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2016 nMP

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ManuelGomes said:
It's gonna be funny to see if they'll go in the lower end with the 4 core still, and even more so if they use the 1620 CPU, which is rated slower (clock speed wise , maybe not performance due to IPC improvements), but it's still a dialed down version when you look at the numbers. I'm pretty sure they will though, the price point matches the old one.
I'd go for the 1660 myself, looks good enough.
Still, they might use the 2600 series again for even the 8 core option, maybe they get to 14 cores this time around.
What really bothers me here is being stuck on the legacy C610 PCH.
Click to expand...

I wonder though if they will feel pressure to show improvements at the bottom end though.

The E5-1650 6 core went from 3.5 to 3.6 GHz
The E5-1660 8 core went from 3.0 to 3.2
If sticking with a 12 core 2600, they could go from 2.7 to 3.0, but it seems that 160W beast might not fit in the power envelope. So it could be maybe a 2.6 14-core, or a 2.3 18-core, or both?

Either way, all of those options appear to be a non-IPC improvement dependent upgrade. So is Apple going to be happy still offering a 4-core at 3.7, when they could offer a 6-core base, the bottom 8-core as the upgrade model, then BTOs with the top end 8 core, and at least one 2600 option as well?

I doubt it, but one can hope. Spending $3000 on a 4-core workstation, no matter what else is inside it, just seems silly in 2016...
 
ManuelGomes said:
Yeah, but those are exactly the things the nMP needs, right now, not a year from now.
And again, those 48 PCIe lanes are not PCIe4 but PCIe and only on the Purley platform, which might not come to the nMP.
We keep having this argument but Purley, according to Intel's roadmap, is only for 2S systems and up, not 1S as the nMP.
For 1S workstations, ad you will agree that the nMP is such a system, we will get the Basin Falls platform with Kaby Lake PCH, which should be similar to the soon to come 200 series on the desktop with 24 PCIe 3 lanes, which is of course very good. On the Apple ecosystem this means lots of free lanes (FlexIO slots) since SATA ports are not used.
This would be the ideal setup for the nMP but still a long time to go, and we don't know the max core count for the Basin Falls config.
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Worth you read http://www.kitguru.net/components/c...s-to-support-6tb-of-dram-use-3467-pin-socket/

Purley is Skylake-EP too, about pcie4 it's not 100% clear, as Intel is promoting it's own fabric C620 will provide Pcie 3 as C610 Provide Pcie 2 it's the only sure thing, don't exclude cpu having pcie 4 lines, AMD confirmed pci 4 on its next Zen platform, I think will not be alone for long time.
 
koyoot said:
6950X is 12 core CPU with 2 cores disabled. It is the same CPU as is 12 core Xeon E5v4 26XX model.
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The 6950X is probably a 10 core CPU with no cores disabled:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/10158/the-intel-xeon-e5-v4-review/2

There are 3 dies for Broadwell-E/EP:
10 core, 15 core, and 24 core.

The 4-10 core chips are coming from the 10 core die
The 12-14 core chips are coming from the 15 core die
The 16-22 core chips are coming from the 24 core die
 
jonisign said:
I think Apple will offer the following:
Xeon E5-1630 v4, 4 cores
Xeon E5-1650 v4, 6 cores
Xeon E5-1680 v4, 8 cores
Xeon E5-2690 v4, 14 cores
Xeon E5-2697A v4, 16 cores
Xeon E5-2697 v4, 18 cores
Xeon E5-2698 v4, 20 cores
Xeon E5-2699 v4, 22 cores

All of these fall below 145W TDP and offer the highest clock rate at each core count. 10-12 core options don't have an option around the 130-145W TDP target.
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I think Apple will restrict cpu TDP to 135W, in case they support 145w-160w They should restrict further the gpu TDP, as yet know the upcoming gpu range from 50W (amd polaris baffin) to 150W (amd polaris Elsmere XT or "nVidia GP104“) add about 40W from chipset and NVMe, and you have 340w from 400 that allows current thermal core, ok it's relatively easy to upgrade the termal core to 600W TDP (and Apple should do), unless they have specific plans it's more likely they will restrict to 110w gpu x2 + 135w cpu + 40w e.e. = 395W just below current thermal core, otherwise they could offer a 160W cpu on exchange to restrict gpu to 60W each, or dynamically throttle back cpu and gpu to keep things cool, which is undesirable on workstations where you want to crush process running at full power by hours or days also.
 
