It would have dropped to EDGE if no 3G was available. i.e. the AT&T 8525 phone has GPRS, EDGE, UMTS and HSDPA for data,.. so 3G and EDGE capable. Apple should have done the same, just make the thing thicker or replaceable batteries.,... they dropped the ball, imo.
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3G versus Edge... why Apple is waiting...
- Thread starter ashVID
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It would have dropped to EDGE if no 3G was available. i.e. the AT&T 8525 phone has GPRS, EDGE, UMTS and HSDPA for data,.. so 3G and EDGE capable. Apple should have done the same, just make the thing thicker or replaceable batteries.,... they dropped the ball, imo.
Normally yes,.. but in this case,.. 1) Apple is already making back 55%,.. 2) Apple already earned the huge fad phenomenon niche with the iPod,.. so it was already an almost scientific forgone conclusion what this phone would do in the market place. As crazy as the sales figures are now, they would have been higher with a 3G capable phone. They lost market with those who need data speed.
Apple could have made ATT widen their 3G coverage. Look at what their edge network was before the iPhone and what it is now. If Jobs says he wants 3G in Rev. B then ATT will massively expand their coverage.(They should have already done this thought)
Can't lose market they never had. 3G will come, if you can't use it without 3G, fine. I can't actually do anything on the iPhone where 3G gives me a huge boost to productivity. There are other limitations with the iPhone that are deal-breakers to 3G fans that won't be solved by simply adding 3G, and Apple needs to address them all before 3G is more than a speed boost to Safari's web page load speed.
Okay, you get that bumping up the T1s connected to the tower colocation centers to T3s in speed is a little different from BUILDING entirely new tower poles, network systems, and routing for 3G, right?!
(I'm assuming that all AT&T did with the EDGE upgrade was put a thicker pipe on the existing EDGE network technology, as the tech did not change, and the throughput was not as close to maximal data transfer before, but now it is a lot closer with faster throughput.)
Wasn't that percentage just the hardware cost and didn't include the cost of royalties/licenses and all of the other costs involved in getting a product to the street?
You clearly are not aware of Apple's branding and positioning. The tend to focus on style and artistry, it is not as easy as "make it bigger" Also, you would have tons of confused and angry people. 3G is not a household term and you would have to sell them with the caveat that "most the country doesnt have this available" Nobody wants to advertise a feature that they have to warn might not work...
ash =o)
Again... why would they? Sacrifice the battery and size so that a small percentage of users could use the feature? Apple played this right. V1 uses the established standard that is readily available. 3G will come when the network will support it. Go look at an AT&T 3G coverage map... SCARCE. So scarce that they actually pulled the national maps from many stores, at least here locally.
ash =o)
i don't want to hear people making excuses for apple using a sub-par wireless data standard... they wouldn't have gotten away with it if AT&T didn't have such a crappy network.
AT&T's 3g coverage: http://www.wireless.att.com/coverageviewer/popUp_3g.html
I don't call this scarce IMO. I wish they would have given 2 options.
What I can't figure out is no one has yet to tell me SPECIFICALLY what gear in the phone is in place that certifies that it can't be upgraded to AT&T's 3g with software. Again, what particular chip/hardware is in there that dictates it's not physically possible? Other phones can do this via software upgrade as far as I know.
I don't call this scarce IMO. I wish they would have given 2 options.
What I can't figure out is no one has yet to tell me SPECIFICALLY what gear in the phone is in place that certifies that it can't be upgraded to AT&T's 3g with software. Again, what particular chip/hardware is in there that dictates it's not physically possible? Other phones can do this via software upgrade as far as I know.
Really?
There's only coverage in 35 states, and in 14 of those states, the coverage is only in ONE city.
There's a reason why AT&T will only show you a text map of 3G coverage vs showing it on a US map.
Datasheet [PDF] for the PMB8876. The data sheet states that 3G is available with WCDMA co-processor. So we would need to find out what the Apple branded chips are first, and that would answer the question of whether or not 3G is possible with any sort of firmware upgrade.
