2016 nMP

[Zarniwoop]

Current MP is built for max ~130W TDP components. CPU and GPUs.

Polaris 10 is (according to AMD propaganda + rumors) aimed for this perf/watt sweetspot.

Now, we don't know practically anything about GTX 1070. But I suppose that at 130W these guys are so even, Apple goes with the one that does GPGPU better.

What ever is chosen, the outcome is clear: GPU performance is going to increase with 2x on nMP.
[doublepost=1462660176][/doublepost]

Forni from Bits&Chips say it might come in Q4 of 2016.
http://www.bitsandchips.it/english/52-english-news/6620-rumor-nvidia-pascal-timeline

Is AMD going to release Polaris 11 along with 10? Or maybe later?
[doublepost=1462660897][/doublepost]About nMP v2 (vs current):

- Broadwell-EP brings around 15% direct performance increase, but if software is recompiled for it, there could be even 40% increase in performance
- Polaris 10 / GTX 1070 will bring double performance for GPGPU and graphics, that is 2x or 100% increase or...
- SSD x4 PCIE/M.2 can double or triple the SSD speed
- DDR4 ECC can deliver up to ~30% increase to memory bandwidth
- TB3 = double I/O speed for external devices
- USB type-c DP 1.3 with active cable brings HDR to displays
* USB type-c can deliver power up to 100W to an external device = display

I think it is quite possible, that we're going to see this machine introduced at WWDC. New displays... those we have to wait until autumn, to be released with macOS. To get a support for Apple Pencil you know...

 

[Kpjoslee]

Guys, its even worse than I thought about GTX 1070. It is 2048 CUDA core GPU with... 1575 MHz core clock. That is the core clock that brings 6.5 TFLOPs of compute power. With 150W TDP. On new node... Nope, GTX 1080M with 1300 MHz will not have 100W, it will have 125W.

Um, I hope you know how Nvidia GPUs operate. When they run, they run on boosted clock, not the core clock stated. For example, my 980ti has 1190Mhz core clock, but runs on 1410-1420Mhz boosted. So during GTX 1080 demonstration, 2100 Mhz boost from 1733 Mhz should be easily obtainable.

 

[goMac]

Current MP is built for max ~130W TDP components. CPU and GPUs.

From looking at the numbers, the GPUs on the current Mac Pro are likely 150w-160w. It's reasonable Polaris overclock territory, but stock Polaris is low. Apple could go with stock Polaris speeds and give the Mac Pro more headroom to run at load, but that could be a mistake. Hard to tell. It would be a dual Polaris box, which could still be faster than a single 1080, but not many apps would take advantage of that...

 

[koyoot]

Um, I hope you know how Nvidia GPUs operate. When they run, they run on boosted clock, not the core clock stated. For example, my 980ti has 1190Mhz core clock, but runs on 1410-1420Mhz boosted. So during GTX 1080 demonstration, 2100 Mhz boost from 1733 Mhz should be easily obtainable.

Yes, I know that. The trouble is, GTX 1080 Founders Edition has 1733 MHz BOOST clock. 2.1 GHz was OC'ed by Nvidia for the demo purpose. Base clock for GTX 1080 is... 1607 MHz. Nvidia Advertises the GPU as a 9 TFLOPs compute powerhouse. It is not achievable with 1607 MHz core clock, and 2560 CC's. It gives 8.5 TFLOPs. Going with 1.7 GHz - that brings the GPU to 8.9 TFLOPs margin. Which is close to the advertised.

So that 6.5 TFLOPs is for boost clock on GTX 1070.

 

[Synchro3]

I guess it's better to wait for OC'ed editions ex factory with twin fans, approximately 1900 - 2000 MHz, and hopefully with DP 1.3 or DP 1.4 (confirmed). Should still fit in the Mac Pro with one 8 pin connector.

1733 MHz -> 2114 MHz + 22%
180 Watt -> 225 Watt + 25%

Suggestion: Founders edition = Early adaptors edition with extra fee, because Nvidia has not yet enough GDDR5X memory at the beginning.