If they will go with Polaris they can use 100 or 125W thermal envelope. If they will go for Fiji - 150W is minimum, for each GPU. Going for Fiji they might be forced to increase PSU power to 500W, also. Combined GPUs and CPU in worst case scenario: (140W) - 440W power consumption, on average, not power gated. 60W less than PSU max. And we do not take into account the rest of the computer.

Currently GPUs have 129W thermal envelope, and 130W CPU. So it is 389W from 450W PSU. 61W difference.

Possible?
 
Apple may down clock the GPU until it fits inside the envelope. I thinks that's what they do to the D700 (which is effectively a down clocked 7970, right?). Therefore, their GPU choice is not that limiting by the PSU / thermal core.
 
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koyoot said:
If they will go with Polaris they can use 100 or 125W thermal envelope. If they will go for Fiji - 150W is minimum, for each GPU. Going for Fiji they might be forced to increase PSU power to 500W, also. Combined GPUs and CPU in worst case scenario: (140W) - 440W power consumption, on average, not power gated. 60W less than PSU max. And we do not take into account the rest of the computer.

Currently GPUs have 129W thermal envelope, and 130W CPU. So it is 389W from 450W PSU. 61W difference.

Possible?
Click to expand...
Or they go with Fiji and limit its thermal output by throthling as they are incline to do across all of their computing plateform presently.
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h9826790 said:
Apple may down clock the GPU until it fits inside the envelope. I thinks that's what they do to the D700 (which is effectively a down clocked 7970, right?). Therefore, their GPU choice is not that limiting by the PSU / thermal core.
Click to expand...

You beat me to it :)
 
koyoot said:
If they will go with Polaris they can use 100 or 125W thermal envelope. If they will go for Fiji - 150W is minimum, for each GPU. Going for Fiji they might be forced to increase PSU power to 500W, also. Combined GPUs and CPU in worst case scenario: (140W) - 440W power consumption, on average, not power gated. 60W less than PSU max. And we do not take into account the rest of the computer.

Currently GPUs have 129W thermal envelope, and 130W CPU. So it is 389W from 450W PSU. 61W difference.

Possible?
Click to expand...
According wccftech.com Polaris Elsmere XT will range from 100w upto 150w (I assume it's an overclocking headroom).

So I think the top working Elsmere XT on the nMP would be at 110-125w - > 250w gpu + 145w cpu (there is upto 160w E5v4) leaves you with 395W w/o chipset or NVMe (which requires cooling too), at minimum will require an uprated psu and faster spinning fan, actually not an challenge to fit a 550w psu in the trash can but certainly require an entirely new psu.
 
tuxon86 said:
Or they go with Fiji and limit its thermal output by throthling as they are incline to do across all of their computing plateform presently.

You beat me to it :)
Click to expand...
That was actually accounted ;). Fiji will not be able to handle any higher clocks than 850 MHz in that thermal envelope. As we can see in S9300X2 GPU ;).

Polaris is another story. If the die itself will be 100W they can even OC it.

Mago, I agree with that. There is also one more option. A bit radical. Water Cooling for Mac Pro.
 
Two things really worth Apple to upgrade on the next Mac Pro are precisely the psu (450W now) and the thermal core fan (more cfm would allow upto 500W total TDP w/o heatsink review and much more switching to copper).
 
koyoot said:
Mago, I agree with that. There is also one more option. A bit radical. Water Cooling for Mac Pro.
Click to expand...

It's more likely Apple begins a food service than they put liquid cooling on the trash can (or anything else), except it's something passive as the liquid cooling pipes on the latest smartphones, but I don't see the need for that.
 
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koyoot said:
That was actually accounted ;). Fiji will not be able to handle any higher clocks than 850 MHz in that thermal envelope. As we can see in S9300X2 GPU ;).

Polaris is another story. If the die itself will be 100W they can even OC it.

Mago, I agree with that. There is also one more option. A bit radical. Water Cooling for Mac Pro.
Click to expand...

