Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

lookash

macrumors newbie
Aug 14, 2020
29
24
Poland
They don't ignore, they can't do a lot about it. They can perhaps do a bit of power management on it, but people will complain on the performance. It's basically a hardware design issue (mostly AMD and Intel I believe.)
No, they ignore us! The customer shouldn't care what is causing the problem. If it's a software problem, they should update the software. If it's a hardware issue, they should perform a recall action and fix it.
But now all they do is pretend there is no problem and say the computer is working fine when it isn't.
 

Gabriel Ostrolucký

macrumors newbie
Aug 27, 2020
1
1
Can I at least force my macbook to use intel graphics when lid is closed and I have only one external display connected? Because even then dgpu is used for some reason in my case and laptop is hot and noisy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WilliamG

lookash

macrumors newbie
Aug 14, 2020
29
24
Poland
Can I at least force my macbook to use intel graphics when lid is closed and I have only one external display connected? Because even then dgpu is used for some reason in my case and laptop is hot and noisy.
Unfortunately no:( This isn't possible. Connecting external display always turn on dGPU:(
 

mrmachine79

macrumors regular
Mar 31, 2020
134
165
Guys,

I bought an eGPU (Radeon AMD RX 580) for my MBP 2017 and have 3 complains:
1) my dGPU consumes even more energy with eGPU than without it!
2) the dGPU does NOT stop working when I connect external monitors only through eGPU
3) only 2 monitors instead of 3 work with the eGPU (it can be because the 3rd one is like a tablet, but it works fine when plugged directly to my MBP).
4) the computer does not feel snappier at all...

The only good thing is that Radeon Pro is using only like 40% of its memory, as opposed to 100% without the eGPU, but that's not a tangible gain.

So have I bought a lemon? What can I do?
Check the GPU tab in activity monitor to see what is still using dGPU. Macos will still use dGPU but the dgpu will not have to run at max memory speed to avoid dual display timing issues. Since you are not using dGPU to drive external displays you can also run "sudo pmset -a gpuswitch 0" to completely disable dGPU. It's power usage drops to about 0 for me with that. But I don't run this way because the iGPU is a bit slow. I'm happy to still run the dgpu to render apps at 5w and have the eGPU just drive the display.
 

Appledoesnotlisten

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Dec 2, 2017
505
208
Check the GPU tab in activity monitor to see what is still using dGPU. Macos will still use dGPU but the dgpu will not have to run at max memory speed to avoid dual display timing issues. Since you are not using dGPU to drive external displays you can also run "sudo pmset -a gpuswitch 0" to completely disable dGPU. It's power usage drops to about 0 for me with that. But I don't run this way because the iGPU is a bit slow. I'm happy to still run the dgpu to render apps at 5w and have the eGPU just drive the display.
The sudo command has not helped.
Do you think that my problem can be a result of using a 6ft passive thunderbold cable?
 

bill-p

macrumors 68030
Jul 23, 2011
2,929
1,589
While the cable can be a culprit, it's more a case of working/not working. In my experience, I have used 6ft Thunderbolt 3 cable with my eGPU and not ran into any problem at all.

I'd do what @mrmachine79 suggested, which is to check to see if any of your app is currently making use of the dGPU. Some of the "usual suspects" that you wouldn't expect are Chrome, Safari (if you are running into a website that uses WebGL), your favorite photo editing software, your favorite movie editing software, etc...

If the sudo command does not help, I can only imagine that one of your apps is really holding on to the dGPU.
 

mrmachine79

macrumors regular
Mar 31, 2020
134
165
The sudo command has not helped.
Do you think that my problem can be a result of using a 6ft passive thunderbold cable?
You might need to reboot after the sudo command. If things are already using dGPU it will stay active until they are quit. After reboot they will never have a chance to use start using the dGPU.
 

petterihiisila

macrumors 6502
Nov 7, 2010
404
304
Finland
Report. It's no longer hot or noisy.

TLDR; My Razer Core + 580 arrived today. Looks like this experiment is a keeper. The laptop already ran cool in clamshell mode with the LG 5k solo clamshell (Radeon High Side 5 watts, 1800-2400 RPM) under light load. Now this same almost-silent experience remains while using two more monitors. It's kosher for me as a desktop replacement, after this extra expense.

***

Example test: I can run HD or 4k YouTube video + backupd + VMWare (Boot Camp partition), and after a while the RPM stabilizes to around 3800, which is quite tolerable under untrivial load. I can still obviously max out the fans, but it takes the same effort as running the 16" solo, as a laptop. Without the eGPU, trying this would instantly max the fans.

