2023 Formula 1 Season thread

[headlessmike]

It was a bit odd, never seen that one before. And apparently they found a 'loophole' in the interpretation of the rules such that the FIA had to allow it, but they've now also adjusted the rules such that it can't be used it. Clever stuff by Red Bull, and saved him a little bit for the next race.

It's safer for the backmarkers too. Now they can be less worried about being torpedoed by Checo in Qatar.

As said the car was repaired before it went back out, it was very odd though. F1 likes its odd rules though.

It reminded my of watching NASCAR growing up. When they'd tape a car back together (or strip off the body panels) and send it back out 100 laps down since every position scored points and even gaining a few spots could be important at the end off the season (before The Chase).

 

[Akrapovic]

I'm a bit confused by these posts, if I'm honest.

There is no such thing as permission to re-enter the race, because there's no such thing as officially retiring from an F1 race. Teams do not submit retirements to race control - they simply park the car. The car is retired when it doesn't cross the finish line at the end of the race, or crosses the line too many laps behind the leader to be classified. You can also not cross the finish line and still be classified under certain circumstances.

Additionally, the stewards don't get to intervene and say "no you may not re-enter" because once a race has started, the stewards can only be involved if Race Control / Race Director refers an incident to them. So if the race director did not refer Perez / RBR to them (and why would they? It was legal) then they are not involved.

There is also a mechanism in place to remove unsafe cars from the circuit - it's the mechanical warning flag (sometimes called the meatball flag). However, there's no evidence Perez car was a danger to others. It wasn't shedding parts. It was just damaged to the point where it was too slow to get points, so why would they bother? The gar was not removed from the race by race control, so they are not going to stop it from rejoining.

Any suggestion they should've thrown a safety car for Perez rejoining is insane. I know F1 (and its fans) exist in their own little bubble, but I think some people here would be absolutely horrified at the stuff that goes in in WEC, IMSA and N24 with some pretty 'worn' cars and it turns out it's just fine.

 

[CWallace]

Is it truly a "loophole"? The SKY Sports presenters noted that Red Bull went to the race stewards and confirmed that if they sent Perez out and he served his penalty the incident would be considered closed. So if true, then Race Control sanctioned the action.

As @Akrapovic noted, the F1 rule book does allow a team to fix and return a car to the track after a retirement and I've seen it happen multiple times over the decades I have been watching F1. Back in the day, the teams used to have fully-ready "T-cars" that a driver could jump into if their primary was damaged during an early pile-up (Spa 1998, for example).

 

[Apple fanboy]

Is it truly a "loophole"? The SKY Sports presenters noted that Red Bull went to the race stewards and confirmed that if they sent Perez out and he served his penalty the incident would be considered closed. So if true, then Race Control sanctioned the action.

As @Akrapovic noted, the F1 rule book does allow a team to fix and return a car to the track after a retirement and I've seen it happen multiple times over the decades I have been watching F1. Back in the day, the teams used to have fully-ready "T-cars" that a driver could jump into if their primary was damaged during an early pile-up (Spa 1998, for example).

I remember that well. Imagine that now? It would be weird.

I had a power cut just after the race ended yesterday. I wasn’t that bothered to miss the RB celebrations.

 

[JustinePaula]

What was missed by Sky, the race director/s is that if a car is forced to retire, it is unsafe, there is some issue with the car, and yes it may be fixed, but the issue was the car then scrutineered as to confirm it is indeed a safe vehicle?

Just imagine had Perez left the track at high speed, spilled fluids on the track, then there was a fatal? What then? If a car is deemed by the team to be unsafe for whatever reason, and is forced to retire the car, then no amount of logic could allow any re-entry to the track, until the car passes inspection by the team responsible for certifying cars...

It was madness that the Race Director allowed re-entry, proof that he/she is not fit for the job, a blanket no, and life is life, Perez should cope a grid penalty at the next race...

Really what is Red Bull scared of? Maclarens or Mercs??? Is Horner that paranoid??

 

[cyb3rdud3]

What was missed by Sky, the race director/s is that if a car is forced to retire, it is unsafe, there is some issue with the car, and yes it may be fixed, but the issue was the car then scrutineered as to confirm it is indeed a safe vehicle?

Just imagine had Perez left the track at high speed, spilled fluids on the track, then there was a fatal? What then? If a car is deemed by the team to be unsafe for whatever reason, and is forced to retire the car, then no amount of logic could allow any re-entry to the track, until the car passes inspection by the team responsible for certifying cars...

Lots of imagines and whatifs, none of that actually happened

It was madness that the Race Director allowed re-entry, proof that he/she is not fit for the job, a blanket no, and life is life, Perez should cope a grid penalty at the next race...

Perhaps you should try and understand the rules of the sport...