 

[Zarniwoop]

From looking at the numbers, the GPUs on the current Mac Pro are likely 150w-160w. It's reasonable Polaris overclock territory, but stock Polaris is low. Apple could go with stock Polaris speeds and give the Mac Pro more headroom to run at load, but that could be a mistake. Hard to tell. It would be a dual Polaris box, which could still be faster than a single 1080, but not many apps would take advantage of that...

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2014/01/two-steps-forward-a-review-of-the-2013-mac-pro/3/

 

[ManuelGomes]

Let's wait and see how the cards will actually perform.
I'm curious as to how NVidia will explain the compute power, if it really is 9TFLOPS but OC'ed only.
That DP1.4 was a smart stunt, but it just again shows that the GPUs are not fully ready yet and that this was more of a show off launch, to beat AMD to the punch.
Apple probably will clock Polaris up to the current TDP of 110-120W for each GPU, full blown for D710 and cut some cores for D510.
I'm not even sure Apple will be mentioning a lot how many TFLOPS the nMP will provide, probably just a note on the performance page saying double the prior version.

 

[koyoot]

Is AMD going to release Polaris 11 along with 10? Or maybe later?

Last year nobody knew anything about Fiji GPUs until the presentation, because there was hardly any leaks. This year is similar situation, AMD is VERY silent about performance, about anything, apart from efficiency.

Let's wait and see how the cards will actually perform.
I'm curious as to how NVidia will explain the compute power, if it really is 9TFLOPS but OC'ed only.
That DP1.4 was a smart stunt, but it just again shows that the GPUs are not fully ready yet and that this was more of a show off launch, to beat AMD to the punch.
Apple probably will clock Polaris up to the current TDP of 110-120W for each GPU, full blown for D710 and cut some cores for D510.
I'm not even sure Apple will be mentioning a lot how many TFLOPS the nMP will provide, probably just a note on the performance page saying double the prior version.

It was not OC'ed GPU. GTX 1080 really is 9 TFLOPs GPU. The demo was running on 2.1 GHz GPU, and it shows that it was 25% faster than Titan X. Reference model will be slower than that. But also reference model will be 9 TFLOPs GPU .

2.1 GHz core clock on 2560 CUDA core GPU brings it to 10.752 TFLOPs level.

 

[Zarniwoop]

Last year nobody knew anything about Fiji GPUs until the presentation, because there was hardly any leaks. This year is similar situation, AMD is VERY silent about performance, about anything, apart from efficiency.

It was not OC'ed GPU. GTX 1080 really is 9 TFLOPs GPU. The demo was running on 2.1 GHz GPU, and it shows that it was 25% faster than Titan X. Reference model will be slower than that. But also reference model will be 9 TFLOPs GPU .

2.1 GHz core clock on 2560 CUDA core GPU brings it to 10.752 TFLOPs level.

So GTX1080 with normal clocks should be nearly as fast as Titan X on that software demoed?

 

[koyoot]

No, I would say it will be 10-15% faster than TX.

 

[Zarniwoop]

Hmm.. yes. At least it has a lot more GPGPU power;
Officially
6144 GFLOPs for Titan X, TDP 250W (Maxwell)
~8900 GLOPs for GTX1080, TDP 180W (Pascal)

Fury X has 8600 GFLOPs for sp, so I think that was this figure what Nvidia wanted to exceed.. and clocked GTX1080 as it is, even if it is not the most efficient clock speed for GP104. GTX1070 should provide a lot better perf/watt ratio. But it's not bad to go down from TDP 250W --> 180W

 

[Mago]

Just few weeks we will have official info on AMD GPU and the Mac Pro and independent GTX1080 to help us cry or laugh.

What really worries me its availability, first I need a new rMBP ill kill for it if includes Xeon and AMD Polaris plus ar least 32GB RAM, also I would update to a new Mac Pro before year's end depends on Apple also in case Apple sells a 5K retina thunderbolt display I'll get one and move my 4K to my home.

Both cases something tells me the rMBP may not arrive until August or September and the nMP as earliest on September more likely on early November.

 

[ManuelGomes]

Sorry, my mistake. Didn't do the math.
Thanx for the heads up.
[doublepost=1462715180][/doublepost]Still no info on DP ratio on the new cards.
I wonder when they'll release that?
Probably only when reviews are out and the numbers start showing up.
For them not to disclose now, either it's not a great ratio or they don't want to show their cards to AMD while they haven't disclosed any info on Polaris yet.

