MP All Models 40 core ASI with PCI-E slot is around the corner!!

[singhs.apps]

I dunno, Gurman talks about 24 & 48 core CPUs, with 76 & 152 core GPUs (should be 80 & 160...?); this would make one think the configs were two or four M2 Max SoCs...

Corrected.

I had meant to say 'test configs. Both only mention the últra'type SOC, not the extreme variety.

So Apple feels 24 cores ( for now ) is fast enough, allowing space for massive GPU chips? ( then again zero rumors on that front)

 

[Boil]

1. sorry it is my typo, prototype machine is contain 6 pcie slot.
2. it recognize (shown as RX6900XT) but not working.

1 - Six PCIe slots, any idea as to which generation and how many lanes...?

2 - I forgot that a retail AMD PC GPU was previously tried...!

 

[theorist9]

prototype machine is contain 6 pcie slot.

If they're planning on making the AS Mac Pro half the size of the Intel Mac Pro, offering 6 PCIe slots is pretty good, since that's just two less than the eight on the Intel Mac Pro (which has four double-wide, three single-wide, and one half-length slot preconfigured with the Apple I/O card).

They may be getting some space savings by converting the four double-wide slots to single-width, since the double-width spacing was needed for the MPX GPU modules, which the AS Mac Pro won't have (unless they decide to offer plug-in AS GPU modules, and need double-width for those).

 

[Kimmo]

Thanks, Amethyst.

Sounds promising. It'll be interesting to hear more when they move the M2 Ultra prototype to the new (half-size?) case.

 

[exoticSpice]

That's more like it. 6 pci slots sounds much better than one or none at all.

Well, goodbye Mac Studio. I knew Apple had to add pci lanes to Mac Pro otherwise what's the point.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

That's more like it. 6 pci slots sounds much better than one or none at all.

Well, goodbye Mac Studio. I knew Apple had to add pci lanes to Mac Pro otherwise what's the point.

If those slots cannot take 3rd party graphics card updates, that machine is DOA.

 

[exoticSpice]

If those slots cannot take 3rd party graphics card updates, that machine is DOA.

You do know there are pros that don't need PCIe lanes for third party GPUs as well??

Like audio and network and server pros but want pci expansion instead of thunderbolt.

Of course for those that need 3rd party GPUs it would be dead on arrival.

So yes in your use case the 8,1 will be DOA but not everyone is the same as you.

Myself I will be moving to PC as I need third party GPUs but will continue to use MacBooks as I need to macOS.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

You do know there are pros that don't need PCIe lanes for third party GPUs as well??

Like audio and network and server pros but want pci expansion instead of thunderbolt.

Of course for those that need 3rd party GPUs it would be dead on arrival.

Of course. As well as you know there are pros that need GPUs that are FAR more powerful than what apple can ever hope to provide. And some of those folks you mention also need GPUs, some of course never will. But I posit, the group you talk about is smaller. My proof. Apple doesnt market to them. Their apology tour (and even Mac Studio marketing flap) all talked about 8k work flows.

Currently Im the only person in the world, as far as I can tell, that actually got an 8k tv display working on a Mac, and that is with a 3rd party graphics card only. Funny, apple talks so much about 8k work flows, and somehow have the gall not to be embarrassed that none of their machines with apple equipment alone can actually display on an 8k tv. It's actually not funny. It's beyond pathetic.

But I digress. Point is, once you strip out the pros/enthusiasts that do need/want 3rd party GPUs, not much of that community will remain. And probably no part of the community will give you a free cameo in a the next Independence Day (at least not without apple paying for it). Once that community moves on, a lot of the halo force influence they have will flow elsewhere.

Over enough time, that will not be good for apple. Then again, over enough time, we're all dead, so perhaps it doesnt matter. But in my opinion, it's stupid and shortsighted on apple's part. In many ways, cook is exactly like John Skulley, just with a fatter checkbook and even less charisma.

 

[exoticSpice]

Currently Im the only person in the world, as far as I can tell, that actually got an 8k tv display working on a Mac

Haha pretty sure Apple does with Thunderbolt 5 (USB C FTW) in their labs.