Really what is Red Bull scared of? Maclarens or Mercs??? Is Horner that paranoid??

Why jump to that they are scared? They just try to do the best for their driver and help him get in the best position possible. But yes, Lewis Hamilton can take that 2nd position in the championship, that is what Perez is defending.

 

[JustinePaula]

What we don't want is a repeat of Jules Bianchi in Japan, that is why we use VSC and full safety cars when there are marshalls on track, if a car is deemed by the team to be unsafe, "retire the car" that means the car is unsafe...

There are many races left, and car 44 getting 2nd, maybe, but that should not override common sense, what if Perez blew an engine, a driver crashed, say max, broke his leg, lost the title? Or there was a fatal??

We use the VSC, Safety Car to reduce the number of What if's to as low as possible, slow the cars, look the simple solution was for race control, to declare a safety car for Perez, he does his lap, all fine, no issues, but to send his car out, in an unknown safety condition into a live race track was 2 steps from insanity...

Race Director made a bad call, should have said NO, or if you do, I call a safety car.. Either, but really Horner is paranoid...

 

[Akrapovic]

What was missed by Sky, the race director/s is that if a car is forced to retire, it is unsafe, there is some issue with the car, and yes it may be fixed, but the issue was the car then scrutineered as to confirm it is indeed a safe vehicle?

Just imagine had Perez left the track at high speed, spilled fluids on the track, then there was a fatal? What then? If a car is deemed by the team to be unsafe for whatever reason, and is forced to retire the car, then no amount of logic could allow any re-entry to the track, until the car passes inspection by the team responsible for certifying cars...

It was madness that the Race Director allowed re-entry, proof that he/she is not fit for the job, a blanket no, and life is life, Perez should cope a grid penalty at the next race...

Really what is Red Bull scared of? Maclarens or Mercs??? Is Horner that paranoid??

This is just nonsensical.

 

[Akrapovic]

What was missed by Sky, the race director/s is that if a car is forced to retire, it is unsafe, there is some issue with the car, and yes it may be fixed, but the issue was the car then scrutineered as to confirm it is indeed a safe vehicle?

It was not forced to retire. They parked it. The only time cars are checked to confirm they are safe is if the race director has given them a mechanical warning flag. Perez did not get that.

Just imagine had Perez left the track at high speed, spilled fluids on the track, then there was a fatal? What then? If a car is deemed by the team to be unsafe for whatever reason, and is forced to retire the car, then no amount of logic could allow any re-entry to the track, until the car passes inspection by the team responsible for certifying cars...

Spilled fluids from the aerodynamic damage? The car was not deemed unsafe.

It was madness that the Race Director allowed re-entry, proof that he/she is not fit for the job, a blanket no, and life is life, Perez should cope a grid penalty at the next race...

The race director did not "allow" anything.

Really what is Red Bull scared of? Maclarens or Mercs??? Is Horner that paranoid??

They're not scared of anything. They're doing the best they can for their driver.

What we don't want is a repeat of Jules Bianchi in Japan, that is why we use VSC and full safety cars when there are marshalls on track, if a car is deemed by the team to be unsafe, "retire the car" that means the car is unsafe...

The car was not deemed unsafe. It was deemed unable to be fast enough to get points, so all they are doing is putting miles on an engine and gearbox which are limited in number. Retiring the car saves that milage.

There are many races left, and car 44 getting 2nd, maybe, but that should not override common sense, what if Perez blew an engine, a driver crashed, say max, broke his leg, lost the title? Or there was a fatal??

wtf? What if any car blew an engine? Or Max crashed? or was a fatal? wtf?

We use the VSC, Safety Car to reduce the number of What if's to as low as possible, slow the cars, look the simple solution was for race control, to declare a safety car for Perez, he does his lap, all fine, no issues, but to send his car out, in an unknown safety condition into a live race track was 2 steps from insanity...

Race Director made a bad call, should have said NO, or if you do, I call a safety car.. Either, but really Horner is paranoid...

The Race Director didn't make a bad call. They barely made a call. All they did was confirmed what Red Bull wanted to do was legal.

It's kinda remarkable how little you know about F1 but make these bold claims about cars being deemed unsafe and dangerous and race directors not being fit for the job. It's kinda impressive.

 

[JustinePaula]

It is simple, each team determines through telemetry and on track communication with the driver, status of the car, if the driver or the on track, off track techs determine there is a fault with the car, the car is retired from the race, to prevent blown engines as an example...

There was a fault with the Perez car, it was deemed by the team to not be fit to race further, but he had a penalty looming, so the Red Bull team asked for permission, this maybe caught the race control off guard, so they granted, and he rejoined the race, the car was unfit to to race, hence the need to retire a 2nd time.. That is the important bit, Red Bull knew the car was unsafe, had some major race ending fault...

