MP 7,1 2019 Mac Pro worth it for 5+ years of use?

[JoSch]

Well, we don't know. But, Apple very publicly stated, that they screwed up with the 6,1.
They did go to great length at building a system which is not that suspectible to heat problems as the 6,1.
Whether they will again do year cycle update or a two one, we will see, but it will most certainly not be 6 years.

 

[Ph.D.]

Well, we don't know. But, Apple very publicly stated, that they screwed up with the 6,1.

It's my opinion that this claim about power consumption was a smoke-screen for their simple lack of effort.

Now, admittedly, having a single "thermal core" that coupled all three main components (CPU and GPUs) together was indeed a mistake, and a simple one that could have easily been avoided if the "form over function" aspect of the design hadn't been elevated above good engineering sense.

But I can think of no reason why Apple could not have upgraded the CPU and GPUs over all those years, even if they had to use some of the stronger "mobility" GPUs that had been available, etc. Nor was it acceptable to allow the USB and Thunderbolt connectivity to languish in out-of-date forms for that long.

Again this is just my semi-informed opinion.

 

[JoSch]

The CPU needs to be pro grade, because ECC-RAM is key. That rules out nothing other than Xeons. And the GPUs need to be more precise in calculations, because correct arithmetics are more important than speed (this is not a gaming machine) in this kind of computer.
My wild guess is, that Intel promised them some 7nm Xeons, which they couldn't deliver.

 

[goMac]

The CPU needs to be pro grade, because ECC-RAM is key. That rules out nothing other than Xeons. And the GPUs need to be more precise in calculations, because correct arithmetics are more important than speed (this is not a gaming machine) in this kind of computer.
My wild guess is, that Intel promised them some 7nm Xeons, which they couldn't deliver.

This is what killed the 6,1.

Everyone promised them smaller and cooler components, when they only delivered larger and hotter components. Look at the die size of a modern Xeon vs a 2013 era Xeon. The chips have literally gotten dramatically physically bigger.

Apple could have used lower end/cooler components in the 6,1. Mid-er end GPUs, maybe an i7. But it would have pushed them right out of the workstation market.

 

[Flint Ironstag]

This is what killed the 6,1.

Everyone promised them smaller and cooler components, when they only delivered larger and hotter components. Look at the die size of a modern Xeon vs a 2013 era Xeon. The chips have literally gotten dramatically physically bigger.

Apple could have used lower end/cooler components in the 6,1. Mid-er end GPUs, maybe an i7. But it would have pushed them right out of the workstation market.

I don't know. They could've used the newer components and done what they always do: underclock them and make bar graphs touting over-exaggerated performance gains over the previous generation.

 

[Onelifenofear]

Are you willing to pay a lot of money for very little performance? Are you willing to invest in a number of technologies that are at EoL (end of life) today?

The 7,1 will be obsolete on it's release date. The iMac Pro has all of the shortcomings of the 6,1 along with screen roulette.

Polaris (580) is 2 generations old. Vega is 1 generation back. PCIe 4.0 has already landed and PCIe 5 is right around the corner. MPX will only be supported by Apple, so any add-in modules will come with a premium. You won't be able to upgrade the SSD (because of T2).


If your workflow is CPU or GPU intensive, you should look outside of the Apple eco-system.

Disagree with this in every single way. Complete gibberish.

 

[Krevnik]

The one definite bit of bad news is that Apple came back to towers right as Intel is moving to a new socket for Xeon chips. So the 7,1 will only be able to use existing CPUs as aftermarket upgrades down the road. An 8,1 on Ice Lake may get a couple more generations of CPUs before it does.

 

[Ph.D.]

The one definite bit of bad news is that Apple came back to towers right as Intel is moving to a new socket for Xeon chips. So the 7,1 will only be able to use existing CPUs as aftermarket upgrades down the road.

True. Another reason to make the considered bet that this Mac Pro may be the last one of its kind (or any kind), doomed to languish without improvements like the 6,1?

 

[Flint Ironstag]

True. Another reason to make the considered bet that this Mac Pro may be the last one of its kind (or any kind), doomed to languish without improvements like the 6,1?

Bit pessimistic? They said they learned their lessons. We'll see. I do think it may end up like the 1,1 - big architecture improvements come relatively soon after launch. I'm thinking 8,1 will have some long legs.

 

[ssgbryan]

Disagree with this in every single way. Complete gibberish.

I guess it would be if you are technically illiterate.

 

[goMac]

I don't know. They could've used the newer components and done what they always do: underclock them and make bar graphs touting over-exaggerated performance gains over the previous generation.

The under clocking would be so significant it would just be wasting everyone's time. Everyone would just complain instead what a bad machine the Mac Pro was, and they still wouldn't buy them.

I'm not even sure you could under clock a modern Xeon to fit in that case. Not unless you stepped down to a really low end Xeon.

 

[Ph.D.]

Bit pessimistic? They said they learned their lessons. We'll see. I do think it may end up like the 1,1 - big architecture improvements come relatively soon after launch. I'm thinking 8,1 will have some long legs.

Heh, yeah. I'm not yet optimistic enough to think that we'll get yearly major updates like in days of old. Apple will have to prove themselves on that point. Plus, some aspects of the design, such as the Vega II's having 32 GB each, seem to whisper "this isn't being updated any time soon."

