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2019 'Alien' Mac Pro - can someone please explain why it is so expensive?
- Thread starter iBrooker
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I recognize that the gaming MB is a gaming MB, but i chose it because it was the only single socket, 12dimm board that i thought could be compatible with as yet unreleased xeon-w chips, not to mention that the MB that apple is using is a custom made board, that is double sided with those mpx slots with 500w of power delivery on each of them.
The Radeon RX 580 is NOT the same as the Radeon Pro 580X. The Pro 580X is a workstation grade card and the RX 580 is a desktop gaming card, they may have similar (nay, identical) specs, but are validated for different things and have different drivers. I chose the WX 7100 because it is a commercially available version of the Pro 580X that i could price out.
For the power-supply i chose the highest rated > 1200W power supply that i could find on newegg. and again, its just a stand in for what i assume is an in-house built apple power supply.
I am sorry that i do not have insight into how apple prices their products, i took a stab at attempting to price out the "workstation" components that would need to come together in the build.
I don't want to sound glib, or come across as someone who knows your business - because I don't. But at a top level I see you've been making it work with a 10-year-old Mac Pro, max'd out beyond what it was originally spec'd for. It is a big leap from this to the next MP, which holds every promise of being configurable for the next 10 years (socketed m.2s and memory, PCIe everything). And if the entry price is too steep, it sounds like you've identified some pretty beefy alternatives.
For myself, I'll come to a decision in the next few months on whether to jump from FCPX to Resolve, which frees me up to work on nearly any OS. A dedicated NLE platform doesn'tt mean I can't use Macs for everything else.
That's because there are plenty of options for that market anyway - the iMac Pro is more than enough power for everyone up to the next level of Mac Pro - hell the standard iMac is more than enough power for the pro-sumer. There is absolutely no need for anyone below a Mac Pro to have a "modular device" other than they're hoping to save some money building it. That's literally the only reason. There's is nothing they could do better with that system they couldn't do with an iMac or iMac Pro.
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Yeah every part you listed is wrong - a motherboard which supports 1.5TB in ram with those PCI-E slots is over £2000 alone, you've just picked a load of budget consumer parts.
The processor is over £3000 - check it properly, it's closer to the Xeon Gold line.
Have a look at speccing up the same Dell or HP workstation, they're all higher cost than the Mac Pro and NO they aren't 3x the price of the component parts or ripping a customer off - this is the pro level workstation market, not the "bloke Macrumors forum who can build a better computer out of bits from a computer fair"
Read and learn: https://twitter.com/gabesalkin/status/1135934111451942912
https://twitter.com/Cruftbox/status/1135645748945534976
At the same time, the early tower Mac Pro was a low-end to mid-range workstation. It lacked expandability and features to be a truly high-end workstation. The new Mac Pro is clearly a platform for building very powerful configurations (even though, still limited to single CPU). The lower end is now taken by iMac Pro. I understand that is not what some wanted, but I guess this kind of segmentation makes sense.
I miss the days when the new "base price" for the top of the line computer was $2,499. Sure... inflation... so $3,000? But I get that this workstation is not designed for the consumer... or prosumer in any way. It's meant for professionals, not instagram influencers. I can't even comment if there's value for pro's here. Maybe there is... but I wouldn't know because I'm sure not a pro. I just wish there was a consumer version that offered a bit of modularity.
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Exactly. There's now a chasm gap between the consumer and the professional. No blurred lines.
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Exactly. There's now a chasm gap between the consumer and the professional. No blurred lines.
I don't understand why everyone is so blind here. Everyone is using the Xeon W-3223 as the CPU for price but Apple is not using that CPU. That CPU only has 16.5 MB of cache, Apple base CPU has 24.5 MB of cache. The CPU Apple is using is not in Arc and will not be $750 like everyone else is saying.
I don't understand why everyone is missing this. All of the CPU's Apple is using have much more cache and a higher TDP so you don't know what CPU they are using and pricing using something that isn't available is stupid.
I don't understand why everyone is missing this. All of the CPU's Apple is using have much more cache and a higher TDP so you don't know what CPU they are using and pricing using something that isn't available is stupid.
I don't understand how can't you see that Intel lists only L3 cache as its "SmartCache", while Apple adds L2 and L3 together. 24.5=16.5+8.
Apple have added the L2 cache and L3 cache together for their CPU page. The W-3223 has 8MB of L2 cache. It is 100% the W-3223.
L2 cache is faster than L3 and these Xeons having such high, and varying, amounts (The W-3275M has 28MB!) is important.
99.9% of people who would need and use this, the price for this, even super spec'd, is chump change.
I'm curious where this number is found? Them adding L2 and L3 cache. Was it something mentioned in the presentation. I was under the impression too that the CPU is something similar to a Xeon Gold 6234. However, I'm just looking at Apple's (annoying) Technical Specifications page. The range of CPU gave some justification to the price. Although seemed baffling why they'd use such an expensive Xeon model for the base.