So sensibly race control should have called a VSC at least, let the car do the lap, retire, but to send out the car, without warning or any sort of safety in mind was thoughtless....

Horner was paranoid about this penalty affecting in the next race, so created an undue hazard.. It was very likely there was a chance the Red Bull blew an engine, it happens, a driveshaft snap, a failed ICE, and then??

It was a risk not worth doing, it creates a situation in which there maybe a fatal in a later race, because teams will try this.. Knowing that they can...

 

[Akrapovic]

It is simple, each team determines through telemetry and on track communication with the driver, status of the car, if the driver or the on track, off track techs determine there is a fault with the car, the car is retired from the race, to prevent blown engines as an example...

I think you didn't read my post. Perez was stopped because the car was uncompeititve. Not because it was dangerous. If the car was dangerous then he woukld've been given the mechanical warning flag. He was not given that flag.

Since you seem to think the car was dangerous, what evidence do you have to support this?

There was a fault with the Perez car, it was deemed by the team to not be fit to race further, but he had a penalty looming, so the Red Bull team asked for permission, this maybe caught the race control off guard, so they granted, and he rejoined the race, the car was unfit to to race, hence the need to retire a 2nd time.. That is the important bit, Red Bull knew the car was unsafe, had some major race ending fault...

This is categorically incorrect. You are literally making this up. They did not catch Race Control off guard, and race control did not "grant" access to rejoin the race. They asked Race Control to clarify the regulations are what they understood them to them to be (which is common during race weekends). Race Control confirmed it, and Red Bull brought the car back out. Race Control did not grant permission because a car which has entered an F1 race and has not been asked to stop by race control does not need permission to continue in the race.

You also claim Red Bull knew the car was unsafe. I'd like a citation for this please. Find me a quote from Red Bull which states this. You are making up insane accusations.

So sensibly race control should have called a VSC at least, let the car do the lap, retire, but to send out the car, without warning or any sort of safety in mind was thoughtless....

Horner was paranoid about this penalty affecting in the next race, so created an undue hazard.. It was very likely there was a chance the Red Bull blew an engine, it happens, a driveshaft snap, a failed ICE, and then??

It was a risk not worth doing, it creates a situation in which there maybe a fatal in a later race, because teams will try this.. Knowing that they can...

Race Control should've called a Virtual Safety Car for a car exiting the pit lane. Have you ever watched a motor race outside of Drive to Survive?

Horner was not paranoid. Red Bull were simply dealing with an in race penalty with a legal, safe, automobile, to make sure it did not carry over. There was no more risk of that car being on track that any other car which had undergone repairs during a race - which quite a few of them did. But apparently when Bottas needs a front wing, it's less likely to kill people or something.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, and you're making up ridiculous allegations. In my life time I've been lucky enough to have been involved with F1, Le Mans and IMSA teams. I've attended race directors meetings, I've attended drivers meetings (as media) and I've been in many a pit lane. You have absolutely no idea how motor racing works.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I think you didn't read my post. Perez was stopped because the car was uncompeititve. Not because it was dangerous. If the car was dangerous then he woukld've been given the mechanical warning flag. He was not given that flag.

Since you seem to think the car was dangerous, what evidence do you have to support this?

This is categorically incorrect. You are literally making this up. They did not catch Race Control off guard, and race control did not "grant" access to rejoin the race. They asked Race Control to clarify the regulations are what they understood them to them to be (which is common during race weekends). Race Control confirmed it, and Red Bull brought the car back out. Race Control did not grant permission because a car which has entered an F1 race and has not been asked to stop by race control does not need permission to continue in the race.

You also claim Red Bull knew the car was unsafe. I'd like a citation for this please. Find me a quote from Red Bull which states this. You are making up insane accusations.

Race Control should've called a Virtual Safety Car for a car exiting the pit lane. Have you ever watched a motor race outside of Drive to Survive?

Horner was not paranoid. Red Bull were simply dealing with an in race penalty with a legal, safe, automobile, to make sure it did not carry over. There was no more risk of that car being on track that any other car which had undergone repairs during a race - which quite a few of them did. But apparently when Bottas needs a front wing, it's less likely to kill people or something.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, and you're making up ridiculous allegations. In my life time I've been lucky enough to have been involved with F1, Le Mans and IMSA teams. I've attended race directors meetings, I've attended drivers meetings (as media) and I've been in many a pit lane. You have absolutely no idea how motor racing works.

Your assessment of the race and how the rules work match what I believe to be true as well. The car was safe to continue. Just wasn’t likely to score points. That’s not against the rules.

 

[Don Quixote]

I'm just glad the McLaren is starting to look racey. Maybe they'll pull off a win as well this season!

 

[Don Quixote]

LOL Max never lost his form. Did you seriously think that?

