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al2813

macrumors member
Original poster
Oct 19, 2014
50
27
Belgium
Yes I know there have been tens of thread and I probably read all of them and yet cannot make my mind :(
I have finally given up and ordered a MacStudio to replace my Imac 27 2015 that served me so well for so many years.
I waited the entire year to see if Apple comes with a replacement but due to fiscal considerations I had to take a decision before the end of the year and pulled the trigger last week. I am still using the iMac to type this message as I cannot get to a decision. The key points I struggle to decide on:

- 32 or 27 - I would have loved to take a 32 to have a bigger screen but understand that with only 4k, a 32 would be too big? I am sitting about 60 cm (2 feet) from the screen. I am seeing opinions going in both directions.
- 144hz or 60hz refresh - again different opinions

Budget is 700-800 euros max. Usage is mixed non professional. a lot of reading and as I am no longer that young I need good quality. Then also a lot of videos and occasional pictures editing. I do not game.
 
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CoMoMacUser

macrumors 65816
Jun 28, 2012
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I got a Samsung M8, which is 32". I sit about 2 feet away from it. No complaints after about a month of use in my home office. Hope that helps. Let me know if you have any specific questions.
 

al2813

macrumors member
Original poster
Oct 19, 2014
50
27
Belgium
I got a Samsung M8, which is 32". I sit about 2 feet away from it. No complaints after about a month of use in my home office. Hope that helps. Let me know if you have any specific questions.

Thanks. I was 5 minutes from ordering the M8 but am concerned of its quality and thinking of an IPS screen.
 

tstafford

macrumors 6502a
Sep 13, 2022
974
891
First off - congrats on the Studio.

The display choice is terribly hard. I have gone round and round for a year on this one after moving off my iMac 24. The issue is that for those of us (like you) that are spoiled by Retina it's really hard to find a replacement.

My two cents - if you aren't married to 32" and you don't want to fork over for the ASD, I'd find a used LG Ultrafine 5K. I think for the money it will end up being the very best choice for someone coming off of a Retina iMac. They are all over eBay in the US. Will give you very close to ASD results at way less $$$.
 

Basic75

macrumors 68000
May 17, 2011
1,996
2,342
Europe
I got a Samsung M8, which is 32". I sit about 2 feet away from it. No complaints after about a month of use in my home office. Hope that helps. Let me know if you have any specific questions.
At which resolution are you running it?
 

CoMoMacUser

macrumors 65816
Jun 28, 2012
1,029
350
At which resolution are you running it?
1920 x 1080 @ 60 Hz. Mac OS warns of a performance hit at resolutions lower than 5K, but I'm not feeling it, probably because the Studio has so much horsepower.

I'm also not seeing any funky or blurry fonts, icons, etc. and other stuff that some folks warn and complain about.
 

EugW

macrumors G5
Jun 18, 2017
14,084
11,847
- 32 or 27 - I would have loved to take a 32 to have a bigger screen but understand that with only 4k, a 32 would be too big? I am sitting about 60 cm (2 feet) from the screen. I am seeing opinions going in both directions.
- 144hz or 60hz refresh - again different opinions

Budget is 700-800 euros max. Usage is mixed non professional. a lot of reading and as I am no longer that young I need good quality. Then also a lot of videos and occasional pictures editing. I do not game.
I tried a 4K 32" monitor. I did not like the text when non-2X scaled. It was all blurry and it gave me a headache.

4K 27" is immensely better for scaled text, at 164 ppi.

I'm using a 4K+ 3840x2560 28.2" monitor which is also 164 ppi. The monitor is a Huawei MateView 28.2. That is in your price range at €599, and it fully supports USB-C and wake from sleep with the Mac Studio.

Huawei claims that the monitor is calibrated to less than delta error = 2 from the factory, and some reviews have confirmed that, but in my case the calibration was off. So, I bought a colour calibrator and calibrated it myself and now the colours look great. My software states that the monitor supports 100% sRGB, 97% DCI-P3, and 87% Adobe RGB. That is very similar to what the Apple Studio Display gets in reviews.

[EDIT] Apparently this monitor sometimes goes for much lower than €599 with sales/rebates. [/EDIT]

Once you see 120Hz... You'll know.
I tried 120 Hz and 165 Hz on a QHD monitor. I wasn't impressed. I mean moving windows around was smoother, but it's not as if I spend my day moving windows around, and I'm not gaming either. 60 Hz was fine. In fact, 50 Hz was fine too. 30 Hz was too slow though. And the QHD resolution was too low for my tastes. At QHD for a 27"+ screen, you just can't run a scaled resolution because the text quality is too poor.

I also have 120 Hz on my iPad Pro, and honestly, I just don't care about it.

1920 x 1080 @ 60 Hz. Mac OS warns of a performance hit at resolutions lower than 5K, but I'm not feeling it, probably because the Studio has so much horsepower.

