(2019) 16" is HOT & NOISY with an external monitor! :(

[dooyou]

My new work 16” gets very hot and noisy in clamshell connected to a 30” Cinema Display.

What’s worse is it kernel panics 1-2 times per day if used in clamshell.

This shouldn‘t happen. Ask for a exchange.

 

[onerovico]

Just got the Dell D6000 docking station with DisplayLink. I am currently driving two 1920x1200 displays AND the MBP16 display. I can use either iGPU or dGPU when activating the AMD dGPU the power consumption can be seen in the attaches screenshot. So far, it looks good


I have tested with two FullHD 60fps videos on each of the external screens and the CPU usage of the DisplayLinkDriver achieves 100% on one core but there is no dropped frames as I can see. This is the downside of the techn.

However, my screen content is usally not changing all all the time.

 

[elezium]

Just got the Dell D6000 docking station with DisplayLink. I am currently driving two 1920x1200 displays AND the MBP16 display. I can use either iGPU or dGPU when activating the AMD dGPU the power consumption can be seen in the attaches screenshot. So far, it looks good


I have tested with two FullHD 60fps videos on each of the external screens and the CPU usage of the DisplayLinkDriver achieves 100% on one core but there is no dropped frames as I can see. This is the downside of the techn.

However, my screen content is usally not changing all all the time.

Do you see any latency / lag or the performance a pretty much the same as a monitor connected directly to the MBP?

And I don't know if it's possible, but can you test a RDP connection to a remote Windows box and see if that cause the DisplayLinkDriver to go 100% on one core?

Thanks, appreciate.

 

[onerovico]

Do you see any latency / lag or the performance a pretty much the same as a monitor connected directly to the MBP?

And I don't know if it's possible, but can you test a RDP connection to a remote Windows box and see if that cause the DisplayLinkDriver to go 100% on one core?

Thanks, appreciate.

I dont see any latency or lag in normal use (Its the first day). I only recognize a very minor unsmooth mouse movement when both screens show 1080p 60fps videos.

In my work environment I can use VNC to connect to linux using TurboVNC. It works perfectly fine without any increase in in the CPU consumption.

Right now while writing this on the external display and showing the linux on the second external display the process of the driver idles at 5-7% of one core.

 

[soiramk]

I dont see any latency or lag in normal use (Its the first day). I only recognize a very minor unsmooth mouse movement when both screens show 1080p 60fps videos.

In my work environment I can use VNC to connect to linux using TurboVNC. It works perfectly fine without any increase in in the CPU consumption.

Right now while writing this on the external display and showing the linux on the second external display the process of the driver idles at 5-7% of one core.

Could you possibly test it with higher resolution monitor? 2560x1440 for example maybe?

 

[onerovico]

Could you possibly test it with higher resolution monitor? 2560x1440 for example maybe?

Unfortunately, I have only 1920x1200 monitors.

Edit: I can try with the 4k TV at home

 

[elezium]

I dont see any latency or lag in normal use (Its the first day). I only recognize a very minor unsmooth mouse movement when both screens show 1080p 60fps videos.

In my work environment I can use VNC to connect to linux using TurboVNC. It works perfectly fine without any increase in in the CPU consumption.

Right now while writing this on the external display and showing the linux on the second external display the process of the driver idles at 5-7% of one core.

Thanks. I might consider getting one then...

 

[onerovico]

I could try the dock with a 4K display. Both for native resolution and HiDPI (looks like FHD) browsing, youtube, and CaptureOne for photo editing works perfectly fine. Mause and moving windows around works normal and smooth.

BUT: the fullscreen 4k 60FPS video playback using chrome is not as smooth as it was on the 1920x1200 screens. However it is still ok. AMD gpu power consumption still fine, as shown in the attached screenshot.

 

[lookash]

I could try the dock with a 4K display. Both for native resolution and HiDPI (looks like FHD) browsing, youtube, and CaptureOne for photo editing works perfectly fine. Mause and moving windows around works normal and smooth.