Funny, they talk so much about 8k work flows, and somehow have the gall not to be embarrassed that none of their machines with apple equipment alone can actually display on an 8k tv. It's actually not funny. It's beyond pathetic.

Yes either put HDMI 2.1 or TB5 . Hurry up Apple this is stupid.


Apple Macs will be fine even without a Mac Pro heck just now Mac sales increased 40% YoY. But unless a product person comes back to Apple the "fun" will not exist at Apple and it will be a dry corporation

 

[startergo]

GPU is now show it's name in system preference. but not working properly.

Most probably drivers are not there yet. Probably some kind of future Ventura release.

 

[Joe The Dragon]

That's more like it. 6 pci slots sounds much better than one or none at all.

But at what gen and number of lanes?

6 slots at X4 each (in X16 I hope) is not really that much.

6 at X16 each seems like a lot for the apple chips

even with out video cards you may still need X16 slots for the 4 slot m.2 cards.

other cards can get away with say max of x4

maybe it's 6 slots feed by an switcher with maybe an max of 32-64 lanes in?

 

[theorist9]

If those slots cannot take 3rd party graphics card updates, that machine is DOA.

I think that, to satisfy customers that want expandable/updateable GPU's, the AS Mac Pro doesn't need to take 3rd party GPU updates. [Which most think it won't.] Instead, Apple just needs to offer expandable and updateable AS GPU modules. After all, the Intel Mac Pro couldn't take 3rd party GPU updates generally—it could only take those from one brand (AMD). So Apple would just need to replicate that situation by offering that feature itself. I've no idea if they will.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

I think that, to satisfy customers that want expandable/updateable GPU's, the AS Mac Pro doesn't need to take 3rd party GPU updates. [Which most think it won't.] Instead, Apple just needs to offer expandable and updateable AS GPU modules. After all, the Intel Mac Pro couldn't take 3rd party GPU updates generally—it could only take those from one brand (AMD). So Apple would just need to replicate that situation by offering that feature itself. I've no idea if they will.

Maybe, but if they offer their own 1st party GPUs, they better OBLITERATE the top of the line current GPUs, otherwise, it's noise. Also, that shows they could TOTALLY allow 3rd party GPUs and are too lazy to write a driver, which is a joke, IMO. And shows outward explicit hostility to the community.

And I disagree that 'most think it wont need 3rd party GPUs'. To the contrary, most think it does or it will be DOA, IMO.

Let's find out in this poll.

 

[Joe The Dragon]

Maybe, but if they offer their own 1st party GPUs, they better OBLITERATE the top of the line current GPUs, otherwise, it's noise. Also, that shows they could TOTALLY allow 3rd party GPUs and are too lazy to write a driver, which is a joke, IMO. And shows outward explicit hostility to the community.

And I disagree that 'most think it wont need 3rd party GPUs'. To the contrary, most think it does or it will be DOA, IMO.

Let's find out in this poll.

they can have an faster then PCI-E slot for an GPU card or maybe an CPU slot.

 

[theorist9]

Maybe, but if they offer their own 1st party GPUs, they better OBLITERATE the top of the line current GPUs, otherwise, it's noise.

That seems a bit silly. The Intel Mac Pro couldn't do that, and it wasn't "noise". Do you really think the AS MacPro needs to "obliterate" the top NVIDA workstation configurations that will be available when it's released, which (for video use) will probably have dual RTX 6000 Ada Generation cards?

Given how much lower the Mac Pro's power consumption will be than such an NVIDIA machine—and thus how much quieter (important for studio use) and less heat-producing it would be—I think many users will accept something that is reasonably powerful even if it's not an NVIDIA-killer (which I don't think anyone expects it to be).

If we use FP32 TFLOPS as a general measure of GPGPU compute peformance, dual RTX 6000 Ada Gen cards will probably be >180 TFLOPS. Extrapolating from the M2, you'd need 6x M2 Ultra GPU's just to equal that. I.e., you'd need an M2 "Extreme" chip (which would be 2x Ultra), plus 2 x dual-Ultra GPU modules.

