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deeddawg

macrumors G5
Jun 14, 2010
12,468
6,571
US

neinjohn

macrumors regular
Nov 9, 2020
107
70
I wonder how 3rd-party resellers work on other countries on the world but on my little corner on Europe without Apple direct presence with a physical shop all the MacBooks and iMacs specs bump are constantly on a promotion cycle between the biggest resellers. On the first month after the M1 Macs were released you could buy a Air or Pro with 16gb or 512gb for 70-90€ above the base price.

I remember an article on MacWorld around the time the Airpods Pro Max were released with a higher than expected price tag. It argued that Apple nowadays prices itself on a higher price point and allows some margin for resellers to work with promotions and deals and my experience with Macs, Airpods and iPhones goes in line with this scheme.
 

deeddawg

macrumors G5
Jun 14, 2010
12,468
6,571
US
smells just a bit of desperate sweaty-handed cash-grabbing.
Well, they *are* a giant global megacorporation.

Not sure why anyone would be surprised they they coax every penny out of consumers that they possibly can manage.

We have the choice of buying their products or buying their competitors products. At present, their products are the best-for-me choice to do what I want to do and how I want to do it. The day may come when that isn't the case. I care about functionality not brand name.
 

deeddawg

macrumors G5
Jun 14, 2010
12,468
6,571
US
But let's say you want that one game installed that takes up 80gb (most major titles take up that much, between 60 and 80 on average) then you've already saturated your free space. You always need a little bit of headroom on anything, let it be ram, storage or cpu power. Creative apps need headroom, office apps obviously far less but Apple is predominantly a brand used by Creatives as a brand sign.
Then you bought the wrong configuration laptop and should've bought a higher storage model.

It's about evaluating one's needs, evaluating the market in terms of what products fulfill those needs at what price, and then choosing the best fit to your budget, preferences, and requirements.

That a base model doesn't meet *your* needs isn't really relevant. If it meets too few people's needs then they won't buy them, and things will change. If it sells well enough to keep the product manager happy, then it's a successful product even if it doesn't meet your needs.
 
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eltoslightfoot

macrumors 68030
Feb 25, 2011
2,547
3,101
One workaround is to spend very little on a bottom-tier laptop (even the cheapest MacBook Air) for light work and then a desktop of whatever type you want with remoting software on it for everything else. Depending on what you are doing this can work very well; depends on your specific workflow needs, available connection speeds, etc.

Still stinks compared to having a laptops with sufficient storage, but that's not realistic for a lot of people.

I do, very much wish Apple still included upgradable storage in their laptops. It's a bit crazy that they don't, and smells just a bit of desperate sweaty-handed cash-grabbing.
This is actually what I do. I have a gaming PC for, well, gaming. It has a 256GB main SSD and a 2 TB data drive. For everything else I have an M1 Macbook Air (yes 256GB) with external storage when I need it. I don't even use the cloud and it is enough?
 

majormike

macrumors regular
Original poster
May 15, 2012
113
42
As does the lowest Lenovo Thinkpad model:

ThinkPad X13 (Intel) |13 Inch WFH or Business Laptop | Lenovo US

Heck, my work-issued Windows laptop is still using less than 100GB of the original 256GB drive.

My work is largely in cloud environments. I simply don't need much local storage professionally.

Methinks the OP doth protest too much.
You don't understand my point, I love what Apple has done with the M1, and I was a Mac User for the first time working in Post-Audio, going to Windows in 2016 because they've completely abandoned the professional market. But now they swerved back and I am grateful for it but I don't condone their upgrade practices without letting giving the users the self-upgradability.

I'm fine with the ram on the chip, which is shared chip accessed memory, I actually approve of it. What i don't approve of is having the encryption now "ON THE CHIP" and yet set up the base model with soldered on storage. Now there is no technical hindering based on the M2 chip, now it's purely trying to make money of people without relaying to actual technical obstacles.
 

deeddawg

macrumors G5
Jun 14, 2010
12,468
6,571
US
You don't understand my point, I love what Apple has done with the M1, and I was a Mac User for the first time working in Post-Audio, going to Windows in 2016 because they've completely abandoned the professional market. But now they swerved back and I am grateful for it but I don't condone their upgrade practices without letting giving the users the self-upgradability.

