(2019) 16" is HOT & NOISY with an external monitor! :(

[apr]

It is pointless to upgrade to ventura (13.0.1) because we get a guaranteed random windowserver crash. (You may find various "workarounds" how to fix the windowserver crash, I tried all of them, none of them helps.)

It seems that once again apple screwed up external monitor setups. But this bug is worse than the old extra amd power consumption. I also found that the amd driver definitely worse than in monterey, I see higher average wattage values

 

[jasdjasd8sadkasjdah]

I signed up here specifically to share my experience:

I cannot recommend the 16 incher with AMD iGPU after a total of 3 years of use, at least if you (like me some time ago) connect a 2560 * 1080 display (have gone through USB-C -> Displayport adapter/cable, USB-C -> HDMI adapter/cable and all possible constellations, the problem was always the same).
I even put a notebook cooler under the laptop to mitigate the problem.
It occured in Monterey and Ventura, with all the latest upgrades/updates.
It is suspected that there is a driver bug here (or a general software problem), since it does not occur with resolutions like 4K, at least for me (see below):
AMD board

The dedicated graphics chip draws over 18W of power (which generates corresponding heat), and the fans spin at maximum speed (around 5400 rpm) after a short time.
Then, after a while, the kernel task starts up to limit the temperature and reduce the load, and the device becomes unusable until you disconnect the monitor.

I have now once test a new 4K monitor and additionally a full HD monitor (1920 * 1080) connected (also with a USB-C -> HDMI adapter) and lo and behold:
The graphics card only draws 5-10 watts (in any case, no longer a constant 18W), which makes the fans run slower at about 3400 rpm (they are still audible, hence the docking station, see below).
Likewise, when only the Full HD monitor is connected, or when I lower the resolution of the other monitor from 2560 * 1080 to 1920 * 1080.
This was a pure chance find that more than surprised me and seems to confirm the thesis with the driver bug.

If it were really a pure overload, the problem should not decrease but on the contrary intensify when connecting a monitor with a higher resolution (and a second one).
So the problem seems to exist only at certain resolutions (at least for me).

Of course, I can't speak for all constellations, but feel free to try it out yourself, maybe it will help one or the other.
For me, the whole thing was reproducible - but only after I figured it out.
Nobody expects that the MBP runs more smoothly with a monitor with a higher resolution and a second monitor.


I have now opted (instead of a new 4K monitor) for a DisplayLink docking station (only the iGPU is used, as the docking station handles the rendering with its DisplayLink driver) to solve this problem.
When browsing, the fans even only run at 1600 (minimum) - 2000 rpm instead of 5400 rpm.
Now the part is really absolutely quiet and almost inaudible while surfing (a dream compared to before).
This is obviously nothing for graphics-intensive applications.
But I don't use those, and the silence/fan speed below 2000 rpm is more important to me than graphics power ;-)
Therefore, it became the docking station and not a new 4K monitor.


The whole thing is an absolute shame.
To put it bluntly, the 2013 MBP runs even quieter and, on balance, smoother (because no kernel task kicks in).



In addition there is :

- the problem with the uncooled voltage transformers, which can also cause the fans to spin up:
https://www.reddit.com/r/macbookpro/comments/gs6bal
- as well as the overheating Thunderbolt controllers:

How to find cause of high kernel_task cpu usage?

Occasionally my machine will have a kernel_task instance max out the CPU: This can last from minutes to sometimes hours. The machine is effectively unusable in this state. Restarting doesn't help;...

apple.stackexchange.com

EDIT: OS
EDIT #2: VRM/TB controllers; OS
EDIT #3: Formatting

 

[tzamora]

Just wanted to give thanks to jasdjasd8sadkasjdah for the help, I was able to *finally* remove all the fans and coolers from my desktop and can finally work with my two 4k screens perfectly. I bought the DisplayLink docking station (https://plugable.com/products/ud-6950pdh) and now my macbook pro only uses iGPU leveraging the heavy work to the docking station
What a ride have been since I bought this machine in 2019 trying to solve this problem! Until today!

