2GB vs. 4GB dilemma

[gwsat]

So using fusion and parallels are like running 2 OS at the same time.. so the resources need to be allocated to each of them, right? (that's why 4GB is needed)

What is the main difference from boot camp (dual boot) then? I believe 2GB RAM would be just fine. But every time you want to switch between OS, you have to reboot? is it the main difference/drawback?

sorry if that sounds stupid

You are exactly right. If you run Windows in either Fusion or Parallels, it runs in tandem with OS X so that memory must be shared between the 2 operating systems. For example on my MBP I run Windows 7 with Fusion in Unity mode so that open Windows apps appear in the dock, just as OS X apps do. I have 2GB of my 6GB of RAM dedicated to the Fusion virtual machine that runs Windows. Thus, only 4GB of my total of 6GB of RAM remains for OS X. Once I get Fusion and Windows setup on my new 13 inch MBA ultimate, I will probably dedicate only 1.5GB of its 4GB of RAM to the VM. This will leave me with 2.5GB of RAM for OS X apps, which I am reasonably certain will be enough.

When you run Windows in Boot Camp, though, all of your RAM is available to Windows when you are in Boot Camp and all of it is available to OS X when you come back. The drawback to the Boot Camp approach is that whenever you want to use Windows apps, you have to boot into Windows and then reboot into OS X after that when you want to go back. Whether you want to use an emulation program like Fusion or Parallels with Windows or boot into Windows with Boot Camp when you need it, would, of course, turn on your needs.

 

[silverblack]

It won't explode. It'll just feel older quicker.

It's all in our heads, isn't it. When the next generation faster, better (and cheaper) MBA comes out, the current MBA will feel old no matter whether it has 2 GB or 4 GB. People will only see the weak point of the 1.4/1.6 GHz processors.

Pocket your upgrade money and spend it on your next computer. Computer technology depreciates so quickly that it is worth not investing to future-proof it!

By the way, I have VMWare fusion installed running Win XP, and it runs perfectly fine. I haven't tried Win 7, but I wouldn't want it anyway on my MBA due to its size.

 

[Macboy....122]

Still confused

Ok Guys, listen up.

Where i live i need to pay about 200 for it because of the difference between our and your taxes. I'm only 15 and i can't afford a Computer like this every year.

I need it for gymnasium, which i'm going to start at this summer. So, i need 7 hours of battery, which means i need the 13.3"

I'm going to stay with this as my secondary computer (But only laptop) fro 2-3 years. I have an fantastic iMac, which can do all the things i need. (newest version. The best model of the 21.5")

This is only for use, when i'm not on my room. (School, friends, vacation, etc.)

And in that time i need a long lasting battery, power enough to play some light games (Football Manager 2011, Apps from MAc store) and off course should the laptop be extremely compatible with the Lion osx. No doubt. That's some of my demands.

Do i have to put 200 dollars in to easily clear my demands out. What do you think. Instead of writing: "Get the 2 gb" or "get the 4gb" I would like you to explain why. Hope you understand it.

 

[Mj2sL]

I don't get the discussion about the RAM. Sure, it's not much but does it need more? I don't think so, unless you are installing Windows or using RAM-heavy apps. The Air is not a machine to judge based on the specs. It's the whole package, and it feels fast even with 2GB. So if you're just going to do day to day stuff, no memory-heavy things or Windows, 2GB will absolutely be fine.

 

[Macboy....122]

I don't get the discussion about the RAM. Sure, it's not much but does it need more? I don't think so, unless you are installing Windows or using RAM-heavy apps. The Air is not a machine to judge based on the specs. It's the whole package, and it feels fast even with 2GB. So if you're just going to do day to day stuff, no memory-heavy things or Windows, 2GB will absolutely be fine.

But for 2-3 years?

 

[tigres]

I don't get the discussion about the RAM. Sure, it's not much but does it need more? I don't think so, unless you are installing Windows or using RAM-heavy apps. The Air is not a machine to judge based on the specs. It's the whole package, and it feels fast even with 2GB. So if you're just going to do day to day stuff, no memory-heavy things or Windows, 2GB will absolutely be fine.

Have you owed a previous gen Air? Do you utilize VM machines?
If you are just cruising FB, mail, safari and basic stuff- sure 2GB is plenty. But enter the VM world, you will be sorry. Furthermore, for 100, why on earth would anyone spending this much on a MBA even consider 2GB?

