For me, 256 is also a problem when it comes to the type of memory they are using and TBW, it is given the type of memory they use not enough.
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2021 and still only 256 GB in Apple Laptops
- Thread starter majormike
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If the SSD will last for the design life of the device, then what is the point in not using it to its fullest potential? It's like the RAM issue. What is the point of having RAM if the system isn't using it? As long as active apps have memory when needed, what is the point of having lots of RAM sitting there unused? Likewise, if the SSD will last the useable life of the machine, why be overly conservative about writing to it?
Arguably, the case Apple might make is that providing larger base storage is unnecessary in a world which is increasingly focused on cloud usage and sharing. As a cloud provider themselves, they likely see it as a win-win, reducing manufacturing costs and driving customers to their iCloud offering.
If you work that way, then 256 is probably more than enough. For a serious production machine or environment, probably not.
If you work that way, then 256 is probably more than enough. For a serious production machine or environment, probably not.
A couple observations as I read through the thread:
- The current M1 Macs (Air and 13" MBP) are the low-end models, and they start with 256gb SSD
- The high-end 13" MBP (still Intel, 4 TB3 ports) and the 16" both have 512gb SSD as the base model (along with 16gb ram)
- As such, it's probably a reasonable bet that once the 14"/16" ASi MBPs come out, they will also come with 16gb / 512gb as the base configuration.
I think it's very reasonable that Apple "lower end" laptop models start at what many ppl have agreed is a "fair" starting price, and that Apple feels in order to do that, they start at 256gb. I put in quotes because obviously people's needs widely vary, regardless of whether they are a "pro" or not. This allows a wider consumer base to buy in at lower price points.
Any "pros"/"pro-sumers" who likely need the power, and are in the market for higher-end 13" or 16", they already start at a base model of 16gb / 512gb.
I will also add that when looking at the lower-end base models that start at 256gb SSD, it's +$200 to go from 256gb > 512gb, but the same +$200 to go from 512gb > 1TB. So it's a somewhat separate point that it feels like a high premium to go from 256gb > 512gb, and I echo someone earlier in the thread that this may be a little bit of "the base model is cheaper than it should be" and the 512gb model is really the "right price", and Apple is sort of subsidizing the base 256gb model users to have an attractive entry price they can market off of.
- The current M1 Macs (Air and 13" MBP) are the low-end models, and they start with 256gb SSD
- The high-end 13" MBP (still Intel, 4 TB3 ports) and the 16" both have 512gb SSD as the base model (along with 16gb ram)
- As such, it's probably a reasonable bet that once the 14"/16" ASi MBPs come out, they will also come with 16gb / 512gb as the base configuration.
I think it's very reasonable that Apple "lower end" laptop models start at what many ppl have agreed is a "fair" starting price, and that Apple feels in order to do that, they start at 256gb. I put in quotes because obviously people's needs widely vary, regardless of whether they are a "pro" or not. This allows a wider consumer base to buy in at lower price points.
Any "pros"/"pro-sumers" who likely need the power, and are in the market for higher-end 13" or 16", they already start at a base model of 16gb / 512gb.
I will also add that when looking at the lower-end base models that start at 256gb SSD, it's +$200 to go from 256gb > 512gb, but the same +$200 to go from 512gb > 1TB. So it's a somewhat separate point that it feels like a high premium to go from 256gb > 512gb, and I echo someone earlier in the thread that this may be a little bit of "the base model is cheaper than it should be" and the 512gb model is really the "right price", and Apple is sort of subsidizing the base 256gb model users to have an attractive entry price they can market off of.
Given how slow SSD is on M1 I'm glad I didn't pay the excessive premium over the base 256GB. Apple charges $800 for 2TB upgrade while it costs me $315 for 2TB 980 Pro nVME PCIe 4.0, $250 for 2TB 970 Plus nVME PCIe 3.0 and $100 for 2TB WD SA500 SATA then throw in external enclosure.
Again, 256GB SSDs in notebooks are more geared for businesses where there are either on-premises file servers and/or sanctioned/provisioned cloud storage subscriptions where most data is supposed to live long term. It's not great for personal use nor for someone who isn't loading a bunch of apps or files onto their computer.
Even with a unified memory architecture, I can guarantee you that there will be native app use cases on Apple Silicon Macs where 8GB, let alone 16GB of RAM will not be enough.
Again, I don't know that only having 256GB is justifiable by virtue of the fact that those services exist, but rather that (a) businesses typically want as little company data stored on the endpoint as possible, thereby making 256GB adequate for standard business laptop SSD sizes seeing as they only need to house non-intensive applications and the OS and (b) select home users either don't have a lot of data or have data that's primarily in cloud services (e.g. iCloud Photos, Google Drive, etc.). I would never recommend a home/personal user spec out a computer, let alone one where the internal storage is neither upgradable nor replaceable, with only a 256GB drive. But for a standard business use laptop, I would see no problem with doing so.