 

[flat five]

I know that your business is not selling anymore, but stop at least accusing me for being AMD Shill.

it's the one actual shill on this entire forum that goes around accusing everybody else of having a vested interest in what they type.

that's known as projecting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

 

[Zarniwoop]

Both cases something tells me the rRMB may not arrive until August or September and the nMP as earliest on September more likely on early November.

I have a similar hunch, that next gen Pro machines (except MP) might need macOS to do new things they're built to do. A support for Apple Pencil. An ability read gestures (for VR and other use).

So, nMP v2 could come this summer, but new pro displays maybe not.. for the same reason. Software needed.

And who knows, maybe before the end of the year Apple offers a new kind of a display, VR classes. And it's not for an entertainment purposes only, but a new way to do work at your workstation. And all Apple software works with it. The whole macOS is usable in VR or AR. Imagine using Garageband with VR classes, playing your air guitar and it creates music (thanks to a gesture reader on your Mac). You need a band, just ask Siri, your virtual assistant in virtual reality, to play some Jazz with you. And sooner or later, they're jamming with you in your room. Imagine editing your 4k video with her in AR. "Stop", "1.second forward", "now two frames back", "lets make it a tad more blue", "undo". You have a real looking studio equipment on your desk.

 

[deconstruct60]

I have a similar hunch, that next gen Pro machines (except MP) might need macOS to do new things they're built to do. A support for Apple Pencil. An ability read gestures (for VR and other use).

Apple Pencil? Apple doesn't even have a touch screen Mac of any kind. They have openly stated numerous times they don't see the utility. How are they going to jump from no touch screen to pencil ( when touch screen is a precursor)? Wacom has products that fill that niche on OS X without Apple having to spend anything. It is similar with basic monitors. There are capable 3rd party vendors already in the roles that are not all that large.

The iPad market is substantially larger than the OS X one. Already has touchscreen. Indeed, primarily just has touch screens. So Pencil is a natural fit.


VR and Apple? Don't hold your breath. This seems to be a prime area where Apple seems very content to sit back and watch the bleeding edge fail in various ways so that they can later come in and do incremental refinement and package it as the solution folks should have had all along. The vast majority of the installed base's hardware is out of contention. A trailing adoption path is pretty much all they have available anyway.

And who knows, maybe before the end of the year Apple offers a new kind of a display, VR classes. And it's not for an entertainment purposes only, but a new way to do work at your workstation. And all Apple software works with it.

VR glasses? Doubtful. Apple software isn't the primary blocking root cause issue. Apple has laid no widespread hardware foundation for this. If the software can only run on 1% of the deployed Macs then going to have tons of problems getting software development companies to target it. Talking 1% of 6-7% of the overall market ( 0.01 * 0.07 = 0.0007 or 0.07%. Rounded to the nearest integer percentage that is 0% ).

 

[Mago]

Apple Pencil? Apple doesn't even have a touch screen Mac of any kind. They have openly stated numerous times they don't see the utility. How are they going to jump from no touch screen to pencil ( when touch screen is a precursor)? Wacom has products that fill that niche on OS X without Apple having to spend anything. It is similar with basic monitors. There are capable 3rd party vendors already in the roles that are not all that large.

The iPad market is substantially larger than the OS X one. Already has touchscreen. Indeed, primarily just has touch screens. So Pencil is a natural fit.


VR and Apple? Don't hold your breath. This seems to be a prime area where Apple seems very content to sit back and watch the bleeding edge fail in various ways so that they can later come in and do incremental refinement and package it as the solution folks should have had all along. The vast majority of the installed base's hardware is out of contention. A trailing adoption path is pretty much all they have available anyway.




VR glasses? Doubtful. Apple software isn't the primary blocking root cause issue. Apple has laid no widespread hardware foundation for this. If the software can only run on 1% of the deployed Macs then going to have tons of problems getting software development companies to target it. Talking 1% of 6-7% of the overall market ( 0.01 * 0.07 = 0.0007 or 0.07%. Rounded to the nearest integer percentage that is 0% ).