BUT: the fullscreen 4k 60FPS video playback using chrome is not as smooth as it was on the 1920x1200 screens. However it is still ok. AMD gpu power consumption still fine, as shown in the attached screenshot.

Could you check what the situation looks when you're making some CPU intensive tasks? For example, exporting photos from Lightroom or Capture One?

 

[marpies]

I dont see any latency or lag in normal use (Its the first day). I only recognize a very minor unsmooth mouse movement when both screens show 1080p 60fps videos.

In my work environment I can use VNC to connect to linux using TurboVNC. It works perfectly fine without any increase in in the CPU consumption.

Right now while writing this on the external display and showing the linux on the second external display the process of the driver idles at 5-7% of one core.

Thanks for sharing! Have you noticed any spikes in CPU usage so far as mentioned here?

 

[OsakaMartini]

I have been contacting Apple for a long time, many hours on the phone, and many times chatting and back and forth. My case got escalated multiple times and eventually, it was considered a hazard case, after which the engineering department contacted me. But then it felt more like a facade, as they basically told me "it doesn't get that hot that the laptop shuts off, therefore it's not a hazard" and "this powerful laptop gets hot because it's powerful" etc. Finally, they recommended me to go to the Apple Store, but of course, here they just collect the laptop and conclude there is nothing wrong with it. So this took me a few months (bought the laptop in Nov. 2019).

I have the 16 inch, 2.4GHz, 32GB, 5500M 8GB, 2TB version and I am very pissed because it was expensive AF, and people in my work environment are annoyed by the loud sound, as it sounded like a small airplane was lifting off (fans up to 80-100%).

I use 1 or 2 5K LG Ultrafine displays, and because of the noise and the heat, I have not been using my displays anymore for the past half a year. Which is a shame.

I did, however, get some tips from the Apple Engineering guy on the phone, and I am not sure if these tips or the fact that I use TurboBoostSwitcher (set to off) are helping, but recently my fans are spinning at around 2700 (one display) to 3200 rpm (two displays), while at 1800 rpm without displays (all lid open).

Just to be sure, I will give the tips from the Apple guy on the phone:

- Go to About This Mac, and click System Report
- Go to Extensions under the tab Software
- Sort by Obtained
- Check the Not Signed ones and the Identified Developer
- Note the ones which are not listed in the "baseline"/normal list (see attachment) and find their location (you can find this following Location when clicking the extension which is not in the list)
- Go to that location (you probably have to use Option-click on the Finder's Go menu to see "Library") and instead of right-out deleting them, compress them (select the ones, and right-click and click Compress # items) so they remain in the same location but are not used by the system anymore.
- Reboot

Either this, the TurboBoostSwitcher or a combination of both have made my MacBook significantly less loud (as mentioned before 2700-3300rpm), however, it still draws ~20W from the Radeon High Side (see attachments).

Before this, the fans ramped up to 80-100%, while the Idle CPU (you can check it in Activity Monitor) was 90-98% (showing there was no real system activity which may have explained the high temp and the loud fans (which we all know did not, the fans ramped up to 80-100% even without any app open)).

Attachments:
1) No displays connected
2) 1x 5K LG Ultrafine
3) 2x 5K LG Ultrafine
4) list of extensions with "Identified Developer" which come with the Mac (don't delete (compress) these, but the rest).
5) iStat screenshot when 2 displays are connected (20W Radeon High Side, 2800-3100 rpm fans)
6) 2x 5K LG Ultrafine + TurboBoost enabled (after about 20 min)

Hope it helps somewhat. Now let's wait for a proper solution (driver update?!). In the meanwhile this made my life a lot better, hope it helps some of you too. Good luck!

