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$2999 for entry model: what do you think?
- Thread starter badlydrawnboy
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Cabling is going to be an issue if you really want good speed out of that thing in the cupboard, away from your working area. A three meter cable is $65 on amazon, but that won't get you out of a home office, and likely won't even get you to a closet unless the cable runs across your floor.
You can get a lot of computer desks now that are designed with cupboards for hiding away your tower computer while retaining some ventilation. Personally I wouldn't do it for a computer, but for a storage box it may not be as much of an issue as they generally run cooler to begin with, so it's a nice option for cutting noise down.
It's another good reason to self-build a storage box though, as too many of these pre-made enclosures use dinky little fans that can get really noisy. Wouldn't be so bad if more companies let you replace the fans if you want, but they really should be giving you the biggest possible fans to keep everything cool and quiet to begin with.
Before deciding to self build I was looking at Hornettek Enterprise 4X's, as a cheap stand-in till I was ready for something better. At first it seems like a good unit as USB3 is fast enough to handle four HDDs at a decent speed, and with a round design it could use a nice big fan to keep it cool and quiet. But then I saw one in person; despite it being fairly bulky, it still uses an external power brick (which I hate), and the fan it uses is only a fraction of the diameter of the case. Okay, so it's not surprising a cheap case made compromises, but you don't actually see much more thoughtful design even at more premium prices, as I've seen 10-bay RAID cases that only have two 80mm fans at the top, which is just crazy!
Funny, how time and $$$ can sober one up. While I LOVE the design of the nMP, I am starting to see that for a guy like me who will use it SOLELY for audio production (Logic) and lesser tasks, having to pay for two GPUs out of the gate may be a waste of money. That is, unless Logic is modified to take advantage of ALL the available computing power (e.g. All CPU cores plus all available GPU) in the nMP. But I am not holding my breath on that.
So for me, this will boil down to:
1) How much better/faster does Logic run on the nMP versus latest MBP, iMac, and Mini?
2) How is latency using various types of I/F devices now that legacy FW devices have to go thru intermediary FW to TB conversion?
3) How often do the dreaded "performance exceeded" error messages pop up?
4) How many more tracks / plugs can be run simultaneously?
Unless we have some real world feedback from actual Logic users, there remain too many questions to justify a top of the line purchase like this when a lesser purchase may provide approximately the same performance with money left for juicy plugs like Omnisphere.
I am hoping that the nMP blows away the other models in all of these areas. If so, I will get it. If not, hello TBD.
Oh, and the computer I am replacing is the 2007 MBP 15" running SL and Logic 8. I use a FW400 Duet for my audio interface. It works ok but I get performance related error messages and latency issues from time to time.
So for me, this will boil down to:
1) How much better/faster does Logic run on the nMP versus latest MBP, iMac, and Mini?
2) How is latency using various types of I/F devices now that legacy FW devices have to go thru intermediary FW to TB conversion?
3) How often do the dreaded "performance exceeded" error messages pop up?
4) How many more tracks / plugs can be run simultaneously?
Unless we have some real world feedback from actual Logic users, there remain too many questions to justify a top of the line purchase like this when a lesser purchase may provide approximately the same performance with money left for juicy plugs like Omnisphere.
I am hoping that the nMP blows away the other models in all of these areas. If so, I will get it. If not, hello TBD.
Oh, and the computer I am replacing is the 2007 MBP 15" running SL and Logic 8. I use a FW400 Duet for my audio interface. It works ok but I get performance related error messages and latency issues from time to time.
just talking with no real point..
it'd be tough to replace my laptop with a desktop.. likewise, it'd be tough to replace my desktop with a laptop (tried that once.. once)
but if it came down to me only being able to own one computer, it would have to be a laptop.
ymmv
You might look into used a current MP, or 2009 4,1>5,1 hack. I'm running Digital Performer with lots of VI and tons of tracks very successfully on a hex 3.33 Westmere. My upgraded 2009's Geekbench score is equivalent to the nMP base model.
I checked Geekbench Browser and the TOTL 2013 iMac beats out all the Mac Pros in 64 bit single-core mode. In 64 bit multi-core mode the TOTL the 2013 iMac is competitive with the 2010 six-core Mac Pro.
I found some other single-core results that show the 2013 4-core Mac Pro at 3268 and the 2010 six-core Mac Pro at 2522.
http://macs.about.com/b/2013/11/06/new-2013-mac-pro-performance-benchmarks.htm
I guess we'll know more when the real world tests are done.
Just curious because I have this exact same setup - what is your GB score? And what other specific upgrades have you done?
But what's after that!
I understand the price issue over TB, but having bought into it to drive my Aperture library, I have to say its worth it.