You are rigth on Apple Pencil, while is not ar complicated Apple to adapt it to work on non-touch screens its very unlikely will ever do.

But you are wrong on VR, Apple announced they interesto to develope this business area just read https://www.macrumors.com/roundup/apple-vr-project/

What it means? at first Apple will at least support 3rd party VR glasses as HTC Vive very likely and later OSVR and maybe Occulus rift.

Also there is VR content, we have leaks that suggest the upcoming MacPro along FCPX will do an special Offer for VR content producers, most likely VR video and Telepresence, VR Gaming maybe but will depend on Valve's Steam platform and maybe restricted to the upcoming Mac Pro and other macs capable to run an external GPU on TB3.

Also very likely Apple to develop an VR-iPod, not a big challenge, and sure will provide much money

 

[Synchro3]

That DP1.4 was a smart stunt, but it just again shows that the GPUs are not fully ready yet and that this was more of a show off launch, to beat AMD to the punch.

I am pleased to contradict. Zotac GTX 1080 has three Display Port 1.4 ports!

https://www.zotac.com/product/graphics_card/geforce-gtx-1080


5K is coming.

 

[Zarniwoop]

I am pleased to contradict. Zotac GTX 1080 has three Display Port 1.4 ports!

https://www.zotac.com/product/graphics_card/geforce-gtx-1080


5K is comming.

8k is coming.

 

[Mago]

8k is coming.

The Night is dark and full of resolution when your card interface don't match available monitors.

 

[Synchro3]

I'm quiet sure some 5k monitors will be released this year.

 

[Mago]

I'm quiet sure some 5k monitors will be released this year.

HDMI 2b is coming to westeros.

 

[goMac]

Fury X has 8600 GFLOPs for sp, so I think that was this figure what Nvidia wanted to exceed.. and clocked GTX1080 as it is, even if it is not the most efficient clock speed for GP104. GTX1070 should provide a lot better perf/watt ratio. But it's not bad to go down from TDP 250W --> 180W

Fury Nano isn't the worst choice Apple could make if Polaris won't go head to head with Pascal yet. They'd need to down clock it a bit, but it's at least in the same league as the 1080. But it is going to get totally outdated by it's Polaris based successor before the next Mac Pro even arrives, so having no Polaris on the Ultimate config is a tough pill to swallow.
[doublepost=1462746245][/doublepost]

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2014/01/two-steps-forward-a-review-of-the-2013-mac-pro/3/

That... seems like a typo to me. The W9000 has a TDP of 274 watts. Even though Apple is under clocking, it shouldn't get them anywhere near 108. Although the article does not the under clocking is considerable. But it also doesn't fit with the Mac Pro not being able to run the CPU and both GPUs at load without exceeding it's power budget.

 

[Zarniwoop]

Polaris 10 will replace R9 390 and 390X and send M395 and M395X to null void
Vega will send Fury X to terminal care

So Fury has it's place until Vega rises in the Sky.
[doublepost=1462746805][/doublepost]

That... seems like a typo to me. The W9000 has a TDP of 274 watts. Even though Apple is under clocking, it shouldn't get them anywhere near 108. Although the article does not the under clocking is considerable. But it also doesn't fit with the Mac Pro not being able to run the CPU and both GPUs at load without exceeding it's power budget.

Keep on reading.

"The major difference between this and the W9000 is that the D700 is very underclocked to meet the TDP and thermal requirements of the new Mac Pro. To quote an Ars forumgoer, "in terms of raw compute resources, that would seem to give a retail W8000 around a 63 percentage advantage vs the D500, and the W9000 a still significant 50 percentage advantage over the D700." So a direct comparison is not really valid, but, considering the price we are paying for these D*** series cards, these are fair trade-offs."
[doublepost=1462747315][/doublepost]Nvidia didn't want to start competing with Fury, so they set instead GTX1080 price higher, and both can enjoy the quietness in their price categories.
[doublepost=1462748971][/doublepost]I found this from another thread: http://videocardz.com/59718/nvidia-gtx-1080-gtx-1070-founders-edition-explained

 

[Mago]

Anyone knows Fury Nano's size (silicon)?