 

[m7ammed]

I have been contacting Apple for a long time, many hours on the phone, and many times chatting and back and forth. My case got escalated multiple times and eventually, it was considered a hazard case, after which the engineering department contacted me. But then it felt more like a facade, as they basically told me "it doesn't get that hot that the laptop shuts off, therefore it's not a hazard" and "this powerful laptop gets hot because it's powerful" etc. Finally, they recommended me to go to the Apple Store, but of course, here they just collect the laptop and conclude there is nothing wrong with it. So this took me a few months (bought the laptop in Nov. 2019).

I have the 16 inch, 2.4GHz, 32GB, 5500M 8GB, 2TB version and I am very pissed because it was expensive AF, and people in my work environment are annoyed by the loud sound, as it sounded like a small airplane was lifting off (fans up to 80-100%).

I use 1 or 2 5K LG Ultrafine displays, and because of the noise and the heat, I have not been using my displays anymore for the past half a year. Which is a shame.

I did, however, get some tips from the Apple Engineering guy on the phone, and I am not sure if these tips or the fact that I use TurboBoostSwitcher (set to off) are helping, but recently my fans are spinning at around 2700 (one display) to 3200 rpm (two displays), while at 1800 rpm without displays (all lid open).

Just to be sure, I will give the tips from the Apple guy on the phone:

- Go to About This Mac, and click System Report
- Go to Extensions under the tab Software
- Sort by Obtained
- Check the Not Signed ones and the Identified Developer
- Note the ones which are not listed in the "baseline"/normal list (see attachment) and find their location (you can find this following Location when clicking the extension which is not in the list)
- Go to that location (you probably have to use Option-click on the Finder's Go menu to see "Library") and instead of right-out deleting them, compress them (select the ones, and right-click and click Compress # items) so they remain in the same location but are not used by the system anymore.
- Reboot

Either this, the TurboBoostSwitcher or a combination of both have made my MacBook significantly less loud (as mentioned before 2700-3300rpm), however, it still draws ~20W from the Radeon High Side (see attachments).

Before this, the fans ramped up to 80-100%, while the Idle CPU (you can check it in Activity Monitor) was 90-98% (showing there was no real system activity which may have explained the high temp and the loud fans (which we all know did not, the fans ramped up to 80-100% even without any app open)).

Attachments:
1) No displays connected
2) 1x 5K LG Ultrafine
3) 2x 5K LG Ultrafine
4) list of extensions with "Identified Developer" which come with the Mac (don't delete (compress) these, but the rest).
5) iStat screenshot when 2 displays are connected (20W Radeon High Side, 2800-3100 rpm fans)
6) 2x 5K LG Ultrafine + TurboBoost enabled (after about 20 min)

Hope it helps somewhat. Now let's wait for a proper solution (driver update?!). In the meanwhile this made my life a lot better, hope it helps some of you too. Good luck!

Wouldn’t it be easier if you just closed the laptop? As some said before there were no issues in clampshell mode

 

[OsakaMartini]

Wouldn’t it be easier if you just closed the laptop? As some said before there were no issues in clampshell mode

I wanna use my laptop as it should be able to run and what I bought it for, the removal of the extensions and the installation of the TBS is a simple one time thing, which I gave me some significant results and now I use both of my displays, which I thought was worth sharing with the other people.

 

[thedocbwarren]

I have been contacting Apple for a long time, many hours on the phone, and many times chatting and back and forth. My case got escalated multiple times and eventually, it was considered a hazard case, after which the engineering department contacted me. But then it felt more like a facade, as they basically told me "it doesn't get that hot that the laptop shuts off, therefore it's not a hazard" and "this powerful laptop gets hot because it's powerful" etc. Finally, they recommended me to go to the Apple Store, but of course, here they just collect the laptop and conclude there is nothing wrong with it. So this took me a few months (bought the laptop in Nov. 2019).

I have the 16 inch, 2.4GHz, 32GB, 5500M 8GB, 2TB version and I am very pissed because it was expensive AF, and people in my work environment are annoyed by the loud sound, as it sounded like a small airplane was lifting off (fans up to 80-100%).