If Apple is instead able to release the Mac Pro with 3 nm M3, then, yes, having 6x M3 Ultra GPU cores should beat dual RTX 6000 Ada's (at least for GPGPU; NVIDIA will probably still have a significant edge for ML). But saying it has to offer 6x M3 Ultra GPU cores or else it's noise, again, seems silly.

I do think offering add-on GPU-only modules would be something many would like. But even if it only allows one a total of 4x Ultra, I don't think that makes the machine "noise".

And I disagree that 'most think it wont need 3rd party GPUs'. To the contrary, most think it does or it will be DOA, IMO.

Sorry, it seems I wasn't clear. When I wrote the following....

I think that, to satisfy customers that want expandable/updateable GPU's, the AS Mac Pro doesn't need to take 3rd party GPU updates. [Which most think it won't.]

...what I meant was that most think the AS Mac Pro won't take 3rd party GPU's; I wasn't commenting on whether or not most think it needs them.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

That seems a bit silly. The Intel Mac Pro couldn't do that, and it wasn't "noise". Do you really think the AS MacPro needs to "obliterate" the top NVIDA workstation configurations that will be available when it's released, which (for video use) will probably have dual RTX 6000 Ada Generation cards?

Given how much lower the Mac Pro's power consumption will be than such an NVIDIA machine—and thus how much quieter (important for studio use) and less heat-producing it would be—I think many users will accept something that is reasonably powerful even if it's not an NVIDIA-killer (which I don't think anyone expects it to be).

If we use FP32 TFLOPS as a general measure of GPGPU compute peformance, dual RTX 6000 Ada Gen cards will probably be >180 TFLOPS. Extrapolating from the M2, you'd need 6x M2 Ultra GPU's just to equal that. I.e., you'd need an M2 "Extreme" chip (which would be 2x Ultra), plus 2 x dual-Ultra GPU modules.

If Apple is instead able to release the Mac Pro with 3 nm M3, then, yes, having 6x M3 Ultra GPU cores should beat dual RTX 6000 Ada's (at least for GPGPU; NVIDIA will probably still have a significant edge for ML). But saying it has to do offer 6x M3 Ultra GPU cores or else it's noise, again, seems silly.

I do think offering add-on GPU-only modules would be something many would like. But even if it only allows one a total of 4x Ultra, I don't think that makes the machine "noise".


Sorry, it seems I wasn't clear. When I wrote the following....

...what I meant was that most think the AS Mac Pro won't take 3rd party GPU's; I wasn't commenting on whether or not most think it needs them.

Not silly. If you LOCK IN people to only 1st party products with no options for third party products, which have consistently proven to perform way better than apple's graphics card products, then it better be an order of magnitude better to convince people that they can live with a lack of options. That you do not think so, is fair enough, but more than a few others likely think different.

I see your point, and would refine it a bit further. Most here in these forums think the AS Mac Pro wont take 3rd party GPUs. I'd argue most Mac users are oblivious and/or do not care.

 

[prefuse07]

That seems a bit silly. The Intel Mac Pro couldn't do that, and it wasn't "noise". Do you really think the AS MacPro needs to "obliterate" the top NVIDA workstation configurations that will be available when it's released, which (for video use) will probably have dual RTX 6000 Ada Generation cards?

The Intel Mac Pro didn't need to obliterate out of the box, BECAUSE it supported 3rd party GPUS, so if you WANTED it to obliterate, you simply plug-in a 3rd party GPU (or 2 or 3) and BAM, done. It's simple as that. or you can pay the inflated apple price and get dual 6800 radeon pros out of the box.... which would obliterate.

The point being that giving users the OPTION is what makes a Pro device... a Pro device.

Otherwise, it really is just a beefed up Mac Studio (which is a joke) and taking us back along the path of the 6,1 (which was also a total joke).

 

[theorist9]

Not silly. If you LOCK IN people to only 1st party products with no options for third party products, which have consistently proven to perform way better than apple's graphics card products, then it better be an order of magnitude better to convince people that they can live with a lack of options. That you do not think so, is fair enough, but more than a few others likely think different.

I see your point, and would refine it a bit further. Most here in these forums think the AS Mac Pro wont take 3rd party GPUs. I'd argue most Mac users are oblivious and/or do not care.