The rest of the time it's about as good as I hoped for a year or so ago. Regular web browsing, mail etc. happens at 1800 RPM stable.

Sleep mode works as it used to. eGPU goes silent, only the PSU fan keeps spinning. And sometimes the Mac doesn't wake up the next morning. That's how it already was, so I keep it always on.

The 580 comes with a 0 dB mode: fans are completely off when the eGPU isn't under load. They spin on occasionally, but in desktop use not in a significant way to alter the experience.

There are some cons, but also some workarounds.

1) The Razer Core produces some noise of its own, comparable to perhaps 3500 RPM MacBook fan noise level. It's a different kind of sound, but that's the impression. On the desk it can get distracting.

I mitigated this by locating it under the desk. It's literally hanging in there, with two fabric bands. Nothing touching wood to avoid resonant effects. It's called "Safeware Perfect Mounting Kit", sold around Scandinavia. The desk blocks majority of the noise and changes its profile. 31 dB as reported by Apple Watch, in an otherwise absolutely silent room. Totally OK. As a hobby project, I might change the main fan to Noctua NF-A12x25 FLX 120mm sometime in the future.

2) The Ethernet port isn't reliable. It just doesn't work after a while, even with the latest driver. I knew to expect this, so it's a bummer but not a deal-breaker for me. The USB hub works, and that's good enough. I've got a WiFi mesh for networking. If you don't need a USB hub, get the Core X model. I got the Chroma, because it's one less cable to connect the 10 or so USB devices.

3) There's no #3; I'll send an update if I find issues. It's only been a day. Booting into Boot Camp could be trouble, for example.

As an extra benefit, I can direct workloads to the eGPU, which I've done for most graphics-related apps. It seems to help keeping the dGPU at or near 5 watts even when multitasking with all 3 monitors and many apps. It jumps to 10, 15, even 40 watts, but only for a short burst.

All three monitors perform fluently, scrolling and Mission Control rarely drop a frame, even with tons of windows and Spaces. This wasn't the case without the eGPU and 3 monitors, one being a 5k. I've used to the iPad Pro smoothness and appreciate when a docked MacBook gives a similar experience, though not at 120 Hz.

And something that is a benefit for a silent and extremely small minority out there: I now have two GPUs to play Go against. KataGo can calculate the next move on both. "AlphaGo-at-home." For a silent game, I can use the eGPU for that. MacBook fans don't even spin up. The eGPU makes some funny noises though, while it's trying to beat me to the ground.

Configuration:
  • Clamshell mode
  • LG 5k direct connect
  • Razer Core Chroma + AMD 580 direct connect
  • Two WQHD monitors connected to the eGPU (might upgrade to 4k's later)
  • A whole lot of USB-C and USB devices connected to the monitors and the eGPU (via a hub)
Note: If your single monitor already consumes 20 W in clamshell mode, the eGPU probably doesn't help with that, nor it helps with the lid-open configuration. It appears that some ext monitors can handle 5 W clamshell solo, others take more, and it doesn't depend on the resolution.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Guitardude092

David58117

macrumors 65816
Jan 24, 2013
1,237
523
Just reporting back in - I've had a few hour+ long zoom/webex meetings, and the i9 5500M (in clamshell mode) with 2 4k monitors (connected through TS3+ dock) - performed great. The fan was on, but it certainly wasn't a "jet engine", or even running at max speed. That's with one full screen for video, the other running safari + pdf expert + word.

Anecdotal, but still very happy with the 16"!
 

jaduffy007

macrumors regular
May 23, 2018
146
139
Just reporting back in - I've had a few hour+ long zoom/webex meetings, and the i9 5500M (in clamshell mode) with 2 4k monitors (connected through TS3+ dock) - performed great. The fan was on, but it certainly wasn't a "jet engine", or even running at max speed. That's with one full screen for video, the other running safari + pdf expert + word.

Anecdotal, but still very happy with the 16"!

I use the same dock...I do NOT have the same positive results.
 

Grohowiak

macrumors 6502a
Nov 14, 2012
768
793
To echo @petterihiisila I got my Core X with Vega 56 Today.
Screenshot below is 16" lid open, + Ultrawide 2K + 1080P both connected to the eGPU. Ultrawide is set as main screen.
About 44-46 Idle.
Basically 3 screen setup running the way I wanted from the start.
I guess it will do for me.