I'm fine with the ram on the chip, which is shared chip accessed memory, I actually approve of it. What i don't approve of is having the encryption now "ON THE CHIP" and yet set up the base model with soldered on storage. Now there is no technical hindering based on the M2 chip, now it's purely trying to make money of people without relaying to actual technical obstacles.
The above isn't at all what you conveyed in your first post in this thread.

My point was that tons of people do just fine with 256GB storage - that's the storage size my company deploys to our thousands of full time professional employees - and some manufacturers are shipping business targeted systems with even less.

As for the pricing, 256 to 512GB storage is a US$180 differential in the Education store, which you as a student would have access to over here. I'm unsure why that would translate to €250, and I'm seeing €230 at both the German and Spanish retail Apple stores, and likely lower if they offer a similar education discount in the EU. Doesn't really matter though, it is what it is, and for some folks that'd make their desired configurations too expensive.

I suspect you misunderstand Apple's marketing position - they might claim to care, but they're still going to charge a hefty premium. Apple has typically been happy to cede the low-price market to others, targeting the higher priced segment; capturing interest with base model configs and capturing further profits with expensive upgrade options. They are, after all, a profit-focused global megacorporation and you shouldn't let yourself get fooled into thinking they're anything different.

Don't take the above as some sort of "defense" of Apple - it's simply a statement of what they are, without the starry-eyed notion that they "care" about anything beyond how much money they can get people to give them.

Back in 2016, I happily switched to Windows 10 because Apple couldn't offer me things I needed for a reasonable price.

Back in 2020, I got really excited, seeing an in-house based chip at a great price point with plenty of battery and portability, to be only disappointed by the mere 256 Gigabytes of storage it comes with.

What upsets me equally is then obviously again the price point for which you go from 256 to 512 Gigabytes. I mean, 50 Euro would be realistic, 100 to 120 I'd be willing to give for the brand premium but 250 is just ludacris.

I don't understand how people just suck up these rip-off prices from a company which claims to care for their customer and user experience.

Even as a student, 256 are not going to be enough. Just papers and docs are about 200 Gigabytes every semester for me and with which memory am I going to install apps now?

These machines don't even come with an sd-card Slot for memory extension.

The only person who'd be able to survive with 256 Gigabytes of non-upgradable storage would be my grandma and she'd probably meet the storage's capacity at some point as well.

I'd love to get an M1 device but I'm just very sensible to being ripped of and will probably pick a new Ryzen 5000 laptop up, which probably won't look as nice as the M1, won't have an equally good display and probably half the battery life but at least I'll get upgradable storage, almost twice the processing power of the M1 and upgradable Ram.

I was really enticed to go back to Apple but their business practices just kept me from going back to an old beloved brand.
 
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majormike

macrumors regular
Original poster
May 15, 2012
113
42
I really would like to know what external SSD everybody uses here, recommending the 256 GB Model... ;)
 

telo123

macrumors 6502
Mar 11, 2021
318
402
I have two 2 TB T7 SSD from Samsung. One for backups and one for personal storage. I got both of them free from a contest. Almost always connected to my M1 Air through the LG ultrafine for Mac display.
 

za9ra22

macrumors 65816
Sep 25, 2003
1,441
1,931
Apple have always charged a premium for BTO options and upgrades, and they have been criticized endlessly for it - back to the days when their pricing has RAM at 2, 3 or 3v3n 5 times the price it could be had from Crucial.

But that's what happens when users are prepared to pay excess pricing for a premium product, and it really is no different than that one consumer might go to Walmart and buy a winter coat for $50, and another may buy one from Burberry for $1000. It's how markets work, and really there is nothing wrong with that, because you, the consumer, make the choice - nobody forces you to.
 

MBAir2010

macrumors 604
May 30, 2018
6,975
6,354
there
My Dell XPS came with 256 GB and i just upgrades to 500 GB today, or 2 day shipping
i still have second thoughts, 256 GB is enough, and i need to time machine a window notebook.
I might partition the MacBook air with 256 GB to run Mojave and Mt Lion because that is enough space.
 