I personally think Apple should offer add-on upgradeable GPU modules. After all, they made a big deal about respecting pro users' needs for modularity, so to take that away would be a big step backwards. And I do think it's unfortunate Apple split with NVIDIA, since CUDA is very useful for scientific computing. But that's just the way it is.

When I said "silly" I was referring to your statement that the Mac Pro is worthless ("noise") if it doesn't "obliterate" the top 3rd-partly GPU options, since that means obliterating dual-A6000 Adas (est. 180 TFLOPS). I think if it equalled dual-A6000 Adas, people would be plenty happy. Can you tell me anyone besides yourself who has said that the Mac Pro would be worthless/DOA/noise (whatever adjective you prefer) if it doesn't obliterate something at the level of dual-A6000 Adas? I.e., that thinks the MacPro is DOA unless it has a top-GPU option of, say, about 300 TFLOPS (or whatever number is needed to obliterate 180 TFLOPS)?

 

[exoticSpice]

And shows outward explicit hostility to the community.

I would not call it hostility but rather Apple wants to control the whole stack. I don't like the choice Apple made therefore I am leaving the Mac Pro and going PC for my workstation.

You must think Apple cares about the Mac Pro 'community' well they don't if they did the 7,1 would have had a Threadripper and CUDA cards!

Apple is right to follow it's own path they will gain new customers that benefit from the 8,1 and will lose some due to the choice they made. Simple.

 

[exoticSpice]

The point being that giving users the OPTION is what makes a Pro device... a Pro device.

Yeah, that's why it's getting PCIe expansion unlike the Studio. You guys do know that there are other PCIe cards that Pros use other than GPUs. Really then where is my choice of having RTX CUDA support in the 7,1? So the 7,1 is not a Pro device just because it doesn't support CUDA in macOS.

For the majority, yes but there is still a market for the 7,1 and there will be a market for the 8,1 because it's the ONLY AS Mac with internal PCIe expansion.

The Intel Mac Pro didn't need to obliterate out of the box, BECAUSE it supported 3rd party GPUS

Not ALL 3rd party GPUs in macOS. I know in Windows it did but at that point you are going a RTX card then get a PC workstation.

I don't why you are all hellbent on Apple providing GPU options, they won't. No need to get 'angry' about it, we can easily leave the Mac Pro ecosystem.

I don't mean to offend you guys I would also prefer Apple to support AMD GPUs in 8,1 but Apple is Apple.

The best GPUs are RTX cards but Apple does not support in macOS then why even get a Mac Pro if you want the best GPU and don't want macOS.

 

[prefuse07]

I don't why you are all hellbent on Apple providing GPU options, they won't. No need to get 'angry' about it, we can easily leave the Mac Pro ecosystem.

Dude, you need to stop, you don't know that for sure, and you keep talking like you just came from the donut.

Look at what Amethyst has provided to us thus far -- it began with his friend trying an AMD 6K series card and it not even working to now what appears to be apple working on drivers to get that same RX-6900XT to show up in system settings on that very same prototype device -- why would apple even waste their time on that if they weren't planning on supporting 3rd party GPUs?!?!?!?!

You need to stop, and just let the leaks come through. I'm sorry, but I'm seriously tired of reading your holier-than-thou posts, and about to put you on the block list, because some of the stuff you've been saying lately has been downright annoying at this point. Not to mention, you keep starting a million threads on the same subject.

You don't have any connects at apple? That's fine, then stop speculating like you know for sure that they won't support 3rd party GPUs, let the leakers, who have the actual connects, post their leaks, and let us continue to discuss, as that is what a forum is intended for.

You don't like this? Then go find a PC forum, where you can bash on it all you want. But the folks here want to continue to support a true Mac Pro, and that is why we so passionately hope that apple continues to support us as well.

 

[exoticSpice]

Dude, you need to stop, you don't know that for sure, and you keep talking like you just came from the donut.

Look at what Amethyst has provided to us thus far -- it began with his friend trying an AMD 6K series card and it not even working to now what appears to be apple working on drivers to get that same RX-6900XT to show up in system settings on that very same prototype device -- why would apple even waste their time on that if they weren't planning on supporting 3rd party GPUs?!?!?!?!