Screen Shot 2020-08-28 at 7.33.36 PM.png
 
  • Like
Reactions: petterihiisila

Guitardude092

macrumors newbie
Jun 22, 2012
21
3
Report. It's no longer hot or noisy.

TLDR; My Razer Core + 580 arrived today. Looks like this experiment is a keeper. The laptop already ran cool in clamshell mode with the LG 5k solo clamshell (Radeon High Side 5 watts, 1800-2400 RPM) under light load. Now this same almost-silent experience remains while using two more monitors. It's kosher for me as a desktop replacement, after this extra expense.

***

Example test: I can run HD or 4k YouTube video + backupd + VMWare (Boot Camp partition), and after a while the RPM stabilizes to around 3800, which is quite tolerable under untrivial load. I can still obviously max out the fans, but it takes the same effort as running the 16" solo, as a laptop. Without the eGPU, trying this would instantly max the fans.

The rest of the time it's about as good as I hoped for a year or so ago. Regular web browsing, mail etc. happens at 1800 RPM stable.

Sleep mode works as it used to. eGPU goes silent, only the PSU fan keeps spinning. And sometimes the Mac doesn't wake up the next morning. That's how it already was, so I keep it always on.

The 580 comes with a 0 dB mode: fans are completely off when the eGPU isn't under load. They spin on occasionally, but in desktop use not in a significant way to alter the experience.

There are some cons, but also some workarounds.

1) The Razer Core produces some noise of its own, comparable to perhaps 3500 RPM MacBook fan noise level. It's a different kind of sound, but that's the impression. On the desk it can get distracting.

I mitigated this by locating it under the desk. It's literally hanging in there, with two fabric bands. Nothing touching wood to avoid resonant effects. It's called "Safeware Perfect Mounting Kit", sold around Scandinavia. The desk blocks majority of the noise and changes its profile. 31 dB as reported by Apple Watch, in an otherwise absolutely silent room. Totally OK. As a hobby project, I might change the main fan to Noctua NF-A12x25 FLX 120mm sometime in the future.

2) The Ethernet port isn't reliable. It just doesn't work after a while, even with the latest driver. I knew to expect this, so it's a bummer but not a deal-breaker for me. The USB hub works, and that's good enough. I've got a WiFi mesh for networking. If you don't need a USB hub, get the Core X model. I got the Chroma, because it's one less cable to connect the 10 or so USB devices.

3) There's no #3; I'll send an update if I find issues. It's only been a day. Booting into Boot Camp could be trouble, for example.

As an extra benefit, I can direct workloads to the eGPU, which I've done for most graphics-related apps. It seems to help keeping the dGPU at or near 5 watts even when multitasking with all 3 monitors and many apps. It jumps to 10, 15, even 40 watts, but only for a short burst.

All three monitors perform fluently, scrolling and Mission Control rarely drop a frame, even with tons of windows and Spaces. This wasn't the case without the eGPU and 3 monitors, one being a 5k. I've used to the iPad Pro smoothness and appreciate when a docked MacBook gives a similar experience, though not at 120 Hz.

And something that is a benefit for a silent and extremely small minority out there: I now have two GPUs to play Go against. KataGo can calculate the next move on both. "AlphaGo-at-home." For a silent game, I can use the eGPU for that. MacBook fans don't even spin up. The eGPU makes some funny noises though, while it's trying to beat me to the ground.

Configuration:
  • Clamshell mode
  • LG 5k direct connect
  • Razer Core Chroma + AMD 580 direct connect
  • Two WQHD monitors connected to the eGPU (might upgrade to 4k's later)
  • A whole lot of USB-C and USB devices connected to the monitors and the eGPU (via a hub)
Note: If your single monitor already consumes 20 W in clamshell mode, the eGPU probably doesn't help with that, nor it helps with the lid-open configuration. It appears that some ext monitors can handle 5 W clamshell solo, others take more, and it doesn't depend on the resolution.

I was actually of doing this set up! glad to hear its going great for you! So in my situation with running just 1 monitor. I have the LG ultrafine 4k apple monitor, I'm currently at 4-5w just idle but whenever I watch a 4k video or I use an intense program like Geforce Now or Shadow PC the fans start to kick up. If I were to go this route, once I plug in this eGPU, would all the workload and fan noise come and go straight to the 580? or would my macbook also be still under the same stress? The reason I ask is cause one of the main reasons I want an egpu for this case is that I don't want the fans and cpu running constantly at high speeds and temps cause of the longevity of it. I was hoping an eGPU would be my answer here. What do you think think?