I'm also not seeing any funky or blurry fonts, icons, etc. and other stuff that some folks warn and complain about.
1920x1080 is effectively not scaled. It's native for the Samsung M8, as it's an exact 2X scaling, so no performance hit. (Mind you, with my scaled 3840x2560 -> 2304x1536 resolution aka 1.67X scaling, I don't notice a performance hit either even on my M1 Mac mini, probably because I'm not doing GPU intensive stuff.)

My problem with 2X scaling to 1920x1080 on a 4K 32" monitor is that it makes for GINORMOUS default text sizes at a normal seating distance, considering that's 69/138 ppi. Apple's standard for about 20-something inches seating distance is 2560x1440 at 27" (109/218 ppi). (The lower the ppi, the bigger the text.)
 
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Lioness~

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2017
3,047
3,767
Sweden
I made it simple for me when I bought my Studio, I trusted Apple, and bought the Studio Display.
Too much hazzle for me with other displays, resolutions, scaling etc.
Lazy maybe, but time and comfort are money too 😉
Very pleased with the quality of ASD.
However, the day Apple release a 32" I'll buy it instantly, if I haven’t bought another 27" before that.
 

tstafford

macrumors 6502a
Sep 13, 2022
974
891
I made it simple for me when I bought my Studio, I trusted Apple, and bought the Studio Display.
Too much hazzle for me with other displays, resolutions, scaling etc.
Lazy maybe, but time and comfort are money too 😉
Very pleased with the quality of ASD.
However, the day Apple release a 32" I'll buy it instantly, if I haven’t bought another 27" before that.
I'm with you on the ASD.

Question - why would you prefer a 32" to two 27"? I'm currently running three ASD and love it. Honestly not sure what more I could want.
 
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EugW

macrumors G5
Jun 18, 2017
14,084
11,847
Meh. The ASD is basically the same monitor I bought 5 years ago as part of my iMac.

If I were spending that much coin on a monitor today, I'd want something more.
 

Lioness~

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2017
3,047
3,767
Sweden
I'm with you on the ASD.

Question - why would you prefer a 32" to two 27"? I'm currently running three ASD and love it. Honestly not sure what more I could want.

Not sure I said that I preferred a 32".
Even though I sad it would be an instant buy. I might have changed my mind before that. We never know before we have made the purchase, do we? 😉
As I already have another 27" - it makes more sense at the moment, to buy another 27". It will look better on the desk.
Thanks for questioning my thought there.
What I really like with ASD is that they don't take up a lot of place on the desk. Small yet enough real estate and very good quality and good looking. It takes up less space than the earlier iMac 27".
I wouldn't even consider buying a 4K, that's for sure! Not ever considering that after had an ASD.
 

Mac Hammer Fan

macrumors 65816
Jul 13, 2004
1,262
463
I bought an Dell U3223 QE (32 inch - 4K) in june. Text is really sharp, even scaled at 3360x1890. My other monitor is a HP 27 inch 1980x1080 and I don't use it anymore. The difference in quality is too big. The Dell is connected to my Mac Studio. The only issue is occasionally flickering (it happens not very often and it seems to be software related, when I close a browser window it stops.). I am still waiting for a firmware update of the monitor. Once you have used a 32 inch monitor, you don't want a 27 inch anymore.
 

EugW

macrumors G5
Jun 18, 2017
14,084
11,847
I bought an Dell U3223 QE (32 inch - 4K) in june. Text is really sharp, even scaled at 3360x1890. My other monitor is a HP 27 inch 1980x1080 and I don't use it anymore. The difference in quality is too big. The Dell is connected to my Mac Studio. The only issue is occasionally flickering (it happens not very often and it seems to be software related, when I close a browser window it stops.). I am still waiting for a firmware update of the monitor. Once you have used a 32 inch monitor, you don't want a 27 inch anymore.
I bought an Asus ProArt 32" 4K monitor. I was not happy with it. Scaled text quality just wasn't great at 138 ppi. I am much happier with a 27" 4K class monitor (or actually 28" 4K+ monitor in my case, with the same pixel density as 27" 4K). Scaled text quality is much, much better at 164 ppi, reasonably close to my 5K iMac. In contrast, the 32" 4K ProArt monitor wasn't even in the same league.

No flickering either, ever, with my current monitor nor with the two different ProArts I tried. If I had any such flickering, it would have been an immediate return. BTW, there were no USB-C sleep issues either with all three of these monitors. I don't understand how people can live with USB-C sleep issues if it's a new monitor. That too would be an immediate return for me.
 