Beyond me really.

 

[potdude]

But for 2-3 years?

Sure if you want to try to "future proof" your machine you should get 4 gigs of ram, but even if you spend the money for that upgrade you're still getting a machine which was gimped intentionally by Apple, which among other things doesn't include a backlit keyboard that will likely be added with a future revision.

When Apple releases the next revision, which will likely include a backlit keyboard and whatever other "new" features they intentionally left out, it's likely that many people will upgrade to the new model and they'll put their previous model up for sale, which will make this whole 2-3 years argument a very moot point.

 

[KPOM]

You are exactly right. If you run Windows in either Fusion or Parallels, it runs in tandem with OS X so that memory must be shared between the 2 operating systems. For example on my MBP I run Windows 7 with Fusion in Unity mode so that open Windows apps appear in the dock, just as OS X apps do. I have 2GB of my 6GB of RAM dedicated to the Fusion virtual machine that runs Windows. Thus, only 4GB of my total of 6GB of RAM remains for OS X. Once I get Fusion and Windows setup on my new 13 inch MBA ultimate, I will probably dedicate only 1.5GB of its 4GB of RAM to the VM. This will leave me with 2.5GB of RAM for OS X apps, which I am reasonably certain will be enough.

Which RAM does the video card come out of? Does it use only the OS X RAM, or does Windows in the VM need its own allocation? I'm thinking of giving Windows 7 1.75GB of RAM when I get the new MB Air.

 

[WardC]

If you need to have multiple applications open, like several Adobe apps, iPhoto, Aperture, and a couple web browsers at the same time, I do believe you are better off with 4GB of RAM. It's not just for virtualization.

 

[jnpy!$4g3cwk]

4gb

Well, previously there was no 4GB option, now there is (and it's available in many of the retail stores), so Apple must think that a lot of people will want more RAM.

Go with the 4GB option. Applications keep getting more bloated. 2-3 years from now, you will be glad you have 4GB and the next version of MS Office or whatever just won't run well in 2GB.

 

[Capt Underpants]

It's all in our heads, isn't it. When the next generation faster, better (and cheaper) MBA comes out, the current MBA will feel old no matter whether it has 2 GB or 4 GB. People will only see the weak point of the 1.4/1.6 GHz processors.

Pocket your upgrade money and spend it on your next computer. Computer technology depreciates so quickly that it is worth not investing to future-proof it!

By the way, I have VMWare fusion installed running Win XP, and it runs perfectly fine. I haven't tried Win 7, but I wouldn't want it anyway on my MBA due to its size.

RAM requirements for applications have gone up in the past, and will continue to go up in the future. It will be the main bottleneck after a few years' use.

You suggest saving the money for your next computer. I would argue that that money is better spent now. It will extend the lifespan of the MBA and prolong the time until your next computer purchase. Seems like a much wiser decision to me.

 

[astrorider]

2GB no issue here

Just playing around here with a 2GB 13" Air, but I just opened the latest documents I've been editing in the following apps, all at the same time:
- Acrobat Pro
- Photoshop CS5
- Illustrator CS5
- Word 2008
- Excel 2008
- Powerpoint 2008
- Xcode
- VMWare Fusion XP (512MB allocated) using Internet Explorer
- Safari w/6 visually graphic tabs
and my always running apps...
- Activity Monitor
- Mail
- Terminal

Page-ins are up to 1.5GB, but switching between all of these programs feels just as fast and fluid as when I'm only running a couple programs. I'm guessing the SSD makes this somewhat of a non-issue. Sure, it may be a tad slower (I can't tell) but there's no beachballing like I'd have seen on my old computers with a standard HDD.

If you're worried about the 2GB and you can try out an Air, just load up what you will, at most, be working on simultaneously and give it a whirl. For me, I don't think the 2GB limit will affect me much if at all. And I prefer to buy in store where, if there's a problem with your machine when you receive it, you can exchange for a new one without waiting for another BTO to ship out to you.

 

[silverblack]

Being my secondary ultraportable computer, I use my MBA mainly for web browsing, word processing, Powerpoint presentations, watching movies, syncing to my iPhone and iPad. None of these will benefit *significantly from the 4GB RAM. Not now, not in 3 years. To me, it is absolutely non-sense to future-proof it by going 4 GB of RAM.