Thank you so much in advance!
 
  • Like
Reactions: petterihiisila

Guitardude092

macrumors newbie
Jun 22, 2012
21
3
To echo @petterihiisila I got my Core X with Vega 56 Today.
Screenshot below is 16" lid open, + Ultrawide 2K + 1080P both connected to the eGPU. Ultrawide is set as main screen.
About 44-46 Idle.
Basically 3 screen setup running the way I wanted from the start.
I guess it will do for me.

View attachment 948443

So once you plug in the eGPU, and once you set it as the main gpu, do all the programs go towards that for the main consumption? Like if i were to run a 4k video on youtube, would my macbook fans blast? or would it go straight to the eGPU. I'm sorry for the dumb question haha I'm just really desperate here lol
 

petterihiisila

macrumors 6502
Nov 7, 2010
404
304
Finland
So once you plug in the eGPU, and once you set it as the main gpu, do all the programs go towards that for the main consumption? Like if i were to run a 4k video on youtube, would my macbook fans blast? or would it go straight to the eGPU. I'm sorry for the dumb question haha I'm just really desperate here lol

I can't promise how your results would look like with your apps, but over here the dGPU stays at 5 watts, as long as the visual action happens inside the eGPU monitors. If I drag the window to the dGPU monitor, then there's a wattage impact, but it's pretty small.

Running an 8k/30fps video from YouTube in Safari, full screen or max window size: dGPU stays at 5 W when it's playing in the eGPU monitor. If I drag the window to the dGPU monitor, it's 13 W. If I run an 4k video on dGPU monitor, it's 8 W.

CPU takes more power with 8k on both monitors: 30-50 W, the process shows 500+ % CPU in Activity Monitor. I don't think there's any way around that, unless YouTube and Apple both do some codec magic. 4k takes 25 W CPU. No one watches 8k from YouTube (other than for testing), so that's not really an issue. With 4k, fans stabilize at around 3800 RPM, solely because of CPU wattage. Audible but not distracting. And not my primary use case. During regular 3-monitor office/graphics work, the Mac fans run at 1800...2200 RPM.

There is non-visual GPU computation, and many apps are able to obey the checkbox and use the eGPU for that, regardless of which monitor they're on. In this case the dGPU wattage would stay low and constant. But this requires app support. For example KataGo is a monster GPU hog with its neural networks, but if it's set to use the eGPU, the Mac stays silent during the game. You'd probably want to google for "game_or_app_title egpu support" to be sure if your app/game knows how to use an eGPU.

In practice, I rarely see the dGPU go past 10 watts for more than a few seconds. I've set the eGPU as primary display via System Preferences > Displays > Arrangement > Drag the white bar. That should help apps default to eGPU computation, whenever they're equipped to do so.

Hope this helps.

Edit: Those figures are with Turbo Boost on and no wattage limits whatsoever. For some reason some 8k videos take all of the CPU, while others only need 12% core utilization. Go figure. I just set the CPU wattage limit to 25 W with Volta. Now the fans stay at 3300 RPM during 8k playback.
 
Last edited:

crymimefireworks

macrumors 6502
Dec 19, 2014
314
369
Just gonna chime in here in case someone from Apple is reading this. Definitely had issues like this. Ended up resetting the settings on my monitor back to default, seems better. Is it the scaled resolution thing, idk. Should just work. Computer also seems to get hot all the time even when doing nothing. Love this beast tho.
 

jaduffy007

macrumors regular
May 23, 2018
146
139
I'm using a BenQ 4k external monitor and experiencing the same issue.

Curious, which model are you using? I have a BenQ SW271...and have the infamous heat / fans issues. Even after following this thread...and others for months, I'm unclear whether switching to a LG tb3 monitor would solve the issue or not. Also, I wonder if a tb3 BenQ monitor, like the BenQ PD3220U, would solve it.
 

