want to move away from dependance on these other companies. Power8 with GTX180s, Zeon v4 with Polaris, Zen with Polaris, .... How about Apple ARM 64 chip with it's own Imagination bought / based PowerVR GPU's. The Future IS Uncertain. Just be Glad there are options
[doublepost=1460136963][/doublepost]http://www.techradar.com/us/news/ph...-what-will-it-mean-for-iphone-gaming--1317575

 

[pat500000]

You should be ashamed Pat ... LOL I don't know that I agree with everything Kayoot says but you and a few of the guys here really love to drag him and others around the playground ... /LMBO. As long as it's all in good fun i guess.
[doublepost=1460133731][/doublepost]


OK Aiden .... So ... all this just so you can hear your admirers say "Nice Rack Aiden?" ...LOL
[doublepost=1460133987][/doublepost]For anyone who's interested HP is reporting a new server with 2 Quadro 24Gig cards for VR content creation. Thats a whopping 48Gig just on the GPU. AMD Fans need not be left out in the cold either though with 2 Firepros at 32 Gig each thats 64 total. Looks like we all win even though I know that upsets a few of us ...LOL
[doublepost=1460134580][/doublepost]

Agree with every single thing you said here but can you please be careful throwing names. Pretty sure he is not involved. How about Tim, or even Jonny, maybe even Aiden, Kayoot, or even Jimmy.
[doublepost=1460134919][/doublepost]

Did you even Read what he said before you Grabbed up your nMP Flag ... LOL ... you guys are hilarious ... He said CPU and even said GPU. There is nothing about the design that says you can't go to POWER8 with 2 Low powered GeForce 1080's with 12 gig each. Be Real for once ... please.
[doublepost=1460135118][/doublepost]


Best Post so far .... LOL
[doublepost=1460136520][/doublepost]

Always possible especially when we have waited as long as we have but ... Until we are TOLD differently, its also very possible Apple is just waiting on some of the tech we and they are promised and have intentions to blow us away. This is why they really want to move away from dependance on these other companies. Power8 with GTX180s, Zeon v4 with Polaris, Zen with Polaris, .... How about Apple ARM 64 chip with it's own Imagination bought / based PowerVR GPU's. The Future IS Uncertain. Just be Glad there are options
[doublepost=1460136963][/doublepost]http://www.techradar.com/us/news/ph...-what-will-it-mean-for-iphone-gaming--1317575

Lol it's all fun and game.

 

[koyoot]

GP104: 290-300 mm2.
Full chip: 3072 CUDA cores
Cut down: 2560 CUDA cores. Both with 8 GB GDDR5.

 

[Stacc]

Initial release for Polaris 11 was February, and for P10 was April, but was slipped for June.

These dates are just ones made up by rumors.

There is quite a lot of story why all this is happening, and why Nvidia rushed with GP100. But it will be apparent in upcoming months...

Saying GP100 is rushed isn't fair. Nvidia is delivering to customers a >600 mm2 16 nm chip. This is the biggest, most dense chip ever made, beating Intel's ~450 mm2 24 core Broadwell-EP chips (which have also been cut to 22 cores). Sure, Nvidia isn't delivering a workstation or gaming chip based on it for awhile, but they are shipping this to their very high paying HPC customers. It makes sense to tell people about it before you ship it and to prioritize your highest paying customers. It doesn't seem rushed at all. Its giving the people who are going to be developing for these HPCs some time to get their software ready.

I am looking forward to see how AMD's and Nvidia's consumer lines compare. We already know Nvidia can deliver a 600 mm2 compute monster. What will that look like in consumer form? How big will it be? What will be the ratio of single precision to dual precision?

AMD is a little more of an unknown at this point. We have lots of rumors, especially to those pointing to relatively small chips. Polaris 11 is rumored to be around 100 mm2 and Polaris 10 could be ~230 mm2. Are those the actual dimensions? If they are, a 230 mm2 AMD chip would likely be destroyed by a 300-400 mm2 Pascal based chip.

 

[Mago]

These dates are just ones made up by rumors.



Saying GP100 is rushed isn't fair. Nvidia is delivering to customers a >600 mm2 16 nm chip. This is the biggest, most dense chip ever made, beating Intel's ~450 mm2 24 core Broadwell-EP chips (which have also been cut to 22 cores). Sure, Nvidia isn't delivering a workstation or gaming chip based on it for awhile, but they are shipping this to their very high paying HPC customers. It makes sense to tell people about it before you ship it and to prioritize your highest paying customers. It doesn't seem rushed at all. Its giving the people who are going to be developing for these HPCs some time to get their software ready.

I am looking forward to see how AMD's and Nvidia's consumer lines compare. We already know Nvidia can deliver a 600 mm2 compute monster. What will that look like in consumer form? How big will it be? What will be the ratio of single precision to dual precision?

AMD is a little more of an unknown at this point. We have lots of rumors, especially to those pointing to relatively small chips. Polaris 11 is rumored to be around 100 mm2 and Polaris 10 could be ~230 mm2. Are those the actual dimensions? If they are, a 230 mm2 AMD chip would likely be destroyed by a 300-400 mm2 Pascal based chip.