I am not trying to tell others what is best for them. However, I do want to put in my 2 cents after seeing all these 'future-proofing' argument. Your MBA is NOT going to be handicapped in 3 years because it only has 2 GB of RAM. The VM from the fast FS of the new MBA allows it operates smoothly even when the 2 GB RAM fills up.

 

[WardC]

It looks like the MacBook Air will perform just fine with 2GB of RAM under any condition, but when heavily loading up the RAM it goes to massive page-outs, but the NAND Flash-based storage is ultra-fast and handles this speedily and very well compared to how terribly sluggish a HDD based computer would be under this load.

So a 2GB equipped MacBook Air is still a very capable computer.

I ordered mine with 4GB of RAM -- I could not justify not spending the extra $100 when there was no option to upgrade to 4GB in the future if you are stuck with a 2GB model. I figured when OS X 10.8 or 10.9 roll around in a couple or 3 years, my little MacBook Air will still be zipping along at lightspeed handling everything you can throw at it.

If you are running something like FinalCut Pro, all the Adobe Apps, Ableton Live, Reason, Virtualization in Parellels 3 web browsers open, X-Code, Aperture, iTunes, and everything else I could easily see you eating through 2GB of RAM in less time than it takes to wink, and running your page-outs into the multiple GB range.

Having the extra RAM installed will just make your MacBook Air that much faster when you are trying to handle the really heavy multitasking stuff, but I can see now that even with 2GB (if you have ample free space on your SSD) you should be able to handle anything just fine even with VM, although real RAM will still perform faster.

So the 2GB-equipped MBA is by no means a slug. It is still zippy. But 4GB will allow it to be zippier under certain "really heavy" situations if you run a ton of apps at the same time, and have the need to keep these apps concurrently open, so you can instantly switch apps without having to quit and load each one again. The 4GB machine will be able to switch apps faster and run those apps faster when you have a ton of apps open.

That's pretty much it.

 

[gwsat]

Just playing around here with a 2GB 13" Air, but I just opened the latest documents I've been editing in the following apps, all at the same time:
- Acrobat Pro
- Photoshop CS5
- Illustrator CS5
- Word 2008
- Excel 2008
- Powerpoint 2008
- Xcode
- VMWare Fusion XP (512MB allocated) using Internet Explorer
- Safari w/6 visually graphic tabs
and my always running apps...
- Activity Monitor
- Mail
- Terminal

Page-ins are up to 1.5GB, but switching between all of these programs feels just as fast and fluid as when I'm only running a couple programs. I'm guessing the SSD makes this somewhat of a non-issue. Sure, it may be a tad slower (I can't tell) but there's no beachballing like I'd have seen on my old computers with a standard HDD.

If you're worried about the 2GB and you can try out an Air, just load up what you will, at most, be working on simultaneously and give it a whirl. For me, I don't think the 2GB limit will affect me much if at all. And I prefer to buy in store where, if there's a problem with your machine when you receive it, you can exchange for a new one without waiting for another BTO to ship out to you.

That's interesting. Are you running Fusion in Unity mode so that you have access to your Windows apps from the OS X desktop? I am running Windows 7 and Quicken for Windows, in Fusion's Unity mode on my 13 inch 2.13Ghz 4GB MBA. I have 2GB of the MBA's RAM dedicated to the VM so there are still 2GB available for OS X apps.

In addition to Quicken I am running iCal, Address Book, Mail, System Preferences, and Chrome with a half dozen tabs running. Of course, Quicken is in the dock, just like the OS X apps. The MBA is configured identically to my MBP, which has 6GB of memory. Nevertheless, from an objective perspective the MBA seems faster than the MBP is. I have had less that 7,500 Page Outs compared to almost 2.5 million Page Ins. Thus, on the basis of the evidence so far, it appears that 4GB of RAM will handle my needs nicely.

 

[gloryunited]

You are exactly right. If you run Windows in either Fusion or Parallels, it runs in tandem with OS X so that memory must be shared between the 2 operating systems. For example on my MBP I run Windows 7 with Fusion in Unity mode so that open Windows apps appear in the dock, just as OS X apps do. I have 2GB of my 6GB of RAM dedicated to the Fusion virtual machine that runs Windows. Thus, only 4GB of my total of 6GB of RAM remains for OS X. Once I get Fusion and Windows setup on my new 13 inch MBA ultimate, I will probably dedicate only 1.5GB of its 4GB of RAM to the VM. This will leave me with 2.5GB of RAM for OS X apps, which I am reasonably certain will be enough.