Grohowiak

macrumors 6502a
Nov 14, 2012
768
793
So once you plug in the eGPU, and once you set it as the main gpu, do all the programs go towards that for the main consumption? Like if i were to run a 4k video on youtube, would my macbook fans blast? or would it go straight to the eGPU. I'm sorry for the dumb question haha I'm just really desperate here lol

Watching 4K video full screen on chrome to make it fun (YT set at 4K though my max res is ultra 2K) and I am around 55-60 Celsius which with my settings leaves fans at circa 1800 - 2000 rpm. It's silent.
eGPU is under the desk and I can't hear it either and it's a Vega blower so they are not the most subtle cards.
I have a feeling somebody would say that they can hear the eGPU but seriously in comparison to what it was before this is like polar opposites and I am very happy.
 

bill-p

macrumors 68030
Jul 23, 2011
2,929
1,589
So once you plug in the eGPU, and once you set it as the main gpu, do all the programs go towards that for the main consumption? Like if i were to run a 4k video on youtube, would my macbook fans blast? or would it go straight to the eGPU. I'm sorry for the dumb question haha I'm just really desperate here lol

Apple still does not officially support hardware acceleration with Youtube. As a result, if you want to run Youtube at 4K, you must use Chrome, which has a software decoder for VP9.

TL;DR: no matter what you do, 4K Youtube playback on a Mac computer currently will stress the CPU to the max and cause temperatures to shoot up. If you have a MacBook Pro 13", it's actually even worse than the 16" as some 4K 60fps video won't play smoothly.

Ironically, if you want smooth Youtube 4K playback with minimal fan noise, Windows 10 in Bootcamp will do far better. Even without an eGPU, and even when I have both the internal display and an external display running at the same time. This lack of support for simple consumer-level tech is slowly pushing me away from Apple. I can't even enjoy a simple 4K video that my TV plays back without any issue whatsoever... all by itself.
 
  • Like
Reactions: avkam

Kung gu

Suspended
Oct 20, 2018
1,379
2,434
Apple still does not officially support hardware acceleration with Youtube. As a result, if you want to run Youtube at 4K, you must use Chrome, which has a software decoder for VP9.

TL;DR: no matter what you do, 4K Youtube playback on a Mac computer currently will stress the CPU to the max and cause temperatures to shoot up. If you have a MacBook Pro 13", it's actually even worse than the 16" as some 4K 60fps video won't play smoothly.

Ironically, if you want smooth Youtube 4K playback with minimal fan noise, Windows 10 in Bootcamp will do far better. Even without an eGPU, and even when I have both the internal display and an external display running at the same time. This lack of support for simple consumer-level tech is slowly pushing me away from Apple. I can't even enjoy a simple 4K video that my TV plays back without any issue whatsoever... all by itself.
4K YouTube is supported natively in Big Sur.. wait maybe until October- November for big sur to come out
 

petterihiisila

macrumors 6502
Nov 7, 2010
404
304
Finland
4K YouTube is supported natively in Big Sur.. wait maybe until October- November for big sur to come out

Right, that would explain why my 4k RPM test produced barely a bump on the CPU curve, while (some) 8k videos made it go 500+%. And some 8k videos didn’t. Is it possible that some 8k videos are served with a different codec than others? All that with Safari.

Razer Core + 580 works fine on Big Sur. The only thing I’ve noticed that it doesn’t always want to eject nicely, some apps want to keep hold of it, if many are open. In those cases I have to undock it via a reboot. A small trade-off to accept.
 

MacMan988

macrumors 6502a
Jul 7, 2012
870
150
Curious, which model are you using? I have a BenQ SW271...and have the infamous heat / fans issues. Even after following this thread...and others for months, I'm unclear whether switching to a LG tb3 monitor would solve the issue or not. Also, I wonder if a tb3 BenQ monitor, like the BenQ PD3220U, would solve it.

I'm using the BenQ EW3270U monitor via USB-C on native resolution. Sometimes the fans are quite when I do lightweight tasks like browsing web. Although, watching a YouTube video on 1080p on Safari is enough to quickly makes the fans spinning like a jet engine.
 

flowsy

macrumors 6502
Aug 16, 2009
356
299
Germany
Apple still does not officially support hardware acceleration with Youtube. As a result, if you want to run Youtube at 4K, you must use Chrome, which has a software decoder for VP9.

TL;DR: no matter what you do, 4K Youtube playback on a Mac computer currently will stress the CPU to the max and cause temperatures to shoot up. If you have a MacBook Pro 13", it's actually even worse than the 16" as some 4K 60fps video won't play smoothly.

Ironically, if you want smooth Youtube 4K playback with minimal fan noise, Windows 10 in Bootcamp will do far better. Even without an eGPU, and even when I have both the internal display and an external display running at the same time. This lack of support for simple consumer-level tech is slowly pushing me away from Apple. I can't even enjoy a simple 4K video that my TV plays back without any issue whatsoever... all by itself.
Not on macOS 11 Big Sur. 4K Youtube playback on Safari is fine.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.