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gazwas

macrumors 6502
Aug 11, 2008
350
301
Hm I didn’t exhaustively test the exportin performance in C1, but the UI is MUCH better than Lightroom for sure!

the machine is certainly software capped right now, if you don’t use Apple software like final cut or (I dare to say it - the photos app). In those apps you can see what it’s capable of. If the software will ever catch up is another question.
It felt like after about 4-5 years developers caught up with the trashcan, but at that moment the GPU and IO were so outdated that it didn’t make sense anymore.
Sure I’m a FCP user and positive I’d be extremely happy but I do more stills photography than video and currently this new Mac Pro looks like the FCPX users wet dream.

However, for the rest of us this amazingly powerful and beautifully engineered computer just can’t be used to its full potential as current photography software can’t tap into all the cores on offer, doesn’t use the GPU efficiently, can’t uses anywhere near the amount of potential RAM available or seems to hog GPU RAM until it brings any acceleration to a halt.

One of the yet to be released intel i9 10th gen 10 core furnace CPU’s with their higher clock and turbo look to be an ideal candidate for a photographers Mac Pro over current offerings. ?
 
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vinegarshots

macrumors 6502a
Sep 24, 2018
983
1,350
Sure I’m a FCP user and positive I’d be extremely happy but I do more stills photography than video and currently this new Mac Pro looks like the FCPX users wet dream.

However, for the rest of us this amazingly powerful and beautifully engineered computer just can’t be used to its full potential as current photography software can’t tap into all the cores on offer, doesn’t use the GPU efficiently, can’t uses anywhere near the amount of potential RAM available or seems to hog GPU RAM until it brings any acceleration to a halt.

One of the yet to be released intel i9 10th gen 10 core furnace CPU’s with their higher clock and turbo look to be an ideal candidate for a photographers Mac Pro over current offerings. ?

My 8 core iMac Pro with Vega 56 benchmarks on par with my i9 PC workstation with a Nvidia 1080ti. UI performance in Adobe apps is similar as long as they are set to low resolution mode on the Mac (PC monitor is 1080p).

But at the native 5K of the iMac , Adobe UIs are sluggish. Worst offenders are Lightroom Classic, Audition, Photoshop, and Illustrator. AE and Premiere aren’t as bad in my experience, but ALL of Adobes software is unoptimized, slow, and outdated. They mostly prefer strong single core performance over multi core, so you end up getting better performance from the 8 core Xeon instead of the 16+.

When people were on these forums ordering their Mac Pros with XDR displays primarily for Adobe Creative Suite apps, I tried to warn them that they were going to be disappointed... ?
 
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Adult80HD

macrumors 6502a
Nov 19, 2019
701
837
My 8 core iMac Pro with Vega 56 benchmarks on par with my i9 PC workstation with a Nvidia 1080ti. UI performance in Adobe apps is similar as long as they are set to low resolution mode on the Mac (PC monitor is 1080p).

But at the native 5K of the iMac , Adobe UIs are sluggish. Worst offenders are Lightroom Classic, Audition, Photoshop, and Illustrator. AE and Premiere aren’t as bad in my experience, but ALL of Adobes software is unoptimized, slow, and outdated. They mostly prefer strong single core performance over multi core, so you end up getting better performance from the 8 core Xeon instead of the 16+.

When people were on these forums ordering their Mac Pros with XDR displays primarily for Adobe Creative Suite apps, I tried to warn them that they were going to be disappointed... ?

Mostly correct for Lightroom *except* for import/export/1:1 preview generation. Those currently use all the cores, and they are much, much faster in Lightroom on my 16-core Mac Pro than on my i9 16" MBP. It's very noticeable for the larger Sony A7R IV files.

I'm not sure I'd say Adobe prefers strong single core, but rather that certain tasks in those apps simply don't parallelize well, and Adobe has always focused on features rather than performance. That said, the horrendous performance on higher-resolution displays is pretty inexcusable as it's been known now for several years, and gradually everyone is moving to 4K/higher resolution displays, both PC and Mac. I don't know of any other applications that do so poorly with those displays, so there's something weird about Adobe's UI implementations.
 
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vinegarshots

macrumors 6502a
Sep 24, 2018
983
1,350
Mostly correct for Lightroom *except* for import/export/1:1 preview generation. Those currently use all the cores, and they are much, much faster in Lightroom on my 16-core Mac Pro than on my i9 16" MBP. It's very noticeable for the larger Sony A7R IV files.