Polaris is not in the same league as Pascal, this it's an error that will disappoint many people, Polaris wants lower cost and power for products like r9 380 and m380 with performance improvement enough for VR (as defined by occulus rift).

Pascal is tailored at high performance replacement (quadro Titan), while Polaris it's aimed to medium performance replacement (r9 380 non fury), next year is planned or programmed AMD new high performance chip supposed to be in the same league as Pascal and r9 FURY X.

 

[koyoot]

Polaris is not in the same league as Pascal, this it's an error that will disappoint many people, Polaris wants lower cost and power for products like r9 380 and m380 with performance improvement enough for VR (as defined by occulus rift).

Pascal is tailored at high performance replacement (quadro Titan), while Polaris it's aimed to medium performance replacement (r9 380 non fury), next year is planned or programmed AMD new high performance chip supposed to be in the same league as Pascal and r9 FURY X.

How do you know that? Is this your guess or expert analysis?

Just curious.

 

[Mago]

How do you know that? Is this your guess or expert analysis?

Just curious.

At wccftech.com there is an road map and platform analysis


If you want performance you need to wait for Vega at least

 

[Mago]

Just supporting what I previously stated Polaris 11 is the next Radeon 470 (neither 480) http://wccftech.com/amd-polaris-11-gpu-specifications-leaked-compubench/

 

[koyoot]

Then I suggest observing Anandtech Graphics forum. It will be hilarious to watch.

 

[ManuelGomes]

I kinda tend to agree with Mago here. I guess we're gonna be a little disappointed with the performance of Polaris, hope I'm wrong. Not that it should be that bad, but we're all hoping for a miracle performer and I guess it will be a good performer with great power envelope - aimed at perf/watt.
We'll see.

 

[Zarniwoop]

It seems that now is a bad time to buy a display card... or a Mac with dGPU. Not just perf/watt is going to improve, but perf/$ too. Both, with a great margin. The power of Fiji with the price of Tonga.

 

[Stacc]

Polaris is not in the same league as Pascal, this it's an error that will disappoint many people, Polaris wants lower cost and power for products like r9 380 and m380 with performance improvement enough for VR (as defined by occulus rift).

Pascal is tailored at high performance replacement (quadro Titan), while Polaris it's aimed to medium performance replacement (r9 380 non fury), next year is planned or programmed AMD new high performance chip supposed to be in the same league as Pascal and r9 FURY X.

Remember, we are talking about 2 unreleased products. This is all speculation. The rumors (and to some extent AMD itself) seem to point to more mainstream products from AMD. Nvidia has announced their HPC product but we know nothing about their consumer versions of Pascal.

Based on whats been rumored/announced, its probably safe to say that Polaris won't be in the same league as GP100. We don't how Polaris will compare to the consumer versions of Pascal.

It seems that now is a bad time to buy a display card... or a Mac with dGPU.

Right now is probably a bad time to buy any mac. Only the iMac has been updated in the last 10 months.

 

[ManuelGomes]

If nMP is coming any time soon (read before 2017), probably P11 with 1280 cores will be D310 (would they lower core count? Still, mem bus at 128b is a step down - reason why I doubt this) and P10Pro will be D510 and P10XT will be D710.
Unless of course apple goes NVidia this time around.
[doublepost=1460142054][/doublepost]One thing NVidia is tight lipped about is display output. DP1.3? HDR?

 

[koyoot]

Polaris is indeed not competing with GP100.

 

[Stacc]

If nMP is coming any time soon (read before 2017), probably P11 with 1280 cores will be D310 (would they lower core count? Still, mem bus at 128b is a step down - reason why I doubt this) and P10Pro will be D510 and P10XT will be D710.
Unless of course apple goes NVidia this time around.

This is a pretty good guess assuming Apple sticks with AMD. Basically no matter what the performance of Polaris 10 ends up being it should be a good step up from the D700.

One thing NVidia is tight lipped about is display output. DP1.3? HDR?

Remember that GP100/P100 has no display output. They are purely server compute cards. I am fairly confident any discrete GPU that comes out this year will support displayport 1.3.

 

[Mago]

If nMP is coming any time soon (read before 2017), probably P11 with 1280 cores will be D310 (would they lower core count? Still, mem bus at 128b is a step down - reason why I doubt this) and P10Pro will be D510 and P10XT will be D710.
Unless of course apple goes NVidia this time around.
[doublepost=1460142054][/doublepost]One thing NVidia is tight lipped about is display output. DP1.3? HDR?

As we where close to WWDC every day seems more likely at least for the Mac Pro a comeback to nVidia on Apple, I think also we could see Apple offering both AMD Polaris 10 Pro and XT at lowee end Mac Pro (as d300/d500 replacement) s and some nVidia Pascal (102/104) at Mac Pro higher end (as D700 replacement and option for those dependant on CUDA) .

It's curious that CUDA 8 which requires special kernel access having support from Apple in this requirement (to enable Pascal's unified memory) on OSX. I think this it's an cue on nVidia comeback to Apple, at least the Mac Pro.

While Apple should offer also nVidia as option to the iMac line too as alternative for those demanding Cuda due it's work flow.