When you run Windows in Boot Camp, though, all of your RAM is available to Windows when you are in Boot Camp and all of it is available to OS X when you come back. The drawback to the Boot Camp approach is that whenever you want to use Windows apps, you have to boot into Windows and then reboot into OS X after that when you want to go back. Whether you want to use an emulation program like Fusion or Parallels with Windows or boot into Windows with Boot Camp when you need it, would, of course, turn on your needs.

Thank you for explaining.

Is 2GB RAM simply NOT enough if I were to run VM with Windows 7? That is, to share 2GB of RAM between OS X and Windows 7.
(seeing the Windows XP example with 2GB MBA in a post above)

 

[robeddie]

You are exactly right. If you run Windows in either Fusion or Parallels, it runs in tandem with OS X so that memory must be shared between the 2 operating systems. For example on my MBP I run Windows 7 with Fusion in Unity mode so that open Windows apps appear in the dock, just as OS X apps do. I have 2GB of my 6GB of RAM dedicated to the Fusion virtual machine that runs Windows. Thus, only 4GB of my total of 6GB of RAM remains for OS X. Once I get Fusion and Windows setup on my new 13 inch MBA ultimate, I will probably dedicate only 1.5GB of its 4GB of RAM to the VM. This will leave me with 2.5GB of RAM for OS X apps, which I am reasonably certain will be enough.

When you run Windows in Boot Camp, though, all of your RAM is available to Windows when you are in Boot Camp and all of it is available to OS X when you come back. The drawback to the Boot Camp approach is that whenever you want to use Windows apps, you have to boot into Windows and then reboot into OS X after that when you want to go back. Whether you want to use an emulation program like Fusion or Parallels with Windows or boot into Windows with Boot Camp when you need it, would, of course, turn on your needs.

I have 2gigs, and that's enough, since I always use bootcamp. The simple reason, no other windows solution gives you the 100% performance of bootcamp. No matter how good virtualization gets, bootcamp will always be a little better.

Mainly I use Windows for games anyway, so when I use bootcamp I intend to stay in windows for a while and don't care about doing any back and forth.

 

[gwsat]

Thank you for explaining.

Is 2GB RAM simply NOT enough if I were to run VM with Windows 7? That is, to share 2GB of RAM between OS X and Windows 7.
(seeing the Windows XP example with 2GB MBA in a post above)

If you plan to run Fusion in Unity mode, then 2GB are not enough. When I first started with Fusion on my MBP it struggled with only 2GB. Windows was both slow and unstable. When I upped the MBP's RAM to 6GB I had no further problem. Windows and all the apps I ran were both fast and stable. As noted in an earlier post, my MBA handles Windows and its apps in Fusion's Unity mode as well as the MBA did. The combination of 4GB of RAM and flash storage seem to be just what the doctor ordered.

 

[wirelessmacuser]

If we step away from the MBA and the specifics,

If we simply think "laptops", 2GB is woefully little ram in the year 2010.

Furthermore, my personal experience from years of using Laptops, is that I, nor others can predict the future and what software or exact future tasks we will be using our computers for.

At the warp speed of progress and development today, I can't imagine owning any computer or even a netbook for that matter, with a measly 2GB of Ram.

You can argue the fine points all day long.. but it's 4GB for me in my new MBA.

I am not going to die, if I have to wait a few extra days.

I will be keeping mine at least 18 months. A period in which a lot can happen that I may want to participate in.

For a modest $100 as compared to the total price of the machine why limit yourself?

That's my take on it.

Cheers....

 

[KPOM]

Thank you for explaining.

Is 2GB RAM simply NOT enough if I were to run VM with Windows 7? That is, to share 2GB of RAM between OS X and Windows 7.
(seeing the Windows XP example with 2GB MBA in a post above)

Windows 7 with 1GB RAM isn't pretty. With 2GB of RAM it's fine. That's why I'm going with a 4GB MacBook Air (so I can give Win 7 a proper 2GB).