I'm not sure I'd say Adobe prefers strong single core, but rather that certain tasks in those apps simply don't parallelize well, and Adobe has always focused on features rather than performance. That said, the horrendous performance on higher-resolution displays is pretty inexcusable as it's been known now for several years, and gradually everyone is moving to 4K/higher resolution displays, both PC and Mac. I don't know of any other applications that do so poorly with those displays, so there's something weird about Adobe's UI implementations.

I’m actually impressed that Adobe managed to figure out how to use multiple cores efficiently in some part of Lightroom. ? I’m still bitter that they pulled the multi core rendering function from AE about 5 years ago and never reimplemented it...
 

chfilm

macrumors 68040
Nov 15, 2012
3,428
2,113
Berlin
Maybe its about time Apple re-release Aperture and made it the FCPX for photographers on the Mac Pro.
Oh god that would be so awesome!
Heck that’s why we’re in this dilemma in the first place, cause they discontinued it, almost like what they did when they renewed FCP and everybody migrated to premiere and now look what we have... :(
 

zhpenn

macrumors regular
Original poster
Aug 27, 2014
240
100
I have installed the VII, but I did not feel any speed differences on Lightroom performanceo_O

MP2.jpg
 
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zhpenn

macrumors regular
Original poster
Aug 27, 2014
240
100
Looks sexy, but Lightroom still doesn't make good use of the Hardware we throw at it. Only on export the MP 7,1 is very fast ?
Yes, export is very fast, and also make sure install 6 same size DIMMs will improve even more speed.

 

simonnelli

macrumors member
Jun 21, 2012
57
30
Yes, export is very fast, and also make sure install 6 same size DIMMs will improve even more speed.


Jep using 6x 32GB for a Total of 192GB. Can easily see usage of 100GB in LR/PS use. Great update from my maxed out 2014 iMac (32GB). Now waiting (praying) Adobe will get their act together.
 
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Average Pro

macrumors 6502
Jul 16, 2013
473
194
Cali
Have we reached the conclusion that, for photographers using LR, there is no justification/rush to purchase anything beyond the Radeon Pro 580X, at this time?

I did note the comments by our forum members with respect to the significant improvement in import/export and 1:1 previews - always great to receive good news.

And, I'll say it again...thank you, thank you, thank you for running these tests and sharing the results.
 

libertyranger10

macrumors regular
Jun 10, 2011
130
16
Jep using 6x 32GB for a Total of 192GB. Can easily see usage of 100GB in LR/PS use. Great update from my maxed out 2014 iMac (32GB). Now waiting (praying) Adobe will get their act together.

LR is using 100gb of ram?
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Have we reached the conclusion that, for photographers using LR, there is no justification/rush to purchase anything beyond the Radeon Pro 580X, at this time?

I did note the comments by our forum members with respect to the significant improvement in import/export and 1:1 previews - always great to receive good news.

And, I'll say it again...thank you, thank you, thank you for running these tests and sharing the results.

agreed
 

McCrab

macrumors member
Feb 11, 2006
38
28
I'm going to play around in CaptureOne 20 next. I use both tools quite a bit.

Any update/report on how C1-20 has been performing?
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Now that I've been using C1 for a few hours today I'm starting to get the hang of it, and I'm 95% sure I'm going to dump Lightroom and never look back.

Had the painful transition from Aperture to Lightroom, then Lightroom to C1. Wish I'd gone straight to C1 - the whole LR experience was a disaster. Workflow in C1 (especially if you work in Sessions) is much better - not perfect, but much better.

Hope the C1 team continues developing/optimising, especially now that Apple have a better MacPro on offer.
 
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zhpenn

macrumors regular
Original poster
Aug 27, 2014
240
100
Jep using 6x 32GB for a Total of 192GB. Can easily see usage of 100GB in LR/PS use. Great update from my maxed out 2014 iMac (32GB). Now waiting (praying) Adobe will get their act together.
Lightroom will not use that much RAM, in my export case just 16gb used RAM
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Have we reached the conclusion that, for photographers using LR, there is no justification/rush to purchase anything beyond the Radeon Pro 580X, at this time?

I did note the comments by our forum members with respect to the significant improvement in import/export and 1:1 previews - always great to receive good news.

And, I'll say it again...thank you, thank you, thank you for running these tests and sharing the results.
no anything beyond the Radeon Pro 580X, at this time?