Below is an interesting list.....next years up date will get USB 3 to TB 1 levelsish. To get to TB2 levels by my reckoning will be 2020. I really think as TB moves into the PC laptop market (HP have started adoption), we will see a movement in the number and cost of TB.
2014 - USB 3.0 (10 Gbps) 1,250 MBps (proposed)
2008 - USB 3.0 (SuperSpeed) 625 MBps (current)
2000 - USB 2.0 (HiSpeed) 60 MBps
1996 - USB 1.0 (FullSpeed) 1 MBps
1996 - USB 1.0 (LowSpeed) 0.1 MBps
HP laptop with TB2 - https://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=435239&d=1379869633
I understand the price issue over TB, but having bought into it to drive my Aperture library, I have to say its worth it.
Below is an interesting list.....next years up date will get USB 3 to TB 1 levelsish. To get to TB2 levels by my reckoning will be 2020. I really think as TB moves into the PC laptop market (HP have started adoption), we will see a movement in the number and cost of TB.
2014 - USB 3.0 (10 Gbps) 1,250 MBps (proposed)
2008 - USB 3.0 (SuperSpeed) 625 MBps (current)
2000 - USB 2.0 (HiSpeed) 60 MBps
1996 - USB 1.0 (FullSpeed) 1 MBps
1996 - USB 1.0 (LowSpeed) 0.1 MBps
HP laptop with TB2 - https://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=435239&d=1379869633
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I absolutely hope you are right on this. Sony did try TB and back when Firewire but both kind of got lost. With HP on board, perhaps others will follow. Sadly, a key player would be the Chinese company - Lenevo. The latter having enough market share to really make a huge difference.
Btw, what's your take on the arbitration challenges with USB3 based on the USB2 long history of at times eating processing cycles? One of the things I liked about Firewire was having very little impact on the CPU.
USB3 v USB 2
As neither of my current Macs use USB 3, it's not something I have an intimate understanding of.
Certainly my purchase of my TB device for Aperture was based on a need to accelerate browsing on a pretty large library that I knew would swamp USB 2 and FireWire would have been capable, but a step backwards in my eyes!
I have experienced USB 2 issues previously on external drives eating clock cycles. I know through a friend, who has a Samsung laptop (Win 8) that's currently experiencing this on USB 3 and not on USB 2 on the same machine! But he reckons that it's a BIOS problem as it occurs on the sleep/wake cycle. Not something I have experienced with TB1 in OSX or Bootcamp, Win 7 though not 8.
I know we are getting off topic a little as this is nMP OP and not storage per-see. But I'll share my justification of the additional cost of TB.
I'm currently testing a Seagate GOflex pro with the interchangeable bulk standard Freegate drive (500gb) as my Aperture scratch drive and as I said earlier, it has revitalised Aperture. USB3 wasn't an option for me with my current machines.
I intend to replace the Freegate with SSD when I move to the nMP, again as a scratch drive this time for use in Bootcamp with Microstation/Autocad Civil3d/Navisworks large models. My OSX storage will be a TB2 solution and £1000 is allowed in my budget for a Raid solution.
From my early research to current USB 3 alternatives one thing was evident. If I tried a similar external scratch disc with USB 3 with a quick 840 pro SSD there would be issues currently and we know drive speeds are ramping up quickly. Samsung 840 Pro has a sequential read speed of 510 MBps and would likely be hindered by a USB 3.0 connection because real-world USB 3.0 speeds (400 MBps) are significantly lower than the theoretical 625 MBps limit set by the spec.
So not an issue on 2yr old TB1 but throttles on USB 3.0 until it's updated and we don't know when in 2014 that will be!
I know there maybe Raid USB alternatives that would sort this issue, but I was looking for a laptop bag solution to be used in conjunction with a new MBP in time as well.
As neither of my current Macs use USB 3, it's not something I have an intimate understanding of.
Certainly my purchase of my TB device for Aperture was based on a need to accelerate browsing on a pretty large library that I knew would swamp USB 2 and FireWire would have been capable, but a step backwards in my eyes!
I have experienced USB 2 issues previously on external drives eating clock cycles. I know through a friend, who has a Samsung laptop (Win 8) that's currently experiencing this on USB 3 and not on USB 2 on the same machine! But he reckons that it's a BIOS problem as it occurs on the sleep/wake cycle. Not something I have experienced with TB1 in OSX or Bootcamp, Win 7 though not 8.
I know we are getting off topic a little as this is nMP OP and not storage per-see. But I'll share my justification of the additional cost of TB.
I'm currently testing a Seagate GOflex pro with the interchangeable bulk standard Freegate drive (500gb) as my Aperture scratch drive and as I said earlier, it has revitalised Aperture. USB3 wasn't an option for me with my current machines.