 

[astrorider]

Just playing around here with a 2GB 13" Air, but I just opened the latest documents I've been editing in the following apps, all at the same time:
- Acrobat Pro
- Photoshop CS5
- Illustrator CS5
- Word 2008
- Excel 2008
- Powerpoint 2008
- Xcode
- VMWare Fusion XP (512MB allocated) using Internet Explorer
- Safari w/6 visually graphic tabs
and my always running apps...
- Activity Monitor
- Mail
- Terminal

Page-ins are up to 1.5GB, but switching between all of these programs feels just as fast and fluid as when I'm only running a couple programs. I'm guessing the SSD makes this somewhat of a non-issue. Sure, it may be a tad slower (I can't tell) but there's no beachballing like I'd have seen on my old computers with a standard HDD.

If you're worried about the 2GB and you can try out an Air, just load up what you will, at most, be working on simultaneously and give it a whirl. For me, I don't think the 2GB limit will affect me much if at all. And I prefer to buy in store where, if there's a problem with your machine when you receive it, you can exchange for a new one without waiting for another BTO to ship out to you.

That's interesting. Are you running Fusion in Unity mode so that you have access to your Windows apps from the OS X desktop? I am running Windows 7 and Quicken for Windows, in Fusion's Unity mode on my 13 inch 2.13Ghz 4GB MBA. I have 2GB of the MBA's RAM dedicated to the VM so there are still 2GB available for OS X apps.

Yes, I'm using Unity mode with XP allocated 512MB RAM. I don't have anything that requires anything newer than XP...just use it for accessing some stuff for work that requires Internet Explorer for Windows, and it seems to run fine.

With the list of apps I ran above, and how well I could effectively switch between and use them with this 2GB Air, I'm surprised you found problems running with less RAM allocated unless it's a configuration difference. Was your MBP similarly configured with an SSD when you tried it with 2GB? I'm sure Windows 7 uses a lot more RAM than XP, so that could be it too?

 

[gwsat]

With the list of apps I ran above, and how well I could effectively switch between and use them with this 2GB Air, I'm surprised you found problems running with less RAM allocated unless it's a configuration difference. Was your MBP similarly configured with an SSD when you tried it with 2GB? I'm sure Windows 7 uses a lot more RAM than XP, so that could be it too?

I think the big difference between my disappointment with running Windows under Fusion in Unity mode on my MBP with only 2GB of RAM and your satisfaction with doing the same thing on a new MBA with only 2GB of RAM is attributable to the MBA's remarkably fast flash storage. Page Outs don't create the sorts of problems with flash storage that they cause with conventional mechanical hard drives.

 

[g808]

Windows 7 with 1GB RAM isn't pretty. With 2GB of RAM it's fine. That's why I'm going with a 4GB MacBook Air (so I can give Win 7 a proper 2GB).

Really? On my MBP I've only allocated 1GB to Win7 in VMWare and it runs beautifully. I thought I had given it 2GB, but when I recently checked it was indeed just 1GB, which surprised me.

 

[robeddie]

If we step away from the MBA and the specifics,

If we simply think "laptops", 2GB is woefully little ram in the year 2010.

Furthermore, my personal experience from years of using Laptops, is that I, nor others can predict the future and what software or exact future tasks we will be using our computers for.

At the warp speed of progress and development today, I can't imagine owning any computer or even a netbook for that matter, with a measly 2GB of Ram.

You can argue the fine points all day long.. but it's 4GB for me in my new MBA.

I am not going to die, if I have to wait a few extra days.

I will be keeping mine at least 18 months. A period in which a lot can happen that I may want to participate in.

For a modest $100 as compared to the total price of the machine why limit yourself?

That's my take on it.

Cheers....

But here's the problem:

Whatever software that comes along that requires such a massive amount of ram, that software will also require more than the 1.6ghz processor and the measly 320m gpu you have as well. So thinking that just by having more ram will 'protect' you from the future is incorrect. The ENTIRE system you have right now won't protect you from this future software you envision.

Buy the system that runs what you need now. Forget about some imaginary software in the future that won't run on you're 11inch macbook air... whether it's because the ram is too little, the processor is too weak, or the video card isn't enough.

Spend cash now for something that doesn't exist, I won't stop you, but I will tell you that in 1.5 years, when that software comes along that 'requires' 4gigs of ram, you'll be needing a hell of alot more than you're current macbook air to run it anyway ... even if it has 100 GIGS of ram!!

 

[alflavor]

I am very happy with mine with just 2GB, won't be running any virtualization etc, and given this is my 1st mac, I can see me upgrading in 2 years anyway!

It runs much faster than my 2 year old windows PC in the office with 4GB that's for sure.