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permanoob

macrumors newbie
Dec 27, 2022
9
15
I researched this a lot. It turns out, it’s not the monitor size that matters, nor the resolution, it’s the PPI (pixels per inch). Mac OS runs best at 110 ppi or 220 ppi. Any ppi too far from that and it will look markedly worse than any apple display or take a performance hit as your comp has to calculate scaling. You can find youtube videos where people got rid of big 4k 27 or 32 inch montiors with Mac OS because the resolution at that size doesnt work well. The ppi is in the 160 to 180 range. Bad for MacOS. When I saw this all of a sudden the world made sense. This is why the imac is 24 inch and 4.5k. About 218 ppi. It’s why the 27 inch ASD is 5k and the 32 inch Pro one is 6k. It’s not just for resolution, it’s because that resolution is a perfect match for monitor size to get to about 220 ppi, which is natural for MacOS. This is why nothing looks as good as apple displays with macs, it’s hardware built for the software. For example, some human might imagine that a 4.5k monitor at 32 inches will look like an imac screen only bigger. That human would be wrong because the ppi will be much less, it will look worse and the extra screen real estate will feel lower quality and might take more processor for scaling. That same human might imagine that higher resolution is just always better. Nope, if you have a monitor that is like 180ppi it might be better to actually reduce the resolution so that it ends up at 110 ppi for max perfomance and still decent resolution. There are whole articles about this.

Advice: For any monitor you are looking at buying, put the size and resolution into a PPI calculator website. Go for 110 (to save a bunch of money) or 220 for the best view that matches MacOS. It doesnt have to be exact, just close. Not close to those numbers = bad for MacOS.

This is all theory for me right now, all based on what I read in other people’s experiences and research and calculations. I never in my life thought I would be this nerdy about it. But I feel like I uncovered the answer to some hidden mystery. I actually find this a relief because there are so few big monitors at 220 ppi, and the price is not so far from apple displays. Right now I am thinking to just wait for ASDv2 which will prob be same size and ppi as v1, but with 120hz. That’s a display configuration that will look amazing without any performance slow and prob last me for 15 years.

Maybe. I could be wrong about all of this, but when I found out about the ppi thing it felt like I cracked the da vinci code for monitors.
 

al2813

macrumors member
Original poster
Oct 19, 2014
50
27
Belgium
Many thanks for all the responses! Unfortunately, it is not very different from other threads - very different opinions and even facts. After much thought I decided to take the safe option. I can get an LG 5K monitor for 650 EUR second hand. I wish I could take a 32, but I am not sure how much of a benefit I will get
 

designerdave72

macrumors regular
Aug 18, 2010
131
106
I made it simple for me when I bought my Studio, I trusted Apple, and bought the Studio Display.
Too much hazzle for me with other displays, resolutions, scaling etc.
Lazy maybe, but time and comfort are money too 😉
Very pleased with the quality of ASD.
However, the day Apple release a 32" I'll buy it instantly, if I haven’t bought another 27" before that.
Have you had any issues with app windows resizing/moving to the bottom left corner after sleep?
 

EugW

macrumors G5
Jun 18, 2017
14,084
11,847
I researched this a lot. It turns out, it’s not the monitor size that matters, nor the resolution, it’s the PPI (pixels per inch). Mac OS runs best at 110 ppi or 220 ppi. Any ppi too far from that and it will look markedly worse than any apple display or take a performance hit as your comp has to calculate scaling. You can find youtube videos where people got rid of big 4k 27 or 32 inch montiors with Mac OS because the resolution at that size doesnt work well. The ppi is in the 160 to 180 range. Bad for MacOS. When I saw this all of a sudden the world made sense. This is why the imac is 24 inch and 4.5k. About 218 ppi. It’s why the 27 inch ASD is 5k and the 32 inch Pro one is 6k. It’s not just for resolution, it’s because that resolution is a perfect match for monitor size to get to about 220 ppi, which is natural for MacOS. This is why nothing looks as good as apple displays with macs, it’s hardware built for the software. For example, some human might imagine that a 4.5k monitor at 32 inches will look like an imac screen only bigger. That human would be wrong because the ppi will be much less, it will look worse and the extra screen real estate will feel lower quality and might take more processor for scaling. That same human might imagine that higher resolution is just always better. Nope, if you have a monitor that is like 180ppi it might be better to actually reduce the resolution so that it ends up at 110 ppi for max perfomance and still decent resolution. There are whole articles about this.

Advice: For any monitor you are looking at buying, put the size and resolution into a PPI calculator website. Go for 110 (to save a bunch of money) or 220 for the best view that matches MacOS. It doesnt have to be exact, just close. Not close to those numbers = bad for MacOS.

This is all theory for me right now, all based on what I read in other people’s experiences and research and calculations. I never in my life thought I would be this nerdy about it. But I feel like I uncovered the answer to some hidden mystery. I actually find this a relief because there are so few big monitors at 220 ppi, and the price is not so far from apple displays. Right now I am thinking to just wait for ASDv2 which will prob be same size and ppi as v1, but with 120hz. That’s a display configuration that will look amazing without any performance slow and prob last me for 15 years.