Is the map accurate?
According to the LA map, nothing South of LAX is covered. Other areas not covered include: Santa Monica, Culver City, entire Inland Empire, anything South of Downtown, etc.
Either the map's outdated, or AT&T's 3G coverage IS scarce.
"All 3G compatible devices are also EDGE compatible providing the best combination of speed and coverage."
Not in my experience. Probably not if you're used to 3g. The speeds our phone gets is 596 kbps. Many are getting 150 kbps on their iPhones. I don't care how different the OS structure is, etc. etc..... that's a big difference!
Not in my experience. Probably not if you're used to 3g. The speeds our phone gets is 596 kbps. Many are getting 150 kbps on their iPhones. I don't care how different the OS structure is, etc. etc..... that's a big difference!
Have you measured the time it takes to load web pages and made a comparison? You will find that due to the way http works, as well as the inherently high latency of all wireless data networks, that the difference in web page loading times is not directly proportional to the difference in "speed" of the networks.
Ash - When it's not in a 3g area, it morphs to EDGE. Other phones morph out of 3g as well when needed.
From AT&T's 3g area listing.... "All 3G compatible devices are also EDGE compatible providing the best combination of speed and coverage."
Seems AT&T's 3g version will morph to EDGE when not in a 3g area. People keep glossing over this statement at the AT&T site.
From AT&T's 3g area listing.... "All 3G compatible devices are also EDGE compatible providing the best combination of speed and coverage."
Seems AT&T's 3g version will morph to EDGE when not in a 3g area. People keep glossing over this statement at the AT&T site.
Exactly megean,
Thats what these guys aren't taking into consideration. They think in terms of one or the other. Check out the AT&T 8525, it will drop from 3g to EDGE if the prior network is not available.
It is true that it would require a larger battery and additional costs, so would require two versions of the iPhone, so what, charge more, there would still be a market.
But i guess the 3G vrs EDGE debate is pointless as Apple made thier decision.
Thats what these guys aren't taking into consideration. They think in terms of one or the other. Check out the AT&T 8525, it will drop from 3g to EDGE if the prior network is not available.
It is true that it would require a larger battery and additional costs, so would require two versions of the iPhone, so what, charge more, there would still be a market.
But i guess the 3G vrs EDGE debate is pointless as Apple made thier decision.
You know a scandal that hasn't been covered? Back in January, when iPhone was announced, Cingular removed a bunch of its coverage maps for EDGE from their website. They made it a little difficult to see their 3G coverage maps too. I just chalked it up to ducking scrutiny, but it seemed poor form at the time.
So true...3G in the USA has been mature for one-two years now (EVDO) Its just that AT&T's 3G network is not mature
~ CB
3G ain't all that if you don't have a good browser
i had a Cingular 8525 with 3G... it's fast to get email.. and windows moblie internet explorer was fast.. but the browser sucked.. so didn't make a difference with fast speed... the only thing cool is i had SLINGBOX hooked up and that was about it...
and oh, i can use skype in 3G areas so i can call international for very cheap....
so got rid of the 8525 and got the iphone.. so happy with it..
i had a Cingular 8525 with 3G... it's fast to get email.. and windows moblie internet explorer was fast.. but the browser sucked.. so didn't make a difference with fast speed... the only thing cool is i had SLINGBOX hooked up and that was about it...
and oh, i can use skype in 3G areas so i can call international for very cheap....
so got rid of the 8525 and got the iphone.. so happy with it..
It is never about one or the other, but rather that Apple has never been about trying to reach the entire market with their lineup, especially a v1. It took Apple a few years for the iPod line to flesh out. One of the most vocal complaints about their Mac line is that it has 'gaps'.
One of the reasons why SJ said the 3G chip was too bulky was because 3G chipsets /include/ EDGE capability. The size and backwards-compatibility is also the reason behind the increased power consumption for the most part.
Considering the lack of functionality that 3G could benefit (especially tethering) beyond browsing. The iPhone would need to gain some of this functionality along with 3G before I would pay extra money for it.