Really no space in the nMP for water cooling.
 
so the cpu for a new Mac pro are there so what apple is waiting for? Gpu for the mac pro are out there or will be available soon? all the components are available for Apple update the Mac pro at WWDC?
 
Serban said:
so the cpu for a new Mac pro are there so what apple is waiting for? Gpu for the mac pro are out there or will be available soon? all the components are available for Apple update the Mac pro at WWDC?
Click to expand...

The new CPUs are not quite out yet. Xeon v4 1600 series, which will most likely make up potential 4, 6, 8 or 10 core configurations are rumored to be released in early June. Apple will use Xeon v4 2600 series CPUs for > 10 core configurations and those are already released. Next generation GPUs from AMD are rumored to be announced in early June. Given that all the new hardware should be out by WWDC hopefully we get an announcement then.
 
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hollyhillbilly said:
Apple made a presentation at NAB during the FCPExchange presentation. All those who were there signed an NDA for apple. Apparently there was significant news regarding FCPX. To my knowledge nobody is breaking the NDA. My feeling is FCPX and nMP go hand in hand and there will be a significant refresh for both at WWDC. You can read a cryptic post from the meeting here, https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/335/88480
Click to expand...

Told everyone Apple wasn't backing out of the pro market. Everyone scares so easy...

FCPX and the Mac Pro exist hand in hand. As long as FCPX exists, so will the Mac Pro. At least until notebooks or the iMac are just completely fast enough. If FCPX ceases to exist, the Mac Pro's future would get a bit dicey, but there is still a lot of active use in software developer, both in and out of Apple.
 
goMac said:
Told everyone Apple wasn't backing out of the pro market. Everyone scares so easy...

FCPX and the Mac Pro exist hand in hand. As long as FCPX exists, so will the Mac Pro. At least until notebooks or the iMac are just completely fast enough. If FCPX ceases to exist, the Mac Pro's future would get a bit dicey, but there is still a lot of active use in software developer, both in and out of Apple.
Click to expand...
Somehow I think that a "pro" ecosystem needs more than one app for making cat videos. (Oh, maybe wedding videos too.)

If anything, this is doomsday for the Mac Pro - the next FCPX appliance will be much weaker than today's offering.
 
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AidenShaw said:
Somehow I think that a "pro" ecosystem needs more than one app for making cat videos. (Oh, maybe wedding videos too.)

If anything, this is doomsday for the Mac Pro - the next FCPX appliance will be much weaker than today's offering.
Click to expand...

Whelp, if the next Mac Pro has Polaris and Broadwell, it's probably the final nail in the coffin of the cMP. You could configure a cMP with maybe similar GPUs with an external power supply, but you won't be able to match Broadwell in CPU power.
 
goMac said:
Whelp, if the next Mac Pro has Polaris and Broadwell, it's probably the final nail in the coffin of the cMP. You could configure a cMP with maybe similar GPUs with an external power supply, but you won't be able to match Broadwell in CPU power.
Click to expand...
If Polaris 11 and low end Broadwell - it's the nail in the coffin for the MP.

If GP104 and high core count Broadwell - there's still life in the MP.

If GP100 and high core count Broadwell - then Apple's back in the game.
 
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AidenShaw said:
If Polaris 11 and low end Broadwell - it's the nail in the coffin for the MP.

If GP104 and high core count Broadwell - there's still life in the MP.
Click to expand...


Don't count on this too early, Polaris Elsmere XT should be a 1.4-18 TFlop fp32 and about 1:4 upto 1:3 fp64 X2 still a very desirable MP.

While we can't discard GP104 It should be the 100W version with about the same performance fp32 as the Polaris but on 1:2 or 1:32 fp64 (depends on what wanna sell us nVidia a real Quadro or a GeForce)

With the assumption FCPX it's well optimized for it, the MP will be a hit in VR edit market, ok you'll see a bunch of VR videos of cats and others on idiots jumping from a 2nd floor...
 
AidenShaw said:
Somehow I think that a "pro" ecosystem needs more than one app for making cat videos. (Oh, maybe wedding videos too.)

If anything, this is doomsday for the Mac Pro - the next FCPX appliance will be much weaker than today's offering.
Click to expand...

So it's either cat videos or wedding videos for FCPX? Good to know, thanks.
 
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