Maybe. I could be wrong about all of this, but when I found out about the ppi thing it felt like I cracked the da vinci code for monitors.
You need to try them out in person.

My preferred text size is with monitors around 100 ppi, so a "Retina" version of that would be 200 ppi. Interestingly, Apple's earlier flagship desktop displays were 101 ppi, not 109 ppi. So, IMO, Apple got it right 15 years ago, but then skimped on screen size and increased the pixel density to 109 ppi, and then doubled/quadrupled that to 218 ppi.

This is my take, after trying things out myself.

I find 92 ppi too low, but 101 ppi acceptable. Both are pixelated, but 92 ppi is that much more obvious. That's running at native resolution only. For scaled resolutions, 92 and 101 ppi are completely unusable.
138 ppi is also unpleasant for scaled resolutions IMO.
However, 164 ppi is very good, reasonably close to my 218 ppi 5K iMac. Not quite as good in some respects, but overall very decent. I'm using a 164 ppi monitor as my primary monitor, even though I have my 5K iMac right beside it.

I don't have a 184 ppi monitor, but others do and claim they are damn near close Retina for their usage.

BTW, MacBook Pros are actually 254 ppi, and prior to that they were 227 ppi. However, that's because people tend to sit closer to laptops than desktops.

You can also use this pixel density distance calculator for Retina as a relative guide:


92 ppi - Retina at 38" distance (1440p 32")
101 ppi - Retina at 34" distance (Apple 30" Cinema HD Display)
109 ppi - Retina at 32" distance (Apple 27" Thunderbolt Display)
138 ppi - Retina at 25" distance (4K 32")
164 ppi - Retina at 21" distance (4K 27")
184 ppi - Retina at 19" distance (4K 24")
201 ppi - Retina at 17" distance (Theoretical Retina version of Apple 30" Cinema HD Display - My personal holy grail)
218 ppi - Retina at 16" distance (Apple 27" Studio Display)
227 ppi - Retina at 15" distance (13" MacBook Pro)
254 ppi - Retina at 13.5" distance (14" MacBook Pro)

I think most people (including myself) but not all people would be satisfied at 164 ppi, and probably the vast majority at 184 ppi, at least with ergonomic seating practices. Proper ergonomics for a desktop dictates a seating distance of at least 20", and I note that for myself, it's usually about 22-24 inches or so unless I'm leaning forward a bit for some reason and in that case it might be as close as 19". (These are rough estimates, based on some personal measurements over time.) Given that I don't have better than 20/20 vision, it makes sense from the above table that 164 ppi looks very good to me, and way, way better than 138 ppi. My experience is that usually it's "Retina" for me or else very close, unless I lean forward, which seems to agree with the above numbers. OTOH, 138 ppi only looked good to me when I was leaning back on the chair, but at normal seating distances for me, scaled text looked blurry and gave me a headache. Again, that makes sense given the above numbers.
 

Lioness~

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2017
3,047
3,767
Sweden
Have you had any issues with app windows resizing/moving to the bottom left corner after sleep?
No, not after sleep. But after upgrade/restart there was something weird happening re resizing.
One time it didn't resize itself correctly, and stayed in some smaller window to the left, and I had to restart it again. Upgrades may have fixed it. Was some time ago I saw it though. Not restarting more then at upgrades.
 

gilby101

macrumors 68030
Mar 17, 2010
2,597
1,395
Tasmania
218 ppi - Retina at 16" distance (Apple 27" Studio Display)
And all the "retina" 27" iMacs.
I can get an LG 5K monitor for 650 EUR second hand. I wish I could take a 32, but I am not sure how much of a benefit I will get
LG 5K - good and safe decision. Resolution matches what is best for Macs. Screen quality, colour gamut, etc. are good. Roughly equivalent to later 27" iMacs.

This thread, all the discussion is about resolution and ppi. That part is easy - near 218 ppi for best looking text with a Mac, anything else a compromise.

Colour (gamut, depth, colour accuracy, etc.) is equally important unless use is all with text. Important if you do any photography or video. That is where an ASD is (for some people) worth the extra money compared with LG 5K or 27" iMac.
 

tstafford

macrumors 6502a
Sep 13, 2022
974
891
OP: I really like the LG 5K option. I think on the whole and for the budget, you will be very very happy.
 

Fishrrman

macrumors Penryn
Feb 20, 2009
28,525
12,652
I currently use a plain-old 27" 1080p display. Works ok for me (with old eyes).

I'd like to see a 32" 5k display -- but NOBODY makes one. I would then use it in HiDPI mode as "looks like 1440p".

What I'll probably settle for is a 32" display with -native- 1440p resolution.
It will have a dot pitch finer than the 27" 1080p display I use now.
 
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