Apple's pricing on SSDs has always been ridiculous. That being said, if one's needs don't entail content creation, scientific computation and/or engineering, or gaming, and ESPECIALLY if one is using either external storage, cloud storage, or local server storage (as, again, is the most common scenario among standard business user use cases), 256GB is perfectly adequate. As you've said, anyone with prosumer needs would definitely want more than 256GB of internal storage anyway. But yes, in the "standard business user laptop" setting, the 2-port 13" MacBook Pro like the 2011-2017 MacBook Air that preceded it, has always been the sweet spot for that kind of user. The only difference now is that the M1 MacBook Air can also suffice (whereas the 2018-2020 Intel Airs were pitiful, even for those use cases).
What's humorous about this is that the 512GB and larger drives are 30-40% faster than the 256GB.
I agree, that would be a terrific solution. Both on laptops and the mini.
However, if you need more storage, do what my father did; buy an external SSD (they are now about the size of a credit card) and velcro-tape it to the back of the display! Then you always have it with you! (Needless to say, neither myself nor my father use Macs for "style" or "design".)
I tend to the view that both businesses and individuals are commonly capable of working out their own needs, without generic advice that has no real regard for what these tools are purposed for, or the collective or individual workflow.
Personally, 256 is plenty of storage for me as an individual, and in a business environment, I'd be much more concerned about server or NAS capacity than any individual system - and that's entirely absent cloud solutions.
And yet, the entire computer industry (including Dell, HP, Lenovo, and Apple) have pre-configured models for sale designed to serve the purpose I've outlined because, specific workflows or not, 8GB of RAM and 256GB of SSD is a common configuration for standard business users. Typically a business is going to avoid having a plethora of configurations and will ideally do something similar to Steve Jobs' Early 2000's Mac marketing strategy; you have a standard notebook and a standard desktop, and a workstation laptop and a workstation desktop. This simplifies deployment strategies and meets the needs of the vast majority of users.
In a business, you'd absolutely have ample server storage. Then again, you typically have a person or team of people or team of teams of people whose job it is to worry about server storage. Same for cloud storage. Those in charge of picking the end user systems for deployment would factor this into their decisions.
Storage upgrades is how Apple milks customers with a deeper pocket. So naturally the entry size can’t be enough for everybody, regardless of which year it is. Also there are plenty of innovations in the M1 right now, cheeper base storage is a nice extra for years when the pipeline is dry. So no, not 2021.
I’m sure he only gives his honest opinion as a repair guy. The problem is, being repairable is not the main task of a computer and he completely lacks the user’s perspective.
I've used 107GB on my home iMac and that has everything I do. 256 is quite enough for some folks. Thank you for not forcing us to buy huge amounts of HD space we may not need.
Except SSD is relatively cheap nowadays so there should be no need to compromise, especially on the 13" MacBook "pro". The $200 Apple wants for 512GB (i.e. extra 256GB) is usurious when you can buy 1GB of comparable NVMe retail for that. The logistics costs to Apple of having two models on the books is probably greater that the cost price to Apple of an extra 256GB of flash... but still a lot less than $200... Similar situation with RAM - 8GB is enough for many people but, with today's RAM prices, 16GB as a starting point on the MBP shouldn't be a luxury - certainly in a M1 MBP 13 marketed as a "pro" alternative to the Air.
It's patently obvious that they use pricey upgrades to bolster their profits while keeping the "headline price" attractive. Its also patently obvious that the retail prices are "strategic" and only loosely linked to the marginal cost of manufacture of individual models (...I mean, the new M! Air and MBP are based on completely different technology, but the retail price just happens to be identical to the old Intel one? Supplying a M1 with 16GB of LPDDR4 on top instead of 8GB just happens to cost the same as plugging an extra 8GB of bog-standard SODIMMs into an iMac?). Apple are in it to make money - they're not a charity - but that doesn't mean they get a pat on the head and a lollipop for being greedy.
On past performance (c.f. the dropping of 128GB models), the point at which Apple will move to 512GB will be the point at which the 256GB parts start costing more because manufacturers are discontinuing them...
I don’t really see it as compromising. Rather, it’s more that Apple is well aware of what their users need from their laptops, and work backwards from there to avoid overserving the market.
What are most people buying the MBA for? Browse the web, check email, type documents. Maybe integrate with iCloud and iMessage. For those tasks, the entry level MBA with its 8gb of ram and 256 gb of storage more than suffices.
The rest who need more ram and / or storage can always pay more for better specs, but it would be wasteful to have every MBA ship with 512 gb of storage default simply because most people are not going to need anywhere near that much storage.
As for why spec upgrades cost so much, I find it’s more or less in line with optional accessories that Apple also sells, like their phone cases or the XDR display stand. Maybe that’s the issue - that Apple views them as “optional” upgrades when they feel mandatory for some people.