You need to stop, and just let the leaks come through. I'm sorry, but I'm seriously tired of reading your holier-than-thou posts, and about to put you on the block list, because some of the stuff you've been saying lately has been downright annoying at this point. Not to mention, you keep starting a million threads on the same subject.

You don't have any connects at apple? That's fine, then stop speculating like you know for sure that they won't support 3rd party GPUs, let the leakers, who have the actual connects, post their leaks, and let us continue to discuss, as that is what a forum is intended for.

You don't like this? Then go find a PC forum, where you can bash on it all you want. But the folks here want to continue to support a true Mac Pro, and that is why we so passionately hope that apple continues to support us as well.

Well answer me this where is the eGPU support of the AMD cards in M1/M2 MacBooks?

Thunderbolt is there but why hasn't Apple added AMD support on the current Macs when previous Intel Macbooks supported it?

Also you guys treat the Mac Studio as useless and a joke when there are people who also make a living from the Mac Studio.

Who's insulting who?


There also people in this forum that say the FCP is dead* and that Apple will kill it soon, I say bullocks. You guys are jaded but when I SAY something negative it's all MY fault.

*Some think Apple will kill FCP because the iPad does not have it... That's okay to say?
FCP living is MUCH more important to Mac users than third party GPU support but those people are free to say that huh?

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

Well answer me this where is the eGPU support of the AMD cards in M1/M2 MacBooks?

Thunderbolt is there but why hasn't Apple added AMD support on the current Macs when previous Intel Macbooks supported it?

Also you guys treat the Mac Studio as useless and a joke when there are people who also make a living from the Mac Studio.

Who's insulting who?


There also people in this forum that say the FCP is dead* and that Apple will kill it soon, I say bullocks. You guys are jaded but when I SAY something negative it's all MY fault.

*Some think Apple will kill FCP because the iPad does not have it... That's okay to say?
FCP living is MUCH more important to Mac users than third party GPU support but those people are free to say that huh?

So people making use of a MacBook Air for work and it's dismissed as useless to video 3d pros is insulting too? You've purposefully deleted the context, which is a pretty slanted stunt.

I bought a maxed out studio. It's a glorified trashcan Mac. Yes, useful for somethings, but not many others in the Mac Pro context. For some more context, apple literally went on an apology tour to try to make up for not noticing the difference soon enough. I await your apology tour (but not holding my breath).

 

[singhs.apps]

Guys. Chill.

Having an AMD card show up in the hardware specs of the test systems is a positive sign.


Hopefully Apple has the balls to offer their own discreet solution as an option too, which would signal they want to compete.

An Apple discreet will also make a nice eGPU for other Macs, perhaps even the 2019 Mac pros (and some crazy enthusiasts wanting to get them working under windows, but let’s cross that bridge if we ever get to it )

 

[exoticSpice]

So people making use of a MacBook Air for work and it's dismissed as useless to video 3d pros is insulting too?

Yes calling a product a joke/useless just because it does meet your demands is silly! Can I call the 7,1 a joke and useless because it does not meet my demands?

No because there are people out there that use a 7,1 and it meets their needs. Look I loved the Mac Pro until it lost CUDA support but I don't say something is DOA or useless just because it does not meet my needs.

I bought a maxed out studio. It's a glorified trashcan Mac. Yes, useful for somethings, but not many others in the Mac Pro context.

It has no PCIe slots for starters but for most people in Mac community the Studio is enough for a desktop.

For some more context, apple literally went on an apology tour to try to make up for not noticing the difference soon enough.

I want Apple to remember that apology tour and it will be clear sign if they did when the 8,1 launches.

I await your apology tour (but not holding my breath).

I do apologise if stepped out of line but I just don't seem to trust Apple after they dropped CUDA support in the Mac Pro. So forgive me if I was jaded and annoying.


You won't see any more posts from me till the Mac Pro launches. I also don't be annoying to your friend prefuse07
and when you tell prefuse07 I aplogised to the guy for being negative and being an annoyance. (Probably blocked me so).