I use 1 or 2 5K LG Ultrafine displays, and because of the noise and the heat, I have not been using my displays anymore for the past half a year. Which is a shame.

I did, however, get some tips from the Apple Engineering guy on the phone, and I am not sure if these tips or the fact
It seemed to indicate these were not loaded. If you got results from this, what was the cause?


that I use TurboBoostSwitcher (set to off) are helping, but recently my fans are spinning at around 2700 (one display) to 3200 rpm (two displays), while at 1800 rpm without displays (all lid open).

Just to be sure, I will give the tips from the Apple guy on the phone:

- Go to About This Mac, and click System Report
- Go to Extensions under the tab Software
- Sort by Obtained
- Check the Not Signed ones and the Identified Developer
- Note the ones which are not listed in the "baseline"/normal list (see attachment) and find their location (you can find this following Location when clicking the extension which is not in the list)
- Go to that location (you probably have to use Option-click on the Finder's Go menu to see "Library") and instead of right-out deleting them, compress them (select the ones, and right-click and click Compress # items) so they remain in the same location but are not used by the system anymore.
- Reboot

Either this, the TurboBoostSwitcher or a combination of both have made my MacBook significantly less loud (as mentioned before 2700-3300rpm), however, it still draws ~20W from the Radeon High Side (see attachments).

Before this, the fans ramped up to 80-100%, while the Idle CPU (you can check it in Activity Monitor) was 90-98% (showing there was no real system activity which may have explained the high temp and the loud fans (which we all know did not, the fans ramped up to 80-100% even without any app open)).

Attachments:
1) No displays connected
2) 1x 5K LG Ultrafine
3) 2x 5K LG Ultrafine
4) list of extensions with "Identified Developer" which come with the Mac (don't delete (compress) these, but the rest).
5) iStat screenshot when 2 displays are connected (20W Radeon High Side, 2800-3100 rpm fans)
6) 2x 5K LG Ultrafine + TurboBoost enabled (after about 20 min)

Hope it helps somewhat. Now let's wait for a proper solution (driver update?!). In the meanwhile this made my life a lot better, hope it helps some of you too. Good luck!

 

[Robin Lee]

Wouldn’t it be easier if you just closed the laptop? As some said before there were no issues in clampshell mode

According to the users' feedbacks here, if you connect more than one external monitor, the issue still persists.

 

[petterihiisila]

According to the users' feedbacks here, if you connect more than one external monitor, the issue still persists.

Indeed. Which means that even though one owns two displays, internal + external, one can activate only one of them and expect comfortable noise/wattage/temps.

So far it seems that the only way to reliably get comfortable noise/temp profiles with two (or more) active displays is eGPU + clamshell.

One of those ext displays can optionally be connected directly. All others via eGPU.

I’ve used Volta with 27 Watts limit for a week, Turbo Boost on. Three monitors attached without eGPU. RPMs run at 2800 idle, 4000 with web browsing and email.

That’s been decent, performance is great, but I’m still getting an eGPU for the 2nd and 3rd display.

Without it, the fans will easily max out, if the 2nd and 3rd displays are connected and the CPU gets a bit of work to do. I haven’t had any kernel_task slowdowns with 27W limit active, so that’s a positive. Heat management manages it, it’s just noisy. With 1 ext + clamshell it’s mostly quiet.

I’ve checked the kernel extension list, there’s nothing shady to remove.

 

[brodocon]

Indeed. Which means that even though one owns two displays, internal + external, one can activate only one of them and expect comfortable noise/wattage/temps.

So far it seems that the only way to reliably get comfortable noise/temp profiles with two (or more) active displays is eGPU + clamshell.

One of those ext displays can optionally be connected directly. All others via eGPU.

I’ve used Volta with 27 Watts limit for a week, Turbo Boost on. Three monitors attached without eGPU. RPMs run at 2800 idle, 4000 with web browsing and email.

That’s been decent, performance is great, but I’m still getting an eGPU for the 2nd and 3rd display.