At least now that I'm aware that the L2 + L3 is added together for Apple's marketing. The Xeon W-32XX series makes perfect sense. As each model matches in terms of specs for RAM speed, Cache and Memory limitations. Although I'm unclear as to why the 24 core and 28 core models are limited to 1.5TB when the -M models support 2TB.
I don't recall if it was true for later models. I remember when pricing out the earlier models. Using similar workstation components at the time. It was hard to beat Apple's price going the DIY route and Dell's workstations cost more for the same specs.
Look at iMac Pro, the CPU models are already known and just compare Intel specs with Apple. Same story.
Correct. The definition of a "Pro" is someone who pays $8000 for $3000 worth of hardware. /s
Seriously though, 3 things:
1. Even a box of the EXACT part numbers that we can match on the open market, this has a MASSIVE markup from what we know.
2. It's a dumb thing to compare the costs of the exact part numbers because, wait for it... WHY WOULD YOU BUY THESE PARTS, if given the choice? Threadripper is way better at the same price point. It's easy to say "Intel part number #4324234 is $10,000, therefore this is a bargain," the real question is: At this price, what kind of features and power can you get from existing options. Who the heck cares how much Intel charges for a specific part? If machine X is cheaper for the features/support and benchmarks faster, machine X is better. Done. Quibbling over the open market price of specific components is really just a catharsis for people who have buyers' remorse because they got ripped off.
3. the killer feature of this machine is something 99.999% of us will never use: 128GB of high bandwidth GPU memory in a single pool. To get THAT feature you have to buy enterprise-level hardware which costs way more.
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Even the display turns out cheap compared to the Eizo ColorEdge CG319X 31.1" which costs also more than 5000$ and has only 4K an HDR, no fancy thunderbolt 3 hookup station
I think Eizo ColorEdge Monitor will do the colour calibration for you or you can do it manual process but the real question that can Apple Pro display do that for you? They properly calibrated from the manufacturer - you will need to buy external color calibration device.
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Obviously, most of the components will be custom made for Apple but don’t forget that Apple can afford to buy the bulk parts at very cheap price.
If the R&D team waste so much money but it's not our fault right? why should we pay overprice for their mistake?
Not plenty of options. Dell and HP have plenty of options. They simply do not have a desktop tower option and historically the Mac Pro was a lower priced workstation tower which filled the needs of power desktop users because they started at a cost of around $2700-$3000(adjusting for inflation). Now it's a $6000 starting price computer that quite frankly has poor specs on paper in it's base configuration.
I'm not understanding this logic. You are basically stating the desktop towers are useless? How?
No i'm not, i'm saying Apple has it right - and those declaring they now need a "mid-level one" the mid-level pro is already served by the iMac and the iMac Pro.
There is no argument against that other than "but I want a desktop tower to have the same power but make it cheaper" which case, use a PC and build it yourself like actual working professionals dont.
BOX workstation with similar specs as base New Mac Pro is even more expensive and both can be easily beaten by any i7 9900k CPU based PC.
Workstations like BOOX, Mac Pro or desktop PCs can be used for serious work. Question is why and weather you need a workstation or maybe desktop PC will be enough.
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A desktop pc/mac would be enough, but all that's on offer is a high end laptop with a honking great monitor stuck to it.
All-in-ones are not towers. This is like trying to argue SUVs are substitutes for pickup trucks.
Correction; "but I want a desktop tower to have the more power, expandability and it is cheaper". Not everyone wants an all-in-one glossy monitor.
Similar response back in 2013 when Apple released the trashcan and legit pros didn't like it.
Basically you want it all for less, which is exactly what I said - you can run any monitor you want off the iMac or iMac Pro. Though you'd be mad to want any other 27" IPS 60hz monitor than the one it comes with - the only upgrade is if you need bigger, or higher refresh rates (for gaming), or HDR ala Apples new monitor which is obviously not for that target audience either and you don't need.
back in 2008, or thereabouts, b&o released a television that stuck out a camera on a robot arm so that it could autocalibrate...
Wow, I didnt know about that. I just saw from the website regarding Apple Pro Display XDR's calibration process.
No it's not.
Apple are either being deliberately obtuse or are playing games.
When people were crying out for an upgradeable desktop Mac (i.e traditionally a Mac Pro) they were thinking more along the lines of the original cheese grater Mac Pro - i.e a desktop Mac that users can upgrade themselves, whether that's a better GPU, upgraded memory, additional internal hard drives and even a better CPU should one come along in a few years time.
Instead Apple completely ignored us and yet again think they know what's best ("here have an iMac - it's more suited to you" something we specifically did -not- want).
What they have done with the new Mac Pros has made me dislike them even more. I just wish there was an OS as good as OS X out there, I would switch in a heart-beat.
Apple make great products and it used to be a great customer-centric company, but time and time again they have shown they don't care about us anymore, not really - if they did, they would make products that we actually want (not products that we might begrudgingly buy because we have little other choice if we want to use OS X*).
*Even OS X is following this Apple trend - ever update to it slows my computer down and makes it feel more sluggish than the last one. Something people have become accustomed to with iOS!