In my case, NO, I am actually putting my VII on eBay for sale. :(
But in my case, I'm using a 2560x1600( non-4k display)
May be useful on 4k hidpi disply. but not sure.

Maybe LR future update may make more use of GPU, but not now.
 
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libertyranger10

macrumors regular
Jun 10, 2011
130
16
So do you have the new version now with the Vega II? That's currently what I am using. To me it's about as laggy as the 16" MBP when I use it with either the LG 5K or the XDR. So that part is a wash and I'm just dealing with it.

OK, I'm not. I tested ON1 and stay away. Clunky and slower than Lightroom. Tried Affinity Photo and the UI is pretty but way too limited in functionality and slow as well, at least for a lot of the tasks I do frequently. I'm now trying out Capture One. Massive learning curve but....the UI is super snappy. I need to learn a lot more to determine if it can replace Lightroom for me; my most important plugin works and I suspect everything else I really need to do will work for me as well.

I just did a few quick tests to compare some common tasks for me in Capture 1 and Lightroom. Importing 31 ARW files and generating 1:1 previews from my Sony A7R IV takes Capture 1 21.6 seconds; it takes Lightroom 45.7 seconds for the same batch. Round one, C1. Exporting the same 31 images to 2048-pixel (long edge) jpegs, C1 takes 11.1 seconds and Lightroom takes 8.1 seconds; Lightroom wins round two although the total time difference is pretty small. One task I do regularly is export images to HeliconFocus for focus stacking. It exports 16-bit TIFF files from both C1 and Lightroom. Here there is a big difference: From C1 it takes 87.9 seconds where as LR does the same files in 30.8 seconds; Lightroom wins round three. In defense of C1, they just recently started allowing plugins so it's possible the speed issue is with the plugin and not with C1. To test this, I tried a straight export to TIFF on both apps; C1 took 24.0 seconds and Lightroom took 30.9 seconds, so it appears that the plugin or the way C1 is handling plugin exports is at fault here. Regardless it's a slowdown in my workflow unless it's addressed.

As for browsing the same set of 31 raw files, the difference is like night and day. C1 just flies along, no problems at all. Zooming is instantaneous; even with 1:1 previews Lightroom hesitates. Spot healing--which I do a great deal of in my daily workflow--major advantage to C1. It's lightning fast, whereas Lightroom tends to bog down when you clone more than a few dust spots out, or mix dust spot cloning with things like lens corrections.

Interestingly enough, C1 also supports dual GPUs...and LR does not. Lots to think about here.
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As for the XDR I really love it. I got the nano version; I just don't like glossy screens. I know the regular XDR isn't really as glossy as the MBP's and the iMacs but...I prefer matte and no reflections. I want it to look like it will look in a print, and I never get glossy prints either. It's glorious being able to see things up close and edit the fine details in context without scrolling all around.

It does tax Lightroom even more though. It's just quite frankly a very poorly-coded application and they need to spend some serious time fixing it. Based on my limited tests today I am 90% sure I'm going to switch to C1, after over ten years of using LR. I'm going to see how it goes over the next week and meanwhile reach out to the HeliconFocus developer about the speed of the exports; they're really responsive and if they can speed that up it would be awesome. That app was just upgraded to use the AVX-512 instructions and it also leverages the GPU. Stacking huge numbers of images on the Mac Pro is now a dream, super fast. If more developers used the power we have at hand it would be great. Adobe has the money to do so...they clearly just feel like it's not worth their time.


How has Capture 1 been treating you? Been reading up more on it with high resolution displays and am considering buying a copy when my XDR display comes in. I can't stand the lag much more of LR when it comes to editing.
 

Adult80HD

macrumors 6502a
Nov 19, 2019
701
837
How has Capture 1 been treating you? Been reading up more on it with high resolution displays and am considering buying a copy when my XDR display comes in. I can't stand the lag much more of LR when it comes to editing.

I ran into a few areas where my workflow was different enough from Lightroom that I held back on a full migration. One important area was exports to HeliconFocus--it's way slower under CaptureOne than it is for Lightroom, almost 50% slower. So for now I'm dealing with the shortcomings of Lightroom
[automerge]1581372243[/automerge]
Have we reached the conclusion that, for photographers using LR, there is no justification/rush to purchase anything beyond the Radeon Pro 580X, at this time?

I did note the comments by our forum members with respect to the significant improvement in import/export and 1:1 previews - always great to receive good news.

And, I'll say it again...thank you, thank you, thank you for running these tests and sharing the results.