 

[jasdjasd8sadkasjdah]

Hi tzamora,


thank you very much for the praise


But absolutely nothing to thank, I'm glad if the post helped even one.
I think I even got the idea from a poster here.


Please note that some (especially graphics intensive applications) "force" the dedicated graphics, so then the dedicated GPU is used anyway and the fans spin.
You can check this e.g. with iStatMenus (if you put the CPU menu item in the menu bar and click on it - although it's called "CPU"), or (I'm not sure) in the activity monitor.


However, this did not happen with me.


Just try it out - it depends on your use case.
For everyday life for me absolutely sufficient, even my VMs (if you disable the "maximum performance" (Parallels) in the VMs advanced graphics settings) work without using the dGPU.




EDIT:

And for ppl not familiar with these kind of docks: Please don't forget to install - if necessary - the DisplayLink manager:

DisplayLink macOS Software for Downloads Section | Synaptics

WindowsmacOSAndroidChrome OSUbuntuCorpo

www.synaptics.com

Important!
It *HAS* to be a DisplayLink capable docking station for this workaround to work, not just a "normal" one

 

[appleii.c]

Just wanted to post my experience here in case it helps someone:

I was having issues with my external 27" LG monitor, connected to a 2019 MBP, causing my fans to continuously spin up, heating up the laptop. I had noticed that the refresh rates were different between the laptop and the external monitor (60hz vs 75 hz). Once I set them both to 60hz, the fan kick up and heat seemed to drop quite a bit. I wonder if the CPU was having a hard time with the two separate refresh rates. Just a thought.

One other question, i noticed some of you listed the power consumption. How can I see the wattage my external monitor is drawing? I'm only seeing the energy impact in the activity monitor.

 

[jasdjasd8sadkasjdah]

You can check this with a program like iStatMenus, but it tells you how many watts the graphics chip "uses", not the monitor.

 

[ThunderSkunk]

After 3 years of tinkering, my final working solution is:
MBP16 5500m
+
Great bigass maxed 2019 iMac27
=
max horsepower & serviceable/upgradable on my desk, and a pretty powerful (for a notebook) one for the road that‘ll get used sparingly enough the ssd won’t die soon & carry the whole machine into the trash any time soon. 1TB of files sync’d across all by Dropbox on Mac & windows.

Apples refusal to address this costly problem with a path forward for us, or even acknowledge it at all, put an end to any further purchases from my company, so I’m going to enjoy these while they last.

 

[quirkz]

Latest 13.1 ventura seems to have significantly improved things for me at least. Things went downhill with ventura, with my 2019 16" 5500M seriously underclocking even without being plugged in to an external monitor. It's now running a lot better after I updated this morning.
Curious to hear if it's helped anyone else.

 

[tasuken]

Oh, this issue is still being talked about. I too have suffered for years.

In my case, the external monitor issue is the same, and the heat is out of control when video conferencing as well. Lots of graphics board related issues. Much worse than people using lower spec Macbooks.

It is obvious that it is Apple's problem since so many people are suffering. I heard there was talk of filing a lawsuit, and I really hope they do.

https://www.reddit.com/r/macbook/comments/pksg9n

 

[Verona95]

Hello fellas,

This is incredible... Three years and Apple/AMD hasn't come up with a solution. I'm struggling for 2 years to find a solution, which partially arrived with Monterey in mid-2022. I say partially because the heating seemed to be fixed when using 1080p external monitors like one that I use at work (Samsung) and at home (my wife's-DELL). However, when the MBP16 is connected to my home monitor (LG 34" Ultrawide FHD 75Hz 5ms GTG IPS LED Monitor (34WN650-W)) with the lid open, the dGPU reaches 19-20W.

Like everyone here, I tried different cables, ports and nothings seemed to work. However, last night I noticed that using in clamshell mode and the monitor at 75Hz, the eGPU power consumption goes down to 5-7W. If I change to 60Hz the issues comes back to use 20W regardless of how you use the MBP16 (with the lid open or closed).