Without it, the fans will easily max out, if the 2nd and 3rd displays are connected and the CPU gets a bit of work to do. I haven’t had any kernel_task slowdowns with 27W limit active, so that’s a positive. Heat management manages it, it’s just noisy. With 1 ext + clamshell it’s mostly quiet.

I’ve checked the kernel extension list, there’s nothing shady to remove.

this really isn't the case for everyone. I had the temp issues in clamshell mode connected to only one monitor (a benq pd2500q) effectively a 2k monitor. didn't matter if I ran one or 2 in clamshell, my radeon high side wattage was near 20. so it is not a guarantee that single monitor in clamshell will solve the issue.

 

[davidbend]

It's crazy. 9 months and Apple still ignores us.

 

[thedocbwarren]

They don't ignore, they can't do a lot about it. They can perhaps do a bit of power management on it, but people will complain on the performance. It's basically a hardware design issue (mostly AMD and Intel I believe.)

We can mitigate this with adding an eGPU or changing the usage. Laptops have compromises. High performance laptops will compromise battery and heat, end of story.

Apple will use their own silicon to solve this rather than suffer from Intel and AMD failings. It's truly sad we've come to this but I expected so when they switched to Intel. AMD same thing. I like AMD, but switching from Nvidia (not that they as wonderful either) added to the voltage and heat troubles. Then there is the thin design. It adds up.

Overall, it's a wonderful workstation laptop. I beat the crud out of it and it takes it in strides. When I game on it it pushes and runs hit but handled wonderfully (except when my AC was out.)

End of the story for heavy GPu I'm getting an eGPU. i may wait a bit more for Big Navi and Big Sur support for it.

It's crazy. 9 months and Apple still ignores us.

 

[Appledoesnotlisten]

Guys,

I bought an eGPU (Radeon AMD RX 580) for my MBP 2017 and have 3 complains:
1) my dGPU consumes even more energy with eGPU than without it!
2) the dGPU does NOT stop working when I connect external monitors only through eGPU
3) only 2 monitors instead of 3 work with the eGPU (it can be because the 3rd one is like a tablet, but it works fine when plugged directly to my MBP).
4) the computer does not feel snappier at all...

The only good thing is that Radeon Pro is using only like 40% of its memory, as opposed to 100% without the eGPU, but that's not a tangible gain.

So have I bought a lemon? What can I do?

 

[OsakaMartini]

According to the users' feedbacks here, if you connect more than one external monitor, the issue still persists.

this really isn't the case for everyone. I had the temp issues in clamshell mode connected to only one monitor (a benq pd2500q) effectively a 2k monitor. didn't matter if I ran one or 2 in clamshell, my radeon high side wattage was near 20. so it is not a guarantee that single monitor in clamshell will solve the issue.

Attached is my case with the 5K LGs. Closed with 2 gives similar results as Open with 1 or 2 displays connected.

Indeed. Which means that even though one owns two displays, internal + external, one can activate only one of them and expect comfortable noise/wattage/temps.

So far it seems that the only way to reliably get comfortable noise/temp profiles with two (or more) active displays is eGPU + clamshell.

One of those ext displays can optionally be connected directly. All others via eGPU.

I’ve used Volta with 27 Watts limit for a week, Turbo Boost on. Three monitors attached without eGPU. RPMs run at 2800 idle, 4000 with web browsing and email.

That’s been decent, performance is great, but I’m still getting an eGPU for the 2nd and 3rd display.

Without it, the fans will easily max out, if the 2nd and 3rd displays are connected and the CPU gets a bit of work to do. I haven’t had any kernel_task slowdowns with 27W limit active, so that’s a positive. Heat management manages it, it’s just noisy. With 1 ext + clamshell it’s mostly quiet.

I’ve checked the kernel extension list, there’s nothing shady to remove.