Taco1933

macrumors 6502a
Aug 14, 2014
715
438
My wife got her doctorate with a 128gb MBP a year and a half ago. I know that wouldn't work for everyone, but it means 256 isn't exactly ridiculous. I would (and did) go higher, but that's why they offer other options.
 

majormike

macrumors regular
Original poster
May 15, 2012
113
42
256 GB is enough for private users but as soon as you are a student and want to try things out let's say, it isn't

You could translate this also for professionals but 512 is the bare minimum unless you only work with text files and docs and don't use the laptop for anything else besides browsing, which is also the barest minimum of anybody using a laptop by the usage itself...
 

Lihp8270

macrumors 65816
Dec 31, 2016
1,143
1,608
256 GB is enough for private users but as soon as you are a student and want to try things out let's say, it isn't

You could translate this also for professionals but 512 is the bare minimum unless you only work with text files and docs and don't use the laptop for anything else besides browsing, which is also the barest minimum of anybody using a laptop by the usage itself...
I think it’s a statement which is overly generalising. There are plenty of professional and student users who don’t use 256gb.

I run the 256gb version, same as my old MBP. I just don’t need the storage space, I pretty much only run VSCode these days. I only keep active projects on my laptop, the rest is put into Cloud storage if it’s personal or suitable storage if it’s sensitive.

Even as an engineering student (mechanical) I didn’t need 256gb.

The option of 256gb is good to have. If you need more than 256 you can buy more. If the 256 option isn’t available those who actually can use 256 lose the option to buy less.
 

Juicy Box

macrumors 604
Sep 23, 2014
7,580
8,920
You could translate this also for professionals but 512 is the bare minimum unless you only work with text files and docs and don't use the laptop for anything else besides browsing
This is not remotely accurate.

I kept almost every single document in a folder for the 4 years of college I attended (which actually took 5 years), and it currently says this:
Only 520MB.png

So, 520MB over 1273 documents for business school. Not only did I not need 512GB storage, I really only needed about a 500MB thumb drive to store my entire college workload.

I am not saying I am the norm, or that storage needs for college haven't changed since I graduated, but I am saying that your statement about 512GB storage is a necessity for college isn't accurate for everybody.

256 GB is enough for private users but as soon as you are a student and want to try things out let's say, it isn't
So you admit that there is a market for lower storage options.

Regardless of the storage options that you personally need for school, doesn't it just make sense that there is a lower storage option for people that do not need larger internal storage?
 

Juicy Box

macrumors 604
Sep 23, 2014
7,580
8,920
There are plenty of professional and student users who don’t use 256gb.
This is definitely true.

My wife is a psychotherapist and is still using a Mid 2012 MBA with only 64GB of storage and has not ran out of storage in eight years.
 

Chancha

macrumors 68020
Mar 19, 2014
2,316
2,143
I think in 2021 we have WiFi6 and type-C getting to be predominant as far as consumer tech goes, there is less of a need to initial storage other than space for basic system and apps. The same is even more true for professional / enterprise settings as outlined by others above.

With an adequately built WiFi network plus a multi-bay NAS, you will be surprised how well that covers an average person's needs. It can even do more than a traditional DAS (including your internal storage). And when you need that much more space and/or IO, Thunderbolt 3 NVMe SSDs or HDD RAID arrays are there. I am deployng both of these for my small business with everyone's machine at 256-512GB and nobody complains, despite we got TBs of multi-media data needed to throw around.

But I do agree the premium that Apple charges for SSD upgrades is a throat-grabbing-scam, as it has always been. On the Mac which is still an open system I am fine with that, but on the iOS devices much less so.
 

leman

macrumors Core
Oct 14, 2008
19,521
19,679
I'm fine with the ram on the chip, which is shared chip accessed memory, I actually approve of it. What i don't approve of is having the encryption now "ON THE CHIP" and yet set up the base model with soldered on storage. Now there is no technical hindering based on the M2 chip, now it's purely trying to make money of people without relaying to actual technical obstacles.

SSD in these new Macs uses proprietary connections and proprietary protocols and proprietary who knows what, it is connected directly to SoC. I can imagine that these SSDs also host some custom firmware (if they have firmware at all, they might be directly controller by the dedicated processor in the SoC). I suppose they could have made it socketed, but then where would you buy upgrades? From Apple? For a laptop that they don't want a user to open?

Frankly, I would argue that M1 models are the first Macs where there is at least a hint of a technical reason for soldered-on SSDs...
 
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