Now, I need to decide to:

- Use my wife's monitor
- Buy a DisplayLink capable docking station as many have suggested (not sure which one to buy)
- Buy a 4K monitor

Well, thanks for all the info in this thread. It helped a lot.

 

[ferbandie]

Ventura have a nice bug with the macbook pro 16 2019 that's when you use the radio in the music app automatically switch from the intel graphics to the Amd graphics, destroying the battery life.

 

[apr]

13.1 fixed the windowserver crash for me.
The power consumption improved, it is "normal" again as in monterey.

 

[Yurk]

Does macos ventura 13.2 still have issues with GPU power consumption on external displays, or the windows server? We have two Intel 16" MacBooks, mine with a 5500m and my wife's with a 5600m, and we keep them both on Monterrey. Just wondering if we should hold off on updating to Ventura.

 

[Yurk]

Ventura have a nice bug with the macbook pro 16 2019 that's when you use the radio in the music app automatically switch from the intel graphics to the Amd graphics, destroying the battery life.

Is this still present in MacOS 13.2?

 

[ferbandie]

Is this still present in MacOS 13.2?

yes

 

[akke4323]

16 inch 5300m base model. There is no problem with Ventura 13.2. I have tested with 2x 4k monitor + macbook's display and Radeon High Side consumes around 15W.

The only problem that I have when iGPU is available I have a lag while typing.

 

[Captain Trips]

16 inch 5300m base model. There is no problem with Ventura 13.2. I have tested with 2x 4k monitor + macbook's display and Radeon High Side consumes around 15W.

The only problem that I have when iGPU is available I have a lag while typing.

I also have the 219 16" base model and it is running the latest Ventura (13.2).

I use Macs Fan Control and when I have 3 external Dell 27" monitors connected using USB-C to DP adapters the temperatures get up 120 - 125 F. Not too bad.

When I have no external monitors connected and Macs Fan Control is running, the temperatures get up in the 80 - 90 F range.

In both cases, I have the fans running about 4,000 RPM.

 

[Total Societal Collapse]

Well, at least I'm not alone.

I too have a 2019 16" Macbook Pro, pretty much maxed out the CPU, GPU, and RAM options at the time I bought it. I also got 2 Samsung 34" wide monitors with Thunderbolt 3 so that I could have both monitors and power running through one cable into my MBP. I don't remember having any problems with this set up for at least a year or so but at some point I believe an OS update introduced the now well documented issues with external monitors causing overheating. According to other posts, that may have been some time in 2022 but it seems like I have had major issues for a long time now.

I started off trying to troubleshoot the issue as a "kernel task issue," since I would mainly notice the extremely high CPU usage and unusable performance when using my displays usually with video streaming on one monitor and working on the other. But after trying all the commonly mentioned remedies nothing would work and I just gave up using 2 monitors and would stick to 1 screen at time until I could spend more time trying to fix it.

But then I realized that the fans are still running very loudly even when the computer is totally idle. I recently decided to completely erase my hard drive and reinstall MacOS and update to the latest version. I was hoping I would be able to return to the days of side by side ultra wide monitors but alas as soon as the fresh system was up and running I hooked up the monitors and fans were blasting and kernel task was going wild once again.

I then did more research focusing on the monitor side of things and started to find a lot more information regarding the problem of the 16" 2019 Macbook Pro overheating with external monitors. At this point, I have tried a usb-c to usb-c cable, thunderbolt 3 cable, usb-c to hdmi cable, every monitor resolution and refresh rate, and every combination of display and power cables plugged into different ports. Nothing I can do prevents my Macbook fans from running at 5600/5200 rpm when I plug in just one of my external monitors, and if I plug both monitors or try to run any application that is even moderately cpu intensive, kernel task is likely to kick in and make the computer unusable in order to save itself form heat damage. So kernel task has not been the culprit all along, but rather there is a heat generation issue, likely from the GPU, and kernel task is responding appropriately to prevent further CPU heat generation. I haven't monitored the GPU wattage draw, just the fan speeds and temperatures, but where else would that level of heat come from inside in the laptop when Activity Monitor doesn't show any high CPU usage.