Interesting your fans go up to 4000 when you are doing only browsing. In my case growing and e-mailing with 2 monitors give me a Radeon High Side of ~20W, but fans to max 3000. Although for me as well if I do something more CPU intensive it also goes up to above 5000 rpm. What is Volta? And how does it help you specifically? Thanks

 

[Norbert Mikołajczyk]

Guys,

I bought an eGPU (Radeon AMD RX 580) for my MBP 2017 and have 3 complains:
1) my dGPU consumes even more energy with eGPU than without it!
2) the dGPU does NOT stop working when I connect external monitors only through eGPU
3) only 2 monitors instead of 3 work with the eGPU (it can be because the 3rd one is like a tablet, but it works fine when plugged directly to my MBP).
4) the computer does not feel snappier at all...

The only good thing is that Radeon Pro is using only like 40% of its memory, as opposed to 100% without the eGPU, but that's not a tangible gain.

So have I bought a lemon? What can I do?

Please describe how the things are connected.
You can only plug in the external monitors to eGPU. You shouldn't connect any other display to your laptop because it will trigger the dGPU for external display again.

Please be aware that we are discussing newer model MBP 16 2019-2020 here, not a MBP from 2017...

 

[petterihiisila]

Interesting your fans go up to 4000 when you are doing only browsing. In my case growing and e-mailing with 2 monitors give me a Radeon High Side of ~20W, but fans to max 3000. Although for me as well if I do something more CPU intensive it also goes up to above 5000 rpm. What is Volta? And how does it help you specifically? Thanks

Just tested after logging in from idle, RPM 2200. Ten minutes of news, some with video, and 3900 RPM, won't go over 4000 though. Spotify is playing, Intel Power Gadget and Activity Monitor are on. CPU load hovers at around 10%. If I stop interactions and only type here, it's now 3400 and going down. It will stabilize at around 3000...3400 when just typing, not moving windows or multitasking. Three monitors, clamshell. One of them 5k, two others WQHD.

What's good about Volta (app) is that you can limit the max wattage the CPU takes and leave Turbo Boost on to cater for max GHz burst loads that use just 1 or few cores. It doesn't take a ton of wattage to let some cores go full speed.

The limit eliminates the 8-core-related max load of 50, even 80 W, leaving more headroom for cooling to work at tolerable RPMs during light/medium load. I've found that 20...30 W limit works just fine, without any devastating impact on GeekBench scores for example. Compared to Turbo Boost off, 25 W general limit allows for some CPU burst loads, yet leads to similar results, RPM-wise. In other words, I get more of what I paid for in this 16", compared to TB off method.

The downside is that one needs to allow an unsigned kernel extension to load, so after that there's even more reason to be careful what to install from the web. (If one doesn't readily know what an unsigned kernel extension or csrutil is, then installing Volta is probably a bad idea, and I'd recommend Turbo Boost Switcher instead.)
[automerge]1598514707[/automerge]

 

[Corncab44]

this really isn't the case for everyone. I had the temp issues in clamshell mode connected to only one monitor (a benq pd2500q) effectively a 2k monitor. didn't matter if I ran one or 2 in clamshell, my radeon high side wattage was near 20. so it is not a guarantee that single monitor in clamshell will solve the issue.

I think people also confuse idle consumption with what the Radeon can spike to when you do literally anything with video while still in clamshell. I had a 16 that I returned and the fans were intolerable loud in clamshell whenever I played a video with a few other programs running. The problem was worse in the 5500m than 5300m but both were bad.

 

[soiramk]

this really isn't the case for everyone. I had the temp issues in clamshell mode connected to only one monitor (a benq pd2500q) effectively a 2k monitor. didn't matter if I ran one or 2 in clamshell, my radeon high side wattage was near 20. so it is not a guarantee that single monitor in clamshell will solve the issue.

That's the case for me too. Even worse my external monitor is an old SAMSUNG SyncMaster 226bw 1680x1050...
I'm hoping for "a fix" for this in order to know which 27-inch monitor to buy. A 1440p or a 4K one?