I intend to replace the Freegate with SSD when I move to the nMP, again as a scratch drive this time for use in Bootcamp with Microstation/Autocad Civil3d/Navisworks large models. My OSX storage will be a TB2 solution and £1000 is allowed in my budget for a Raid solution.
From my early research to current USB 3 alternatives one thing was evident. If I tried a similar external scratch disc with USB 3 with a quick 840 pro SSD there would be issues currently and we know drive speeds are ramping up quickly. Samsung 840 Pro has a sequential read speed of 510 MBps and would likely be hindered by a USB 3.0 connection because real-world USB 3.0 speeds (400 MBps) are significantly lower than the theoretical 625 MBps limit set by the spec.
So not an issue on 2yr old TB1 but throttles on USB 3.0 until it's updated and we don't know when in 2014 that will be!
I know there maybe Raid USB alternatives that would sort this issue, but I was looking for a laptop bag solution to be used in conjunction with a new MBP in time as well.
I believe that OWC has some decent USB2/FW 2.5 enclosures that might work for you as a striped RAID (2 drives). The real catch is being able to drive (powerwise) from your laptop. There may be also USB 3 version as well. Drobo has put out a 4x2.5 drive enclosure as well that I believe (if I recall correctly) TB/USB 3 connectivity. - Again unsure if a laptop is sufficient to power the unit. Maybe worth a look.
Some of us go through that in less than a month, its far less hassle for me to keep 6k in mine because I don't shuffle much around, plus my MM ain't paying much more in interest.
back to the Mac Pro. Sorry, the problem I have with the base models are the 256G SSD, I can't do squat with that little internal storage and its an automatic requirement to upgrade. With my iMac I could suffer through 256 or even 512.
512 makes a great scratch pad
Put your enclosure and some quiet fans into a box and ship to the the manufacturer.
Tell them to keep their ****tty, noisy fans and replace them with the ones you've supplied to retain the warranty.
If they refuse, tell them to shove their **** up to where it came from, take the money and buy something else.
A little more seriously though, manufacturers should've gotten the memo that we expect highest quality, brush-less fans on $500 enclosures by now, and finely tuned for quiet operation, too. If the manufacturer of the enclosure you chose did not get that memo yet, then take your money somewhere else.
A little note on the side..
Hi Seb,
Have been to Dubai last week. Flight cost with Pegasus Air Roundtrip from Munich 280 Euros. Sales Tax in the American colony (also called Germany GmbH) 19% included a local "we hate customers" attitude. Compare this to the UAE:
No tax at all with a "you are the King" attitude, standing in the Dubai Mall on marble floor.
Not sure about the new MP, but with a Top Retina MacBookPro, the Strategy works out. Pack it in that Laptop Bag in your carry on and send the empty Box home. - money saved, free shopping trip, good food, cool gifts in the pocket, - this is how globalisation should work!
Hi Seb,
Have been to Dubai last week. Flight cost with Pegasus Air Roundtrip from Munich 280 Euros. Sales Tax in the American colony (also called Germany GmbH) 19% included a local "we hate customers" attitude. Compare this to the UAE:
No tax at all with a "you are the King" attitude, standing in the Dubai Mall on marble floor.
Not sure about the new MP, but with a Top Retina MacBookPro, the Strategy works out. Pack it in that Laptop Bag in your carry on and send the empty Box home. - money saved, free shopping trip, good food, cool gifts in the pocket, - this is how globalisation should work!
Saving potential estimate
This depends on a view important factors. You can make it even better in January. Once a year they have the national shopping week or something. They clear out stock, 50-70 % off. I have been there on a vacation trip, but I will buy it in January.
Here is the UAE Site for Price comparisson:
http://store.apple.com/ae/buy-mac/macbook-pro
savings for me on the Base model is roughly 500 Euros, the max model with max CPU RAM and Flash on max is about 700 Euros.
Important: If you go for the max model, it has to be ordered in advance for store picup. I estimate 100 Euros Discount in January because of their cracyness on Top of above prices.
Compare with your local Apple Shop prices, and you have exact numbers. This is based on the 19% German punishment tax.
This depends on a view important factors. You can make it even better in January. Once a year they have the national shopping week or something. They clear out stock, 50-70 % off. I have been there on a vacation trip, but I will buy it in January.
Here is the UAE Site for Price comparisson:
http://store.apple.com/ae/buy-mac/macbook-pro
savings for me on the Base model is roughly 500 Euros, the max model with max CPU RAM and Flash on max is about 700 Euros.
Important: If you go for the max model, it has to be ordered in advance for store picup. I estimate 100 Euros Discount in January because of their cracyness on Top of above prices.
Compare with your local Apple Shop prices, and you have exact numbers. This is based on the 19% German punishment tax.