This is my 5th or 6th apple computer that I have used, most of them issued to me for work, but the second one that I have bought and paid for myself. My first was the original 27" imac in 2009, and I loved that thing although after a year or so I began to have the spinner icon show up again and again and my imac would become unusable and freeze. After a year of dealing with that issue and no solutions eventually it became evident that the hard drive was failing and causing the problem. Apple would not warranty it and I had to pay to replace it, until several years later when there finally a quiet recall that allowed me to get a small reimbursement for my troubles.

I'm not holding my breath on this one. Apple seems to be consistently degrading their products at this point. I remember when a OS update meant a smaller system footprint and better performance for older products. Now, an update means new redundant applications like freeform, useless os features like stage manager or whatever it's called, and completely inexcusable issues like the one that everyone is forced to deal with here.

It's no wonder I've found so much enjoyment in gardening over the last year. My plants don't overheat and become nonfunctioning because of someone else's incompetence at their profession, generally.

Good riddance, Apple.

 

[apr]

The windowserver crash is fixed in 13.2. For me the apple music radio not switching to AMD graphics. Seems apple music always switch to AMD grahics according to the activity monitor. However this cause no siggnificant AMD power consumption, and not leads to fan ramp up, strange.

I get overheating and high fan rpm, when turboboost is on and some windows vm goes rouge or copying large files over wired connection (thunderbolt overheat).
Switching on LPM mode or using turboboost switcher usually fix cpu overheat. The thunderbolt overheat is impossible to fix, this is a hardware design fault.

 

[Camarillo Brillo]

Man, I’m glad I sold my 16” when I did and got an M1. I did lose money but even the lowest spec m1s outperform the overpriced upgraded i9 16” I bought.

 

[ChelseaDrew]

Fans still go like crazy here with Ventura at the slightest amount of activity. Just playing back a video in Safari is enough to start the jet engine.

LPM still very much necessary in my case.

I know it is horrible. For what I use my 2019 16" Pro for I don't really need anymore power but if they really do come out with a 15" Air I may have to sale this and get one. I am just using safari and they are going nuts. May re name it "only fans!" lol For real though it sounds as if it is about to take off.

 

[TBoneMac]

I have an Acer KA2 272

It‘s 1080p 75hz and 27 inches, IPS display. I connect it with the official apple adapter (has all of these ports USB, USBC, HDMI port) via HDMI.

It seems to work perfectly for the most part though sometimes I experience 450-500% CPU load on “kernal_task” when I check in activity monitor though I’m not certain this is due to the monitor or due to having the monitor plugged as well as charging my ipad through my macbook (I think it’s the latter)

 

[TBoneMac]

The thunderbolt overheat is impossible to fix, this is a hardware design fault.

Hello what do you mean by this

I would like to know more about this. I have a 2017 15inch MacBook Pro. Do I have this thunderbolt overheat issue on my mac? What is it and what can I do to “avoid“ it as much as possible?

 

[jasdjasd8sadkasjdah]

Hello what do you mean by this

I would like to know more about this. I have a 2017 15inch MacBook Pro. Do I have this thunderbolt overheat issue on my mac? What is it and what can I do to “avoid“ it as much as possible?

See my post here:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/2019-16-is-hot-noisy-with-an-external-monitor.2211747/post-31769650

or directly here:

How to find cause of high kernel_task cpu usage?

Occasionally my machine will have a kernel_task instance max out the CPU: This can last from minutes to sometimes hours. The machine is effectively unusable in this state. Restarting doesn't help;...

apple.stackexchange.com

 

[apr]

Hello what do you mean by this

I would like to know more about this. I have a 2017 15inch MacBook Pro. Do I have this thunderbolt overheat issue on my mac? What is it and what can I do to “avoid“ it as much as possible?

If you use an usb-c gigabit ethernet adapter (manufacturer not relevant), and you copy large files over it (many gigabytes), the thunderbolt components inside the macbook simple overheats. In this case the system spins up a fake kernel task (500% CPU or similar), which will force fans ramp up to start cooling. Great design! (This is not 16 specific, I had the same experience with 15 inch model.)