Yep, agree in many respects:
- While Apple's costs / marginal costs are correlated to price, they are far from the only driver. And arguably may not even be the largest driver. Marketing, and as you call it "strategic" pricing is much more of Apple's pricing model, than just raw costs
- As you say, it is what it is. And I hear you that recognizing it and not being surprised by it, is different than "praising" Apple for it. I certainly wasn't, and I think most people don't. It's more in response to others who either are surprised by it, or even villify them
I don't entirely disagree, but I would reiterate that the current M1 version of the 13" MBP is the replacement for the 2-port / 8th gen Intel version, which really stretched the "MacBook Pro" moniker. When Apple came out with the 2-port 13", many people here on these forums (myself included) said it was a bit of a stretch of the MBP name. I personally don't really consider it a traditional "MacBook Pro", at least as it relates to the typical narrative that the MBP is targeted to, and supposed to be for, "pros" or "prosumers". It's almost an in-between, "MBP Lite", or a "Air Pro". I really consider the current 4-port 13" as the real "Pro" version of the 13" MBP, and when Apple releases their M1X/M2 version of that and the 16" MBP, those will really be the true "Pro" MBPs, and also presumably have 16gb / 512gb as the base configuration. It's just a weird time in the Apple Silicon transition right now, but I think a year from now after the whole MBP line-up is a known quantity, we won't feel quite the same way we do now. Who knows, maybe not, just my view.
should really be '2020 and laptops still 256gb,' since there are no 2021 Macs yet.
Yes the year is 2021, but we go off hardware release dates.
Though it drove me nuts the $999 iPhone was only 64gb up until last year, bumped to 128gb now, 256gb is par for the course in the laptop industry.
Yes the year is 2021, but we go off hardware release dates.
Though it drove me nuts the $999 iPhone was only 64gb up until last year, bumped to 128gb now, 256gb is par for the course in the laptop industry.
I wouldn't say the majority. There's a great deal of corporations that use Macs throughout their offices.
Education especially - Latest figures from my workplace (a Top 10 university on world rankings) is that around 35% of all university managed (i.e. not personally owned) devices are Apple. The entire university would account for in excess of 20,000 machines deployed solely for staff.
...but that's the Air. What are most people paying extra for the M1 MBP 13 or the M1 Mini for? Maybe because they want to do a bit more than "Browse the web, check email, type documents..."
...but in 2021, 16GB RAM/512GB isn't too much to ask for in a $1300 laptop. Look at all the people in this forum asking whether they need 8GB or 16GB or how much storage they should get... at current RAM/storage prices that just shouldn't be an issue unless you're buying cheap - and even Apple's "entry level" systems can't reasonably be called cheap.
...which again, was great in 2019 but in 2021 we should be talking about 32GB RAM/1TB minimum in a premium $2400+ laptop. It's not hard to find from Dell, Lenovo, HP - and I do mean their premium laptops (XPS etc.) which bear comparison not their cheap & cheerful options.
With the M1 machines, Apple have a honeymoon period in which the Air and 2-port MBP offer end-of-argument performance advantages over competing low-power Intel/iGPU systems. That won't last forever, and there's still a skepticism barrier to get over if they want to win customers from the PC market. While I'm looking forward to the forthcoming more-pro machines (M1X/M2/whatever) I suspect that we'll see diminishing returns on performance, in applications where ARM's power/heat/battery advantage is less significant, so I really hope Apple doesn't try to nickel-and-dime customers on the other specs. The CPU/GPU advantage should be coming at fairly low cost to Apple - I doubt Tim Cook would have green lighted the Apple Silicon transition if it was going to cost more than Intel in the medium term...
Well I have 200GB icloud storage as it seems to be the most cost effective option for my needs and iOS devices. I keep all my photos and videos in iCloud photos because of how amazing it is to have it all synced on every device.
I got the 8/256 M1 MBP with student pricing and I think it was absolutely amazing value for what this laptop is capable of, that I believe no other laptop currently matches with the overall experience you get. I use and download pretty much everything I want and need and I have no issues with storage space. Many apple arcade games, logic pro music production, software development, various apps for my CS university degree. I’d buy it for even more than I paid for it and I’d still be over the moon happy with the overall experience you get with the M1 MBP.
If I ever do need more physical storage then it’s as simple as getting one of those USB4 storage dongles that you attach to the side or just a regular external SSD.
Write: 2363 MB/s
Read: 2914 MB/s
are not slow by any means.
I got the 8/256 M1 MBP with student pricing and I think it was absolutely amazing value for what this laptop is capable of, that I believe no other laptop currently matches with the overall experience you get. I use and download pretty much everything I want and need and I have no issues with storage space. Many apple arcade games, logic pro music production, software development, various apps for my CS university degree. I’d buy it for even more than I paid for it and I’d still be over the moon happy with the overall experience you get with the M1 MBP.
If I ever do need more physical storage then it’s as simple as getting one of those USB4 storage dongles that you attach to the side or just a regular external SSD.
Pff give me a break. There is no valid reason to call these SSD’s slow if you’re comparing to laptops in the M1 price range. Most users will tell you they’re lightning fast and unless your whole day every day consists of transferring files back and forth, then the speed increases of larger storages are barely (or not at all) noticeable. Smaller (base model) SSDs always have slower speeds, and speeds of
Write: 2363 MB/s
Read: 2914 MB/s
are not slow by any means.