It depends on the screen you use. If you're using a high-resolution display then I'd definitely get a better card than the 580x. I actually suspect that the upcoming Navi-based 5700x will be the ideal card as that architecture is performing extremely well on the 16" MBP.
 
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chfilm

macrumors 68040
Nov 15, 2012
3,428
2,113
Berlin
Latest update to LR:

View attachment 893629

Can't test on my 7,1 this Week, but Hooooooray for PSB-Support. Finally!
I can't believe it took them THIS many years to fix the issue where you couldn't chose where to display the secondary display. I complained about this about 4 years ago in the Adobe forums because it always would display the second screen on my projector instead of Display #2... if they'll continue at this pace, I think we might get smooth scrolling in 2025 ;)
 
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jcxstar13

macrumors member
Jun 27, 2007
42
35
La Crosse, WI
My machine is still very sluggish on image editing also, not just browsing. (Just made a quick video below. watch mouse delay). This is a straight raw file from camera with no other adjustments from a Sony A7RIV files (60+ megapixels). What size files are you playing with on your machine?

Mac Pro 7,1 16-core, 192GB ram, Vega II
LG 5K Display
Lightroom 9.1

(I just shrunk my window down to about 1/3rd of the 5k display and movements are much snappier).

I'm going to play around in CaptureOne 20 next. I use both tools quite a bit.

(Update: GPU accelerator got switched off somehow. Reset to auto there is now significant bump in performance, but browsing and all other modules on the 5K screen are still terribly sluggish)


So I have spent some serious time on the phone with both Adobe and Apple on this issue. It looks like its a pro Vega II issue with my benQ displays. I am assuming its the same with the LG that's what you have and I have a friend with the same displays and he has the same issue. Ive tried everything even running my 4k displays in 1080P and still was getting headaches and issues. Hooked it up to a totally different display and boom it worked as expected. So now I have both a Apple Pro XDR and an Eizo on the way and will test with both of those and keep the one that works and hopefully looks better.

Just wanted to give an update to what I have found out. Hopefully this solves the issue for me. Didn't wanna spend more money now but if this gets me back to working with out a headache its well worth it for me.
 
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Adult80HD

macrumors 6502a
Nov 19, 2019
701
837
So I have spent some serious time on the phone with both Adobe and Apple on this issue. It looks like its a pro Vega II issue with my benQ displays. I am assuming its the same with the LG that's what you have and I have a friend with the same displays and he has the same issue. Ive tried everything even running my 4k displays in 1080P and still was getting headaches and issues. Hooked it up to a totally different display and boom it worked as expected. So now I have both a Apple Pro XDR and an Eizo on the way and will test with both of those and keep the one that works and hopefully looks better.

Just wanted to give an update to what I have found out. Hopefully this solves the issue for me. Didn't wanna spend more money now but if this gets me back to working with out a headache its well worth it for me.

What other display did you connect, and what was the resolution of that display?
 

libertyranger10

macrumors regular
Jun 10, 2011
130
16
So I have spent some serious time on the phone with both Adobe and Apple on this issue. It looks like its a pro Vega II issue with my benQ displays. I am assuming its the same with the LG that's what you have and I have a friend with the same displays and he has the same issue. Ive tried everything even running my 4k displays in 1080P and still was getting headaches and issues. Hooked it up to a totally different display and boom it worked as expected. So now I have both a Apple Pro XDR and an Eizo on the way and will test with both of those and keep the one that works and hopefully looks better.

Just wanted to give an update to what I have found out. Hopefully this solves the issue for me. Didn't wanna spend more money now but if this gets me back to working with out a headache its well worth it for me.

Looking forward to your results with the new displays.
 

jcxstar13

macrumors member
Jun 27, 2007
42
35
La Crosse, WI
What other display did you connect, and what was the resolution of that display?

All I had around here was a old dell 22" 1080P monitor. Lightroom worked like it does on my 16"MBP and on my old Mac Pro. And I ran both of the 4k displays at 1080p with a lot of testing with both apple and adobe and it was still choppy and a pain to work on. A new monitor and it worked like it should. We'll see the Eizo will be here Tuesday, the XDR however not till March 16th.
 

jcxstar13

macrumors member
Jun 27, 2007
42
35
La Crosse, WI
Brought my old Thunderbolt Display home from the office today and tested it. Lightroom worked great on it. I think there is def something going on with the graphics cards and the benQ 4k and LG 5k displays. I have a friend that has a 4k LG that I might go pick up to test.
 
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