I'm sure @Apple fanboy didn't think that, but was merely being facetious...

 

[pachyderm]

I'm sure @Apple fanboy didn't think that, but was merely being facetious...

Or he was using sarcasm... ?

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I'm sure @Apple fanboy didn't think that, but was merely being facetious...

LOL Talk about dragging up the past

Or he was using sarcasm... ?

It could be, it could not be. Who knows, non-verbal communication in written form is a lot clearer with the use of emojis.

 

[Glideslope]

Lawrence Barretto reporting RBR ready to replace Sergio with Daniel after Qatar if his performance doesn’t dramatically improve.

Liam Lawson would move to AplhaTauri.

Unlikely IMO, but Barretto is an extremely solid source.

 

[JustinePaula]

Um, really? Sergio out and Dan Ric in his place? That is the best option the RB team can dream up? No one from F2/F3/F4, the catering team better??

 

[Apple fanboy]

I think Liam Lawson deserves a drive. He’s done remarkably well since coming in.

 

[sunapple]

“Apple to pay $2 billion a year for global F1 rights.”

Apple eye up F1 deal worth BILLIONS which would transform global TV rights

Read more...

www.gpfans.com

At least it would make this topic a lot more relevant to this website.

 

[Pezimak]

“Apple to pay $2 billion a year for global F1 rights.”

Apple eye up F1 deal worth BILLIONS which would transform global TV rights

Read more...

www.gpfans.com

At least it would make this topic a lot more relevant to this website.

Ppplllleeeeeaaaassssseeeeeee!!! 🙏🙏🙏🙏

Get it away from Sky.

 

[Apple fanboy]

“Apple to pay $2 billion a year for global F1 rights.”

Apple eye up F1 deal worth BILLIONS which would transform global TV rights

Read more...

www.gpfans.com

At least it would make this topic a lot more relevant to this website.

It would be nice if they do it well. I’d probably stick with the extended highlights I watch for free on Channel 4.

 

[sunapple]

Don’t really know what it would change on F1 side of things though I haven’t watched a race without Brundle and Crofty.

I’m not sure about Apple dumping so much money into entertainment, seeing how Disney and streaming in general are struggling. Sure Apple “has the money” but this has to make financial sense at some point. Isn’t F1 being overvalued like crazy here?

Assuming there’s any merit to this rumor.

 

[CWallace]

Lawrence Barretto reporting RBR ready to replace Sergio with Daniel after Qatar if his performance doesn’t dramatically improve.

Liam Lawson would move to AplhaTauri.

Unlikely IMO, but Barretto is an extremely solid source.

With Marko Helmut, anything is possible I guess.

Um, really? Sergio out and Dan Ric in his place? That is the best option the RB team can dream up? No one from F2/F3/F4, the catering team better??

Daniel is massively marketable. With Alpha Tauri said to no longer be for sale, they can promote him to the "mothership" to free up his spot at AT for Lawson. And Lawson will fair far better at AT than at RB.

I think Liam Lawson deserves a drive. He’s done remarkably well since coming in.

Agreed. And it's a good way to secure his driving services for even if he is under contract to Red Bull, we have seen contracts can be broken easy enough and I am sure other teams are looking at their checkbooks and legal teams.

“Apple to pay $2 billion a year for global F1 rights.”

I’m not sure about Apple dumping so much money into entertainment, seeing how Disney and streaming in general are struggling. Sure Apple “has the money” but this has to make financial sense at some point. Isn’t F1 being overvalued like crazy here?

Sports is where the money is now. My home college conference, the PAC-12, just became the PAC 2 because other conferences convinced 10 of the teams to leave to bolster their television marketability and secure significantly lucrative contracts from ESPN and FOX Sports. Ironically, Apple was said to be working on a global broadcast deal with the PAC-12 just before, but the schools could make more with ESPN/FOX so they bailed.

As the article notes, Apple has done extremely well with their MLS deal and Apple wants to control global broadcast rights. They cannot do that with sports like the NFL and MLB, which is why they passed on NFL Sunday Ticket and only have a limited presence in MLB. But they could control global rights for Formula One and $2 billion is a week's worth of iPhone revenue (if that). I expect they will land it if they want it. And I'd love them to want it.

 

[Glideslope]

Don’t really know what it would change on F1 side of things though I haven’t watched a race without Brundle and Crofty.

I’m not sure about Apple dumping so much money into entertainment, seeing how Disney and streaming in general are struggling. Sure Apple “has the money” but this has to make financial sense at some point. Isn’t F1 being overvalued like crazy here?

Assuming there’s any merit to this rumor.

Reference last paragraph of the above post. Not only is Apple doing extremely well with MLS, they are preparing to enter the European Football Market as well.

Can‘t compare what Apple is doing to Disney. Sports Streaming is growing exponentially.