For me, it's either get a 7,1 at launch and enjoy it, or just blow it off for being too expensive for what it is. But having waited interminably for the 6,1 era to pass, I won't be playing the "one more year" waiting game.

 

[Derived]

When was the last time a major computer launched with so many EoL technologies on day 1?

What on earth are you talking about. This is a completely & totally nonsensical comment.

 

[Flint Ironstag]

What on earth are you talking about. This is a completely & totally nonsensical comment.

Probably PCIe 3 and the CPU socket. It's an accurate statement. However, if you have billable work to do on this machine at release, it won't matter.

 

[ssgbryan]

What on earth are you talking about. This is a completely & totally nonsensical comment.

What is the question of the thread?

2019 Mac Pro worth it for 5+ years of use? i.e. Can I use this in 2024?

I am sure it can be used, and possibly still productive in 2024 - I kept a PowerMac G5 going for a very long time - that said, it won't be all that productive in 2024 compared to what will also be available for purchase in Dec 2019.

PCIe 3.0 - Look at the threads on this forum. How many are about how to get today's tech working on their obsolete and obsolescent Mac Pros. The 7,1 owners will be doing this on day 1, when they aren't trying to convince themselves that much faster throughput isn't really all that important.

You can have PCIe 4.0 today with an AMD solution; 2020 for an Intel solution. PCIe 5.0 will arrive in 2021, just in time for the AM5 and TR5 sockets. Intel will have it available for server products in 2021, and probably in consumer level computers by 2022, assuming no more delays.

GCN video architecture - Polaris is 2 generations back, Vega is 1 generation back. The GCN architecture is AMD's past - RDNA is their current video architecture - will there be an MPX version of the RX 5700, RX 5700XT, or a big Navi card (due 1st half 2020). Based on past performance, do you think Apple will deliver?

28 core single CPU max in a 64 core single CPU max world. Flint Ironstag mentioned the socket - that is yet another plus for an EYPC or Threadripper (or even Ryzen 9) workstation. The current sockets will work through Zen 3. Oh, and AMD has a dual core EYPC solution also. Then there is the cost differential just in CPUs (and electricity).

Price/Performance ratio will be a joke from day 1 and it will get worse over time. Apple should have jumped over to AMD for CPUs. Ryzen on the low end (Mac mini/iMac), Threadripper on the high end (iMac Pro/Mac Pro).

As I have said before, the 7,1 would have been a great workstation in 2016. But in 2019, nope.

 

[Supermacguy]

Quite a discussion based on the OP's request and he/she hasn't even said if they are just web surfing and email, or FCPX with 4k video. What's "good for the OP" really depends on their uses. And they have made up their mind.

 

[ssgbryan]

I doubt many folks will spend $6,000+ on a Xeon based computer for web surfing and email.

I suspect the 7,1 will be great for FCPX and Logic, and not so great (price/performance ratio) at any other use case.

 

[Flint Ironstag]

I have a small consultancy in Houston. So many cMPs and 6,1s in service at clients' homes for web surfing and email - usually in their home office. There hasn't been a big spark of activity around the 7,1 yet, but Black Friday / Cyber Monday is right around the corner.

 

[fuchsdh]

The number of people rocking cheesegrater Mac Pros to date is pretty solid evidence that the 7,1 will last as long.

 

[Macpro2019]

when will it be out? end of sept?

 

[Ethosik]

Quite a discussion based on the OP's request and he/she hasn't even said if they are just web surfing and email, or FCPX with 4k video. What's "good for the OP" really depends on their uses. And they have made up their mind.

FCPX, Logic Pro, Adobe/Affinity work. Dual boot to Windows 10 for Visual Studio Development and gaming.

I record/edit/produce game development tutorials and some lets play content. I’m still on 1080p workflow but I use HEVC for file size benefits. There is no need for 4K video, but I do have some After Effects projects that are 4K. Logos and animations do not much.

 

[thevault]

Header should be MP 7.1 2020 not 2019.

 

[AidenShaw]

The number of people rocking cheesegrater Mac Pros to date is pretty solid evidence that the 7,1 will last as long.

And the number of trash cans literally sent to the trash because of GPU and heat issues could mean that the 7,1 could be another lemon.

You can't use the Apple ][ as a predictor for the 7,1.

 

[fuchsdh]

And the number of trash cans literally sent to the trash because of GPU and heat issues could mean that the 7,1 could be another lemon.

You can't use the Apple ][ as a predictor for the 7,1.

Apparently there's still plenty of trash cans still kicking in Hollywood to cause a stir when Avid borks it, so as with most hardware issues I think it's fair to say that those are not terminal hardware defects.

 

[AidenShaw]

Apparently there's still plenty of trash cans still kicking in Hollywood to cause a stir when Avid borks it, so as with most hardware issues I think it's fair to say that those are not terminal hardware defects.

Hard to say without knowing how many of the newly failing Hollywood trash cans are original, and how many have been replaced one or more times for GPU/thermal failures.

Anyway, it's becoming clear that the days of "it just works" are gone, and trying to blame component suppliers for Apple's failures just doesn't work.